Vaeliorin

Be able to make a level 1 iron spear on day 1 isn't really faster progression. I usually could make tier 5 iron tools on day 2 or 3 in A20.

I still wish we could connect dew collectors together and have a central collection point. Having to loot a bunch of them every day seems like it's going to get annoying pretty fast.

Wizardry 7 & 8. In those games you couldn't get points by doing without there being some risk of failure (like @%$#ing off the NPC you were repeatedly charming if you failed, or setting off the trap you were repeatedly almost disabling.) And you also got a handful of points every level up to distribute how you wished. As an aside, I'd always hated Elder Scrolls-esque LBD until I played 7D2D (I started with 16.4, so no spamming weapons to level up crafting ability.) I never felt the need to grind, I just got better in the things I did all the time, and it was plenty to let me do whatever I wanted to do. My weapon skills were usually terrible, but spikes and the like were more resilient back then, so you could handle horde nights with low weapon skills even if you didn't have electric traps yet. Aye I suppose I hadn't thought about the points I wouldn't be putting into Sex Rex. I guess I'll just dump those in clubs. Thanks! As for it being sub optimal, I've never had a problem using weapons I'm not statted for. I realize it's not the most optimal, but it's always been functional for me (Back in A16 I used to have maxed out stats in things like athletics and mining, but all my weapon skills would be below 20 😀 ).

No, I was making a joke. What with the people complaining about being insulted and what not lately. Sure, but I still have to use weapons (and I primarily use melee weapons outside of horde night.) So I'm going to have to spec into a weapon to get the stamina reduction with it, whereas in A20, I'd get the stamina reduction for everything by speccing into Sex Rex. It also means I'm almost certainly going to only play clubs most of the time, since I hate sledgehammers (I've always hated slow swinging weapons in basically every game) and I don't want to have to branch out into another stat for a weapon unless I want something else from that tree.

Well, that first part might have been a bit facetious. Probably should have added a smiley or something. Anyway, I wasn't saying item degrading was inherently bad. I was just pointing out that it's not necessarily a popular, well-liked feature. It was one of the major complaints people had about Breath of the Wild as well, as I recall. But like I said, I don't necessarily hate it. I didn't mind the way it worked in A16. It was a bit pointless for things you could craft (because you could easily get your items back into tip top shape.) If it completely destroyed items, though, I would very much not like that.

Am I allowed to point out that for a long time (don't know if it's true anymore) the most downloaded Minecraft mod was Tinker's Construct, which adds tools that don't permanently break and are fairly easily repairable? Anyway, given that I usually end up repairing my tools 3-4 times a night when I'm mining (because they break), the idea of item degradation doesn't particularly appeal to me. That said, I'd be cool with weapons degrading. But don't take my tools. Admittedly, I apparently play the game differently than just about everyone else (I conceptually hate the stamina changes in A21 because I normally don't spec into weapons until late game, so the stamina buffs being tied to weapons is awful for me.)

Of course, the whole "craft a million axes" thing was gone in 16.4 (possibly earlier, but I started with 16.4). I really don't know why everyone brings it up when talking about LBD.

Definitely. The combat is fine, but the water was maddening.

Sure, but it got rid of gore blocks building up, allowing zombies to overtop your walls, which was a neat mechanic. I mean, yeah, you could destroy them, but if you weren't attentive you could easily end up with zombies in your base.

Obviously, the solution to this is to license a clip from Lonely Island's "Threw It On The Ground" and have that play every time you drink from a jar. I think it would be okay if you could pipe dew collectors together and collect from a single source, but harvesting from dozens of dew collectors every day is going to get tedious really quick (I go through a lot of water and play on 2 hour days, so I'll need a lot of dew collectors, since they're based on days not time, unless that's been changed.)

I was immersed my first 7 days. After almost 2000 hours, immersion isn't really a thing any more.

Truth be told, I pretty much always have the creative menu enabled. I've only used it once or twice (there was a CompoPack POI I like and wanted to live in, but it had an unavoidable booby trap that would blow up a bunch of blocks, so I used creative to repair it, which was mostly for aesthetic reasons), but I'm 95% of the time playing modded, and it's just a habit from years of playing modded Minecraft to have "cheats" enabled to fix things when they inevitably break. Strangely, things almost never break in 7 Days unless they're broken from the beginning, or I do something silly like try to remove a mod. That said, if I tried to use a wooden base for Day 7, I'd be in real trouble, because my Day 7 hordes generally include cops. I generally don't get (self-produced) concrete until Day 14, though, and non-critical parts of my base may not get upgraded just because of time. Some of the mods I use generally necessitate concrete by Day 14, because lots of zombies that will tear though cobble like tissue paper kinda requires concrete. But yes, I quite often make massive bases (my biggest one was slightly bigger than the max sized 71 X 71 claim area) so I go through lots of materials (I had one playthrough back in A17, iirc, where I had over 2 million clay stuck in boxes because I'd gotten so much mining sand in the desert.) The fact that I hate the auger (it's too easy to accidentally hit a block, and you can't repair ores...yes, I have issues) generally increases the time it takes for me to mine things too. That said, I don't need the "best" tools (like I said, I almost never use the auger, and I have no problems with lower level wrenches, etc.), I just want tools that don't make me feel like I'm wasting my time trying to mine. Perhaps if there was a stone-tier pickaxe (or the scrap tier that's fairly common in mods was available in the vanilla game or a standalone mod, which it doesn't seem to be any longer) I wouldn't have such issues with tool (and workbench, to be fair. In A20 I usually have one workbench that's just permanently making cobble) availability. I have no problem modding, so there's likely to be mods to fix any of my expected A21 issues relatively quickly (I've only done some super basic mods of my own.) I'm just a bit sad to see the vanilla game seemingly moving further and further away from what I'd thought for years it was intended to be.

To be fair, when I bought it (after watching the game for several years) it was a sandbox. And I don't necessarily mind the progressive nature of the game for weapons/armor, but if you've ever spent several hours mining with stone tools (or even low level iron) you'd know how frustrating and unproductive it is. I know most people won't spend multiple hours mining in the first week (heck, from watching youtubers it seems like I do more mining in the first week then they'll do in a 100+ day playthrough) but it's been the way I've played for years, and it's basically going away now. Like I said, I usually have 30k+ cobblestone by day 7, and spend the night of day 5, all of day 6, and most of day 7 building (sometimes not even finishing what I was building before horde night starts, and I always play on 2 hour days) so I know I'm not exactly a typical player. But it was the building/tower defense aspect that brought me to the game, and that's what I enjoy, so that's what I do. The fact that the devs seem to want to minimize/disincentivize that style of play is their prerogative, and I've certainly gotten more than my share of enjoyment out of a game I got for $7, but I can't help but feel a bit sad/disappointed that they've decided to go in a way that severely hampers my enjoyment of the game.

Yeah, I guess I hadn't even considered that. I usually perk into those right from the beginning, though I don't usually rush cement before Day 7. But if it's going to take me in game weeks to get access to those things, that would be absolutely awful. I tend to use at least hundreds of thousands (often millions) of concrete to build my base, and not being able to do that until much later in game would be absolutely terrible. 8-10 forges and at least 4 cement mixers are my standard, though I often end up using mods for more advanced mixers, because I can go through concrete incredibly fast.

Yeah, I'm just saying that I'm not going to spend much time mining with a stone axe or low level iron tools. It's way too slow and unproductive. As a fellow base builder, I'm never going to have the amount of resources I'd like early game (I want a minimum of 30k cobble by Day 7) without quick access to quality iron tools (and repair kits.)

Yeah, if I don't have max craftable iron tools by Day 2 or Day 3, that's really freaking annoying. I spend most of my nights (and a lot of my days) mining, and not having decent tools to do it with sucks, a lot. I do not look forward to having the early game dragged out even further.

Sure. If you somehow made a wrench (which also requires forged iron iirc) you could theoretically wrench something that gives forged iron (assuming you have any POIs to find something to wrench), but I don't know how you'd ever make a wrench. But yeah, as it is, a crafting only playthrough seems like it wouldn't be possible. Personally, I don't really see how changing the recipe from forged iron to scrap iron would be a big deal (I mean, honestly, in a normal game does anyone craft pipes?) so I'd be in support of it.

Can't you make pipes from forged iron? Not that you could get it easily without something to loot/wrench, but I think there is a non-forge way to get them. Granted, that may have been added by a mod. I don't know that I've ever made pipes, I end up with hundreds of them.

Yeah, there was even a thread about the hitboxes a while ago with video evidence, but I can't be bothered to try and find it. That's the only problem I've had with bows, is when arrows mysteriously pass through the zombies without actually hitting.

I've never played Navezgane, but from what I've heard there are no working workstations there either. They were intentionally removed for some reason. It's not a big deal to me (I always use to forget to mark working workstations, and could never find them again), but it does seem like a somewhat pointless change.

There are no working workstations anywhere in A20.

Spear, Archery and Needle and Thread are all easily able to be completed in the first day or two if you focus on looting newspaper boxes/mailboxes. I always felt this was done on purpose in order to get people to make more use of bows and spears, since everyone seems to just rush to firearms.

Ah. It was just because that would be the only way to get anything (no pois, nothing lootables, no traders) so you'd need a higher drop rate (I'd think) to be able to get things like mechanical/electric parts, and other things that aren't craftable.

Actually, for me it would be all about building, since that's what I mostly like doing. I often consider turning off zombies outside of horde night, because I just don't find them particularly interesting.

I gotta admit, I'd been tempted to try and make a mod where there were no poi's, no lootable items around, but zombies would have a relatively high chance to drop loot bags (I'd have to test and balance it), those loot bags would be able to contain any item, and it would be meant to be played with a very frequent blood moon (probably every night, or maybe every 2 nights.)