Alpha17 Feedback after 40 hours.

[PrivateRiem]

Me, my girlfriend and a mutual friend had been waiting a long time for alpha 17, and boy was it worth the wait.

We've been playing almost non-stop since 197 was released.

 

On our first 4 games, one ended because the old base setup I made simply didn't work anymore for BMs, and the others we died of starvation and thirst within the first week.

No easy access to a forge meant we scrounged everything and everywhere desperately trying to find a cooking pot and cooking grill. We also couldn't find any animals for meat whatsoever, so we starved.

Eventually we understood that we needed a forge on day one either from a trader or a nearby house to make those cooking items otherwise it simply wasn't playable.

We were used to playing Warrior + difficulty levels, but we were getting 2-shotted early game so we had to drop it to nomad.

So we started a new game, and ahoy trader had a forge. Grabbed raw iron, made pots and grills, and we finally started our game.

We are now almost level 100, and we built a jeep a few levels ago. I had to mod files to enable table saw and chemistry station because those weren't working.

I also had to disable irradiated vultures because those ruined two BMs by themselves due to errors.

 

Our leveling progress went along something like this.

First week: level 20 by BM.

Second week: level 50 by BM.

Third week: Level 70 by BM.

Fourth week: Level 85 by BM.

(1 hour days, nomad difficulty, almost 40 hours of play since we noticed the release monday night)

We are now early in week 5 and I'm 94, with ~1800 zombie kills. I also reduced the neardeathtrauma to 20 minutes (Which is a bit low, I will increase it back to 30 minutes) because 60 minutes was WAY too damn long and me and (especially) my girlfriend were getting really angry at how useless we became for an entire ingame day because of it. No crafting, no fighting, can't do anything for an hour is absurd. Early game the debuff is far, far worse, and probably shouldn't affect the intellect perks, so at least you have something to do while you rest.

 

By now I am unstoppable, and my girlfriend isn't far from that either. Irradiated zombie cops and other big threats are almost a joke at this point because of how tanky we got. There isn't that much of a challenge anymore, and I've been nearly unkillable since BM two. Our gamestage is above 150 now, and ferals are a-plenty when we're looting stuff.

We will increase the difficulty to Warrior soon.

We have maybe done 3-4 quests at trader each in those 31 days. The rewards aren't worth it most of the time and we got rich selling the temporary magazines buffs which are mostly useless, so we don't need the coins either, or the XP. Our trader was only offering quests in the 2, 2.5km+ range so doing that trek for so little reward, no thanks.

 

I don't really mind the level gating at 20 for the forge, except that cooking tools are a MUST HAVE in the first few days and they are rare enough as to make the game a nightmare if you don't find or craft them early. Additionally, even if you can use a forge before level 20, there isn't much else you can make in it, except for forged iron to repair tools and weapons.

Speaking of weapons, pickaxes and fireaxes suck. Collecting rock and wood with those seem to take forever even with the powermove and it's painful to do. We're lucky we found a somewhat early auger, it helped collect all the rock and sand we needed for concrete, otherwise I would have killed myself if I had been forced to keep slowly hitting rocks for ore with a pickaxe. Iron or steel, doesn't make a big difference really, both are awful. The exception is the shovel which isn't that bad and almost as fast as an auger for sand and clay. I never leave base without a sledgehammer because blowing up crates, doors, walls or ANYTHING really (Especially gun safes) is only viably done with a sledgehammer.

Digging an underground mine is unreasonable, and I have not found any ore while digging, and boy did I try.

 

Our first base was a small wooden cube and we knew it wouldn't stand a BM, so we built a bunker of upgraded flagstone, walls 3 blocks thick. We put way too many spikes in the entrance and around the base and we got our asses kicked when we got stuck outside the base having to fight off the horde.

 

I noticed that zombies ALWAYS seek and attack the weakest point of your base, regardless of where it is. We had a vault door, but instead of attacking it, they'd break the nearby wall instead as it was much faster to do so. They do a LOT of block damage, 8000hp is really not that much. Also steel blocks need a different item than regular steel, for QoL purposes. Upgrading blocks to steel accidentally while trying to repair concrete really gets on my nerves.

Second bloodmoon was a mess because of vultures throwing errors, same with third.

Third BM night, almost every block in the base had been upgraded to reinforced concrete, except for two blocks under the workbench I couldn't reach and all zombies tunneled through the walls and got inside the base from there, blowing up the workbench in the process. The base held well for the most part.

Now that everything was reinforced, I added a third layer of concrete (So it was 3 blocks high) and we moved everything from the first floor to the floor above for safety.

On the fourth BM, finally, zombies started going for the door instead of the walls. We had installed blade traps which proved incredibly lethal and essentially killed most of the horde by themselves. No xp from the traps is a damn shame and they should give a least a little, like 1/4.

 

My girlfriend went for the intellect-bow-user build and I went for the melee-tank build, and it's been working well.

The size of zombie hordes during the first week was a little intense when you don't have a lot to defend yourself or your base. 20+ zombies heat-seeking your guts on day 2-3 is way overtuned.

 

The progression of the intellect perks is incredibly off. At level 30, when we just unlocked bicycles, we had no wheels or way to make them. By the time we did, we had long ago unlocked the minibike, so we just built that instead. We leveled way faster than we could make use of the intellect perks we unlocked, and so we always overleveled their usefulness.

Cans of acid are way too damn rare. Over 31 days we found a total of 6, and we searched for them specifically.

Bicycles should be much easier to craft compared to the minibike (Including easier wheel crafting for them).

 

Heavy armor slows you down a whole lot more than light for how little the difference in damage resist is between the two. It's easier to build and repair, sure, and maybe it's meant for light armor to be better by endgame with military gear, I just wish I had known and went for light instead, but whatever, I'll just save my megacrush for horde night, not that I need it anymore anyway.

We REALLY need a perk to reduce bleeding chance because in the first two weeks it was bleed-city for me in my armor. I had to carry 20+ bandage permanently because almost every other hit would cause a bleed. Also, vultures are REALLY annoying for their bleed, and crawlers have an auto-leg-sprain on hit regardless of worn armor which is really annoying.

 

Crafting time bonus from the intellect perk only works while you're in the station/forge you started the crafting in. As soon as you leave, it reverts back to non-buffed crafting time, which sometimes means going from 5 minutes to 30 minutes crafting.

 

Iron clubs are far better than sledgehammers right now because Sledges have barely any working mods, and even modded to reduce stamina usage still consume an excessive amount of stamina, along with being way too slow. I haven't tried knives. Early game bows are awful for damage and killing purposes but endgame bows are absolute powerhouses with all that extra bonus damage stacked on top.

Flurry of blows bonus damage doesn't seem to be working at all with my club or my fists. Mods specifically mentioning hammers don't work for any of the hammers.

 

By now, we're finding an absurd amount of pistols, shotguns and hunting rifles that we simply do not use, and it's taking a lot of fun out of the exploring and scavenging part of the game. We have so many we bored two traders off buying our guns and we spent 2 ingame days in our jeep looking for more traders to sell our junk. Finding 20 pistols, or rocket launchers or what have you isn't exciting anymore, and we're not really finding anything else. I recently found the torch mod for my club and I've hardly had more fun since, it's absolutely amazing.

 

Damn shame none of the mods recipes are currently functioning, as we have found a lot of those that we'd love to use, especially for the bows.

 

For the first time we simply have not been using guns much or at all in our game. The AK-47 we had did come in handy defending the door during a BM but wasn't used after that. My club is far too powerful and my girlfriend's bow does more damage than my club, so why bother with guns when crafting munitions is so time consuming? We have tons of feathers and steel arrowheads are easy to make. Shotgun turrets are great however.

 

The lights on the jeep don't work, which is a shame because we can't see rocks that well at night. Additionally, the jeep seems incredibly weak. It will almost always break before running out of gas, which is really odd.

 

For bugs / suggestions,

flying minibike (Something we've seen in alpha 16)

(Might be related to chunk updates from 197 to 199) We had trees that couldn't be hit, and a tree that gave infinite XP (Was stuck at 0 hp)

Zombies bears can go through vault doors without being stopped, as if the door isn't there.

Zombie have no footstep sounds.

Bones are slightly too rare.

 

We're obviously loving this update, even if a lot of stuff is broken. Alpha 17 is far from ready for stable, but we look forward to it.

More feedback may be added as we keep playing.

[Roland]

Great feedback. Thanks.

[faatal]

Thanks for the info!

 

I fixed the error (sound problem) from Vulture vomit last night.

 

We continue to balance and fix issues, so it will get better.

[Survager]

Great feedback. Thanks.

 

Roland, can we see list off all bugs of 7 Days To Die alpha 17, from users in special theme, with state: fixed/in_prgress?

 

In the next experimental thread will be listed the fixed issues and the known issues which are what are in progress. Just follow the threads to see the progress.

[danielishhh]

Seconded

 

Roland, can we see list off all bugs of 7 Days To Die alpha 17, from users in special theme, with state: fixed/in_prgress?

 

Yeah, that would be awesome. I heard rumors of an update coming today, is that true?

[Roland]

Maybe today but soon for sure.

[Doctor3D]

Also steel blocks need a different item than regular steel, for QoL purposes. Upgrading blocks to steel accidentally while trying to repair concrete really gets on my nerves.

 

 

Yep - what i've done in the last couple Alphas to fix this HUGE pet peeve of mine after it goes stable is to change the tools around to behave like this:

 

Hammer\NailGun - Can upgrade and repair Wood only

Wrench - Can upgrade and repair Iron and Steel only

Concrete Bucket - Can upgrade and repair Concrete and Stone (I hope the pouring animation for it is still in A17 haven't checked yet).

 

 

This prevents that from happening and feels MUCH more realistic and fun. More similar to the classic building the game used to have in earlier Alphas. Downside is you have to always have three tools on you when building. But, i've never been a fan of the change to the upgrade system - and this has always been my workaround.

[Roland]

Yep - what i've done in the last couple Alphas to fix this HUGE pet peeve of mine after it goes stable is to change the tools around to behave like this:

 

Hammer\NailGun - Can upgrade and repair Wood only

Wrench - Can upgrade and repair Iron and Steel only

Concrete Bucket - Can upgrade and repair Concrete and Stone (I hope the pouring animation for it is still in A17 haven't checked yet).

 

 

This prevents that from happening and feels MUCH more realistic and fun. More similar to the classic building the game used to have in earlier Alphas. Downside is you have to always have three tools on you when building. But, i've never been a fan of the change to the upgrade system - and this has always been my workaround.

 

Like it. Very elegant solution to over upgrading by accident.

[madmole]

Good post. I've already made acid more abundant and I'm lowering bicycle INT req to 4. You'll still have to scrounge up a workbench at a trader to craft it, but I find working stuff in POIs too.

[bloom_meister]

Great feedback. Thanks.

 

Very even handed

 

You trash everyone complaining about a whole host of things with long posts about how wrong they are but when a guy says he likes it then its ''great feedback''

 

Definitely a fair approach there Roland

[PrivateRiem]

Very even handed

 

You trash everyone complaining about a whole host of things with long posts about how wrong they are but when a guy says he likes it then its ''great feedback''

 

Definitely a fair approach there Roland

 

I tried keeping my feedback constructive as much as I could, and I didn't rush to the forum in the first five minutes of playing to complain about something I thought I didn't like. I really hated iron and forge gated to 20 at first until I got to play more with it and realized I didn't mind it as much as I originally thought, at least as long as I had access to cooking tools.

 

Same way I realized 20 minutes death debuff is a tad too low in my opinion, and even my girlfriend agreed to bump it back to half an hour. This is from the point of view of people playing 60 minute days.

 

I also had to cut a few things from my post because I hit the character cap.

More feedback suggestions:

Maybe tone down the feral zombies in tier 1 fetch quest mission. In our first game we got absolutely destroyed by a feral that simply two-shotted us at warrior (Which prompted us to reduce difficulty).

Getting our backpacks back were an absolute pain and getting rid of a feral zombie with starting weaponry is REALLY difficult, especially at day 3. We got lucky finding an SMG which allowed us to get rid of it, but not before dying 4-5 times to this single zombie while still failing the quest (Due to distance).

 

Girlfriend suggesting to adjust near-death-trauma duration based on game difficulty (Either overall difficulty, or maybe gamestage, or player level, increasing over time so starting characters don't get shafted too hard)

 

More stuff later.

 

[Edit:]

There seems to be a lack of building materials for bases. You go from upgraded flagstone/bricks to reinforced concrete, without anything before or after (Pure steel walls are very expensive to make and repair, and flagstone is far too weak).

[Bubbahotetp]

Very even handed

 

You trash everyone complaining about a whole host of things with long posts about how wrong they are but when a guy says he likes it then its ''great feedback''

 

Definitely a fair approach there Roland

 

My thoughts exactly. The good feedback is actually the one that challenges your views, not the one that gives you a little pat on the back - if you are aiming for improvement that is.

[Guest]

I'm "only" on day 24 in my game and going at it solo, so a little less far along, but most of what you wrote mirrors my experiences.

 

Before I sum up my criticisms, I have to say that TFP really exceeded my expectations with this build. Hats off to the team, it's obvious that a lot of work was put into this update and although I still think the EA update/information cycle leaves a lot to be desired, at least the payoff is quite big this time around. I haven't been this absorbed by a game in a while, nicely done.

 

My current game is my third attempt at A17e, the first two were cut short by multiple deaths and feeling behind the curve too much to continue. For this one, I went back to Navezgane (initial two were RWG). Settings/difficulty were mostly standard, aside from marking airdrops because I felt I needed the help So far, I've only died once, and it wasn't even on a Blood Moon (got swarmed in some dusty attic).

 

My criticisms so far

 

• I got lucky with iron tools from traders/WS crates, so I'm unsure if the current forge gate is bad, but it feels like the reqs could be lowered a bit. Iron tools aren't that powerful without perks invested anyways.
   
   
  
• Bicycle should either be easily lootable or craftable from scratch (once materials have been found). It makes exploration so much more enjoyable, without being so fast as to render distance moot.
   
   
  
• Mods are great, too bad the progression.xml is still such a mess. Have to add most of them manually, in addition to the saw table and chem station.
   
   
  
• Currently the only viable way of leveling up is by fighting zombies. Mining and crafting need an XP buff to make them more worthwhile activities. Zombie XP could be scaled down a little to balance it out. I'm currently seeking out hordes just for the XP, and whacking slow conga lines in the head gets old. Variation in XP would be neat!
   
   
  
• RWG towns look better than ever thanks to the huge variation in POIs, but the landscape is a patchy mess of forest and burned forest, which is annoying to navigate and soon becomes boring. No problem with having only one desert and snow biome in the South and North, but we need more reasons to actually go there in RWG. Skyscrapers and wasteland seem to be missing in action. Needs more high risk/high reward areas imho.
   
   
  
• Quests are mostly pointless, as OP stated. Too much travel time for laughable XP (killing two zombies nets you more) and lackluster items as rewards too often. Running through a POI dungeon is a much better reward all by itself. Maybe if quests had a better chance for rare but critical loot as reward (even relatively early on)? I.e. beakers, acid, seeds, mods/schematics. (EDIT: seeing rewards up front would help!!)
   
   
  
• Zombie/horde AI is obviously an improvement over A16, but needs serious tweaking for better immersion and more dynamic horde nights.
  - Non-BM hordes need to go for your "last known position" rather than locking on and navigating straight to the player.
  - Bloodmoon hordes need varied pathing/intelligence: right now the best/only strategy seems to be exploiting their GPS pathing by deliberately leaving a hole in your defenses so they all come through an easily set up kill zone. It feels like cool, immersive bases aren't viable because the zombies will always target the weakest spot all together anyways.
   
   
  
• Loot is way too saturated with low quality guns. I've started scrapping pretty much every one I find, just so I can easily get the ammo and a few mechanical parts. I was swimming in dukes at the end of the first week just by selling guns that felt like game changers in A16. I get that the mods now make the difference, but it would be nice if finding guns still felt exciting. Especially if pre-modded guns were a possible find (would obviously have to be rare).
   
   
  
• Lighting is very pleasing in general, but day/night transitions are way too abrupt and during the night there seem to be sudden shifts in global illumination.
   
   
  
• Please fix the night vision goggles, the A16 implementation was fine!
  

 

That's it for now. Hopefully this was of some use!

[giKoN]

Girlfriend suggesting to adjust near-death-trauma duration based on game difficulty (Either overall difficulty, or maybe gamestage, or player level, increasing over time so starting characters don't get shafted too hard)

 

Just for the record, by interfering with the buffs.xml you have modded your game to make the game more pleasing to you. So the dev's shouldn't overread that part which is clear criticism of the near death trauma - which many others were picking up as well.

 

I understand your good experience from assuming that you play on a server only with your 4 friends. And with that I partly support your view - however, on a server where not every player is cooperative with you but there is a rivalry for loot, xp, bases, materials etc. the current gating makes it hard to get started - especially if others start earlier than you.

[Guppycur]

For fun, re read the op but use "bowel movement" for bm.

[Roland]

Very even handed

 

You trash everyone complaining about a whole host of things with long posts about how wrong they are but when a guy says he likes it then its ''great feedback''

 

Definitely a fair approach there Roland

 

Where did I trash someone’s opinion? You’re just continuing to make stuff up again. Please tell us again that your source says that what everyone is playing right now won’t show up until 2019....

 

This report was from someone with 40+hrs in the game and had a mixture of likes and dislikes. I didn’t say a word about his criticism or his praise. I just told him it’s a good example of great feedback which it is. He didn’t get angry about his dislikes and didn’t make false unknowable assumptions about the intentions of the developers like you often do (or just flat out make up sources). Anyone who read the OP and thought it was all rainbows and unicorns needs to read it again.

 

It was very constructive.

[DrTeath]

Yep - what i've done in the last couple Alphas to fix this HUGE pet peeve of mine after it goes stable is to change the tools around to behave like this:

 

Hammer\NailGun - Can upgrade and repair Wood only

Wrench - Can upgrade and repair Iron and Steel only

Concrete Bucket - Can upgrade and repair Concrete and Stone (I hope the pouring animation for it is still in A17 haven't checked yet).

 

 

This prevents that from happening and feels MUCH more realistic and fun. More similar to the classic building the game used to have in earlier Alphas. Downside is you have to always have three tools on you when building. But, i've never been a fan of the change to the upgrade system - and this has always been my workaround.

 

OR, an easier way that doesnt require any change to the games code, only have the materials for the tier you want in your inventory .

[giKoN]

He didn’t get angry about his dislikes and didn’t make false unknowable assumptions about the intentions of the developers like you often do (or just flat out make up sources).

 

Something you love to provoke in your path to discredit any criticism.

 

I think the problem is that most of the player that are expressing what in their opinion is currently wrong with the game really focus on what they think is wrong rather than throwing a cookie in your mouth every here and then. The critical posts are typically so long packed with good feedback focussing on what's missing - what's typically not mentioned is what those players think went right. So maybe you read between the lines to get that cookie sometimes.

[PrivateRiem]

OR, an easier way that doesnt require any change to the games code, only have the materials for the tier you want in your inventory .

 

There are no reinforced concrete doors.

If I want to repair a Vault door while also having the materials to repair my concrete walls, I run the risk of accidentally upgrading my walls to steel, which is something I very much want to avoid.

 

Dart traps have been significantly buffed, and do a LOT of damage. A single dart trap under a door is capable of easily killing most zombies on demand.

 

Some perk description are particularly confusing as to how they add up.

Example: Pack mule says you get -4 encumbered slots, then -5, then -6, and then -6 again etc. for a total of 27.

But the Wrecking crew perk says increase power attack by 5,10,15,20,25. Is the total bonus while maxed 25% additional damage, or 75%?

[Thecolours]

Good post. I've already made acid more abundant and I'm lowering bicycle INT req to 4. You'll still have to scrounge up a workbench at a trader to craft it, but I find working stuff in POIs too.

 

Is this in 199 or coming in the next update?

[arquebus]

Something you love to provoke in your path to discredit any criticism.

 

I think the problem is that most of the player that are expressing what in their opinion is currently wrong with the game really focus on what they think is wrong rather than throwing a cookie in your mouth every here and then. The critical posts are typically so long packed with good feedback focussing on what's missing - what's typically not mentioned is what those players think went right. So maybe you read between the lines to get that cookie sometimes.

 

Generally what I see in the critical posts is just a lot of infantile pouting, ad hominem attacks and general douchebaggery. You can give me a diamond worth a million dollars but if you've stuffed it inside a moose poop don't expect me to thank you for the moose poop.

[Doctor3D]

OR, an easier way that doesnt require any change to the games code, only have the materials for the tier you want in your inventory .

 

Too tedious for large builds and mistakes still happen. Trying to repair steel spikes around a concrete wall and you accidentally upgrade the concrete to steel when you miss the spike. You also have to constantly swap out materials and it's just a needless hassle when some simple xml changes fixes it. Not to mention - I simply don't like things like upgrading or repairing concrete with a nail gun - ruins immersion to even see it. While I call it a downside - I actually like the fact that more of the tools are useful this way. The way it is now - once you get a nail-gun most all other tools besides wrench are pretty useless.

[Roland]

Is this in 199 or coming in the next update?

 

Internal build was up to 202 last night. Not sure if they cooked another one today. The changes would be in the new update. Not sure when that will be coming.

[bloom_meister]

Where did I trash someone’s opinion? You’re just continuing to make stuff up again. Please tell us again that your source says that what everyone is playing right now won’t show up until 2019....

 

This report was from someone with 40+hrs in the game and had a mixture of likes and dislikes. I didn’t say a word about his criticism or his praise. I just told him it’s a good example of great feedback which it is. He didn’t get angry about his dislikes and didn’t make false unknowable assumptions about the intentions of the developers like you often do (or just flat out make up sources). Anyone who read the OP and thought it was all rainbows and unicorns needs to read it again.

 

It was very constructive.

 

Your first statement is a bare faced lie, its currently 24th of November and I said no A17 until 2019 was what I was told, now if A17 S T A B L E drops before xmas you'll have proven that wrong, why don't we wait and see who is right there Roland ...

 

My second statement was that it was a mess, and that was over a month ago, well duh, look at what landed, I will take that one I think.

 

Additionally i did not mention anything about people showing up or not showing up, i can quote the exact words if you like but then thats what you want because you banned for saying it the first time and would just use that as an excuse to ban me again.

 

And fyi I have given positive feedback on many points already for A17 such as the POI design, that does not take away from all the broken rubbish.

[Laz Man]

Very even handed

 

You trash everyone complaining about a whole host of things with long posts about how wrong they are but when a guy says he likes it then its ''great feedback''

 

Definitely a fair approach there Roland

 

I clearly can see you 2 dont like each other but dont drag down this thread into the mud please. If you have some beef with roland take it to the PMs.