pApA^LeGBa

The workbench has no tier. The crafting skill has tiers. And at tier 2 of your crafting skill you unlock the workbench. A bit confused about your PC. 1650 super is a graphics card. GTX1080 is also a graphics card. I play with a I7-13700K, 32GB Ram DDR5, RX6600XT and i can use the ultra preset with stable 60FPS on 1080p (limited the FPS as my display is 60Hz) Hordenights with 48 Z´s are around 45-50 FPS.

Wich would simply lead to people using landclaims at the POI´s they are going to loot. You can have 3 active landclaims at once now. On a dedicated server you can even have as much as you want. So i don´t think that´s going to happen. What hopefully happens, is that sleepers spawning in behind me after i entered a room is going to be fixed.

In SP and only if you like to be all your playtroughs the same loop of going looting all the time to keep up with your gamestage. Seriously flawed for MP Coop if you have players who don´t like the going looting part of the game. It forces a playstyle and everything that forces a playstlye is bad by default tbh. @Riamus You can spawn in a new trader easily, just activate debug mode and then press F6. Don´t forget to set it to static spawn or the trader will dissappear if you log out.

@mprojekt Well the late to the party kind of ambush is new to me tbh, they always did jump on top of you since sleepers are a thing, but that late that your are actually past them is new to A21. The super ears from outside should be fixed according to the patch notes, but that doesn´t seem to work very well. Guess we need to do a bug report.

Wait until higher tier POI´s and sleepers in the weirdest place only falling down/coming out once you are past them and you have them in your back (cheap af mechanic tbh). Stealth is useless then. Like absolutly useless. Those hidden zombies can only be activated by crossing their sleeper volume/timer or however it works now, unless you know all their positions in all POI´s and break open the wall/ceiling they are behind. You can´t touch them with a bow/xbow and hidden strike otherwise. This basically happens in all T4/T5 POI´s and a lot in T3 also. Oh and they sometimes even open doors now. Or you do by passing an invisible line...

After playing a while in MP Coop now we realized the changes with the skill magazines are horrible for our group. We have 3 who go out looting, no issues here, we get enough magazines and parts for our skills. But we also have 2 people who don´t enjoy going out at all and we don´t get a lot of magazines for them, it´s even more of a problem with the parts. They do the mining, crafting, farming, cooking and the very extensive building and they are far behind in progression (so much for TFP and the mods constantly saying this won´t be a problem when people where critizing exactly that problem months ago already) So, is there any chance we get a mod for a skillsystem like in DF for vanilla?

You just have to defend no matter how valid a point is, right? Having to get personal sounds like desperation tbh. Who plays games like that? No one. If people play a game more than a few hours they at least take a look at all that it has to offer and THEN maybe deceide to replay what they like most. 99% of the people who didn´t make it to gamestage 50, tried the game and never touched it again. And don´t forget the 500 zombies achievement. Even if you play only the early game over and over again, you will have killed 500 zombies at one point.

Without even playing further once? How would they know that this part is the most interesting for them if they haven´t even seen a T5 POI from inside or experienced a demolisher on horde night. I mean you try to tell us here that they know everything about the game, otherwise they wouldn´t know what´s most interesting for them, without playing it properly. That´s the most riddiculous example of sugarcoating i have ever seen tbh.

Why would i go on a T6 quest for a T3 reward. Especially in MP Coop, as there isn´t instanced loot in this game, this makes no sense at all. Traders? Don´t use them. Might be a bit of a problem in MP due to the waterfilters, but in SP you can play fine without a dew collector.

I had that happen too. Turns out it was zombies on a drop ceiling that only trigger once you are past them, but i took another route. That mechanic is so stupid. I can even blow up a grenade right beyond them and they won´t wake up.

The bad thing about this system is, that builders/miners/crafters who could perfectly have a lot of fun with doing no looting at all, are now forced to go out looting, something they don´t like to do. The people going out looting bringing back magazines isn´t enough to keep up and you also get no parts for those skills. It sucks bigtime that you have no choice anymore regarding your playstyle. In SP i usually did several playtroughs, with either very less looting, no quests, no trader and some with heavy looting and quests plus all what´s inbetween. Hoping for mods soon. I still don´t get why they wanna force a playstyle so hard. This reduces replayability a lot. Not gonna do a second playtrough of A21 for sure. It will be exactly the same, so why bother. Pretty sure there is already groups that stopped playing or lost their stay at home players. We only keep playing because we know mods will propably fix this. If this game wouldn´t have mods this would be the end.

And now try any other style of playing and fail miserably. I really don´t get it. I mean the majority of players was already looting POI´s a lot. Why do they insist that everybody plays the same way? That makes the game more boring. Totally kills the concept of having roles in a group and excludes those who don´t like the action part of the game. And all the changes have a very small to zero effect on progression in SP. They only really hit hard in MP.

Wich doesn´t matter without a mod for the crafting skill aswell, you need both modded if you want to break the cycle of beeing forced to loot constantly. I mean you could simply enhance the droprate for magazines and jars in the xml for SP if you don´t want to go looting constantly . For public servers i wouldn´t do that as some people will abuse it to no end.

@boban Wow. That really showed me. Maybe stop beeing salty about a single comment? And that was actually just me saying that it is no surprise the game is going that way. I didn´t say i am happy about it. I literally just pointed out that anyone who is surprised they go that way didn´t pay any attention at all to the development of the game.

We don´t have troubles like OP in our group, but we recognized that the new system heavily favors everyone doing their own quest alone instead of doing them together. Same with the water in MP. Doing quests in a group is far worse now. I don´t play with friends to go questing alone.

In SP it´s no issue at all, that´s what really makes this change so awful. I can craft whatever i need whenever i need it. It´s really just there to force a certain playstyle. I really don´t get why they are so obsessed on making us play the game in one style only. I don´t get it.

@Scyris The issue in MP is that we have 2 people at home doing the mining. building, famring, cooking and crafting. They don´t enjoy looting at all. That´s why we struggled with water early on. It´s propably not a problem if everyone goes looting, but even then the system sucks. You actually need to go into different buildings because if you play as an actual party and do the same POI/quest together, you will get less water and less magazines than when everyone does their own building. Wich sucks bigtime. I don´t play with friends to go looting alone.

I have no issues at all in single player with water. You find enough in loot to keep you hydrated. I never struggled to have enough to drink. You need to go looting. That is what i don´t like about the water change (and the crafting magazines for that matter) those changes make the game linear instead of having the freedom to play however you want. If you struggle with water, do quests, best starting on day 1 (ofc depends how far away from the trader you spawn). You get money for quests to buy drinks and you loot water while doing them, sometimes you can get 10 water as a quest reward aswell. In MP Coop with 5 people it´s horrible with the water early game. Barely enough for drinking the first few days and making glue during the first week is nearly impossible. The water change really hit MP hard. In my SP it was no problem at all. Buckets are basically for building. So that you can fill up a pool you want in your base for example.

It is what i expected in MP coop. It´s really hard for people who absolutly don´t like to go looting to keep up. Even though we do bring home magazines, they simply can´t keep up. Wich makes the game uninteresting for them. Bringing the magazines home is quite the challenge in early game aswell due to inventory limitations. We usually are 3 people going out and 2 mining/building/cooking/farming/crafting. Can´t do that anymore. Everyone needs to go looting to keep things even. And even if we would accept that some stay behind a lot in the crafting tier, the parts for weapons/armor/tools are a problem, those seem to be tied to the skill aswell in loot. We have tons of parts for the skills of the people who go looting. And not a single pistol part or steel tool part and one steel armor part on day 21 wich are 3 of the crafting skills the stay at home people have. Plenty of parts for the skills that the players that go looting have. More than we ever need, like 20 steel spear parts for example. I can only hope that Khaine will someday release a standalone of the DF skill system as a mod or someone else a mod that can even out the gap between looting and not looting players with the magazines. Otherwise we need to find a new game for MP Coop. I really like the fact that it slows down progression quite a bit. Not everywhere but the pace is overall slower. It´s not immersive at all, wich sucks, and it kills the Coop for us though. Sad to see the freedom of how you can play this game gone. In SP you have no choice at all. You must go looting constantly to keep up with your gamestage. In SP it´s basically a linear game now. Every playtrough will be the same playstyle: Questing, questing, a little bit of mining and building for the horde and then again questing, questing and more questing. And exactly not having to do this, is what made this game so good.

@boban As said in my original post i was talking about MP here. We are constantly short on water at day 14 with a group of 5. We need a lot of duct tape, vehicles take damage from literally everything, even from curbs sometimes. Tools degrade. Crafting weapons and armor. And also drinking, because drinking with the waterfilter often doesn´t work. At 80% of the water bodies i don´t get the "press E to drink" SP has enough water easily.

Playing as group of 5 people and it´s for crafting. Repair kits, armor, vehicles, weapons. You need a lot of duct tape for 5 people. 50 is a bit of an exaggeration ofc. But i assume that at least 25 are needed.

@meganoth They nerfed water but gave us more food than ever when food was already everyhwere in A20 already. That´s weird. And having water everywhere but not beeing able to use it while needing 50 dew collectors is simply feeling wrong for a survival game. I could get that you can´t drink the water after the war and the pandemic without complicated treatment, but not even beeing able to use it for glue is simply weird af. Especially because we simply need a waterfilter mod to be able to drink it.

I just don´t get why the food was made easier at the same time. Like way easier. Now water is a problem early game (at least in MP, in SP it´s still a all you can drink buffet) but there is more food than ever. Lots of vegetables and seeds in the loot and a new "free meat" POI, the Hogzilla ranch. I am on day 10 and i have 1300 meat and a good amount of corn, potatoes and mushrooms without having a single farmplot, also many seeds to start a farm now. Default settings on warrior. I do appreciate a harder survival, something had to be done about water AND food. But the way it is done is weird af. In MP we need to make a football field full of dew collectors to keep up with the water while we are surrounded by water sources, wich are good enough quality of water to craft with it. That just feels so wrong and artifical. But we can eat all day long simply for the stamina bonus even when not hungry. Why was food buffed? That´s such a weird logic. I can understand nerfing water and keeping food the same and balancing it later in development, but buffing it is so weird.

Well at that point you should have a forge already and craft one.

It´s so weird that water got a huge nerf and food is easier than ever. And now it´s even impossible to not have a cooking pot on day one. Why? Why do you buff food so hard and nerf water at the same time instead of nerfing both a bit? It´s day 10 and i have 1300 meat but not nearly enough water. There is a new "free meat" POI, the Hogzilla ranch and there are way more vegetables and seeds in loot. It´s easier than ever to not starve. And why do you need to force the maybe 25% who don´t go looting to loot at all costs (magazines) but it´s still possible to live in the forest for the whole game? Making people leave the forest would be more importnant. There was more people never leaving the forest than people that don´t go looting. It´s even easier to stay in the forest now as you find enough aloe seeds now.