Original Promises and Plans and the Current State of the Game

[Old Crow]

50 minutes ago, Ramethzer0 said:

 

Everyone uses what information they are given.  Some people are not given all the information, and are generally taken as misconstrued when their opinions are up against people who have all the inside information.   That doesn't make them condescending.  That means they are trying to get through to you, and you're not listening.  Let that stew under your helmet for a wee bit.   Taking a single sound bit, removing the context, and projecting your own hot take on that is literally the textbook definition of lazy research.

Dude, there are literally posts on this site of Roland being unprofessional and condescending. Defend the guy if you want to. Saven researches what goes into his videos.

[Roland]

56 minutes ago, Old Crow said:

Dude, there are literally posts on this site of Roland being unprofessional and condescending. Defend the guy if you want to. Saven researches filters what goes into his videos.

 

Fixed that for you.

 

I did just go back and read all that original conversation and that guy I responded to did not come here desiring information about his concerns. He came to rant that TFP doesn't poll the community before making any decisions and that he should get to help with the direction the game takes since he paid money to play it. I did answer him point for point without any snark or condescension and gave him true answers for all of disagreements and he completely ignored my answer but went on for pages drawing people into his arguments that were never going to come to anything.

 

If @Saven really wanted to get to the truth and share actual information he could have highlighted those answers. But he didn't because he is an entertainer and not a legitimate source of actual news regarding 7 Days to Die.

 

Saven made the same mistake the guy, himself, did in misreading what I wrote. Here is what he said in response to my advice that he should find new people to play with that won't yell at him.
 

Quote

 

 

 

On 5/21/2022 at 3:46 PM, ArmoredStone said:

I even have a super-moderator implying I don't have friends when I complain about balancing for multiplayer servers.

 

I said you should find new people to play with that are less abusive. I never implied or stated that you have no friends. You were the one complaining that your friends yell at you when you open a container. I pointed out that they are not being friendly and that not all groups treat each other like that. Don’t try to spin that into me dissing you as a friendless person because you dared to criticize the lack of community polls for development. 
 

To be clear, I think you probably have lots of friends and probably a nice family. But your own description of the people you play the game with is something I would never put up with. I would take the passion you are using to criticize TFP and stand up for yourself in your gamer group or go find a new group who won’t yell at you. 
 

My point was the game doesn’t make people act that way. They’re just jerks. You deserve better. Anyone does. 

 

 

 

 

 

If you go back and read exactly what I wrote to him originally you will see that he is wrong about me implying he has no friends. That isn't even close to what I said in even the most loosely comprehensible interpretation. Yet, for his show, @Saven did the same level of "research". Why didn't my full explanation about my own remark make it into his show? I'll tell you why. It would have wrecked the segment.

 

This is about all the time I care to spend on this. You don't have to like the way I post but I'm not going to change. I think my style is in keeping with a video game website about killing zombies. If you want hotel front desk customer service professionalism then go stay at a hotel for a night and get your fill or visit a forum on more serious subjects where I'm sure nobody jokes around ever. If someone comes with legitimate concerns and asks questions then I answer them courteously and with a desire to help them understand. If someone comes just to rant and bash the developers and the fans of the game then their claims and accusations are going to be challenged.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[Matt115]

20 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

 

Most players have unrealistic expectations about game development. They assume that all games can be planned on a white board. And they can very well if their innovation level is nearly 0 or the developer don't want to deliver high quality. If not it is very much random whether the parts someone wants to include form a well-rounded package.

 

 

 

 

 

High quality =/- innovation.  Quick example - neighbours from hell 1 and 2. In short - this is a game about making pranks to bad neighbour. Devs made some changes in 2 so many players was frustrated about. Sometimes just "past and copy just change colour" is the best option. Warhammer total war was something great, warhammer 2 total war 2 was just this same just more factions more units etc. If something works accetable - don't fix it. Cod have often new changes but... this is not innovative but frustating.  i know a lot of game that were "innovative" and became worst that was before. So something it's just the best option to just add more stuff and not to redesign something few times.

 

18 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Ok, I will not waste 15 minutes of my life to search for something in a video. So I'll accept that probably Madmole mentioned something. And I think I remember now some time ago here in the forum someone said Madmole mentioned a time frame and we made jokes here about it being a big mistake. Anyone remember? It could be about this.

 

 

15 hours ago, Roland said:

I feel like typing something that is sure to appear on a future episode of Saven's World...

 

 

The guy has to frame everything in absolutes in order to deliver on the shock value of his click baity titles. Its all about likes and subscribes. Saven has no inside information and is simply choosing to use the worst case scenario and doom and gloom philosophy in order to get views. Later he will either claim that he was always right (If bandits do end up getting delayed) or he will claim that the pressure he and the community brought to the concern successfully pushed them into doing the right thing (If bandits make it into A21). Either way he makes himself the hero of his own world....uh....Saven's World.

 

6 hours ago, Roland said:

Heheh..I’m pretty sure he picks and chooses what information fits his narrative because that is exactly what he did. He definitely didn’t use the entirety of the information I give.  He can’t since the information itself would debunk all of his speculations and also show that I’m not dismissive and condescending to people who simply disagree with the Fun Pimps. What a gross over-simplification.   I actually spend a lot of time protecting the ability of people to disagree with the Fun Pimps. 
 

But obviously Saven can only work with what he’s given…lmao. 
 

Look, if you’re a fan of the guy and love his episodes then enjoy yourself. He’s doing entertainment for views and if it feels good to do some TFP bashing and feel super worried about the direction of the game together in his chat then I’m glad you have a place to do that. We don’t allow TFP bashing here, that’s true. TFP disagreeing is okay but not bashing and some people have a tough time figuring out the difference.
 

They are probably the type of “friends” others should try and avoid…😂

 

Parce THAT @Saven…
 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

I wouldn't even bother Roland.  I use to watch his channel when he did a fun POI tournament collaboration with other content creators, but stopped when he started posting tabloid style misleading videos.

 

Looking at his channel history, those type of videos is what nets him the most views.  Its not a surprise to see him create more of the same.

 

Honestly : i compire  Saven and Call of duty creators and.... There is big diffrence.  Cod creators well... are more vulgar and emotinal  that's fact but in this same time...  use much more sources, more context and facts. while  Saven -  take a lot of things out of context. And still i don't undestand how he compire 7dtd and Medieval dynasty. So it would be much much better even with cod outbreak mode 

[meganoth]

12 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

 

High quality =/- innovation. 

 

Read my post again. I never said these two concepts are connected. Notice the word "or" between them.

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

Read my post again. I never said these two concepts are connected. Notice the word "or" between them.

 

 

 

Sorry my mistake i read and instead or 😅

[RipClaw]

5 hours ago, Matt115 said:

And still i don't undestand how he compire 7dtd and Medieval dynasty. So it would be much much better even with cod outbreak mode 

Maybe because you and he like different aspects of 7 Days to die ? Medieval Dynasty and 7 Days have some element in common in one form or another. There is survival, building, mining and farming.

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, RipClaw said:

Maybe because you and he like different aspects of 7 Days to die ? Medieval Dynasty and 7 Days have some element in common in one form or another. There is survival, building, mining and farming.

Medival is peaceful about mostly... relationship and managment.  Survival is on begining after that you have more something like "simcity". Medival dynasty is even far from idk minecraft.  7DTD have more common with They are bilions - both games are defences against zombies as long as possible while garhering resources

[RipClaw]

42 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Medival is peaceful about mostly... relationship and managment.  Survival is on begining after that you have more something like "simcity". Medival dynasty is even far from idk minecraft.

I don't see why it couldn't still be interesting for 7DTD players who appreciate a more peaceful gameplay. He didn't say that it's identical but only that it could be an alternative.

As a second alternative he mentioned "The Infected". This is not quite as peaceful.

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

7DTD have more common with They are bilions - both games are defences against zombies as long as possible while garhering resources

These two games have that in common, but there are also many differences. For example, strategy and tactics are more important in "They are Billions".

At the end of the video, he invites viewers to leave suggestions in the comments. If you think he or his viewers would be interested in "They are Billions" leave a comment.

 

[Roland]

16 hours ago, Old Crow said:

 Saven researches what goes into his videos.

 

Okay, this is my last one...lol

 

 

 

He's obviously not doing his own research. He definitely did not read any of the original conversation nor did he use anything that I gave him. He got screenshots sent to him with some guy's interpretation and he went off of that. He never even visited afterward to check the source or read the whole conversation. It does seem to be about par for the course based on the rest of his video. So if unprofessionalism is the deal-breaker for you well....

 

NOW, I'm done.... haha

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

 

Okay, this is my last one...lol

 

 

 

He's obviously not doing his own research. He definitely did not read any of the original conversation nor did he use anything that I gave him. He got screenshots sent to him with some guy's interpretation and he went off of that. He never even visited afterward to check the source or read the whole conversation. It does seem to be about par for the course based on the rest of his video. So if unprofessionalism is the deal-breaker for you well....

 

NOW, I'm done.... haha

Hm... theoretical ... he could check 7dtd forum without being logged. This sound possible. Less probably but possible. Still sended screenshots sound like... easy job - just put screens and made video without research

[RipClaw]

7 hours ago, Roland said:

He's obviously not doing his own research. He definitely did not read any of the original conversation nor did he use anything that I gave him. He got screenshots sent to him with some guy's interpretation and he went off of that. He never even visited afterward to check the source or read the whole conversation. It does seem to be about par for the course based on the rest of his video. So if unprofessionalism is the deal-breaker for you well....

 

NOW, I'm done.... haha

In one of his videos, he highlights sections of text in the browser and also scrolls through the page. Therefore, it is much more likely that he is simply not logged in.

[Roland]

15 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Hm... theoretical ... he could check 7dtd forum without being logged. This sound possible. Less probably but possible. Still sended screenshots sound like... easy job - just put screens and made video without research

I guess that’s true. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt since, you know, I wouldn’t want to misrepresent him…

 

8 hours ago, RipClaw said:

In one of his videos, he highlights sections of text in the browser and also scrolls through the page. Therefore, it is much more likely that he is simply not logged in.

Yes. I see that. It just goes to show that when you don’t present the whole picture you can easily get it wrong. I admit I probably got it wrong simply by highlighting two dates and not considering everything. Good thing I didn’t broadcast that out on YouTube and am willing to see the flaw in my reasoning when it is pointed out…

[Jost Amman]

9 hours ago, RipClaw said:

In one of his videos, he highlights sections of text in the browser and also scrolls through the page. Therefore, it is much more likely that he is simply not logged in.

Yes, but why? I mean, does he want to hide his on-line activity there? For what reason? 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2022 by Jost Amman (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

22 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Yes, but why? I mean, does he want to hide his on-line activity there? For what reason? 

This does not have to be intentional. For example, when I clean up the cookies in my browser, I am also logged out and I only notice this when I want to post something.
 

[Matt115]

3 hours ago, RipClaw said:

This does not have to be intentional. For example, when I clean up the cookies in my browser, I am also logged out and I only notice this when I want to post something.
 

This happens to me twice. 

But this is strange because ... there is no reason for content creator focused on something to always check logged out since April

[Morloc]

On 10/10/2022 at 9:47 PM, Roland said:

Claim #1: 7DTD is an open world voxel sandbox based game

Perhaps the only survival/zombie/voxel game period. Thank you! - 100%

 

Claim #2: 7DTD is a unique mix of 1st person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role playing games

Absolutely. I'd still like to see a bit more TD, for high-difficulty endgames where you want a more head-to-head experience rather than trying to outwit pathing. - 97%

 

Claim #3: The game has multiple biomes and hundreds of POIs that are fully explorable including cities and skyscrapers

More biomes and POIs would be nice, but jaded-gamer-is-greedy!   99%

 

Claim #4: A story

Don't need this until release, unless a campaign is planned and that's should be easy enough to inject. - N/A

 

Claim #5: You will need to survive by finding food and water and managing health, stamina, hunger, and hydration. You will be able to boost your stats through character development.

I like the evolution of the survival in 7D2D. I don't think a few more changes will break anything, and will likely improve things. Could be a bit harder, but I also don't want a game where I keep dying due to lack of nutrients. While death should be possible, inconveniencing the player is preferable IMO. - 98%

 

Claim #6: You can farm crops and hunt wild animals

Die chicken! Die! - 100%

 

Claim #7: Day and night cycles that dramatically affect the strength and speed of the zombies

Yes, oh yes. - 100%

 

Claim #8: You can build traps and defenses for your base

More please, but otherwise good! - 95%

 

Claim #9: You can loot, mine, and craft

Nothing to say. Well done! - 100%

 

Claim #10:  You'll be able to craft generators, machines, and vehicles

Vehicles were unexpectedly amazing. I know the bike may seem weak, but it is so well done. - 101%

 

Claim #11: Enemies can sense you and are relentless in their pursuit of you

I HATE this...which is good. - 100%

 

Claim #12: There will be special enemies

Could use some rarer, meaner things. Quest spawns etc. I always remember fighting my first Wight I ran into underground. OMG...sheer terror. I had to kite it through many 100s of cactuses to finish it because it was absolutely as fast as I was and never broke off. - 90%

 

Claim #13: Bandits and Boss Characters

Dunno yet. - N/A

 

Claim #14: Structural integrity, gravity physics, and destructible structures will be part of the game

Very well done! - 100%

 

Claim #15: As the player progresses they will be able to craft items with a higher quality level

Yep - 100%

Claim #16: Different food types will have different purity levels granting more or less health and other abilities to the player

Yep. (Don't be shy about adding more!) - 100% 

 

Claim #17: You can stealth past enemies and throw distractors to draw their attention elsewhere

Well done! - 100%

 

Claim #18: You can craft various distractors and attractors to mess with the zombies

Hopefully an oversight. Zombie "thumpers" (with timers, triggers, pressure plates) just need to be! (Please%)

 

Claim #19: You can gain XP and use it to purchase skills and perk upgrades in various ability trees

Wait, you mean you're bringing back LBD?!! (1000%)

 

Claim #20: You can even learn a special finishing move

Could be something with a bit more damage and less frequent (perhaps hourly) use, but I agree that the power attacks do honor the claim. - 100%

 

Claim #21: Play solo, co-op, or MP in a special Nomad mode with leaderboards and where you can play as a zombie.

I don't have a lot of interest in non-solo play, so I'm going with: - N/A

 

Claim #22: Use creative tools for POI and world building

Yep. - 100%

 

Claim #23: Domesticate animals

Would be nice I suppose, but I can't miss what I never had. - N/A

 

 

 

 

My 2 cents in response to "What do you think?".

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc

[ejlarson]

So, I bought this in 2014 and have 2200 hours in it. I feel this game has delivered many many times over. Bravo is really all I have to add.

[RStarphoenix]

Claim #2 ... I'd put this at 75-85% solely because it is no longer unique. Game has been out for too long and others have used the formula.

Claim #3 ... I'd say 85% mainly because we don't have random irradiated areas that aren't just on the edge of the map (with a mostly useless hazmat suit that was supposed to let us survive it a bit longer).

Claim #6 ... It is 100% mechanically. However I would personally love to see a slight expansion on the animals available and temper the harvest on them based on size a bit more and make zombie versions of everything with similar adjustments (i mean some violent zombie chickens would be appropriate).

Claim #12 ... Maybe 90%. There's data for several zombie varieties that were removed or not implemented. Would love to see a return on some of them, with some appropriate AI (like the football player zombies & soldier zombies running in formations); the implementation of that Behemoth looking one would be great. Nothing like a 20,000 HP wall of undead mass to liven up your blood moon.

Claim #14 ... 95%. Some of the physics are still wonky as hell. Like I had one scenario with a properly secured concrete wall with catwalk about 7 blocks high, but take out the bottom middle foundation block and the whole catwalk falls? Just might need another look.

Claim #16 ... 95%+? Could stand to have more effects than the easily-avoidable dysentery. I mean let's have some other effects. I saw the game used to have a food poisoning mechanic; maybe refine that (make 100% purified food possible) and reintroduce it? Also most food juggle the same 3-4 buffs and the only real difference is the difficulty in making them.

Claim #17 ... Not 100%. I've never seen a snowball or rock distract a zombie, even with feral sense turned down all the way. And there's not many objects we can just throw for this. Or a better explanation of why it seems to fail all the time.

Claim #18 ... please give us flashbangs or something for this, or those firecracker poppers. would be so fun. I mean y'all implemented the "Celebration" sound for the integration... could it hurt to code an item to do that to a zombie and have it go nuts?

Claim #19 ... 100% mechanically, buy why do we have a 20+ point overflow at level 300 that we can't use? Probably fixed in A21 that I don't know of, but it always bothered me.

Claim #20 ... I'd call this 10% maybe? There's literally only ONE perk that gives us anything like this, and it is Bar Brawling books where you get that extra damage on the 7th hit or something (no special animation as far as i know, although I don't brawl much lately in game)? The Power Attack isn't really a special attack, it's more like a high-effort movement that a person would do in situations normally.

Claim #21 ... that'd be like what Escape from Tarkov does with Scav mode vs PMC. Scav is a random char the player can use to live as a controllable version of what is normally AI. Playing as a zombie against AI survivors or even PvP survivors would be a cool addition.

Claim #23 ... Perhaps instead of letting us have a coop with a chicken that would move around and lay eggs... maybe simplify it in a way.
Make an incubator that would hatch an egg after 5-7 days (similar to the idea in Stardew Valley), have the incubator then show a message that there's a chick inside (nothing we can remove) and allow us to use the machine to harvest the chicken for minimal resources (1 feather, 1 bones) or let it mature another 5-7 days (example) to a full chicken. We could then use the machine to harvest 1 egg a day or have it process the chicken into the minimum meat/feathers/bones possible (similar to a perkless character punching a dead chicken to harvest it). So while there won't be dozens of extra actors, you could still technically "domesticate" them. No pet dogs or the like, but maybe a nice extra mechanic to go with the farming perks?

Also too the "horror" game thing is kind of vague... it's zombie survival and while there is a touch of horror (eviscerated corpses you can harvest) it isn't really a horror game much. Outside of the predictable zombies falling out of the ceiling and stuff (which newer players would get a jumpscare out of maybe), you quickly lose the effect horror would give you. Maybe some new world items like radios that play sounds, or in places where there's water pipes a knocking/thumping kind of thing. Something to give certain places slightly more atmosphere and tune the horror effect.

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, RStarphoenix said:

Claim #2 ... I'd put this at 75-85% solely because it is no longer unique. Game has been out for too long and others have used the formula.

 

I don't think such a distinction should be taken away retroactively because other games copied it. But ok, as the game isn't released yet one could have the opinion that only the situation at release is important.

 

1 hour ago, RStarphoenix said:

 

Claim #3 ... I'd say 85% mainly because we don't have random irradiated areas that aren't just on the edge of the map (with a mostly useless hazmat suit that was supposed to let us survive it a bit longer).

Claim #6 ... It is 100% mechanically. However I would personally love to see a slight expansion on the animals available and temper the harvest on them based on size a bit more and make zombie versions of everything with similar adjustments (i mean some violent zombie chickens would be appropriate).

Claim #12 ... Maybe 90%. There's data for several zombie varieties that were removed or not implemented. Would love to see a return on some of them, with some appropriate AI (like the football player zombies & soldier zombies running in formations); the implementation of that Behemoth looking one would be great. Nothing like a 20,000 HP wall of undead mass to liven up your blood moon.

 

Are you really saying it is only 90% because special zombies were deleting again or only projected but not done?

The claim is not that all special zombies that were thought off or tried out once would be in the game, 

 

1 hour ago, RStarphoenix said:

Claim #14 ... 95%. Some of the physics are still wonky as hell. Like I had one scenario with a properly secured concrete wall with catwalk about 7 blocks high, but take out the bottom middle foundation block and the whole catwalk falls? Just might need another look.

 

There was no promise the game would be bugfree. Also can you be sure that there was no cavity (a cave or even a mine dug by you) below that to disrupt SI?  I and my friends build stuff all the time and we never did see SI bugs. And here in "General Support" we did not get confirmed claims of SI-bugs for a loooong time.

 

1 hour ago, RStarphoenix said:

Claim #16 ... 95%+? Could stand to have more effects than the easily-avoidable dysentery. I mean let's have some other effects. I saw the game used to have a food poisoning mechanic; maybe refine that (make 100% purified food possible) and reintroduce it? Also most food juggle the same 3-4 buffs and the only real difference is the difficulty in making them.

 

Dysentery isn't the only effect. Efiicient digestion of red tea, stamina regen of beer, yucca and coffee, infection cure of honey, bartering buff on cheese cake, and all the stuff you get from the different candies and Grandpa's drinks. 

 

1 hour ago, RStarphoenix said:

Claim #17 ... Not 100%. I've never seen a snowball or rock distract a zombie, even with feral sense turned down all the way. And there's not many objects we can just throw for this. Or a better explanation of why it seems to fail all the time.

 

For an easy test I would suggest you look for a zombie out in the wilderness or streets, not in a POI. Stealth to a distance where you could hit it with a pistol (maybe 20-30 blocks?) and throw a stone. I'm pretty sure it will work. 

 

That will not work on a sleeper in a POI or a zombie that is already seeing you. It works on zombies that are alert and standing around listening AND it should works on zombies who got alerted to your position (maybe because they heard you but not seen you) and are walking or running to the place where the alert came from. The latter is hard to differentiate from a zombie that sees you, sure. The game doesn't make your job easy there.

 

1 hour ago, RStarphoenix said:

Claim #18 ... please give us flashbangs or something for this, or those firecracker poppers. would be so fun. I mean y'all implemented the "Celebration" sound for the integration... could it hurt to code an item to do that to a zombie and have it go nuts?

Claim #19 ... 100% mechanically, buy why do we have a 20+ point overflow at level 300 that we can't use? Probably fixed in A21 that I don't know of, but it always bothered me.

Claim #20 ... I'd call this 10% maybe? There's literally only ONE perk that gives us anything like this, and it is Bar Brawling books where you get that extra damage on the 7th hit or something (no special animation as far as i know, although I don't brawl much lately in game)? The Power Attack isn't really a special attack, it's more like a high-effort movement that a person would do in situations normally.

Claim #21 ... that'd be like what Escape from Tarkov does with Scav mode vs PMC. Scav is a random char the player can use to live as a controllable version of what is normally AI. Playing as a zombie against AI survivors or even PvP survivors would be a cool addition.

Claim #23 ... Perhaps instead of letting us have a coop with a chicken that would move around and lay eggs... maybe simplify it in a way.
Make an incubator that would hatch an egg after 5-7 days (similar to the idea in Stardew Valley), have the incubator then show a message that there's a chick inside (nothing we can remove) and allow us to use the machine to harvest the chicken for minimal resources (1 feather, 1 bones) or let it mature another 5-7 days (example) to a full chicken. We could then use the machine to harvest 1 egg a day or have it process the chicken into the minimum meat/feathers/bones possible (similar to a perkless character punching a dead chicken to harvest it). So while there won't be dozens of extra actors, you could still technically "domesticate" them. No pet dogs or the like, but maybe a nice extra mechanic to go with the farming perks?

Also too the "horror" game thing is kind of vague... it's zombie survival and while there is a touch of horror (eviscerated corpses you can harvest) it isn't really a horror game much. Outside of the predictable zombies falling out of the ceiling and stuff (which newer players would get a jumpscare out of maybe), you quickly lose the effect horror would give you. Maybe some new world items like radios that play sounds, or in places where there's water pipes a knocking/thumping kind of thing. Something to give certain places slightly more atmosphere and tune the horror effect.

 

[Viktoriusiii]

On 10/11/2022 at 3:47 AM, Roland said:

Claim #2: 7DTD is a unique mix of 1st person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role playing games

 

This claim is 100% fulfilled. There is no other game on the market that fuses these genres in the way our game does which is why after 9 years in development it continues to grow in popularity. There are elements of all of these genres very much apparent in the game and they work well together to make something greater than the sum of its parts.

 

 

What do you think?

I won't say anything about some of the other 100% things, because most of them are close enough (80%+) that I don'T mind that 100% mark.

But... and I have said this multiple times:
7D2D IS NOT AN RPG!!!
It is just not, no matter how much you cosplay as a cowboy while playing it.

There is not a single decision to be made in this game. Only do or ignore.
An RPG needs some sort of character progression. And I don't mean stats.
It needs a story and it needs some sort of decisions to be made. These can even be forced (linear story).
But this is not the case. Stop with this blatent false advertising. Yes it might be in the future... and I can't wait.
 

Quote

A role-playing game (sometimes spelled roleplaying game, RPG) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting or through a process of structured decision-making regarding character development.

There is no character. We play as a blob in human form. He doesnt speak, he doesnt make any decision (actively or passively).
The ONLY feature even close to this is "character development" with stats.
But if you think Fifa is an RPG because you can decide what training you do, you are mental.

I will grant you most your points in your post. But that one is outright false. 7D2D is not an RPG.

(I personally would even question the horror aspect... but I guess it does have jumpscares so... but compared to early versions... this is childmode ; but that is a personal, subjective opinion.)
 

[meganoth]

52 minutes ago, Viktoriusiii said:

I won't say anything about some of the other 100% things, because most of them are close enough (80%+) that I don'T mind that 100% mark.

But... and I have said this multiple times:
7D2D IS NOT AN RPG!!!
It is just not, no matter how much you cosplay as a cowboy while playing it.

There is not a single decision to be made in this game. Only do or ignore.
An RPG needs some sort of character progression. And I don't mean stats.
It needs a story and it needs some sort of decisions to be made. These can even be forced (linear story).
But this is not the case. Stop with this blatent false advertising. Yes it might be in the future... and I can't wait.
 

There is no character. We play as a blob in human form. He doesnt speak, he doesnt make any decision (actively or passively).
The ONLY feature even close to this is "character development" with stats.
But if you think Fifa is an RPG because you can decide what training you do, you are mental.

I will grant you most your points in your post. But that one is outright false. 7D2D is not an RPG.

(I personally would even question the horror aspect... but I guess it does have jumpscares so... but compared to early versions... this is childmode ; but that is a personal, subjective opinion.)
 

 

A) You are correct

B) ... but the whole games industry (including games journalists) speaks of RPG when they have some perks or skills in a game. It is also very clear that TFP is talking about this mechanical character progression when they speak of the RPG part of the game.

 

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Viktoriusiii said:

I won't say anything about some of the other 100% things, because most of them are close enough (80%+) that I don'T mind that 100% mark.

But... and I have said this multiple times:
7D2D IS NOT AN RPG!!!
It is just not, no matter how much you cosplay as a cowboy while playing it.

There is not a single decision to be made in this game. Only do or ignore.
An RPG needs some sort of character progression. And I don't mean stats.
It needs a story and it needs some sort of decisions to be made. These can even be forced (linear story).
But this is not the case. Stop with this blatent false advertising. Yes it might be in the future... and I can't wait.
 

There is no character. We play as a blob in human form. He doesnt speak, he doesnt make any decision (actively or passively).
The ONLY feature even close to this is "character development" with stats.
But if you think Fifa is an RPG because you can decide what training you do, you are mental.

I will grant you most your points in your post. But that one is outright false. 7D2D is not an RPG.

(I personally would even question the horror aspect... but I guess it does have jumpscares so... but compared to early versions... this is childmode ; but that is a personal, subjective opinion.)
 

I would concede this point if 7 Days to Die was styling itself as a dedicated RPG solely within the RPG genre. But it does not. It advertises itself as a hybrid blend of genres taking elements from each. 
 

I maintain that 7 Days to Die has enough RPG elements to 100% complete its claim to be the mix it has been designed to be. It would be false advertising for TFP to claim that this game is “pure RPG fun” but it does not. 
 

BTW, sports games that have a career mode actually do rock an RPG vibe to them because it puts you the player into the role of your character progressing and developing the story of your career. 
 

Finally, while there is no overarching scripted story for you to experience in 7 Days to Die, I wouldn’t go so far as to say there are no stories that emerge at all. There are, and when people share those stories you’ll notice they always tell them from first person perspective because….the game pulls them into the role of survivor. It quickly becomes them in the story playing out their own survivor stories which is why this game is so infinitely replayable compared to a one and done script.
 

Your interpretation of the definition of RPG is much too limited. This game hits the RPG target pretty squarely for the elements they’ve included from that genre. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[Viktoriusiii]

the only feature they took is the mechanical progression.
Progression does not make an RPG. It is a feature that comes along with RPGs, but also other genres (like techtrees in CIV and the like).
Just because my game allows you to jump does not make it a "parcour" game.

Even something small like the decision "do you want to clear 'XY-POI' reducing zombiespawns for 3 days or do you want to clear 'YX-POI' to increase merchant stash"
would be an RPG element. But right now even quests (the most RPG element) are just inconsequential reward machines that do not impact the story nor the world.
And that is what makes an RPG: a narative progression.

And I am even granting that is a problem with the industry as a whole. I have thought of that as well. That these terms get thrown around as marketing ploys to lure in as many players as possible (which is why most games do not feature demos anymore, because then players would realize that they have been catfished).

 

 

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Viktoriusiii said:

There is no character. We play as a blob in human form. He doesnt speak, he doesnt make any decision (actively or passively).

I went back and reread this part and I have to say that I realized that you are correct about the personality of the toon in the game but, for me, that actually makes it easier to slip myself into the role. I’m not playing out his story….I’m playing out my story. He doesn’t make any decision—I do, and there are plenty in the game. He doesn’t speak but in my mind I am muttering to myself my plans and goals and even giving a response to the traders who don’t speak to him—they speak to me. 
 

So does it have to be a named and defined character for it to be a role playing game or perhaps do some RPGs actually get in their own way making it so the player is playing out that character’s story instead of being able to unconsciously inject themselves into the role? 
 

I hope TFP keeps the nameless blob as the protagonist. 

[Roland]

38 minutes ago, Viktoriusiii said:

the only feature they took is the mechanical progression.

So debate over then. You concede that the progression was taken from the RPG genre which means you acknowledge that this game is a mix of genres of which RPGs are one. Since neither I nor TFP ever claimed that this game is an RPG, it seems we are in the clear. 
 

BTW, no one ever claimed that the game was EQUAL PARTS 1st person shooter, RPG, tower defense, and survival horror.  Perhaps that’s an assumption you made that TFP was trying to make a game that was perfectly balanced across those genres?

 

If so, you can dismiss that notion entirely. Now, maybe you wish there was more RPG in the mixture and maybe @Matt115 wishes there was more survival horror in the mixture and maybe @RipClaw wishes there was more tower defense in the mixture and maybe each of you could be correct that it would make the game better and more fun for you. (And maybe there IS more to come)

 

But none of that negates the fact that if the game released today the devs could confidently and honestly market this game as a mix of those genres in an open world and with plenty of sandbox options to boot.