Some A17 thoughts

[Roland]

Good point sir, and an excellent example, you're truly insightful, the 25% loot option is way more important than whatever crap I was going on about. I'm just selfish, I want to too much, and I should be far more concerned with how TFP wants me to test their product. And thank you sir, for correcting me, it makes me a better person. I will surely wait for the appropriate time to bring up my selfish desires you so skillfully lambasted during our discussions, because they don't really matter, and the game requires what I'm against. You've made me a better person.[/QUOTe]

 

Sarcastic mea culpa received.

 

Lulz exchanged.

[Guppycur]

Sarcastic mea culpa received.

 

Lulz exchanged.

 

He/she is funny as frack.

[SilverWolf]

That would be lovely. Skills in a survival game are quite unnecessary, much like the forest and stranded deep and pre alpha 13. Totally not needed, you make what you need, hence survival.

 

I won't argue with that, I've started with a5-a6 or something on my main acc and have over 9000hr, but I still prefer somewhat streamlined options in forms of skills, makes me want to try different playthrough and skill investment each time.

Don't get me wrong, I love the thrill of TLD, and honestly, I think I've skipped last 3-4 vanilla alphas, and played with mods, but I would still love to see expanded vanilla, not reworked for the X time..

[Guppycur]

I'd be fine with getting broken hats off the miners... Add some depth to crafting, ya know?

 

Got a hat it's either:

 

Totally trashed.

Needs a battery.

Needs a light bulb.

Both.

Works great.

 

Instead, I get:

 

Kill x zombies to buy the ability to make helmets, the parts of which are made of the same crap that everything else is made from, just differing amounts.

[leaderdog]

I'd be fine with getting broken hats off the miners... Add some depth to crafting, ya know?

 

Got a hat it's either:

 

Totally trashed.

Needs a battery.

Needs a light bulb.

Both.

Works great.

 

Instead, I get:

 

Kill x zombies to buy the ability to make helmets, the parts of which are made of the same crap that everything else is made from, just differing amounts.

 

Undead legacy added broken hats. You wouldn't get them all the time and you couldn't fix them, only scrap them for plastic at the time though. It would be cool if you could repair them, but if it's full of holes...

 

I guess maybe the speed holes could make you run faster.

[JoelleEmmily]

Sarcastic mea culpa received.

 

Lulz exchanged.

 

And a very nice seeding of I♥♥♥♥ Bifrons, but I reserve my lolz for when I decide which face is speaking. De Omnibus Dubitandum, sir.

 

--edit---

 

OHHHH.... Because is has the word for butt hole in it!

 

I a n u s B i f r o n s

[Roland]

And a very nice seeding of I♥♥♥♥ Bifrons, but I reserve my lolz for when I decide which face is speaking. De Omnibus Dubitandum, sir.

 

For myself, I’m always looking forward to the future and what this game will become. Things that I’ve liked have been cut but I don’t look behind. I take the new and play it for what it is and not for what it replaced. Every update is exciting and I have enjoyed several of the overhaul mods as well that take things in new and creative directions.

 

As for doubting everything...I’ve found that that philosophy just means I’m likely to suffer twice. Doesn’t mean I’m blind to the possibility that disappointment will come but I prefer to hope before the fact and I do truly hope that my face that looks into the future sees a robust options menu with sliders that alter how progression takes place.

 

In Pimps We Trust

[JoelleEmmily]

In Pimps We Trust

 

I'm an anarchist...

 

---edit---

 

And I should clarify, I am NOT a neo-anarchist...

[Guppycur]

Only speaking for myself here, and only in my single player game, but:

 

I've next to no need to travel anywhere anymore, find fighting zombies easy but tedious, don't bother with quests, never visit the trader, have no interest in vehicles, and find base building pointless.

 

I guess I will have to travel when I'm through using all of the vanilla poi's as horde bases, but by then I will have bought all of the perks and be able to one shot everybody anyway.

 

In a16, I was traveling a great deal, looking for parts to build my defenses, being excited about finding quality parts, having a real reason to kill zombies, and planning my activities based on horde nights.

 

Of course there were things wrong with a16, but I expected a17 to fix them and add content, not replace them with new problems, adding very little new content in some areas while taking away a great deal of content in other areas.

 

A17 is boring, once you get past the initial excitement of "oh hey look something new to play."

 

On my server game, where level gates have been removed, and people can now play how they want, a lot of those flaws still exist.

 

I have not yet found the magic sauce in modding to make a17 fun. Is it more moddable? In many ways yes, but many key things that used to work to mod, no longer do.

 

I'm very much looking forward to more a17 updates. I hope they add new content and not just balance changes.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

And I should clarify, I am NOT a neo-anarchist...

 

So in your world, there is a spoon?

[FileMachete]

And a very nice seeding of I♥♥♥♥ Bifrons, but I reserve my lolz for when I decide which face is speaking. De Omnibus Dubitandum, sir.

 

--edit---

 

OHHHH.... Because is has the word for butt hole in it!

 

I a n u s B i f r o n s

 

ha

 

but... did you just call Roland 'The Giant Doubter', or 'Large Thrower of Temper Tantrums'? 'Great Knower of Dubious Knowledge'?

 

me no speaky Latin...

[JoelleEmmily]

So in your world, there is a spoon?

 

No, it means in my world, we would have irradiated Morpheus and told Neo not to follow some jerk with a band of marry men and a vision.

[Poojam]

 

....

 

I have not yet found the magic sauce in modding to make a17 fun. Is it more moddable? In many ways yes, but many key things that used to work to mod, no longer do.

 

I'm very much looking forward to more a17 updates. I hope they add new content and not just balance changes.

 

I can't figure out a single thing that A17 offers that I desire. I think every single change they made to perks and attributes, skill gain, gun parts, item qualities, stamina, agility, looting, crafting, zombie ai, scavenging, POI dungeons, land claim block functionality, bedrock depth, economy, random gen, biome mixer, and mining has lessened my enjoyment. I think it might be easier to make a A16.5 with the new vehicles and quests, tweaks to the skills/balancing, rather than to fix A17. We already had all of these weapon mods in every modded server I played on.

[JoelleEmmily]

ha

 

but... did you just call Roland 'The Giant Doubter', or 'Large Thrower of Temper Tantrums'? 'Great Knower of Dubious Knowledge'?

 

me no speaky Latin...

 

 

Iavus - Is a god with two face whose true nature was obscured and forgotten when those deities fell out of practice. During those years, his dual faces was used to represent the nature of meaning or saying two things at once. Think the labyrinth door puzzle guards. Conversationally, and in it's original Latin, it could represent something which is more than it seems... I a n u s B i f r o n s specifically... is somewhat comparable to schrodinger's cat... it is a state of flux, a destiny which could have one of two outcomes. In references to a statement, calling a statement such, would imply the speaker is intending for the statement to be taken or mistaken a certain way, leaving the possibility open for the issuer to claim the opposite.

 

De Omnibus Dubitandum just means doubt everything.

 

---edit---

 

If I was to give a contemporary example of a I a n u s B i f r o n s statement, the most used would be, "I'm sorry you feel that way."

[FileMachete]

Iavus - Is a god with two face whose true nature was obscured and forgotten when those deities fell out of practice. During those years, his dual faces was used to represent the nature of meaning or saying two things at once. Think the labyrinth door puzzle guards. Conversationally, and in it's original Latin, it could represent something which is more than it seems... I a n u s B i f r o n s specifically... is somewhat comparable to schrodinger's cat... it is a state of flux, a destiny which could have one of two outcomes. In references to a statement, calling a statement such, would imply the speaker is intending for the statement to be taken or mistaken a certain way, leaving the possibility open for the issuer to claim the opposite.

 

De Omnibus Dubitandum just means doubt everything.

 

---edit---

 

If I was to give a contemporary example of a I a n u s B i f r o n s statement, the most used would be, "I'm sorry you feel that way."

 

Thanks Joelle, funny how it seems politicians have been with us since the caves...

 

"My dear Friend from the other Party..."

 

"We're from the Government. We're here to help."

 

"I solemnly swear..."

 

Edit: plus, I was teasing Roland a wee bit

[JoelleEmmily]

Thanks Joelle, funny how it seems politicians have been with us since the caves...

 

"My dear Friend from the other Party..."

 

"We're from the Government. We're here to help."

 

"I solemnly swear..."

 

Edit: plus, I was teasing Roland a wee bit

 

Oh, sorry, didn't pick up on that. But yeah... the iron hand in the velvet glove... the outstretched hand detracting from the dagger behind the back... the promise of a warm shower and a hot meal...

 

---edit---

 

Personally, the only way I see any system of government truly working, is if all politicians have to wear explosive collars, that if enough people vote for it, would pop their heads off like barbie doll's.

[FileMachete]

<snip>

Personally, the only way I see any system of government truly working, is if all politicians have to wear explosive collars, that if enough people vote for it, would pop their heads off like barbie doll's.

 

Ha!! :D lmao Now -that's- Funny! And I bet tourism to Washington would frickin -explode!- (pardon the pun)

[JoelleEmmily]

Ha!! :D lmao Now -that's- Funny! And I bet tourism to Washington would frickin -explode!- (pardon the pun)

 

Rollup, rollup, rollup, come one and all and see the mighty popping white heads! That's right ladies and gentlemen, exploding old white guys for your amusement. You like like caps? We got a bald guy in the 3rd row. Fake fur aflying? Toupee in isle 6. And yes ladies and gentlemen, making her debut, Leaking Linda, one of our rare female contestants, yes spectators and patrons, watch her bleed from both ends!

 

---edit---

 

Not that I'm savage or anything.

 

---edit---

 

What's that little girl? A bill that'll literally make their heads explode? coming right up!

 

"NOOOO! NOOOOOOO!!!! I JUST WANTED TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!!!" BLOOOOSHHHHPTHPTHPTHPTH

[Roland]

Guys...you’re keeping everything generic but this could easily slip into specifics which is why we don’t allow political talk even in jest so let’s end it with the previous post

[JoelleEmmily]

Guys...you’re keeping everything generic but this could easily slip into specifics which is why we don’t allow political talk even in jest so let’s end it with the previous post

 

So... can we go back to debating whether or not level gating in an inherently bad game mechanic... or is now still not the time? Because I have a really great joke involving something I call a rooster garrote.

[JoelleEmmily]

Moving on... and continuing from where I left off...

 

So...

 

 

 

Historically, point awarded level progression, as well as level gating, because they kinda go hand in hand, has been used to pad a game's play time. Take Final Fantasy 6 for example. Someone on the design team knew grinding for esper points would be tedious, and very not fun, so they placed a triangle shaped island up in the corner where you could easily one cast kill a creature for a load of points. The entire series even has a name for it, power peninsulas. Even Chrono Trigger had one. Not an RPG, and not used for power levelling, but Super Metroid had those bat pot things, you could stand there, and restore most of your health and bombs.

 

 

 

Why those three examples? Because they're beloved games that've stood the test of time. People still play them today, and someone on the dev team, thought the grind, or the scarcity, or whatever, was annoying enough to put in a trick for players to use. And they HAD TO, because carts couldn't be patched or modded. Now days, it seems like studios are externating their games flaws onto the consumer. "Don't like something? Mod it yourself." "Fixing that bug would be too much work, and cut into our profits. Let the community fix it."

 

 

 

Studios are apparently afraid to release a game with a short playthrough, or a rapid progression system, because they think the hours engaged by such trappings, are hours engaged... but they're not... they're hours the player is doing something they DO NOT enjoy, for the ability to do something they do.

[Roland]

Moving on... and continuing from where I left off...

 

So...

 

 

 

Historically, point awarded level progression, as well as level gating, because they kinda go hand in hand, has been used to pad a game's play time. Take Final Fantasy 6 for example. Someone on the design team knew grinding for esper points would be tedious, and very not fun, so they placed a triangle shaped island up in the corner where you could easily one cast kill a creature for a load of points. The entire series even has a name for it, power peninsulas. Even Chrono Trigger had one. Not an RPG, and not used for power levelling, but Super Metroid had those bat pot things, you could stand there, and restore most of your health and bombs.

 

 

 

Why those three examples? Because they're beloved games that've stood the test of time. People still play them today, and someone on the dev team, thought the grind, or the scarcity, or whatever, was annoying enough to put in a trick for players to use. And they HAD TO, because carts couldn't be patched or modded. Now days, it seems like studios are externating their games flaws onto the consumer. "Don't like something? Mod it yourself." "Fixing that bug would be too much work, and cut into our profits. Let the community fix it."

 

 

 

Studios are apparently afraid to release a game with a short playthrough, or a rapid progression system, because they think the hours engaged by such trappings, are hours engaged... but they're not... they're hours the player is doing something they DO NOT enjoy, for the ability to do something they do.

 

This assumes that those really were the reasons for the power peninsulas and rejuvenation pods. (Unless you have a source?) Also those sound like really console arcadey gimmicks to me.

 

This also assumes people don’t enjoy the early game where you are scraping by with trash gear and weak abilities. You don’t enjoy it. I do. We cancel each other out. Who else you got?

 

I don’t play for hours doing something I don’t enjoy. I enjoy the actual journey of progressing from weak to strong. I like playing for a time with no pack mule so that when I do purchase a rank I feel the difference.

[Guppycur]

Oh my God, lots of people don't like the version, lots of people do... Rather than spinning your wheels defensively arguing how great it is, spend that time determining if the "vocal minority" has a point...

 

...be the 13th man... This could literally be a make it or break it moment for the company going forward, don't squander it over pride...

[OnlyMeiya]

This assumes that those really were the reasons for the power peninsulas and rejuvenation pods. (Unless you have a source?) Also those sound like really console arcadey gimmicks to me.

 

This also assumes people don’t enjoy the early game where you are scraping by with trash gear and weak abilities. You don’t enjoy it. I do. We cancel each other out. Who else you got?

 

I don’t play for hours doing something I don’t enjoy. I enjoy the actual journey of progressing from weak to strong. I like playing for a time with no pack mule so that when I do purchase a rank I feel the difference.

 

Im fine scrapping and struggling but the tedious grinding on zed it what bores me to death.

 

The first hour of the game is usually spent with me grinding snowberry/yucca and feathers/rocks/wood in preparation because once I've crafted all the arrows im going to craft, I don't want to go back to that, I want to move forward with my game, not take steps back because zed take too many head shots to kill, and I land my head shots very consistently.

 

I cringe seeing a lumberjack, fat granny, bloated zed, fat Hawaiian zed ect, because I know they're going to sponge up a ridiculous amount of arrows, and wooden spikes are too weak to really be feasible, Sometimes I just run from them, but they are everywhere and I have to kill them at some point especially if I want to loot a building.

 

Hell, it takes more than 1 shot from a .762 caliber hunting rifle even if its a headshot, that shouldn't be possible, nor should zed be walking around with 7 arrows sticking out of their head while still chasing me at a snails pace.

 

It feels like it will always take my 3-4 headshots on normal zed and 7-10 on the meatier ones.

 

When I think of progressivly getting stronger and beter, I think of "Im starting to take 2 arrows to headshot which means eventually it can be down to 1, which means that the ones that took 7-10 may now take 4-6 and so on.

 

Better/stronger bows and arrows should accomplish that, yet it doesn't, So I have to *Sigh* Grind more fking arrows.

 

 

 

In A16.4 I had just that, I had a noticeable slow progressive change that showed my character was getting stronger, which meant doing less of the tedious grinding, and more of the fun exploration.

 

You'd start to harvest more materials, you'd require less arrows to kill on headshot, That should have stayed because it was a passive increase, where as right now I am forced to spend points on something I won't use late game which means I don't want to spend points on it at all.

 

 

 

 

 

Also Roland, not many people want to play like a damn masochist. lol

[JoelleEmmily]

This assumes that those really were the reasons for the power peninsulas and rejuvenation pods. (Unless you have a source?) Also those sound like really console arcadey gimmicks to me.

 

This also assumes people don’t enjoy the early game where you are scraping by with trash gear and weak abilities. You don’t enjoy it. I do. We cancel each other out. Who else you got?

 

I don’t play for hours doing something I don’t enjoy. I enjoy the actual journey of progressing from weak to strong. I like playing for a time with no pack mule so that when I do purchase a rank I feel the difference.

 

Oh my great giddy god, you don't give up on the empty rhetoric do you... You asked for it...

 

Do you know what FF6 would be without random encounters? The same game.

 

 

Terra, wakes up: Where am I, I don't know I am.

Locke: You're in my bed, and I'm a thief, is that cool?

Terra: I donno, maybe?

Locke: It's not safe here, supposedly, lets go to my friends house. He's a prince.

Terra: Okay I guess...

 

 

Walk walk walk walk

 

 

Locke: OH NO! SCRIPTED ENCOUNTER!!

 

 

Drurururur do do do do, do-do do-do da da da, da da da, NU! NU! NU!

 

 

Terra: Yay! We won!

 

 

Nuh nuh nuh-nuh nuh nuh-nuh!

 

 

Walk walk walk walk

 

 

Locke: Did I mention my friend was a prince?

Terra: Yeah?

 

 

Walk walk walk walk

 

 

Locke: OH NO! A CAMP! WITH THAT CRAZY KEFKA DUDE!

Kafaka: Wuhuhuhuhu something crazy.

Locke: We have to sneak by.

Terra: Okay...

 

 

Drurururur do do do do,

 

 

Locke: OH NO! SCRIPTED MAGITECH ARMOUR ENCOUNTER!

 

 

Shhhhhhhhthewwwwwww swing

 

 

Locke: Oh the pain, I've been hit.

Terra, uwwwwwwwww thpuff.

Locke: OH MY GOD! YOU CAN USE MAGIC!

Terra: I guess?

Locke: Let's go tell Edger... or whatever his name was

 

 

Walk walk

 

 

Edger: I'm a prince. Want to see my bedroom?

Terra: Not really?

Edger... maybe: Okay, maybe later. Kafka, you can't hurt us. SUBMERGE!

 

 

shhhhhhhhhhhh travel travel travel travel

 

 

Edger: We should go to that town for whatever reason.

Everyone else: Okay lets go!

 

 

Walk walk walk walk.

 

 

Someone: So what it like wearing a slave crown?

Terra: Enslaving...

Someone: That cool...

 

 

OH NO! SCRIPTED TUNNEL DIGGING ATTACK!

 

 

The other prince... the meathead: WHAT!? She can use magic??

Locke: Yeah, you didn't know?

 

 

Walk walk walk walk

 

 

Locke: Look over there, it's a mysterious man in black.

Shadow... or that might've been his dog's name: Yes, I am a mysterious man in back... and I have a dog that might be named shadow.

Locke: Wanna join us? We beat up bad guys.

Shadow: Sure.

 

 

walk walk walk

 

 

Locke: You're that general jerk.

What's her name: Yeah, but they beat me up, so you can totally trust me.

 

 

Walk walk walk, looooooooots more stuff

 

 

SCREECH!!!! FLIES AWAY.

 

 

Locke: Crap, no we have to go to Zozo.

 

 

walk walk walk

 

 

What's her name: Oh my hero, so far away now, will I ever see your smile...

 

 

STUPID SQUID ATTACK! I THINK! AT THIS POINT

 

 

Edger: We defeated him... man was he a jerk.

 

 

walk walk walk

 

 

Zozo dude: We're creepy.

 

 

walk walk walk, do stuff

 

 

Terra: I'm all batter now

 

 

LITERALLY HOURS LATER WITHOUT RANDOM ENCOUNTERS!!!

 

 

Utoro... or whatever that squids name is... painter girl... old man... backstory backstory backstory.. router base... stuff stuff stuff... floating island...

 

 

Kefka: RUN RUN RUN OR YOU'LL BE WELL DONE.

Emperor short sighted: But no one will be left to rule over...

Kefka: I'LL BE EMPEROR OF NOTHING

 

 

beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwshhhhhhhhhh death destruction... the world reshaping... more stuff... change of music.

 

 

Celese?: Oh no Sids sick...

 

 

Player: OH MY GOD! IT'S ONLY HALF OVER!!!

 

Roland: But without the random encounters, what would be the point in the game.

 

Me: Pat pat, pat pat. Here's a cookie, you should rest.

[Rager]

Oh my God, lots of people don't like the version, lots of people do... Rather than spinning your wheels defensively arguing how great it is, spend that time determining if the "vocal minority" has a point...

 

...be the 13th man... This could literally be a make it or break it moment for the company going forward, don't squander it over pride...

 

 

You will never make everyone happy. I did not enjoy the older versions and did not play as much as I do with this version. Is it perfect? Nah, but I understand people don't like it. I don't try to change people minds about it. We all like what we like.

 

 

Would it suck for me if it changed back? Ya, but I am not going to blame players or be upset if it did. My point is that, I feel gaming companies should disagree at times with players and it is ok to do it without being too worried.

 

 

If people don't like this version, update it until they do. If they always miss the older version and you don't want to go back to it. Nothing you can do about it, because changing it back people would be upset also.

 

 

 

We are still in the alpha stages of the game and moving forward I am sure things will get tweaked. I am sure the devs are understanding the points of the flaws of a17 and will tweak it. I just see people want the old system back, and i don't think that is good feedback moving forward as how can we get this system to work for you better.