Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[ParadiseLostUK]

as fun as keeping up with the dev diary can be, I'm going to watch Game of Thrones now as there's less bile and conflict...

[crazywildfire]

This is also on the first page:

 

+Strength Attribute affects inventory size 7/24/18

 

So it sounds like it doesn't sound like a Perk you have to spend points on. I assume your strength will go up as you play the game?

 

I guess I don't know. Could be but then again Roland just said when you purchase it. That still could go either way you don't have to purchase and it goes up naturally or you have to purchase. I don't know I can't see it so at this point am only guessing at how it is going to work. Only few know the details of how it works as of now and the rest of us can only guess at this point.

[Gnomaana]

I guess I don't know. Could be but then again Roland just said when you purchase it. That still could go either way you don't have to purchase and it goes up naturally or you have to purchase. I don't know I can't see it so at this point am only guessing at how it is going to work. Only few know the details of how it works as of now and the rest of us can only guess at this point.

 

He typed that as I was typing. Lol. So it does sound like a Perk.

[crazywildfire]

He typed that as I was typing. Lol. So it does sound like a Perk.

 

Yeah, I do I see what you was saying and was thinking that but I don't know. Either way looks like I was way off on how many it will unlock. Guess I was hoping it be one of those that o ly had 2 or 3 perks attached to unlock. But looks like of it is one or two at a time it will be one of those that have 10 or something. Oh well I guess. It seems it really is going to be hard choices to what to spend points on come A17 lol.

[Tearstone]

If you need more exp per level a person could just min/max exp and the game would end up not being much harder.

 

An average person is not going to become the clone of Bruce Lee, Macgyver and Chuck Norris in three months like your average 7D2D character. So, not being as super powered, is the only fun way I can think of to make the game harder.

 

You'd be surprised at how fast people can advance in a skillset when they don't have the distraction of job, spouse, offspring, social and or professional obligations.

 

Consider that a self defense class lasts six weeks to three months. Typically the class meets for one to three hours once or twice a week. Well call it 4 hours a week. That's 24 hours, for one that's only 6 weeks long. For 4 months (A semester) it's 48 hours. 48 hours of training to make someone decently competent at defending themselves.

 

This includes technique, discussion and theory, as well as drills and sparring. Maybe some realistic simulation training for the really good ones. Put you in a realistic space, and go about as hard as they can short of killing you, to make your adrenaline spike, and help you ride it out, and maintain your head/senses. No panic, keep from getting tunnel vision.

 

That's weeks, if not months of classes.

 

But YOU are living in a survival situation. It's constantly fight or flight. Constantly assessing the space around you. There are no rules. Just kill or be killed. There is no substitute for real experience. And you're in it twenty four hours a day, seven days a week, three hundred and sixty-five days a year. By day two you have killed plenty of 'people'. Lets say you, in theory, sleep for 8 hours each day (not likely) that's 16 hours a day where you're on the alert.

 

And if fighting is crucial to survival, its going to be on your mind ALL the time. You're in a heightened state all the time. You're ready all the time. And you know how to not get hit pretty quick. You know when and how to take a hit. You know when and how to hit back and where. And you get better and better at it pretty fast.

 

Let's say you spend only 8 hours per day fighting. In 3 days you have caught up to the chucklehead in a basic self defense class, but the training is far more intense. In 6 days, you've caught up to someone in an intensive class, and the training is still more intense.

 

Now lets say we expand this to include martial artists. Same numbers 4 hours per week in class. Lets say they train two more hours a week outside of that. So 6 hours. And lets say it takes 7 years to gain black belt (one year per rank,.. averages). Thats 2184 hours of training. Thats 273 survival days, but the training is way more intense. A little over 136 days if you spend 16 hours a day at it. 109 if you spend every waking moment, with only four hours of sleep. I know of some schools that you can attain such a rank in only a year or two, which is 312 or 624 hours. Which you can achieve in a few weeks in game.

 

You certainly could be Chuck Norris or Bruce Lee. And that doesn't take into account time spent with firearms, as well as scrounging and/or building.

 

I don't think that advancement is particularly unfair or unachievable. In a world like this you move well, or die. Sub par, or sub standard gets you killed. You do your best or you die. That means you progress skills as fast as you can. Every mistake might kill you.

[Gnomaana]

This is not a "modern game" which would be designed to hand you all the content there is within 6-10 hours or playtime. Then you uninstall the game and never look back.

 

This game here has an old school vibe where you can play the game differently... if you restart and take another route.

 

 

 

Picking a class at the start of the game is also old school... but not the good kind. LOL

You would be making that decision without any solid knowledge of how this class will end up playing.

We choose to go with "limited points" so you get the same degree of specialisation that a "class" would give you... but you can grow into what you like best.

 

 

 

Yes. The reason is called "gameplay".

You make a decision and you commit to it.

 

And yes, people want "realistic" attachments because they are already trying to game the system, switching attachments from weapon to weapon to always have optimal power with each one.

It's okay if you want to game the system... but TFP may game back.

 

I agree with most of this but that last part may be a bit unfair. Not everyone that wants removable attachments wants them for that reason. I want removable but not so I can reuse that attachment as much as so I can put on a better version of the same attachment. Or can I already put a new scope on a rifle in place of the scope I found on day 2?

[konrax]

This is not a "modern game" which would be designed to hand you all the content there is within 6-10 hours or playtime. Then you uninstall the game and never look back.

 

This game here has an old school vibe where you can play the game differently... if you restart and take another route.

 

 

 

Picking a class at the start of the game is also old school... but not the good kind. LOL

You would be making that decision without any solid knowledge of how this class will end up playing.

We choose to go with "limited points" so you get the same degree of specialisation that a "class" would give you... but you can grow into what you like best.

 

 

 

Yes. The reason is called "gameplay".

You make a decision and you commit to it.

 

And yes, people want "realistic" attachments because they are already trying to game the system, switching attachments from weapon to weapon to always have optimal power with each one.

It's okay if you want to game the system... but TFP may game back.

 

I honestly loved the idea that removing an attachment may destroy the weapon. It gives you the option to do so, at the risk of having nothing after. (Maybe give the removed attachment 100% chance to not be destroyed, while the remainder have a chance to be destroyed?)

 

Secondly I would just like to point out that I would really love to see realistic bullet physics in the game, I know that it really isn't a major priority, but I think the REWARD for appealing to the players that would appreciate this feature, far outweighs the risk of the time/effort to implement this feature.

 

For example: PUBG (Player Unknowns Battleground) has a very complex system for bullet physics and it is one of the biggest reasons the game was popular and successful. Yes you can debate parts of it, but that one aspect made it one of the most interesting sniper games I've played in a long time. In fact I gave up on the shooter genre for good since Counter Strike Source and my days in in the competitive scene, but pubg brought me back because it brought a lot of depth to that genre that has been lacking it severely.

 

In all honesty, 7 days has some wonderful elements to it, but I think it could be an absolutely fantastic multiplayer experience with a few SIMPLE changes, like the above mentioned bullet physics, that would appeal to MANY MANY players.

[Roland]

I agree with most of this but that last part may be a bit unfair. Not everyone that wants removable attachments wants them for that reason. I want removable but not so I can reuse that attachment as much as so I can put on a better version of the same attachment. Or can I already put a new scope on a rifle in place of the scope I found on day 2?

 

Guns are craftable in A17. Simply craft a new gun for your better attachment. You can't put an attachment in place of another.

 

EDIT: Looks like I'm wrong about that per Gazz below...

[crazywildfire]

This is not a "modern game" which would be designed to hand you all the content there is within 6-10 hours or playtime. Then you uninstall the game and never look back.

 

This game here has an old school vibe where you can play the game differently... if you restart and take another route.

 

I hope you was just sayin this in general and not directing this towards me. If towards me not sure you read everything else around this. Because this wasn't a serious statement it was a joke that was based on what was being said at the time.

 

I can't even remember lol. Was this where I was talking about something and using this part as example? I don't even know anymore. I been up all night working about to go to bed now lol.

[Roland]

I honestly loved the idea that removing an attachment may destroy the weapon. It gives you the option to do so, at the risk of having nothing after.

 

Guns will be craftable in A17 so destroying the gun is not much of a loss if you get to keep the attachment.

[Roland]

You can replace mods on an item. You just can't take them back out.

(We wouldn't put in a weapon mod system where the weapons block the use of mods. That would be dumb. =P)

 

So the old attachment that got replaced ends up with all the bottles after drinking water....?

[Seaside]

I prefer my zombies old school, easy to kill with a headshot, near unkillable otherwise, thou you can disable them to the point they can't even move by blowing arms and legs off. I really with 7dtd zombies were more numerious but also had alot less health than they do, but body/arm/leg shots only do 20% of your normal dmg. I mean the zombies aren't that great graphically, I really don't get how more can't be spawned. Dying light zombies, can take a few melee headshots, but one gunshot or arrow to the head puts most of them down instantly. I'm also not a big fan of these tanky enemies. Alot of devs mistake higher health=diffculty. When in reality it just makes it tedious. I got used to it, but a gunshot to the head should put most zombies down on nomad diffculty.

 

I agree !

[Tearstone]

I honestly loved the idea that removing an attachment may destroy the weapon. It gives you the option to do so, at the risk of having nothing after. (Maybe give the removed attachment 100% chance to not be destroyed, while the remainder have a chance to be destroyed?)

 

Secondly I would just like to point out that I would really love to see realistic bullet physics in the game, I know that it really isn't a major priority, but I think the REWARD for appealing to the players that would appreciate this feature, far outweighs the risk of the time/effort to implement this feature.

 

For example: PUBG (Player Unknowns Battleground) has a very complex system for bullet physics and it is one of the biggest reasons the game was popular and successful. Yes you can debate parts of it, but that one aspect made it one of the most interesting sniper games I've played in a long time. In fact I gave up on the shooter genre for good since Counter Strike Source and my days in in the competitive scene, but pubg brought me back because it brought a lot of depth to that genre that has been lacking it severely.

 

In all honesty, 7 days has some wonderful elements to it, but I think it could be an absolutely fantastic multiplayer experience with a few SIMPLE changes, like the above mentioned bullet physics, that would appeal to MANY MANY players.

 

I would love to see bullet physics too. I dunno how well they could implement it though. The weapon with the longest range in the game is only 200 meters or blocks. And that's the crossbow. Not the hunting rifle or the sniper rifle. The hunting rifle maxes out at 160 with a base range of 96. (Yet it cant seem to hit anything beyond 20 blocks/meters, at least reliably, even though the game model says it's a Remington 700 which is the civilian version of the M40 sniper rifle the U.S. Army used until the M110 came around. You should be able to hit something reliably at 300 meters with iron sights. 500 with a basic hunting scope.

 

The sniper rifle reaches out to 160 blocks. That's it. Real world range is 1000 meters with a skilled/practiced shooter.

 

The short range of numbers is because LOD as well as chunk loading keeps things much closer in for those kinds of weapons. In game you cant 'see' that far, and if you did, you'd have to deal with an even heftier processor and RAM load.

 

SO... for a voxel game like this which is more simulation heavy and requires more computation than being more graphically driven... It's a lot to ask from the engine and the hardware running it. It would be *nice* but until the MIDAS optical processors hit the open market and are viable for the average consumer (assuming that's still happening)... there's no way we can really expect that... for 7 Days To Die.

 

 

I agree !

 

Agreed. +1

[Viktoriusiii]

And yes, people want "realistic" attachments because they are already trying to game the system, switching attachments from weapon to weapon to always have optimal power with each one.

It's okay if you want to game the system... but TFP may game back.

 

This is so insulting I dont even know how to respond...

TFPs set up a system... and now WE THE PLAYERS have to decide what features we can use without offending our lords?

 

I dont want to game the system. I want the system to make sense.

Simple:

decrease spawnrate

make mods stackable (better scope, bigger or brighter laser, bigger magazine)

make vendors buy them at high prices, make them quest objectives, make them quality dependant, make them breakable (not or only partially repairable)

 

those are ideas that have come to my mind WHILE WRITING this... and all of those have absolutly no conflict with lore, realism or immersion.

They even add to it AND give you infinite value for every following attachment.

 

I don't care if its 100x harder to find mods... I just dont want to be ripped out of my immersion, just because they thought it would increase gameplay.

 

There is such a thing as "suspension of disbelief". That doesn't mean "do whatever you want! I'll buy it!"

It means "look. I understand not everything can be made realisticly because of the limitations of the soft/hardware. Please do your best to make me feel like I am part of this world"

 

Meaning things that are possible can be expanded (you can carry heavy stuff in reallife... in game you can carry even more heavy stuff, because there are no tracktors, no cranes and other transportationmethods ingame to handle these huge amounts)

it does not mean: "well Ill simply add a character trait "flying" where you can simply grow wings in an instant and fly across the map, even though this is supposed to be close to reallife"

 

How do you not get these simple concepts and start accusing others of exploiting a system, especially if you don't even know them.

 

I havent dug a spiketrench around my base in forever, since its exploitative.

I have never camped on the rooftop of a big building because I know zombies are too stupid.

I haven't logged off on hordenight for at least 3-4 Alphas.

 

What else do I have to do for you to accept that I simply want immersion, rather then something illogical only for the reason of "it enhances gameplay... somehow... even though there are a million other, less retarded ways to do it"

 

I dislike the change to spending skillpoints as well... because I feel the dynamic quality improvement was awesome and simply needed to be tweaked to make spamcrafting unviable. (I have actually given MULTIPLE solutions back in the day of how to do that with very minor tweaks... but was simply insulted as "spamcrafter" since noone actually read my thread and only the title)

 

It is super frustrating how seemingly everyone is playing singleplayer and EXPECT others to play the same.

XML edits are only for singleplayer or for communities. Solo players wont find any servers with their xml edits.

 

 

 

but i mean... nobody cares... everyone just whacks on every criticism brought up... and just reinforce my opinion of this forum...

 

the only people halfway decent are the people in pimp dreams and roland... even though he also has a habit of playing whack-a-madmolecriticiser

[art1336]

There's the real difficulty setting right there!

 

Keep the 200 levels as is, but have a difficulty level option at game start.

 

Easy mode is +2 skills per level,

Hard is -2,

Insane is you gain 1 skill point per level, dead is dead.

 

You're welcome.

 

Playing till day one thousand and maxxing everything out....

Yeah. Been there on a server, done that, and let me tell you.

It.

Is.

Teh.

Sux.

[n2n1]

Now is the time to release A17!!!

 

[meganoth]

Huh... I already did that... weird how I knew this even years back that criticism isn't handled very well.

 

Huh? What did you expect? That everyone agrees with you? This is a **discussion** forum, obviously people who disagree will post their opinions.

 

XML edits are only for singleplayer or for communities. Solo players wont find any servers with their xml edits.

 

If your ideas were shared by many others there would be mods available and servers that host these mods. Should make you think.

[art1336]

Because its such an absurd question for the normal casual Player that doesnt happen to be an programmer and who want to change the settings in the option-Screen like a normal guy that plays a normal game.

 

You have a lot of good opinions brought in, but sometimes you and certain others show a really high horse attitude.

 

Well, to be fair, you "can" change the game settings in the option screen like a normal guy. And the little less than normal guys who know more about programming can make mods that do things that are not actually game options but the game itself.

Example: You can change the number of zombies. You can make them strong or weak. You can take them out entirely. It's a zombie game.

But what you can't do is change all of the zombies into space aliens, because it is not a space alien game. But a modder could put space aliens in. Which are not a standard game option, much like everything else people want to put in the options menu.

They are not game options; they are alterations to the game that run contrary to what the game actually is.

[Gnomaana]

You can replace mods on an item. You just can't take them back out.

(We wouldn't put in a weapon mod system where the weapons block the use of mods. That would be dumb. =P)

 

The weapon wouldn't be blocking the mod. The non-removable mod I put on earlier would be. I see not being able to replace it as the logical extension of making them not removable. The fact you can replace them but not remove them is, if anything, even more immersion breaking.

 

By the way, I don't think of this as a big deal. I'm just bored at work and this is an interesting discussion. So, please don't lump me in with the "OMG, YOU RUINED MY GAME" crowd.

[Tearstone]

I expect I'm probably going to get flamed for this, under the heading of "stupid question". It falls under the Death Penalty though, since it's a hot topic of discussion ITT ATM.

 

You respawn when you die. Do you respawn during a Blood Moon, or are you dead-dead?

 

Cuz if you still respawn then.... *looks at the name of the game* Wouldn't it just be 7 Days to Respawn? (lol, sorry that last part just came to me as I was typing)

 

The point, though, is to survive the hordes. And this was just an idle concept that popped into my head. It's never been a horde on a blood moon night that has killed me. It's always been getting mobbed when I was out doing something, and the geeks caught me at jsut the right time. Or I got swarmed by dogs at a bad moment. Or something like that. Never the blood moon hordes.

[art1336]

As a person, who lives in a country with strict gun laws - I am certainly fascinated by them although I might not own them ever on my own.

 

I want a large selection of weapons and ammo types in games. I like variety. Maybe not the COD type with a plethora of weapons with the same killing potential, but sounding different.

 

Pistols :

 

Low damage, great recoil and fire rate with easily found ammunition (22.lr's)

 

Medium damage with mediocre recoil or fire rate (9mm or 45.ACP)

 

High damage with heavy recoil and fire rate (357. , 50 AE)

 

With the introduction of mods You can change upgrade the pistols (Increased damage for the light damage pistols)

 

Since this is an 'Murican game - when are we getting LEVER ACTION RIFLES!?!

 

We have the hunting rifle.

[beerfly]

Now is the time to release A17!!!

 

 

Prepare for a horde, The Training has began.

[Tearstone]

We have the hunting rifle.

 

 

and

 

[The Batman]

Yes, there's a giant bloodmoon!!!! I'm already placing wood spikes. Pls send help.

 

"best time for release" hint hint cough