After 4000 hours with a11-a16, I won't spend much time in a17x. Here's why... no fun!

[OzHawkeye]

I replied specifically to someone dismissing my argument. Not you. Although I can understand by your response why you took exception. A guilty conscience can keep you up at night defending against imaginary enemies.

 

I you want Roland ONLY to respond to what you're saying, then PM him, otherwise it's a public comment to which any and all can reply.

[Poojam]

I you want Roland ONLY to respond to what you're saying, then PM him, otherwise it's a public comment to which any and all can reply.

 

I even quoted Kosmic Kerman in my reply? Are you trolling or something?

[OzHawkeye]

I even quoted Kosmic Kerman in my reply? Are you trolling or something?

 

You're right, you replied to Kosmic Kerman, not Roland. So, on that score, I'm wrong, and apologise accordingly.

 

I still think your statement was completely inaccurate though, so I stand by that. There's a TONNE of negative posts and threads about A17 in this forum room, so if negative opinion is being suppressed, it's being suppressed very poorly indeed.

[wacojitsu]

Classic entitled opinions. You my friend need to move on to other games instead of ♥♥♥♥ting on this awesome game and awesome update that gave you that much good times.

 

Anytime someone has a different opinion then your self. just call them entitled. it's the trump of 2018. this update has added a bunch of broken stuff that might be good when it's fixed and it's taken away so much!!! TFP wants this to be a roller coaster ride but most of us wanted a sandbox. we didn't want to play it the way TFP wants us to play it. and alpha after alpha they have taken away the ways we enjoy to play this game. If you don't like our opinion that doesn't make us entitled. that just means you enjoy playing 7days the way tfp wants you to play it. but you don't seem to be in the majority anymore.

[Poojam]

Classic entitled opinions. You my friend need to move on to other games instead of ♥♥♥♥ting on this awesome game and awesome update that gave you that much good times.

 

In your own personal best interest, you should probably stop coming to the forums and play something else?

 

This is what you get from people who overplay early accessed games. Can handle anything that gets harder. Hates any change they see. I am sure TFP will not change the game to the previous alphas because of a rant in the forms.

 

4000 hours??? thats time to consider getting a life now bud..

 

 

 

 

I still think your statement was completely inaccurate though, so I stand by that. There's a TONNE of negative posts and threads about A17 in this forum room, so if negative opinion is being suppressed, it's being suppressed very poorly indeed.

 

I didn't say suppressed. Those are your words.

 

I would say that you and Roland are on the same bandwagon as these four examples, which have been taken from this thread. Not sure if you're as brazen, but Roland tried to be with statistics and had to retract his argument. Understand the combativeness yet? It goes both ways.

[n2n1]

It’s true. There are none who actually like A17. Just bots put out by TFP to support their changes.

 

You wonder and can’t understand what kind of people they are who like something you don’t?

 

Lol....Not-You’s.

 

Hate to break it to you but every single one of us is outnumbered by people who aren’t ourselves.

 

Oh no, don't worry - that doesn't offend me at all.

Of course i know that we are in the minority, and the developers make the game for the mass consumer.

Now the game is what most want mass-players (...like consoles).

I just wanted to support the man with his opinion. His opinion - individually.

...although...probably not....if you've noticed....

 

 

 

PS: I like the technical stuff of A17. These innovations may really improve the game later.

Now it's just a... "preform". It's temporary, and it was meant to be.

But the game mechanics since A13 - this is complete crap.

 

(yes, i understand everything about "the desire of the vast majority of people."

But, i suspect that, however, should not be so what there is now. And so, people express such discontent.

Everything can be corrected after, but the general direction is wrong.)

[Gorenuke]

I see that some people are just going with the whole "dont worry we can mod that out" approach, and that is reasonable, but it is also a bit backwards compared to how mods were normally implemented to improve the game experience.

 

Let me explain what i mean by that.

For alpha 16 we added mods that expanded the endgame, quality of life mods, or just mods we thought would be fun for the players while still being balanced. We more or less added things onto a flawed but solid product to make it more interesting and enjoyable.

But for this alpha we might have to start working on modding out some of the new game mechanics, instead of adding things to an already strong gameplay experience, and that feels a bit counter-intuitive.

[LuckyStar]

I see that some people are just going with the whole "dont worry we can mod that out" approach, and that is reasonable, but it is also a bit backwards compared to how mods were normally implemented to improve the game experience.

 

Let me explain what i mean by that.

For alpha 16 we added mods that expanded the endgame, quality of life mods, or just mods we thought would be fun for the players while still being balanced. We more or less added things onto a flawed but solid product to make it more interesting and enjoyable.

But for this alpha we might have to start working on modding out some of the new game mechanics, instead of adding things to an already strong gameplay experience, and that feels a bit counter-intuitive.

 

You argument lacks validity as this is A17e ... the e being experimental.

 

This isn't an actual A17 release.

 

So... yeah.... lots of Modding is going to happen right now to make the game playable in players' eyes.

So what?

 

When a stable version of A17 comes out then we can discuss the "Mod it out" comments.

I'm guessing, however, that a lot of balancing issues will have been resolved by then and many other changes.

 

Sorry but.... Modding seems to be the only working option available to players at the moment.

Nothing wrong with that.

[n2n1]

And Yes , as Guppy correctly said - "no one plays mods",

 

no need to shift the responsibility to mods.

so....need to make a Normal Game!

mods - are just an addition!

 

(here i was being disingenuous )

[Shin]

You removed FUN from 7DTD.

 

I for one totally agree with OP and this just sums it up in one sentence.

[Gorenuke]

You argument lacks validity as this is A17e ... the e being experimental.

 

This isn't an actual A17 release.

 

So... yeah.... lots of Modding is going to happen right now to make the game playable in players' eyes.

So what?

 

When a stable version of A17 comes out then we can discuss the "Mod it out" comments.

I'm guessing, however, that a lot of balancing issues will have been resolved by then and many other changes.

 

Sorry but.... Modding seems to be the only working option available to players at the moment.

Nothing wrong with that.

 

First of all, i said "we might have to start working on modding out some of the new game mechanics" emphasis on "might"

Second of all its not an argument, its just me voicing my opinion, also i am trying to explain that i would like to see the changes i want for the game to start at the developer level instead of having to leave it to the modders.

 

Also what is your point? The first part of your post seems to dismiss the fact that modders are already starting to see what they can and cant do because its still in an experimental phase, but you end your post by saying that modding is the only working option available at the moment.

[Benjiro]

 

When a stable version of A17 comes out then we can discuss the "Mod it out" comments..

 

You just had me giggling a bit with that comment. We are actually talking about a game in alpha, where we are waiting for the stable release of the alpha, that is now in alpha, alpha or is it a beta alpha development.

 

The issue is not that we are in experimental but the fact that even basic functionality that people wanted to get back, seems to have been disabled.

 

If we do not like something, mod it back in. That is the comment that is written all over this forum on criticism of the new skill system and the removal of the old experience system, before the experimental.

 

But clearly people are already struggling with modding it back in. So unless the TFPs actually bother to listen to people right now, and open up the old methods again, A17 will be officially released as "well, ==== anybody that wants the old system back". I see Spider and co already talking about dll hacking. That is not mod friendly and far from the comments "do not like the new system, mod the old back in". It feels like a big f.ck you by the devs to all the people that actually liked the old system of experience. Its now become "here is our new system, you will like it because we disabled any alternatives".

 

And to put things in perspective. We need to wait 16+ months for A17, then we need to wait another x months for mod developers to get some of the old features back ( assuming its even possible ) into a stable release. So people can actually enjoy the new AI and some of the other improvements.

 

Alpha game, experimental sub release, alpha mod release waiting.... What a crazy world we live in.

[giKoN]

You argument lacks validity as this is A17e ... the e being experimental.

 

This isn't an actual A17 release.

 

So... yeah.... lots of Modding is going to happen right now to make the game playable in players' eyes.

So what?

 

When a stable version of A17 comes out then we can discuss the "Mod it out" comments.

I'm guessing, however, that a lot of balancing issues will have been resolved by then and many other changes.

 

Sorry but.... Modding seems to be the only working option available to players at the moment.

Nothing wrong with that.

 

So when is best to express your opinion and the things you dislike? After the stable release when only minor updates will come which focus on fixing bugs? When at the same time most of the devs are working on A18 which will then be released at an ETA of between 6 and 18 months?

 

One year is enough time to cure my addiction to the game at least.

[Thunderfrog]

You just had me giggling a bit with that comment. We are actually talking about a game in alpha, where we are waiting for the stable release of the alpha, that is now in alpha, alpha or is it a beta alpha development.

 

The issue is not that we are in experimental but the fact that even basic functionality that people wanted to get back, seems to have been disabled.

 

If we do not like something, mod it back in. That is the comment that is written all over this forum on criticism of the new skill system and the removal of the old experience system, before the experimental.

 

But clearly people are already struggling with modding it back in. So unless the TFPs actually bother to listen to people right now, and open up the old methods again, A17 will be officially released as "well, ==== anybody that wants the old system back". I see Spider and co already talking about dll hacking. That is not mod friendly and far from the comments "do not like the new system, mod the old back in". It feels like a big f.ck you by the devs to all the people that actually liked the old system of experience. Its now become "here is our new system, you will like it because we disabled any alternatives".

 

And to put things in perspective. We need to wait 16+ months for A17, then we need to wait another x months for mod developers to get some of the old features back ( assuming its even possible ) into a stable release. So people can actually enjoy the new AI and some of the other improvements.

 

Alpha game, experimental sub release, alpha mod release waiting.... What a crazy world we live in.

 

After 5 years this is an Alpha in name only. Being called an Alpha allows TFP to have a way to excuse the worst parts of their game under the "Alpha Umbrella" while seeking praise and money for the good parts. That existed previously. Before A17.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Classic entitled opinions. You my friend need to move on to other games instead of ♥♥♥♥ting on this awesome game and awesome update that gave you that much good times.

 

"Your opinion is different from mine. Thus, you are entitled and whiny and need to go away."

 

Classy.

[Sergoros]

You argument lacks validity as this is A17e ... the e being experimental.

 

This isn't an actual A17 release.

 

So... yeah.... lots of Modding is going to happen right now to make the game playable in players' eyes.

So what?

 

When a stable version of A17 comes out then we can discuss the "Mod it out" comments.

I'm guessing, however, that a lot of balancing issues will have been resolved by then and many other changes.

 

Sorry but.... Modding seems to be the only working option available to players at the moment.

Nothing wrong with that.

 

Wrong. NOW is the time to voice our opinion, when devs are still testing the waters. Once a17 goes stable, devs wont even bother to listen to us. And they sure wont have time to change it all back. Or at least add such an option in xml.

[Bubbahotetp]

I see that some people are just going with the whole "dont worry we can mod that out" approach, and that is reasonable, but it is also a bit backwards compared to how mods were normally implemented to improve the game experience.

 

Let me explain what i mean by that.

For alpha 16 we added mods that expanded the endgame, quality of life mods, or just mods we thought would be fun for the players while still being balanced. We more or less added things onto a flawed but solid product to make it more interesting and enjoyable.

But for this alpha we might have to start working on modding out some of the new game mechanics, instead of adding things to an already strong gameplay experience, and that feels a bit counter-intuitive.

 

+1. That's what many people don't get. Listen to him. The man (?) is right!

[Amaldiirn]

And Yes , as Guppy correctly said - "no one plays mods",

Say for yourself please, i mainly play exactly mods in 7dtd. because of 1.5 years between versions and because mods are variable and different, they add something in gameplay, add features people find missing or correct something wrong in the game system. And yes, anyway, will 17 be good or as it is now - i will play mods when they come. Because it's just simply better (for me, of cource) than usual version, 150% > 100%.

But if we "MUST mod the game to have normal gameplay" instead of "CAN improve already good gameplay"... There are two very-very different things.

And considering different issues with mods like EAC incompatibility, difficulty of dll\xml editing for common mortals, lower number of people playing mods than vanilla - it is not as simple as it looks like to make and even play modes.

[OzHawkeye]

I didn't say suppressed. Those are your words.

 

I would say that you and Roland are on the same bandwagon as these four examples, which have been taken from this thread. Not sure if you're as brazen, but Roland tried to be with statistics and had to retract his argument. Understand the combativeness yet? It goes both ways.

 

It goes both ways? You think? If you saw some of the private messages I've received you'd know how little surprised I'd be to hear that some people with concerns about A17 have "taken it too far". Highly, highly abusive messages.

 

Unfortunately there are people on BOTH sides of this debate, letting it get WAY out of hand, and I'll continue to do my best to filter those people out, through editing of posts, or stronger actions where needed.

 

The frustrating part, is I've voiced my own concerns about A17, yet many people with concerns claim we Moderators are in some way trying to stifle debate. The really SAD part is, that where some really good concerns have been raised (and I definitely agree some have), they may well get lost in the sea of poorly raised concerns, or outright insulting or abusive posting.

 

You yourself have accused me of having "a guilty conscience" and looking to fight "imaginary enemies".

 

There's four fundamental problems I see with much of the debate about the merits or otherwise of A17 going on right now:

 

1. It's REALLY early.

 

The experimental has been out for about a week now. So, it's great the feedback is coming in (both negative AND positive!), but a week in is just wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy to early to be calling time on A17, yet many people are.

 

2. Many of the problems being talked about are balancing issues.

 

It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that A17.E is unbalanced. No-one ought to be playing A17.E expecting to not find issues, nor should anyone be reasonably expecting to be able to carry that game through to A17 stable.

 

3. Some of the issues being talked about really WILL have to be overcome with mods.

 

For the simple reason that TFP are making a broad-based, "vanialla" interpretation of the game as they see it, the greatest asset of which is its mod-friendly nature. So some things people are asking, it's quite a legitimate answer to say "If you want it, mod it".

 

4. Some people just don't like the direction the game is going in.

 

And for those people, the final answer might well just have to be, play the older Alpha's then. I still have an A10 game going, because certain elements on A10 were my favourite and still are, even after all this time. The Early Access process doesn't guarantee anyone anything beyond the game, as it stood, on the day it was purchased, and certainly is at pains to point out that it could evolve in ways that the purchaser might not like.

 

These four issues all show completely legitimate responses that don't involve TFP racing to adjust the A17.E B199 of the game to account for player feedback.

 

On the other hand, the community has raised some legitimate points of concern that I reckon do fall outside those four issues, for example the level gating of perks, the inability to have multiple active Land Claim Blocks, the ability for Z to dig down, the multiplicative damage of horde attacks, and others, some of which will never have any impact on me, but which I agree with any way, and some I just don't agree with.

 

Hopefully the Pimps will be able to filter out the crappy posts, and find the well put ones, to get the feedback from the community they need, and on take on board what, after consideration, they agree with, and look to fold that feedback into what eventually becomes A17.0.

[leaderdog]

The cart is a bit before the horse here. They estimate that in a few months they should be able to have around 300 mods. Once mods are plentiful and you have enough to fill all five slots on a purple item, quality will mean something. Presently it only means durability.

 

but. the problem with this is the "Schematic" is only lootable right? or at least at the moment it seems that way. We can't learn it and create it. We have to find the schematic and then build it.

 

So if I want a spiked club. I have to wait until I find a schematic some where. Something this simple should be intuitive don't you think?

 

Hmm, what would make this bat more dangerous... Spikes coming out of it. ooooh yeah baby! Damn wish I had a schematic to nail some nails through this thing.

 

Same thing with barbed wire, pretty simple, cut a fence, wrap it around bat. Or find barbed wire in a store, wrap it around. Making barbed wire yourself would be much harder tho. need wire, sharpen two ends of a small piece and pliers to wrap it around the longer wire. Not impossible but much more work.

 

I get making the game "challenging" but common sense items should still prevail. boiled eggs, simple mods.

 

Chokes and silencers for guns. I dunno, those I think should be lootable mods not built by players. I think the best silencers that the majority of us would be able to come up with is taping a plastic bottle to the end of a muzzle. It works, not pretty, and certainly not sure how long it would last.

 

In truth half the fun for me was finding the books to learn a new skill item, the other half is killing zombies and freedom to build and do as I please.

 

Skill points from bonking zombies all day just doesn't feel right at all.

 

Totally feels like every other skill based game out there rather than being it's own unique game that is so much better than all those other games. Probably why you have so many people with well over a 1000 hours in the game (including myself). Most developers don't get that level of loyalty from their player base.

 

I suppose if you're trying to appeal to a new crowd, the console sort and the ones with no imagination to build or create their own fun, then we're on the right path... at least for them.

 

After I modded the stam and gave myself a bigger backpack (restricting it to two lines was just torture) I enjoyed it more, but the game play was just kill zombie focus to level. Which I was then punished for on horde night. level 40 and day 7 horde cops, wights, radiated zeds - 24 enemies at a time. Which I'm fine with. Just their insane rotting bodies that take and do to much damage. (oh and the pause when a new zombie loads in made it incredibly difficult to play)

 

I also realize the pimps want you to "enjoy" the more primitive stage of the game. But who does that seriously? any rts any rpg, any MMO you always do one thing, race to level. And making 7dtd just like those games then that's always going to be peoples goal.

[Xyle]

I agree with most of the what the op says...

 

The replay for A17 will be very boring and exactly the same. Something totally different than previous versions. As others have said, I always got a kick from starting over. With A17, I actually dread it. Basically it comes down to kill approx 249 Zombies to get to level 20.

 

Me and the wifey enjoyed the base building and crafting aspect more than the zombie clearing. I will say though that I do like the higher difficulty of the zombies and the improved AI. The fact that they can dig down to an underground base only livens things up and makes it more exciting. Better have a good escape plan!

 

I am not a fan at all of the new stamina/ health systems. I spent the majority of the first 15 days at 25 health just because I couldn't find first aid kits or bandages. I don't really like having to eat foods to keep my max stamina high or having to use first aids to keep my max health high. Just doesn't feel like a good system.

 

Personally not a big fan of the skill system. It pretty much dictates your progression and will take away from the replay value due to the fact that all replays will be pretty much the same. I am more in favor of gaining xp in whatever you are doing, kill with rifles = Weapon xp, farming and mining = tool xp, etc. This system of just killing zombies non stop to level up gets boring very quickly.

 

The quest system so far is looking outstanding! Kudos on this one! This will definitely add a very cool element to the game. I've only done a few fetch quests, but so far I do like it alot.

 

Not really sure about the dungeon system yet as I was never much of a raider/ looter ever since most sleepers were ferals for me. Just part of the game I didn't enjoy. I did go in 1 dungeon so far just because I knew it would be a good source of zombie killing/ XP. From what I saw, it looked good and did have quite a fun aspect to it.

 

Haven't experienced the mod system yet, but from what I see, it looks absolutely beautiful! Been hearing on some servers that we cant craft them yet.

 

Love arrows sticking and being retrievable, that is awesome!

 

To sum it up, it really feels like the customization of each persons play through has been removed or severely gimped. Every play session will be pretty much the same and get boring pretty quick. I was a 60% base builder, 20% looter, 20% zombie slayer where my wifey was 100% crafter. Now she cant be a crafter unless she kills a ton of zombies.

 

I am over 3000 hours and have been playing since A7(?) This is definitely one of my absolute favorite games and I have tried all the survival games. Hopefully things will get tweaked to improve the gameplay on this version.

[mr.devolver]

I’m mocking the simplistic idea that everyone should like what I like.

 

I remember when you said that just because "you" don't like some part of the game design doesn't mean it's bad. That's true, but only for as long as the majority of people is still happy with it. That was prior to release of Alpha 17 and now after the release, we see more and more posts filled with negative feedback. Are you still insisting on that they all are wrong? And if the answer is yes, don't you think that's exactly the same simplistic idea that everyone should like what you like? You know, the one that you said you're mocking?

[SnowDog1942]

I remember when you said that just because "you" don't like some part of the game design doesn't mean it's bad. That's true, but only for as long as the majority of people is still happy with it. That was prior to release of Alpha 17 and now after the release, we see more and more posts filled with negative feedback. Are you still insisting on that they all are wrong? And if the answer is yes, don't you think that's exactly the same simplistic idea that everyone should like what you like? You know, the one that you said you're mocking?

 

Pre A17 the recent reviews on steam were mixed. Post A17 they are very positive.

 

I mean... I'm not sure what proof you have that most people hate it besides a few loudmouths on the forums, but to me it seems like its doing great.

[giKoN]

Pre A17 the recent reviews on steam were mixed. Post A17 they are very positive.

 

I mean... I'm not sure what proof you have that most people hate it besides a few loudmouths on the forums, but to me it seems like its doing great.

 

And if you actually take the time to read through those ratings, you will find that there are oh too many people with good reviews "waiting for a17 release" or with so few hours that they likely didn't find out to opt into latest experimental. I would be very careful.

 

Rated as good examples:

A17 has made me super sad. I know "Pimpin' Ain't Easy" but you didn't have to "trick" all of us.

 

Despite the current state of the game (which isn't all bad, it's just a lot different now) I still have to say it's fun and worth the discount sale price.

 

Update: Read the patch notes for A17 and understand what all of the changes were - especially the one about how every building is an "event" now with multiple Z's waiting for you. This is how you grind that first 20 levels before you can start having A16 fun again. Learn to fight first then learn to build.

 

I'm thining of it like this: If I was to be caught in a Z apocolypse on Day 1 I wouldn't know♥♥♥♥♥♥about surival, I'd have to learn on the fly. Keep in mind this game is ALSO telling a story. Accept the world you are living in and the story that's being told and you will have more fun.

 

To date, this is the game that I have sunk the most hours into since it came out five years ago. What I love most is that the game is practically reinvented with every new alpha build, and the game just keeps getting better and better. Hands down, this is the ONLY open-world zombie survival game I will wholeheartedly recommend.

 

I now await with eager anticipation the release of Alpha 17. It looks like it will follow in the tradition of continuous improvement and polishing of an already great game.

 

The 7 Days to Die game offers a variety of enjoyable yet simplistic aspects, all enhancing the game functionalities and complimenting other minor aspects within the game.

 

The character (in which you can design yourself if you so wish, or you can choose from the pre-made models) is placed in a diverse landscape with relatively easy on the eyes graphics. This sandbox game is great for playing alone and even better for playing with a couple of friends. It combines survivalism and the element of creativity with a hint of PvE (Player Versus Entity) so that no matter the player, there is something to do in-game.

 

There are a few minor bugs as you would expect but the game does receive patches fairly often that fix these, and most of the time these glitches like 'lost minibike' or 'minibike stuck in wall' normally fix themselves within a few minutes, if not a re-log may suffice.

 

Overall great game, absolutely smitten with it along with my friends.

 

Points to take from this review:

Diverse Game.

Good Physics and sense of Realism (minor the zombies of course ;^))

Good Graphics.

Incorporates players that prefer building and creativity with people who prefer fighting and gunplay.

A great gift for a mate or a family member.

 

Still needs a lot of work, and devs don't seem to listen to community anymore, but some things are actually improving, others got weirder ever since initial early release

[mr.devolver]

Pre A17 the recent reviews on steam were mixed. Post A17 they are very positive.

 

I mean... I'm not sure what proof you have that most people hate it besides a few loudmouths on the forums, but to me it seems like its doing great.

 

Besides a few loudmouths? Remember it's the old players you're talking about. They are also players with the right to express their opinion and that didn't come cheap for some of them, they brought new customers to these developers, some of them purchased not just one but several copies, so showing them some respect is more appropriate than dismissing them and calling them loudmouths, because it was also with their financial support that it was made possible for developers to create this game.

[giKoN]

And if you actually take the time to read through those ratings, you will find that there are oh too many people with good reviews "waiting for a17 release" or with so few hours that they likely didn't find out to opt into latest experimental. I would be very careful.

 

Rated as good examples:

 

Sorry for quoting my own post. However, if you actually try to focus on reviews mentioning A17 directly, I feel like you get a far more negative picture. Of course this might be biased by negative reviews indicating what broke the game for them more explicitly. But it's still something to dig into.