Poll - Which progression system did you prefer?

[theFlu]

36 minutes ago, outhous said:

Ever notice when you get a new car, that you start seeing that model everywhere. You like sledgehammers therefore you are looking out for Sledgehammer magazines. 

That's of course just a perception issue, but if one was to try to come up with a decent excuse.. it could be that a person adept at using a thing, is also going to be better at adapting bits of info from other sources to it. So the magazine isn't exactly a Sledge magazine, but something more general, materials, physics, whatever - and the player with good sledge skill is just more able to adapt that to his own tools.

 

Of course it doesn't feel like that with the real magazines dropping, but say "Forged Iron" seems like a similar approximation. You didn't make iron bars to make a knife out of, you spent effort at the forge, the Forged Iron item is just a representation of the effort. Which isn't great either as it's pluripotent, but hey.. approximations.

[Lasher]

59 minutes ago, outhous said:

Ever notice when you get a new car, that you start seeing that model everywhere. You like sledgehammers therefore you are looking out for Sledgehammer magazines. 

If you really need to say something is nonsensical, how about the idea there is a whole magazine series on Sledgehammers, now that is bizarre. 😄

 

 Are you saying that I should definitly buy more Rum - and then check the bins just in case? 🤪

And you're clearly not subscribed to Sledghammer Monthly - you missed the debate on teak vs Oak handles...

[Fox]

My vote is "I don't care which system they go with as long as they make up their damn minds and stick with it". Changing the entire system every year instead of focusing on other things like new content is just annoying to me. They can't seem to ever be happy with anything they do and move on from there.

[Viktoriusiii]

I am surprised to see LBD being so highly ranked... every time I mention it, I get bombarded with downvotes
The general playerbase probably liked LBD much more than the hardcore fans that are on the forums though.
But seeing it still in first place just warms my heart.



PS:
*Be one of the Fun Pimps*
*Dislike LBD for no good reason* (seriously, all the points were relatively easy fixes)
*removes it to go through a 3 Alpha overhaul*
*reimplements LBD, but simply worse* (learn by looting takes all the problems LBD had with far less of the character that LBD gave and combines it with THE FORGE BOOK PROBLEM!)
?
Profit?

[Fox]

13 minutes ago, Viktoriusiii said:

I am surprised to see LBD being so highly ranked... every time I mention it, I get bombarded with downvotes
The general playerbase probably liked LBD much more than the hardcore fans that are on the forums though.
But seeing it still in first place just warms my heart.



PS:
*Be one of the Fun Pimps*
*Dislike LBD for no good reason* (seriously, all the points were relatively easy fixes)
*removes it to go through a 3 Alpha overhaul*
*reimplements LBD, but simply worse* (learn by looting takes all the problems LBD had with far less of the character that LBD gave and combines it with THE FORGE BOOK PROBLEM!)
?
Profit?

I think it's in first place because the concept of learning by doing sounds like the better option, but the way these devs implemented it didn't really work out well enough so they changed it and is why a lot of ppl here know to hate it.

[fragtzack]

Where is the "hybrid" poll option?

 

As already posted by someone, the poll is flawed in so many ways.

 

We are currently under a hybrid system where there is:

 

1. Perks picked by exp points

2. Skill categories by magazines

3. Special skills by books

 

Yet, the poll doesn't account for 7D2D already using a hybrid system.

 

 

 While learn by doing may the most true to real life, this is a video game. What is fun in a video game doesn't mean simulating real life exactly. Incorporating a hybrid learn by doing into the existing system would seem logical to me, just need to avoid grinding encouragement at all costs. For example, you can improve mining by mining utilization OR by read the book. (However, mining will not increase STR only mining). To increase STR still need to spend perk points.

 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by fragtzack (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

59 minutes ago, Fox said:

My vote is "I don't care which system they go with as long as they make up their damn minds and stick with it". Changing the entire system every year instead of focusing on other things like new content is just annoying to me. They can't seem to ever be happy with anything they do and move on from there.

If that's your problem, why did you buy into an Early Access game in the first place? 

You know an EA game is almost guaranteed to change a lot of times during the development process.

 

Now, I know TFP do way more experimenting and balancing than the average dev studio, but still...

[Lasher]

6 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

If that's your problem, why did you buy into an Early Access game in the first place? 

You know an EA game is almost guaranteed to change a lot of times during the development process.

 

Now, I know TFP do way more experimenting and balancing than the average dev studio, but still...

 

And here comes the "it's in Early access" excuse yet again.

As I've said before in these forums - go ask some game devs that are in the industry if a game of this scope should still be in EA after 10 years.

No-one with any kind of knowledge thinks it's acceptable and whatever the problem is be it disorganisation, mismangement, laziness or just plain "well we've got your money" it's a nonsense, disingenuous excuse.

 

[meganoth]

59 minutes ago, Viktoriusiii said:

I am surprised to see LBD being so highly ranked... every time I mention it, I get bombarded with downvotes
The general playerbase probably liked LBD much more than the hardcore fans that are on the forums though.
But seeing it still in first place just warms my heart.
 

 

From my viewpoint it isn't. The fight between a perk system (no matter how the recipes are handled) and LBD is right now at 58% for perks and 42% for LBD. 

 

Recipe learning is just a part of the progression and already had learn-by-looting in earlier alphas.

 

[YourMirror]

21 minutes ago, Lasher said:

 

And here comes the "it's in Early access" excuse yet again.

As I've said before in these forums - go ask some game devs that are in the industry if a game of this scope should still be in EA after 10 years.

No-one with any kind of knowledge thinks it's acceptable and whatever the problem is be it disorganisation, mismangement, laziness or just plain "well we've got your money" it's a nonsense, disingenuous excuse.

 

You find yourself waaaaay to important. Play the game if you like it. Delete it if you dont. But puhlease stop thinking you are in any position to say something on how long it takes and what changes the freaking owners want to implement or not. They make their own standards and believe it or not, you just swallow. Nothing else.

Edited June 20, 2023 by meganoth
Removed flaming (see edit history)

[fragtzack]

2 minutes ago, YourMirror said:

You find yourself waaaaay to important. Play the game if you like it. Delete it if you dont. But puhlease stop thinking you are in any position to say something on how long it takes and what changes the freaking owners want to implement or not. They make their own standards and believe it or not, you just swallow. Nothing else.

 

!!

[Auger]

LBD was just plain terrible the way they had it implemented.  I mean sure I could get my blade skill up by fighting zeds but it would take forever.  Let's craft 500 stone axes to get my crafting skill up.  Let's not even talk about armor. For blades I ended up taping my mouse button down and slashing a concrete wall all night just to get a couple increases.  

 

Perk system was a bit better but still I could see how some people never liked the disconnect between I kill zeds my axe but my intelligence improves.  Okay now you could make your character as you wanted but you still had problem of getting better in something by not doing it.

 

 

LBR   learn by reading is simply the best solution.  You can still make your character as you wish but now you need to read and gain knowledge in the field your interests lie in. 

 

As you learn more in that field you get more drops to help. It's almost like LBD but with the added benefit of not being bored outta your skull.

 

 

 

[Lasher]

30 minutes ago, YourMirror said:

You find yourself waaaaay to important. Play the game if you like it. Delete it if you dont. But puhlease stop thinking you are in any position to say something on how long it takes and what changes the freaking owners want to implement or not. They make their own standards and believe it or not, you just swallow. Nothing else.

 

No - i think the people that buy, play and support the game are important, not me.

The only person "swallowing" without complaint is you.

Enjoy sucking it down...

 

 

[Jost Amman]

34 minutes ago, Lasher said:

No - i think the people that buy, play and support the game are important, not me.

The only person "swallowing" without complaint is you.

Enjoy sucking it down...

You're all the same... all of you guys who don't like the changes, or how many changes they do, you take it as a personal affront.

Like if TFP are doing this because they want to @%$# off players like you. 

[Fox]

1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:

If that's your problem, why did you buy into an Early Access game in the first place? 

You know an EA game is almost guaranteed to change a lot of times during the development process.

 

Now, I know TFP do way more experimenting and balancing than the average dev studio, but still...

Did I say I didn't like the game? Besides, if I wait until it gets out of EA, I'll be dead of old age.

[Jost Amman]

4 minutes ago, Fox said:

Did I say I didn't like the game?

No. Neither did I say that you did.

I can understand your frustration, but I'm just questioning your expectations.

[AtomicUs5000]

2 hours ago, Fox said:

My vote is "I don't care which system they go with as long as they make up their damn minds and stick with it". Changing the entire system every year instead of focusing on other things like new content is just annoying to me. They can't seem to ever be happy with anything they do and move on from there.

 
I agree with this statement. I think they could have made any system work, past or present, with a little thought and love as long as it evolved with everything.
 
Part of the problem, I believe, is that the priority changes over time. The mindset to make the first x hours of gameplay simple and enjoyable to hook players collides with maintaining deep and interesting long-term RPG elements. They are chasing a simple, one-size fits all system that gets discarded the moment it gets complicated.
Magazines are simple and make sense, but notice how the attempts to reduce grind and to amplify the effect of people getting what they want, players who wish to take the role of a miner, builder, or farmer have to become looter-miners, looter-builders, or looter-farmers now. 
This is one game trying to work in a few different genres. Some level of complexity should be expected, especially when it comes to allowing players to play in any way they want. Classic survival elements faded, and now we have RPG fading away as well.

[Auger]

15 minutes ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

 
Magazines are simple and make sense, but notice how the attempts to reduce grind and to amplify the effect of people getting what they want, players who wish to take the role of a miner, builder, or farmer have to become looter-miners, looter-builders, or looter-farmers now. 
 

It's always been that way?   You could never just mine. You had to loot to get mats , water food ect.

If you're playing as a group now and have a dedicated miner. The people looting can save the books they need to read to get better at mining.

 

 

 

 

 

[AtomicUs5000]

2 minutes ago, Auger said:

It's always been that way?   You could never just mine. You had to loot to get mats , water food ect.

If you're playing as a group now and have a dedicated miner. The people looting can save the books they need to read to get better at mining.

 

 

 

 

 

Of course you would have to do a little something else for survival, especially for solo. However, other people bringing back magazines doesn't work well because the magazines everyone else are finding the most of are related to the paths they have chosen.

[boban]

1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:

You're all the same... all of you guys who don't like the changes, or how many changes they do, you take it as a personal affront.

You're all the same... all of you guys who love every change TFP is doing, no matter how inconsistent with previous changes, you take it as an opportunity to defend their every move.

 

I'll see myself out. See you in 2-3 years discussing another revamp of progression system 😂

Edited June 20, 2023 by boban (see edit history)

[Auger]

Yes still they do drop.  You go into a working stiffs and you'll come  out with about load of tool magazines even if your not  specced in it

Edited June 20, 2023 by Auger (see edit history)

[AtomicUs5000]

5 minutes ago, Auger said:

Yes still they do drop.  You go into a working stiffs and you'll come  out with about load of tool magazines even if your not  specced in it

There is a separate topic discussing what can go wrong with that: 

Ideas are coming to solve the problem... but see how these ideas immediately start complicating the system.

[Jost Amman]

20 minutes ago, boban said:

You're all the same... all of you guys who love every change TFP is doing, no matter how inconsistent with previous changes, you take it as an opportunity to defend their every move.

 

I'll see myself out. See you in 2-3 years discussing another revamp of progression system 😂

You completely missed my point. I see people that criticize the changes, not on the merit, but just because they say the devs change stuff around too much.

That's not constructive criticism, that's blind nay saying and an immature approach to the development process.

[Auger]

10 minutes ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

There is a separate topic discussing what can go wrong with that: 

Ideas are coming to solve the problem... but see how these ideas immediately start complicating the system.

I guess if your playing with some P3 type of player then I guess that could be a problem for your group.  So we're going to overly complicate a simple system because the people you play with are jerks.

 

 

 

[AtomicUs5000]

1 minute ago, Auger said:

I guess if your playing with some P3 type of player then I guess that could be a problem for your group.  So we're going to overly complicate a simple system because the people you play with are jerks.

 
I'm just feeling for all those players who used to play a certain role in this game for many years. I'm 99% of the time solo. If anything, I would probably be P3 if I was even playing MP. I just see the complaints as valid and I see the system as less than perfect. Freedom of choice, player classes, and maintaining RPG elements was always a driving factor for many design decisions ever since madmole took over... so seeing these changes is a bit odd.
 
I wouldn't say they are jerks (in this hypothetical situation that you placed me in), but just players trying the play the game. If I was in that scenario as the person staying at base, I could easily be seen as the jerk who refuses to comply with the attempts to force me to loot while forcing others to loot specific places for me, forcing them to loot further and further away much faster because if I was out looting, I would be getting what I need at the intended rate. Then, on top of being this jerk, I can't even get decent XP through XP sharing. Taking care of others with food, drink, and meds has always been easily handled and never a big deal, but this takes far more time and effort and simply unenjoyable. I wouldn't want to be the person having to think about someone else's character progression either.