Twitch Integration now requiring Extension & Overlay - Please reconsider

[generikb]

Hey gang!

 

I was streaming 7DTD today when the new update (and updated Twitch Extension) launched.  After updating everything, I couldn't connect to Twitch unless I was using the Twitch Extension Overlay.  

 

What does this mean? Well, a couple things.  In it's current state:

1.  A large popup window shows up over my stream that directs the viewer to "Please Grant Access to your Twitch ID".  Currently, you can't hide/cancel/decline this...it will just continue to display on the screen.  A lot of viewers are used to the standard methods of support (i.e. via chat and pressing the sub button), and not many folks are super comfortable with having random apps on the internet get access to their Twitch ID.  I had quite a lot of complaints today in my chat after this change.

 

2.  Since it's currently mandatory to use the overlay for Twitch Integration, that means 20% of all revenue we earn through the overlay is paid out to The Fun Pimps!  In their defense, this is a Twitch extension rule, not something that TFP decided on.  Regardless, it's a considerable amount to be required to pay just for Twitch Integration...and I'm pretty sure this wasn't TFP's intent to require their fans and best influencers to pay a % of their revenue.

 

My suggestion? Make the extension optional entirely.  Have the barebones "things happen when users give bits/subs/tips" system in place, and have the extension as an additional option if streamers want to install it.

 

If the devs have additional questions about the experience, you can reach out to me here or on Discord (I'm hanging out in the 7DTD Discord as well)

 

Thanks!

 

Generikb

[Panda Bear Productions]

Yes! The extension on twitch should be optional! 

 

The other change I'd like to see is the Pimp Pot reset to a base of Zero, or be set by the streamer.

 

It's also been clear to the 7DTD mod community that the new Twitch Integrations spawns and game_events are a clear copy from the mod Mischief Makers!

[Pokketninja]

1. When it comes to the overlay/panel/component, people are still connecting their twitch id with the game/TI. Nothing has changed there. This goes for any extensions on Twitch. If people are using the TI via chat their twitch ID still connects to it in order to receive/send info while playing the game. 

 

2. This hasn't changed with the TI. If people are using any sort of bits through the overlay and panel twitch and the creator still takes a cut. That is for every extension on Twitch on not TFP. When using the panel it was the same way. Having the commands are there for the free option. Streamers will still get the full revenue for subs and the TI doesn't touch that. 

 

9 hours ago, Panda Bear Productions said:

Yes! The extension on twitch should be optional! 

 

The other change I'd like to see is the Pimp Pot reset to a base of Zero, or be set by the streamer.

 

It's also been clear to the 7DTD mod community that the new Twitch Integrations spawns and game_events are a clear copy from the mod Mischief Makers!

 

Streamers can set the Pimp Pot to #setpot [value]. There are options as well to edit the xml to the person's liking with Twitch Integration. Here is the list of all the commands https://7daystodie.com/twitch-commands

 

The TI has been in the works for a long time and there has been plenty of streamers that have been using a system like this before both of them. If it's in the xml files it can be done. There are things in the TI that MM doesn't have and visa versa. 

[EqMonkVeeshan]

yea in its current state I will not be using  it, as I do not want to have it as an overlay. People complain that it takes up far to much of the viewable screen to use. so they miss the action. People who don't  want to grant permission to said extension in this way just get spammed with the grant window so they cant view the stream at all. 

[minisith]

It is your choice to use it or not.   You can still freely stream the game if you like and still get your bits.  Twitch still takes a cut either way....

[Floppz]

Its more than obvious, that the Twitch-Integrations bullies the viewer. 

 

Pretty ignorant that you dont understand it. 

I played 2 Days with integration and i have to quit the game.

 

Some people like to use the integration, some not. 

If you DONT like it, you cant hide it. Sorry but what blindfoldet trainee built that crap-code? Even if you allow the access it and hide it, it pops up without anything happend.

 

As i can see from the older Posts, this problem is known for a while and you did NOTHING! Even the 150+ Subgifts to trigger Train-Zoos and Subgift-Groups wont make me play this game again. At least i was able to disable EVERY Bit-Interaction. 

 

Stay (not PAY!) to play with the points and the streamer!

 

PS: have you ever wondered why not big streamer playes with your Integration? Just the small ones you dont earn any money with? The Game is fun but your greed and the lack of understanding destroys everything.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Floppz (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

It´s always on the screen? Even when not using it? People on twitch must use mods then to hide it. Can´t see anyone who doesn´t use it having it on screen.

 

But still, big things that block the view and ask me to log in even when i don´t wanna use them, are a huge nogo for me if i would watch a lot of twitch. Infact that´s the reason i don´t watch streamers because usually they have too much stuff on the screen already. Rather watch YT tbh.

Edited July 6, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[seven]

When people complained about TFP spending time on twitch integration instead of the the actual game, the response was it was just one dev in his offtime. This makes me doubt that story even more.

 

7DtD isn't a big streamer market. Why @%$# off the relatively few stream viewers with this forced granting permission, while skimming the meager income the streamers will get by using this?

[warmer]

On 6/28/2023 at 11:49 PM, generikb said:

.

 

2.  Since it's currently mandatory to use the overlay for Twitch Integration, that means 20% of all revenue we earn through the overlay is paid out to The Fun Pimps!  In their defense, this is a Twitch extension rule, not something that TFP decided on.  Regardless, it's a considerable amount to be required to pay just for Twitch Integration...and I'm pretty sure this wasn't TFP's intent to require their fans and best influencers to pay a % of their revenue.

 

I think it's puzzling that people have issue with this. I don't think you have a real sense of what you are asking for. You didn't create this game you are using to earn money. Why should any game company allow you to stream their product and not take a cut?

 

To put this another way, this is similar to when a musician covers a song, and is expected to pay the original writer/author. but this goes a step further. you haven't created anything on your own. you are playing a game that doesn't require any more creative work to recreate it on your end.

 

what you are asking for is the ability to sing a karaoke song of another artists and get paid for it and have issue with the artist asking for a cut. It should be the expectation that if you use someone else's intellectual property to earn money, that the owner of the property deserves a royalty.

[theFlu]

1 hour ago, warmer said:

It should be the expectation that if you use someone else's intellectual property to earn money, that the owner of the property deserves a royalty.

Funnily enough, I'm in the opposite camp over any sort of IP rights (abolish it all, except for maybe trademarks, those are for handy customer protection), but I do completely agree that Twitch & TFP can pretty much sort out their systems however they want.

 

Now, I don't even understand the issue - what is blocked by the addon or lack thereof - but somehow I still doubt it was the intent of TFP to pocket streamer monies. It's more likely either a "standard consequence/issue of using a specific API", or just outright something they didn't even know about.

 

As the stink reaches TFP QA, we shall see.. maybe.

[warmer]

1 hour ago, theFlu said:

Funnily enough, I'm in the opposite camp over any sort of IP rights (abolish it all, except for maybe trademarks, those are for handy customer protection), but I do completely agree that Twitch & TFP can pretty much sort out their systems however they want

 

People with this sentiment are typically not creators of any sort, or have had zero success making money with their creations.

[theFlu]

2 minutes ago, warmer said:

People with this sentiment are typically not creators of any sort, or have had zero success making money with their creations.

Yes, and most people with the opposite sentiment are typically not creators and/or just as successful at it. I'm not Just playing semantic games there, but I doubt this is the proper thread to delve into the topic. If you want to discuss it, toss me a DM or start a new thread (I don't care enough to start one, but I'll play if you want .. )

[warmer]

All I am saying is until you have spent sweat and hundreds of hours of your life creating something, you have no idea how pretentious it is for someone to assume they deserve to make money from your work. I have been on the creative side where people have tried to monetize my work without consent. it's a very icky feeling. 

[generikb]

Keep in mind that us Content Creators are also some of the best marketing available for games.  As a Youtuber and Twitch streamer for nearly 12 years now, I have personally helped many Indie games become successful (so much so that they thank me in their game credits!).  Many of my fans have said they bought games after watching my videos and streams.  I've received game keys (and sometimes paid sponsorships) from companies to play their games on my channels...game developers understand the value of Content Creators.

 

Do I make money off of my videos and streams? Absolutely! But so do the developers, it's a very symbiotic relationship.

I don't say "Hey developer...a lot of my fans bought your game because of me, so pay me a % of your sales" because I'm being compensated via ad revenue etc.

 

...and so devs shouldn't say "Hey content creator, you're making money playing our game, so pay us a % of your revenue" because they are making more sales because of us.

 

anyhoo, agree to disagree etc etc. That's just my 2 cents.

[8_Hussars]

On 6/29/2023 at 12:49 AM, generikb said:

What does this mean? Well, a couple things.  In it's current state:

1.  A large popup window shows up over my stream that directs the viewer to "Please Grant Access to your Twitch ID".  Currently, you can't hide/cancel/decline this...it will just continue to display on the screen.  A lot of viewers are used to the standard methods of support (i.e. via chat and pressing the sub button), and not many folks are super comfortable with having random apps on the internet get access to their Twitch ID.  I had quite a lot of complaints today in my chat after this change.

 

2.  Since it's currently mandatory to use the overlay for Twitch Integration, that means 20% of all revenue we earn through the overlay is paid out to The Fun Pimps!  In their defense, this is a Twitch extension rule, not something that TFP decided on.  Regardless, it's a considerable amount to be required to pay just for Twitch Integration...and I'm pretty sure this wasn't TFP's intent to require their fans and best influencers to pay a % of their revenue.

1) Concur, as a viewer the overlay nag screen is annoying.

2) The biggest problem is the "mandatory" issue.   From my limited research, "As per Twitch's policy, streamers receive 80% of the Bits used within the Extension."  This means that a cut (20%) is going to the Extension Author or elsewhere regardless.

[canadianbluebeer]

The screen is WAY too big.  Yes, you can slide it off to the side, and yes you can use chat commands instead.

 

This is like a Mischief Maker Lite.

 

Since Twitch only allows 1 overlay, I have to choose which one to use.

 

I'm not happy about this at all.

 

 

[dbryson]

I'm sure I don't understand everything about the twitch integration, but it is just annoying now.  Giant popups, asking to revoke or cancel what?  What did I cancel?  Did I grant access at some point in the past and now need to revoke it or what?  I just want to watch the stream and not mess with extensions, etc. 

 

Also, seems like streamers complaining they can't set the prices or at least they don't know how and everything is too cheap or too expensive and does it cost bits, or channel points, or pimp points or dukes and how do we get said points.  

[minisith]

1 hour ago, dbryson said:

I'm sure I don't understand everything about the twitch integration, but it is just annoying now.  Giant popups, asking to revoke or cancel what?  What did I cancel?  Did I grant access at some point in the past and now need to revoke it or what?  I just want to watch the stream and not mess with extensions, etc. 

 

Also, seems like streamers complaining they can't set the prices or at least they don't know how and everything is too cheap or too expensive and does it cost bits, or channel points, or pimp points or dukes and how do we get said points.  

You would have to ask a streamer as they have done the research to set it up.  You know studying....

[dbryson]

7 hours ago, minisith said:

You would have to ask a streamer as they have done the research to set it up.  You know studying....

I'm not really looking to understand it since I am not a streamer, just relaying my experience as a viewer.  I'm certainly not going to waste time studying how it works for myself.

[sebbelbabba]

12 hours ago, minisith said:

You would have to ask a streamer as they have done the research to set it up.  You know studying....

I'm not a streamer, but the moderator of a German-language Twitch channel, on which almost exclusively 7d2d is played. Since the overlay has become mandatory, the access numbers have dropped significantly. Of course, this could also be due to the fact that it's summer at the moment and many viewers prefer to spend their time outside. However, many viewers are also very irritated by the overlay, find it annoying, do not know how to hide it (they may also not have the necessary patience to look for the solution) and then prefer to watch a channel on which the integration is not active. Personally, I use the integration on mobile and switch the overlay to invisible every time I load the stream. From my perspective, I would like to see at least an option to set the overlay to invisible by default so that those viewers who want to use the integration could set it to visible. I'm sure our streamer feels the same way.

[canadianbluebeer]

Well, I've turned OFF the overlay, so no integration. (it won't work without it)

 

I had to choose, and Mischief Maker has a lot more options.

 

(and on my monitor box, the overlay keeps popping up the cancel/revoke thing, and I have to close it out.)

 

 

[RStarphoenix]

If you all are having problems with the integration...this is how to fix it (at least temporarily for some of you).

It will require you GRANT access, but afterwards click on the right-hand side of the screen on PC and you should see the extension box pop back up.
Just move the visible slider to the Left and it will hide the overlay.

You won't be able to use the overlay, but at least it won't keep popping back up on your screen giving you a hard time. The text commands will always be available.

 

While not a true "fix" in terms for correcting the problem, at least you can enjoy the full view of the stream without it constantly popping back up on you.

 

https://imgur.com/qFZQrUI

Edited July 13, 2023 by RStarphoenix (see edit history)

[Gronal]

has there been any updates on this? The overlay is really obnoxious.

You have to disable it whenever not playing 7dtd or it will just show up for everyone that loads your stream. I've had two streamers I know recently complain about it. It should be minimised by default so those who don't want to use it don't have to minimise it. Those who do want to use it can expand it.
And that way you wouldn't have to deactivate the plugin every time you're not playing 7 days to die.

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, Gronal said:

has there been any updates on this? The overlay is really obnoxious.

You have to disable it whenever not playing 7dtd or it will just show up for everyone that loads your stream. I've had two streamers I know recently complain about it. It should be minimised by default so those who don't want to use it don't have to minimise it. Those who do want to use it can expand it.
And that way you wouldn't have to deactivate the plugin every time you're not playing 7 days to die.

 

I think I remember there was a change.

 

There are changelogs for every version here in the forum in announcements. Just search for twitch in them and you know exactly what has changed

 

[Krougal]

On 7/6/2023 at 2:15 PM, warmer said:

All I am saying is until you have spent sweat and hundreds of hours of your life creating something, you have no idea how pretentious it is for someone to assume they deserve to make money from your work. I have been on the creative side where people have tried to monetize my work without consent. it's a very icky feeling. 

I am not saying I agree with abolishing all IPR, that is insane. Something does need to be done with the laws to kill off the patent trolls.

 

However, you seem to discount that it's free advertising, and advertising is what is driving the whole thing. People are there to watch someone play maybe to learn about the game or just to see if the game is something they want to buy or not. Do you think that doesn't hold a fair value for the maker of said game?