Overhaul True Survival

[Spider]

Thank you for absolutely no help xyth rofl

 

I ask "What weapons should they have?" you answer "I think they should have weapons" come on! lol

[xyth]

Thank you for absolutely no help xyth rofl

 

I ask "What weapons should they have?" you answer "I think they should have weapons" come on! lol

 

To be clear:

 

1. No guns on either, melee weapons only is my first choice.

2. Unless they drop melee weapons, it doesn't matter to me what they carry cause I'm going to make sure they don't hit me. Only caution is giving them melee weapons with a very long reach, like the sledge, as they already have a good hand range as it is.

[Darkstardragon]

Omg, i just typed a lengthy response to this and it didnt save cause i wasnt logged in arrrrrrr. So now ill give you the short version: The weapons work fine, both ranged and melee with the custom ai tasks and buffs youve given both the followers and bandits. I plan on making a wide variety of both npcs for the update with sdx weapons as well. Need more melee types cause only spiked club and machete are in right now while every gun type except the rocket launcher is represented(for obvious reasons lol). And xyth, as far as any other experiences youve had with the npcs, its not the same in true survival, the bandits currently only spawn at one poi(prison) with hopefully a few other wilderness pois in the future and as mentioned above their ai tasks are vastly improved from some additions spider has made to the xmls. They actually shoot/hit crawlers now as well, which was a huge issue with them before.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Darkstardragon (see edit history)

[Darkstardragon]

Nooo, I want followers with guns too!

 

I hear you brother!

[tilarium]

Just to not be helpful while trying to be helpful. Not only do followers with guns still run up to melee range while shooting, they also don't seem to attack crawlers. If you can get the running to melee thing worked out and squashed then I'd say have Gabriel with a sniper rifle. I can't speak on bandits because I've never played any other that introduced them in and wouldn't know what their strengths and weaknesses are.

[xyth]

Ok, ok. I'm fine with guns, as long as the bandits are improved so they don't autofire non-stop at max range so you get hit several times before you even know they are around. If you play "dead means dead" then you become a tad cautious about aspect of the game that will kill you without you even getting a chance to respond.

 

On the topic of bandits and followers, I think it would be more realistic if you couldnt tell which was which until you got into reaction range. If your a fan of the apocalypse genre, you know humans are far more dangerous than zombies, and you seldom know if the survivors are hostile or friendly until you approach them. So here are my thoughts for the next version.

 

1. Use the same survivor archtypes for both followers and bandits. Maybe change something small like hair style or mask type to allow bandit identification only at close range. Make most highly territorial, and only a few wanderers (scouts or lost souls)

 

2. Give them all the guns you want as long as they do similar crap damage on body hits that we do to them. Make them struggle to land a head shot on a fast moving target like we get to do.

 

3. Once sleeper code is available, either from Starvation or Pimps, use that for both types when placed at POIs.

[Darkstardragon]

Ok, ok. I'm fine with guns, as long as the bandits are improved so they don't autofire non-stop at max range so you get hit several times before you even know they are around. If you play "dead means dead" then you become a tad cautious about aspect of the game that will kill you without you even getting a chance to respond.

 

On the topic of bandits and followers, I think it would be more realistic if you couldnt tell which was which until you got into reaction range. If your a fan of the apocalypse genre, you know humans are far more dangerous than zombies, and you seldom know if the survivors are hostile or friendly until you approach them. So here are my thoughts for the next version.

 

1. Use the same survivor archtypes for both followers and bandits. Maybe change something small like hair style or mask type to allow bandit identification only at close range. Make most highly territorial, and only a few wanderers (scouts or lost souls)

 

2. Give them all the guns you want as long as they do similar crap damage on body hits that we do to them. Make them struggle to land a head shot on a fast moving target like we get to do.

 

3. Once sleeper code is available, either from Starvation or Pimps, use that for both types when placed at POIs.

 

If im not mistaken, the bandits in true survival will never be random biome spawns, and the followers will be extremely rare and weak when in the wild. Spider has plans to include higher tier survivors that you can rescue with quests in the future. ie locked in a poi surrounded by zombies or bandits and have to be freed- these would have more hp, better weps etc. Def a cool idea to make some of the bandits and followers appear similar, but again, they would have to be biome spawns and i dont think thats what spider wants out of the bandits. For myself, i want to see groups of military and police survivors, maybe some good, some bad. Def something i can add if spider is ok with it. In the next week or two im gonna introduce some of these npcs to the server. Oh, and the bandits are supposed to be a challenge for higher level players, not something to gank newbs with.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Darkstardragon (see edit history)

[jprasch]

Hello Spider. Regarding followers I am really hoping that eventually we will be able to give them weapons to use. State of Decay really is a good model for NPCs. If you took an NPC on a mission they would mirror your combat approach. They would only use melee weapons until you pulled out your gun and started shooting they would then also pull out a gun. NPCs would man guard towers and only shoot Zs who got too close. Cool it was to be running toward my base with zombies chasing me, seeing Zs getting shot around me by my tower guard. I prefer 7DTD over SOD but that game did a lot of things worth stealing.

 

Thanks to Spider and everyone who answers my noob questions on this board I appreciate it.

[Darkstardragon]

Hello Spider. Regarding followers I am really hoping that eventually we will be able to give them weapons to use. State of Decay really is a good model for NPCs. If you took an NPC on a mission they would mirror your combat approach. They would only use melee weapons until you pulled out your gun and started shooting they would then also pull out a gun. NPCs would man guard towers and only shoot Zs who got too close. Cool it was to be running toward my base with zombies chasing me, seeing Zs getting shot around me by my tower guard. I prefer 7DTD over SOD but that game did a lot of things worth stealing.

 

Thanks to Spider and everyone who answers my noob questions on this board I appreciate it.

 

Mortelentus has made a survivor interface for their starvation mod so perhaps this may be possible in the future, well have to wait and see. But i wouldnt hold my breath for this to ever be an option.

[Spider]

Thought about some of ya'lls comments about the gating of the Tech Skills. Though its not my play style I understand what your saying. So how about we do the gating like this

 

Journeyman Crafting starting recipes require Player level 30

Mastercraftsman Crafting starting recipes require Player level 75

 

Player Max Level is 200 fyi

 

That would still require playing the game but not require grinding of things your don't want.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Spider (see edit history)

[xyth]

Thought about some of ya'lls comments about the gating of the Tech Skils. Though its not my play style I understand what your saying. So how about we do the gating like this

 

Journeyman Crafting starting recipes require Player level 30

Mastercraftsman Crafting starting recipes require Player level 75

 

Player Max Level is 200 fyi

 

That would still require playing the game but not require grinding of things your don't want.

 

I like this much better than the double gate.

[xyth]

I hope you will consider adding something like Carlzillas unarmed SDX mod at some point to your mod. Its still 0.6.0 version, though. I think it might be possible to edit it down not to use his stances but rather use your 2 attack types and the double hit when using both. That would equate to 3 attack types which is more than enough. The double hit isn't an issue as it deplete stamina rapidly, which is dangerous in close combat.

 

This probably isnt something for the next release, but consider it added to the wishlist (along with three08's teleporter mod) .

[Spider]

HA HA!

three08's teleporter mod

 

You still don't know me very well lol

[unlike them]

So how about we do the gating like this

 

Journeyman Crafting starting recipes require Player level 30

Mastercraftsman Crafting starting recipes require Player level 75

 

Player Max Level is 200 fyi

 

That would still require playing the game but not require grinding of things your don't want.

 

Before I have an opinion about this, I'd like to see the details. All I found was:

 

1- Change Wood, Stone, Iron, Steel Working to Primitive Crafting, Journeyman Crafting, Adept Crafting and Master Craftsman. Crafting Items will be divided by what section of the game you should be crafting it.(Primitive being the start of the game and Master Craftsman being end game)

 

My concern for this system is I don't see the motivation to specialize, like currently if I want to unlock 'forged iron' I plan to level certain skills and build my gameplay around it. In the new system the goal is just your character level, so you pick the skills that grow fastest and concentrate around those. Ideally I'd love to see a 'tech tree' like in many RPG or stategy games where you would have to specialize.

 

Simplify crafting XP. Each crafting stage (Primitive,Journeyman,Adept,Master Craftsman) will have 3 levels of crafting XP 5xp/10xp/20xp. Item XP will be determined by the complexity of the crafting ingredients or the quantity.

 

Currently our Material Crafting Skills(Wood,Stone,Iron,Steel) start at 120XP per level with a 2.2% increases with each level making level 100 cost 1,121XP. I want to change that to start at 150XP per level with a 1.94% increases per level and level 100 cost 1,005XP. I want to expand this XP curve to other other Crafting Skills like Medicine, Engineering, Miscellaneous and Gun Smithing.

 

Maybe I am wrong, but does it mean that to level Primitive Crafting and Medicine will require the same amount of time? Because we gonna have many recipes for 'Primitive Crafting' and gonna spend a big chunk of our playtime levelling that, which makes sense. But to spend the same amount of time for the 'Medicine' skill, and to craft the amount of bandages equal to amount of planks for example, is wrong.

[Spider]

@unlike them-

You would still be specializing in what you spent time leveling in but with it this way you could pick what you wanted to level instead of what was required to get what you wanted.

 

Yes Primitive and Medicine will have the same xp amounts. But Primitive Crafting will not be needed much in mid to late game. It will be Club, Bows, Stone Tools, Wood, Cobble, Redwood Blocks stuff like that. With Primitive Crafting having more items to craft it will be a quicker easier task to level also each Tech Skill will have a Tool that will upgrade its blocks and lower tech blocks but not higher tech level blocks. Each Tool will give XP towards that Tech Skill. So the Hammer will upgrade wood to Metal Reinforced Wood Blocks but not to Scrap Iron Blocks. Using the hammer will give Primitive Crafting XP not Engineering. This will be done for each so Journeyman Crafting will use the Wrench and it will upgrade all Primitive Crafting Blocks and all Journeyman Crafting Blocks but not be able to upgrade to Steel, it will give Journeyman XP.

 

With Medicine not having as many things to craft it will be something you spend all game leveling.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Spider (see edit history)

[unlike them]

Ok I trust you know what you doing, you haven't failed my expectations yet

[Spider]

Need opinions to help set up and balance the new professions. I intend for Professions to not be as powerful as they are now but more specialized. We have four options for balancing.

 

1-A Profession can start the player with changed stats, either increasing them or decreasing them. The adjustable stats are-

 

Treasure Radius, Breath Hold Duration, Count, Crafting Time, Crafting Quality, Crafting Output Count, Repair Time, Repair Amount, Repair Quality Loss, Entity Damage, Block Damage, Ranged Falloff, Reload Speed, Armor Defense, Max Health, Max Stamina, Max Hunger, Max Thirst, Min Wellness, Max Wellness, Wellness Gain, Wellness Reduction, Health Gain, Stamina Gain, Thirst Degradation, Health Degradation, Stamina Degradation, Max Speed, Walk Speed, Run Speed, Loot Time, Loot Quality, Harvest Count, Crouch Speed, Noise e, Smell, Hunger Degradation, Dismemberment Chance, Dismemberment Bonus, Bartering, Secret Stash

 

2-A Profession can start knowing locked recipes

 

3-A Profession can start with adjusted skills like a Doctor could start with +5 Medicine. The adjustable skills are-

 

Hunting, Heavy Guns, Blunt Weapons, Blade Weapons, Pistols, Shotguns, Rifles, Archery, Light Armor, Heavy Armor, Gun Smiting, Engineering, Tailoring, Leatherworking, Armor Smiting, Primitive Crafting, Journeyman Crafting, Master Craftsman, Miscellaneous Crafting.

 

4-All Professions will start with a set of Tattered Cloths. Each will also start with a special item that relates to their profession. Such as the Cop starting with an “Old Pistol” that only shoots 9mm and cannot be repaired or the Doctor starting with a bottle of Pain Killers.

 

Each Profession does not require skills/items from each option. Only the starting special item is going to be required for each. So a Profession can have a bunch of stat increases but no recipes or a bunch of recipes and no stat increase. Here is the new Profession list-

 

Farmer, Fisherman, Chef, Cop, Soldier, Chemist, Doctor, Fitness Instructor, Fireman, Construction Worker, Carpenter, Electrician, Metal Worker, Burglar, Park Ranger.

 

Don’t be shy I want to hear your ideas just don’t get upset if they don’t get all used.

[unlike them]

Are those changed stats (Block damage, Run speed, Max health etc) exceed normal throughout the game? Or are those just starting bonuses? I mean, if my profession has this max health bonus, am I able to have more than 250 health with maxed wellnes/perks? Sounds cool. But will we be able to learn other professions eventually?

[Spider]

@unlike them-

Yes. No. Yes. Yes

[xyth]

Ok, taking a shot. One starter item each related to profession (like you said), one major bonus and 1 minor bonus each:

 

Class

Farmer - Harvest count, food recipe

Fisherman - Harvest count (can you increase fish catch probability?) , food recipe for fish

Chef - Exclusive recipes (uber) , smell

Cop - Pistols, doughnut recipe

Soldier - Heavy guns, armor defense

Chemist - ?

Doctor - +5 med, medical recipe

Fitness Instructor - Stamina regain, Max stamina

Fireman - Seriously? Fireman? Climbing speed ;-)

Construction Worker - block damage, repair time

Carpenter - primitive bonus, repair time

Electrician - I question this one as his material is journeyman and no longer gated by skill. maybe special recipes...

Metal Worker - I question this one as his material is journeyman and no longer gated by skill. maybe special recipes...

Burglar - Loot quality,loot time

Park Ranger - Ranged falloff, crouch speed

 

My assumption on what a Major/minor bonus might be has little basis except usability in the current system.

[Spider]

@xyth-

Now that's a suggestion. Thank you very much.

[Spider]

Profession Stats Increase Early Recipes Late Recipes Starting Points Item

• Farmer---None---All Seeds, Seed Books, Seed Nursery, Stone Hoe---Fertilizer, Iron Hoe---Hunting5---Old Hoe
  
• Fisherman---None---Fishing Pole, Fish Recipes---Nice Fishing Pole, All Lures---Hunting5---Old Knife
  
• Chef---None---All Food Recipes, Sharpening Stone---Sharpening Stone--- Bladed Weapons 5---Old Knife
  
• Cop---Dismemberment Chance/Bonus, Reload Speed---Knight Stick---Weapon Repair, Gun Oil, Pistol---Pistols 5---Old Pistol
  
• Soldier---Dismemberment Chance/Bonus, Reload Speed---Grubs, Blunderbuss, Blunderbuss Ammo, Plate Mine---Weapon Repair, Gun Oil, AK47, Pipe Bomb ---Rifles 5---??
  
• Chemist---None---Stim, Red Bull---Gunpowder, Biofuel, Oil Shale, Mixed Chemicals, Oil, Fire Shells and Book---Engineering5---Bottle of Stims
  
• Doctor---None---Antibiotics, Painkillers,Doctor Shots, First Aid Kits, Aloe Cream, Bandages--- Super Pill---Medician5 ---Bottle of Painkillers
  
• Fitness Instructor---Max Stamina, Stamina Degradation, Max Speed, Hold Breath Duration---Red Bull, Teas ---Wellness Juice---Athletic5---??
  
• Fireman---Block Damage, Max Stamina---Aloe Cream---Iron Axe, Steel Axe---Medicine 5---Old Axe
  
• Construction Worker---Block Damage---None---Scrap Iron Block, Wrench---Engineering 5---old Wrench
  
• Carpenter---crafting time, Harvest Count---Wood Blocks, Hammer,Planks---None---Engineering5---Old Hammer
  
• Electrician---Harvest Count, crafting time, Repair Quality Loss---Screwdriver, Shocks Stick---Powered Lights, electronic parts, electric parts, Shock Bullets---Engineering 5---old Wrench
  
• Metal Worker ---Block Damage---Forge---Rebar Blocks, Welder, Mechanical Parts---Engineering5---old Wrench
  
• Burglar---loot time, noise, crouch speed, treasure radius---lock pick, Steak knife---None---Scavaging5---Lock Picks
  
• Park Ranger---None---Bear Trap, Stone Spear, Spikes---Hunting Rifle, Herbal Antibiotic---Primitive Crafting 5---Old Rifle
  

Edited January 5, 2017 by Spider (see edit history)

[tilarium]

The new professions looks good to me. I almost always take cop right now, but I think I'll switch over to park ranger. I only play solo, so I took cop as it seemed the most versatile in the long run. Of course, I also play dead is dead and rarely get to the long run.

[unlike them]

Depending on how big those bonuses are, I like the Fitness Instructor. I had my share of running in TS, and stamina is useful throughout the game. Good for a lone survivor, but not much helpful for teammates.

[Guppycur]

This mod is really coming together; I've been following it with interest.