Version 1.0 (Alpha 22) Dev Diary

[Zombiepoptard]

I'm amazed at the talent to whip up a essay like this in such little time. 

43 minutes ago, Riamus said:

The sandbox argument is used frequently about just about any change that players don't like.  The thing is, this game is only a partial sandbox game unless you play with creative mode enabled.  It still has rules and requirements, making it not a true sandbox game unless you're bypassing those by using creative mode.  And in creative mode, you can give yourself whatever magazines you want as far as this particular comment goes, or whatever else you want for any other comments that refer to it being a sandbox game.

 

As far as magazines go, the initial feedback from most players was negative.  That is pretty common for any changes to this game.  But if you watch the comments about magazines from that point until today, you'll see a shift in what people think.  Yes, some people still don't like them and that will never change for those people.  However, many (perhaps most) of the people who initially complained about them are now making comments that they aren't that bad and they've gotten used to them or they've grown on them or whatever similar type of phrasing is used.  As people get used to a new change, many who initially opposed the change (people tend not to like change) will start to not mind it or even like it because it's no longer new.  This is true for any change unless the change is actually bad.  You can tell if a change really is bad if you don't see this shift in perception over time... from lots of posts about how bad it is to those same people saying it's not bad after a few months of getting used to the change.  If everyone still thinks it's bad after a few months, then it's probably a really bad change and should be fixed.

 

My own point of view on magazines is this... 

 

I enjoyed the old method of randomly finding schematics because it made each game different.  I might get something really great in the early game one game and then the next game not get it until late game.  I enjoyed the randomness of that.  Magazines streamline it so that you always get everything in the same order.  The only randomness is how quickly you get it based on getting magazines in a random order.

 

Now, that's talking about things that were schematics.  For things that were tied to perks instead of schematics (there really weren't a lot of those compared to those tied to schematics), you used to be able to get whatever you wanted as quickly as you wanted by pushing perk points in a specific direction and you can't do that now.... though you can increase the speed you improve in a magazine by putting perk points in a specific direction, so it's still similar.  In the end, that part was already streamlined and hasn't really changed.  You just have to do it differently and you can't rush it as easily as before.  So for min/max players, it is worse.  For everyone else who isn't trying to speedrun the game, it is not really that much different.  I don't really care which method is used for those because I don't min/max everything.

 

I also think magazines keep people pigeonholed into certain specializations compared to how it was before.  In the past, anyone could learn anything in any order without having to worry about who got what.  Now, you want one person reading any given magazine until they've maxed it out, which prevents other players from being able to craft a given item until later in the game.  I'm not a fan of that part.  I enjoyed being able to craft anything that I've found schematics for right from the start of the game without having to wait until the person who is designated to read a specific magazine is finished with that magazine so I can start learning to do it myself.  That is really the only part of the magazines that I don't like.

 

But, although I liked the randomness of finding schematics and I liked not having to specialize in crafting, I still like the magazine system.  It could be improved, there's no doubt about that, but I still like it.

 

Actually, I feel that RNG is far less a factor now than it used to be.  Yes, magazines are RNG (to a point) for which ones you find, but you have far fewer different magazines than you used to have for schematics.  That makes finding a given magazine far easier than it used to be to find a given schematic.  Schematics were more RNG than magazines, because of that.  Think back to any rare schematic that you could find that is now part of a magazine path.  Yes, you might get lucky and find it early in one game, but in other games, it could take all game before you finally find it (that's RNG for you).  Now that it's in magazines, you won't get it early, but you will get it.  Even now, there are games where I am not finding schematics that are still in the game.  Especially many of the vehicle mod schematics, which are still very rare.  Sometimes I'll find them early, but there are games where I never find certain ones.  If those were part of the magazines, I'd never have to worry about it.  So it's far less RNG now than it used to be.

 

And just for reference, I do not put points into perks in a way that will maximize magazine collection.  I don't even focus on a given ability tree.  I'm pretty much a jack of all trades and will put points in whatever perks I like without regard to magazine collection.  Yet I still have little trouble finding the magazines I want to find.  More points help, that's true, but they aren't really required unless you're trying to rush things.  If you know where to look for specific magazines, it is easy to collect them regardless of perk points.  The ones that are harder to collect if you don't put points in are typically the weapon magazines, but most people are going to have points in their weapon(s) of choice anyhow, so they'll get a boost for the weapon(s) they use "automatically" and they don't need the magazines for other weapons they don't use anyhow.

 

 

 

I'm amazed at the talent to whip up a essay like this in such little time. 

 

I love the structure of 7 days to die from the questing to the buildings. I'm pro structure when it comes to giving the player stuff to do and having dungeon pois. I'm less so about taking the RPG system seriously. The players and myself seems to play this game in chunks never sticking to one save long term. Updates happen and you have to start the world over again. The RPG and progression has rubbed me the wrong way with how they group categories together. "Jack of all trades" is really how I'd like to play if the game made it less of a commitment to putting points into attributes. If they were leaning more into choice and dynamic feel I think the game would be better for it. They don't have enough interesting attributes to be have a structured skill tree. It does nothing for me to play it how the system wants me to play the game. 

 

I feel the same about magazines. All though I'm glad to hear that they made the bonus stronger I think it should be a lucky side bonus that grants an extra skill point. This game is a voxel sandbox adventure game with questing and structures that can be looted as well has base building horde survival. It's very open and freeing it would be best if they leaned into how dynamic it is and could be possibly making this game like a poi immersive sim. Joel says his plan was to make this game like fallout. Debatably an immersive sim if immersive sims were open world games. Making every poi have a dynamic immersive sim like quality and a more open RPG system would lend this game a more precise direction.  

[Grandpa Minion]

Now that enough time has passed with LATEST_EXPERIMENTAL... i am submitting the order for this experimental build to be moved to the Stable branch for all players to enjoy.

 

EXPECTATION:

A) Lastest_experimental version moved to stable branch immediately

B) All players combined immediately to one branch to increase overall population of all servers instead of players being split between 2 branchs

C) An update notice sent to the forum notifying everyone when this well happen

 

As an active long time player of 7d2d with over 20000 hours logged... i hereby place this order effective immediately.

 

[vergilsparda]

7 minutes ago, Grandpa Minion said:

Now that enough time has passed with LATEST_EXPERIMENTAL... i am submitting the order for this experimental build to be moved to the Stable branch for all players to enjoy.

 

EXPECTATION:

A) Lastest_experimental version moved to stable branch immediately

B) All players combined immediately to one branch to increase overall population of all servers instead of players being split between 2 branchs

C) An update notice sent to the forum notifying everyone when this well happen

 

As an active long time player of 7d2d with over 20000 hours logged... i hereby place this order effective immediately.

 

 

THREE YEARS OF PLAY TIME ? omg. you're the first person ive seen with a play time so high.

 

i know it's off topic, but how much of that is real game play time and how much is idle while doing other things (if it is, i mean no offense I just like to learn things!)

 

to keep on topic: is there any indication that the half-splat maps are going to be fixed in a future update? I haven't been keeping up, but I've been told that's whats causing gravel paths in my worlds to disappear unless i hit the terrain block they're on (then they show up). it makes finding wilderness POIs very difficult without a quest marker!

[Space4Ace]

10 minutes ago, Grandpa Minion said:

Now that enough time has passed with LATEST_EXPERIMENTAL... i am submitting the order for this experimental build to be moved to the Stable branch for all players to enjoy.

 

Too many bugs in the latest_experimental to call it stable. They need another build so we can test the latest fixes... And where are those new animals? (sorry, just talking to myself 😁)

[Riamus]

4 minutes ago, vergilsparda said:

to keep on topic: is there any indication that the half-splat maps are going to be fixed in a future update? I haven't been keeping up, but I've been told that's whats causing gravel paths in my worlds to disappear unless i hit the terrain block they're on (then they show up). it makes finding wilderness POIs very difficult without a quest marker!

Yeah, this definitely needs to be fixed.  The half splat files cause problems with roads that aren't very wide and for what reason?  I'd assume faster loading times or something, but if they cause these kinds of problems, faster loading times aren't worth the cost.

[Grandpa Minion]

2 hours ago, Space4Ace said:

Too many bugs in the latest_experimental to call it stable. 

The latest_experimental build = (current stable build + current fixs) which means the latest_experimental build is more stable than the current stable build.... What in the world makes any one so confused to think the current stable build is better than the latest_experimental build? This is exactly why players get confused. For the life of me i don't understand why anyone would be playing the stable build when the current experimental build is so much more stable.

[Space4Ace]

1 hour ago, Grandpa Minion said:

The latest_experimental build = (current stable build + current fixs) which means the latest_experimental build is more stable than the current stable build.... What in the world makes any one so confused to think the current stable build is better than the latest_experimental build? This is exactly why players get confused. For the life of me i don't understand why anyone would be playing the stable build when the current experimental build is so much more stable.

I am playing the latest_experimental build, not the stable one. And I'm still saying there's too many bugs to release the experimental as stable. We need another experimental build so we can... Eh, mmm... Experiment. 😁

[Javabean867]

So i am playing the latest experimental right now, and the world definitely feels more alive with Zombie spawns.  I keep on having to hop out of my base at night to handle the wanderers that just seem to gravitate towards my base.  I am honestly quite happy about this.  I get about the same amount of screamers coming in from stable, but the world does not feel empty anymore.  It almost feels like their senses have been extended, so maybe they are just wandering in from hearing me bang around in my base.

 

I didn't look at the notes for this experimental, so maybe this is old news lol.

[Brutus911]

On 9/16/2024 at 5:32 AM, Suxar said:

Is it definitely because of the vehicle? I've talked to several dedicated server owners, almost all of them have performance issues because of trees planted by players, but no one has issues because of the vehicle. Maybe you have some mods that conflict?

yes it is definitely because of the vehicle. As mentioned, when someone exits a vehicle, the concole as well as the clients console will show the warning. It does not happen as frequently in the V1.1 experimental where they applied the hot fix. Why they did not apply this same hot fix to 1.0 stable is baffling. However, Experimental is still not stable as we now see other issues such as servers freezing where players cannot use key e before realizing they game is frozen. We now experience at least one crash per day.

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Brutus911 said:

Why they did not apply this same hot fix to 1.0 stable is baffling.

 

Because what you propose is not the way software development is usually done. Any bug fix can introduce new bugs, sometimes worse bugs than the one they try to fix. This is why every fix is, if at all possible, tested first in a less widely distributed experimental before it is opened to everyone.

 

Also, a developer NEVER EVER makes two different software versions have the same version number. So even if that hot fix were tiny the new version would have gotten a name like 1.1 (as TFP seems not to use multiple minor numbers, i.e. as in 1.0.1)

 

Edited September 24 by meganoth (see edit history)

[bdubyah]

Oh look, Grandpa Minion had to come make a post talking about how many hours he has in the game again...

[Riamus]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Because what you propose is not the way software development is usually done. Any bug fix can introduce new bugs, sometimes worse bugs than the one they try to fix. This is why every fix is, if at all possible, tested first in a less widely distributed experimental before it is opened to everyone.

 

Also, a developer NEVER EVER makes two different software versions have the same version number. So even if that hot fix were tiny the new version would have gotten a name like 1.1 (as TFP seems not to use multiple minor numbers, i.e. as in 1.0.1)

 

Well, they did put out a 1.0 update after 1.1 EXP was out.  Not normal, but it did happen this time around.

[Suxar]

6 hours ago, Brutus911 said:

yes it is definitely because of the vehicle. As mentioned, when someone exits a vehicle, the concole as well as the clients console will show the warning. It does not happen as frequently in the V1.1 experimental where they applied the hot fix. Why they did not apply this same hot fix to 1.0 stable is baffling. However, Experimental is still not stable as we now see other issues such as servers freezing where players cannot use key e before realizing they game is frozen. We now experience at least one crash per day.

A warning is not an error. Well, the console shows a warning and shows it. As for the "E" button, this is packet loss, this is a question for your provider, not the game.

[meganoth]

5 hours ago, Riamus said:

Well, they did put out a 1.0 update after 1.1 EXP was out.  Not normal, but it did happen this time around.

 

Oops. You are right, but they called it "1.0 b336" so it got an incremental minor number attached

[Guppycur]

10 hours ago, bdubyah said:

Oh look, Grandpa Minion had to come make a post talking about how many hours he has in the game again...

Will to be fair, it is an impressive amount of time to let the game sit at the menu. 

[Grandpa Minion]

7 hours ago, Suxar said:

A warning is not an error.

The vehicle unity warning is definately an error.  Its unity telling you that something is wrong. It was already proven by coders/modders/players who noticed the problem early into the experimental before 1.0 even released. The vehicle bug was also verified by Faatal... that is why he fixed it in the current latest_experimetnal. I also agree it makes no sense why this fix hasn't been pushed to the stable branch yet, That is mainly why i placed the order to have latest_experimental moved to the stable branch asap.

[Chaton Noir]

Is it possible to release 7 Days To Die on next-generation consoles? Support for the game will last approximately 2-3 years. Perhaps the next generation of consoles will be released by the end of support, or their release will be near. I've heard that the new Xbox may be coming out earlier than the PS6. I think 7 Days To Die will work much better on the new consoles, especially with all the optimizations that will be made over the years.

[Roland]

12 hours ago, Chaton Noir said:

Is it possible to release 7 Days To Die on next-generation consoles? Support for the game will last approximately 2-3 years. Perhaps the next generation of consoles will be released by the end of support, or their release will be near. I've heard that the new Xbox may be coming out earlier than the PS6. I think 7 Days To Die will work much better on the new consoles, especially with all the optimizations that will be made over the years.

Maybe the current version will run on those future consoles just like the last version ran on the current generation even though it first released on the previous generation. Backward compatibility between generations of consoles seems to normalizing especially with the rise of downloaded games and digital libraries.

[Makaroni95]

When new Doors could be craftable? 

[Chaton Noir]

5 hours ago, Roland said:

Maybe the current version will run on those future consoles just like the last version ran on the current generation even though it first released on the previous generation. Backward compatibility between generations of consoles seems to normalizing especially with the rise of downloaded games and digital libraries.

I was referring to a special patch for new consoles.

[AidenwithAnAxe]

Wasn't there a glitch where when you drive into a gyrocopter you get launched into the air? (when on another gyrocopter or minibike) i love it. (keep it i swear) i know it'd be bad for the game's reputation because a bug won't get patched, but it's fun(ny) 

[BFT2020]

On 9/22/2024 at 11:51 PM, Grandpa Minion said:

For the life of me i don't understand why anyone would be playing the stable build when the current experimental build is so much more stable.

 

1) Experimental builds can have issues that require restarts every time there is an update that is pushed out during the experimental timeframe - players might prefer to play a longer game session than having to restart often

 

2) Experimental builds can change things that break working mods, so players might not be ready to try out the experimental.

 

None of my mods would be affected by the changes, but I did the V1.0 Experimental and was fine with the constant restarts at the time - but once Stable dropped, I preferred getting more than 7 - 14 days in a playthrough before being forced to do a restart.

[Grandpa Minion]

3 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

 

1) Experimental builds can have issues that require restarts every time there is an update that is pushed out during the experimental timeframe - players might prefer to play a longer game session than having to restart often

 

2) Experimental builds can change things that break working mods, so players might not be ready to try out the experimental.

 

Hello, i don't know if you noticed this but the latest_experimental update fixed... Setting linear velocity of a kinematic body is not supported warnings for out of world checks and Fixed race condition between RegionFileManager and PersistentPlayerData which could cause rare exceptions. It also fixed Animation desync on remote players when changing vehicle pose state while in an unloaded chunk. also fixed Rwg preview Mesh Memory Leak... also, not to mention the vehicle fixs already in from previous experimental. I totally get what your saying about mods and such but last i checked console players don't use mods. All i'm saying is this latest_experimental build is far superior performance wise than the current stable... for the life me i do not understand why this build hasn't been pushed to stable yet...

[Roland]

25 minutes ago, Grandpa Minion said:

 for the life of me i do not understand why this build hasn't been pushed to stable yet...

 

for the unlife of me it's done when it's done...

 

In all seriousness though, updates are no longer just PC updates. They are also console updates and they won't be pushed until they are stable for all platforms. The early access days of just one Steam build are forever over.

Edited September 26 by Roland (see edit history)

[Arez]

On 9/22/2024 at 10:24 AM, Zombiepoptard said:

Very few players like to be at the mercy of RNG and people who play sandboxes love choice with no pigeonholes. It felt like it was without consideration. 

In the immortal words of Jerry Seinfeld - "who aaare these people?". 

 

We don't know what kind of backend analytics TFP has. Some people (which is generally the very vocal minority) might be the only ones enjoying the things that get removed, while the majority either aren't enjoying them or aren't interested enough to engage with them much. 

 

As the game changes (which some think has been for the worst) the sales are going up and the player base is growing. Can't beat those metrics. 

 

Also, I remember the Sopranos. Some episodes were boring and people would get upset about it...until one would binge watch the season and realize how good those boring episodes were when in context with the whole thing.

 

7 Days is still in the middle of the season. There are massive, game changing additions coming. That is the biggest consideration that most people are missing.