Some A17 thoughts

[Rager]

Honestly they worked very well before, why break what wasn't broken.

 

 

It could be they have more plans for it in the future. That this is all they did with it for right now, and what they want to do later on will be much better?

 

*shrugs*

[Roland]

Honestly, I am shocked that this is how it is. Devs reject any discussions on the claim topic. They only give throw away explanations, aka "claims are difficult topic", or "we just didnt want people to claim cities".

 

And then ignore all the rest of the conversation. How can you have a discussion without back and forth? Should we just create 100 claim topics, and talk with devs in titles of said topics? There was Zero valid explanations why we can't have multiple claim blocks. The only one explanation I saw is 1 post of gazz talking about claiming cities and him not liking ppl building big.

 

Gazz then ignored the rest of the conversation giving away dozens of good solutions, that would save cities and wouldnt destroy builder community in the game.

 

How can we talk?

 

You can scream into darkness only so much, before you lose hope. And most of my friends Did lose hope.

 

You create more threads and keep talking about it just like was done with level gates. Whats hard to understand? This game is his baby and he isn’t going to be instantly open to someone else telling him how to raise his baby. But he often comes around when a hot topic gains traction and especially if he is leaning in the same direction. You can complain about why he doesn’t listen as well as he could or you can get to posting compelling arguments that don’t include talking about how stupid and idiotic the change was. Talk about how it hurts gameplay for builders—especially on nonPVP servers where people want to build multiple structures to showcase but must leave them unprotected to griefers.

[Guppycur]

@exx

 

Using your bow example, for uh, example...

 

Yeh, it makes total sense that a bow you JUST crafted out of random ingredients you found on the ground sucks and should take many arrows to fell a zombie... But what /doesn't/ make sense is that SAME BOW suddenly delivers accurate death blows because you bought some points...

 

...making a better bow would.

 

...finding a better bow would.

 

But magic points likely gained by bashing zombies with a club?

 

It's weird, and a great example of how an item quality system is /better/.

 

Right now I make one bow, one club, and one stone axe. The entire game.

 

Because there is no reasonable incentive to make or find more.

 

Mods? Can't even use them for so long, that they're a joke.

 

So how about instead:

 

Two tiered item system, "crafted" and "found".

 

Crafted will get you q1 and q2, found will get you q4 and q5.

 

Note q3 is missing... You need a gap between the two large enough to make it a meaningful find.

 

Q6? That's your modded items.

 

Just an example of how a meaningful quality system can be balanced.

[Exxodous]

I don't know why, but the encumbrance hasn't effect me all that much, though I tend to loot very little, and the stamina and what have you, not really a factor... I guess I'm used to games who penalize you heavily for that kind of stuff. And I find combat super easy... I always thought I was really bad at first person shooters... maybe I'm not so bad?

 

The Zombies magically knowing what blocks to go for is kinda annoying... and the fact that they avoid spikes and stuff... But I have an idea about that...

 

In the african forest, herders coral their sheep/goats into thorn bushes/fences in order to protect them from cheetahs... if the zeds avoid them... maybe they can by used as a repellent of sorts... or maybe they could be used to channel them away from areas... I donno...

 

What do you all think?

 

Not sure why you quoted me in your post....Maybe we've just become that chummy

 

On topic to your post. I agree, encumbrance didn't affect me much either, I just ran slower lol, however I always want more space so I installed a modlet. Didn't complain, rant or rave. Just fixed my "perceived" problem and moved on.

 

I too find combat pretty easy, but at the same time more reliable than in 16 which is why it probably seems easier to me.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I’m betting myself a hundred bux that my next thought is that I’ve found Kubikus’ sister....

 

Now that is FUNNY!

[Guppycur]

Oh, and don't do something as retarded as making it harder to use high quality items early game just for the sake of "slowing progression".

 

If I find a goddang purple shovel on day 1, so fracking be it.

[Roland]

It could be they have more plans for it in the future. That this is all they did with it for right now, and what they want to do later on will be much better?

 

*shrugs*

 

If that’s true they are playing it very close to the vest. I haven’t heard anything and trust me if I had I would’ve said as much to help alleviate the anger backnwhen the patch notes released and it became one of the first hot topics. Even if I couldn’t reveal the exact plans I would’ve said they’ve got something planned.

[JoelleEmmily]

I’m betting myself a hundred bux that my next thought is that I’ve found Kubikus’ sister....

 

If he couldn’t get a rise out of me with his debate style you have no prayer.

 

Since you’re out, why not play a bit of FF6 for old time’s sake and blow off some steam.

 

Not trying to get a rise out of you dude... just saying I no longer care about what you have to say... You are non-viable.

 

But Final Fantasy 6 is a good idea. But I have to test my prickle bush hypothesis first.

[Exxodous]

@exx

 

Using your bow example, for uh, example...

 

Yeh, it makes total sense that a bow you JUST crafted out of random ingredients you found on the ground sucks and should take many arrows to fell a zombie... But what /doesn't/ make sense is that SAME BOW suddenly delivers accurate death blows because you bought some points...

 

...making a better bow would.

 

...finding a better bow would.

 

But magic points likely gained by bashing zombies with a club?

 

It's weird, and a great example of how an item quality system is /better/.

 

Right now I make one bow, one club, and one stone axe. The entire game.

 

Because there is no reasonable incentive to make or find more.

 

Mods? Can't even use them for so long, that they're a joke.

 

So how about instead:

 

Two tiered item system, "crafted" and "found".

 

Crafted will get you q1 and q2, found will get you q4 and q5.

 

Note q3 is missing... You need a gap between the two large enough to make it a meaningful find.

 

Q6? That's your modded items.

 

Just an example of how a meaningful quality system can be balanced.

 

@Guppy

 

I totally agree with most of what your saying. I would prefer a system more along those line. Or one that penalizes you for repairing in some way. The old system stunk IMO btw, but one q6 bow does in fact mean "end game" for that item. So some system that forces you to find a new or create a new q6 bow would be "better"

 

That still doesn't change the fact it is difficult to balance any system for the "far left" and the "far right" (disclaimer: Not a political statement, just the only way I could describe the difference) Those who want the best weapon, all the time would not like a system like that.

[Sergoros]

You create more threads and keep talking about it just like was done with level gates. Whats hard to understand? This game is his baby and he isn’t going to be instantly open to someone else telling him how to raise his baby. But he often comes around when a hot topic gains traction and especially if he is leaning in the same direction. You can complain about why he doesn’t listen as well as he could or you can get to posting compelling arguments that don’t include talking about how stupid and idiotic the change was. Talk about how it hurts gameplay for builders—especially on nonPVP servers where people want to build multiple structures to showcase but must leave them unprotected to griefers.

 

You do realise, that this is Very obstinate? We basically have to treat him with kid gloves and just pray to gods, that he reads our topics. Sure, I can send you an army of obstinate children here on this forum. They would whine and scream how they want claim blocks fixed. This is how this game development actually Works? Seriously?

 

There were plenty of polite and rational suggestions for Gazz. But now I am not even sure if he read them. If this is just the question of him being obstinate...man...this is depressing...

[Exxodous]

Oh, and don't do something as retarded as making it harder to use high quality items early game just for the sake of "slowing progression".

 

If I find a goddang purple shovel on day 1, so fracking be it.

 

Didn't like this mechanic in A16 either....

[Guppycur]

@exx

 

No doubt, you can't please everyone... But I'm only here for me, so... Everyone else?

 

Fuggem.

 

Boil it down, it's the same for all of us.

[Thorne]

You do realise, that this is Very obstinate? We basically have to treat him with kid gloves and just pray to gods, that he reads our topics. Sure, I can send you an army of obstinate children here on this forum. They would whine and scream how they want claim blocks fixed. This is how this game development actually Works? Seriously?

 

There were plenty of polite and rational suggestions for Gazz. But now I am not even sure if he read them. If this is just the question of him being obstinate...man...this is depressing...

With ya 100% Sergoros. I was FLOORED when the LCB was cut back to 1. One of my more optimistic suspicions was that it was a combination of not knowing the value of multiple LCB's to their online player base (which is bad), and running into a problem coding it in the new Unity Engine. This was reinforced by something Madmole said in a reply recently. I believe that if they knew how important it was, that they would have postponed A17 to get it working. Depressing is a good word.

[Poojam]

I hereby acknowledge that lots of people hate it. Duh.

 

I even know what they hate:

 

1 LCB

Stamina and hunger drain

Level gates

The grind of the early game

Locked FOV

Not enough passive xp gains

Digging zombies

Broken RWG

AI that focuses on the one weak spot

Easily cheesed pathing

Inability to do large building projects from Day 1

Removal of learning by doing

Practically no zombie loot

Too much xp focused on killing zombies

Too many dungeon POIs

 

At least someone has been paying attention for the last 6 weeks.

[Rager]

At least someone has been paying attention for the last 6 weeks.

 

 

Ya, but I like 70 percent of the things listed Q_Q

[OzHawkeye]

Ya, but I like 70 percent of the things listed Q_Q

 

And I like about 30% of it, and, here's the rub for TFP, my 30% likely doesn't exactly overlap with your 70%.

 

Indeed, some people complaining, need to remember that modding really is the answer for some of their complaints, that TFP is building a base game for a mass audience and that individual preferences will often require individual modding (which hopefully, TFP will allow to the maximum extent possible).

 

In fact, I think there's only about 3 entries there that can't be modded out.

[Sergoros]

And I like about 30% of it, and, here's the rub for TFP, my 30% likely doesn't exactly overlap with your 70%.

 

Indeed, some people complaining, need to remember that modding really is the answer for some of their complaints, that TFP is building a base game for a mass audience and that individual preferences will often require individual modding (which hopefully, TFP will allow to the maximum extent possible).

 

In fact, I think there's only about 3 entries there that can't be modded out.

 

Ill say 6 for sure. Maybe more. And few others that werent mentioned. Like some people are complaining about strafing change.

[Rager]

And I like about 30% of it, and, here's the rub for TFP, my 30% likely doesn't exactly overlap with your 70%.

 

Indeed, some people complaining, need to remember that modding really is the answer for some of their complaints, that TFP is building a base game for a mass audience and that individual preferences will often require individual modding (which hopefully, TFP will allow to the maximum extent possible).

 

In fact, I think there's only about 3 entries there that can't be modded out.

 

Yup, the things I don't like is

 

Broken RWG

AI that focuses on the one weak spot

Easily cheesed pathing

LCB

[OzHawkeye]

Ill say 6.

 

Care to name which 6 you think can't be modded? I checked again, and I think 3 is about it.

[Roland]

Well tomorrow I’ll discuss the LCB thing with Joel wearing my kid gloves.

 

See how viable I am. Lol.

[Sergoros]

Care to name which 6 you think can't be modded? I checked again, and I think 3 is about it.

 

1)Claims,

2)digging zeds,

3)Ai focus,

4)pathing, (I counted them as 2, but you could argue that they are 1 problem in essense.)

5)Learning by doing.

6)Broken rwg. (I assumed that people who want to add plains now can't, so thats kinda unmodable now)

[Roland]

You do realise, that this is Very obstinate? We basically have to treat him with kid gloves and just pray to gods, that he reads our topics. Sure, I can send you an army of obstinate children here on this forum. They would whine and scream how they want claim blocks fixed. This is how this game development actually Works? Seriously?

 

There were plenty of polite and rational suggestions for Gazz. But now I am not even sure if he read them. If this is just the question of him being obstinate...man...this is depressing...

 

Haven’t dealt with many artists?

 

Get over your judgement of it and try and see it from his perspective. It’s his baby. His creation. It is going to take a lot of convincing to overcome the natural inclination that he knows best in regards to his art.

 

If it is important to you then do what works and convince him in a way that puts his game in a better light.

 

Joel really isn’t obstinate so much that he naturally believes he knows best for his own creation. But he has come around before because he is not purely obstinate.

[FileMachete]

I hereby acknowledge that lots of people hate it. Duh.

 

I even know what they hate:

 

1 LCB

Stamina and hunger drain

Level gates

The grind of the early game

Locked FOV

Not enough passive xp gains

Digging zombies

Broken RWG

AI that focuses on the one weak spot

Easily cheesed pathing

Inability to do large building projects from Day 1

Removal of learning by doing

Practically no zombie loot

Too much xp focused on killing zombies

Too many dungeon POIs

 

^^^ Roland, this is a really important post.

 

I know it seems silly, but this is like couples counseling. It always starts w basic communication skills. 'Listening', 'Acknowledging', 'I vs You'.

 

This simple post is _acknowledging_ literally hundreds of peoples posts.

 

Your following post where you inform us as to the state of the issues is also fantastic. It goes from Listening through Acknowledging to actively 'participating' (or 'engaging'? something like that, I never could keep interested long enough in those sessions..)

 

So now I/We know we've been heard, that it's been considered, and where I/We stand on getting our way w You (heh heh).

 

(glancing at watch...) Amazing progress, excellent work, very nice. Next week at 2?

---

Seriously though, this & it's sib really do help & have me feeling more upbeat.

And I know you do this throughout all the threads/ex-builds/etc. these two just somehow feel different..

[Roland]

1)Claims,

2)digging zeds,

3)Ai focus,

4)pathing, (I counted them as 2, but you could argue that they are 1 problem in essense.)

5)Learning by doing.

6)Broken rwg. (I assumed that people who want to add plains now can't, so thats kinda unmodable now)

 

AI focus, pathing, and RWG are all undergoing changes. You wouldn’t want to waste time modding those things if it were possible until they call A17.x done and moved on to A18

[OzHawkeye]

1)Claims,

2)digging zeds,

3)Ai focus,

4)pathing, (I counted them as 2, but you could argue that they are 1 problem in essense.)

5)Learning by doing.

6)Broken rwg. (I assumed that people who want to add plains now can't, so thats kinda unmodable now)

 

Fair 'enuff. If you count the lack of biomes, I guess #6 works.

 

So, I stand corrected.

[Sergoros]

Well tomorrow I’ll discuss the LCB thing with Joel wearing my kid gloves.

 

See how viable I am. Lol.

 

Might want to pick up some talking points from this thread, if you want. Like admins already having server manager to deal with looking for claim blocks and stuff like that. If this is our 1 in a 1000 change to get claim blocks back, you should prepare!