No traders.

[junta]

I'm playing on my own created world in vanilla RWG without towns. Option set to none. I wanna have experience like ultra scarce civillization, surviving in wilderness. But what I've found out is no traders exist in this world. Why? I understand there are little POIs (which I set to maximum, and there are plenty of them, I love to travel to find them) to make quests there. But?? It's not the reason to not add traders and remove such significant part of the game.

Still I can smelt dukes into brass but overall this resource become useless. Why is that? Traders must not be tied to towns. It should be like in Navezgane.

The suggestion is: please make traders free again or add an option in RWG to add traders like it works with POIs.

ps Nevertheless, going to have this wonderful wilderness experience.

[Matt115]

So you want to increase number of traders right?

[junta]

Dunno how was it possible to made such conclusion. I did an emphasis with bold text .

Quote

Traders must not be tied to towns.

It's unfair to have traders only in towns.

[Roland]

Traders are by far the most significant aspect of civilization. The towns are just denser collections of more POI's but the trader is civilization. If you want to play with less civilization then for sure you want no traders. A lot of people want to play with no traders and having them tied to towns allows us to remove them from the game by removing towns. I'd say to enjoy your wilderness survival game without traders. We did for about 10-15 alphas (Depending on when you started) before they suddenly became such an integral part of the game.

 

Tying the traders to towns is the only way to make sure they are spaced far enough away from each other and that there are a good selection of nearby POIs for questing. They used to be in the wilderness, then they were in towns, and then they were back in the wilderness, and now they are in towns for good. TFP experimented a lot with their placement and have made their decision on where they want them. (Now watch...they'll change their minds again).

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, junta said:

Dunno how was it possible to made such conclusion. I did an emphasis with bold text .

It's unfair to have traders only in towns.

Well this very... logical to have their own bases near city - why? because the best places for bases are buildings "reused" as trader outpost - easy to find, near important things and roads.

19 minutes ago, Roland said:

Traders are by far the most significant aspect of civilization. The towns are just denser collections of more POI's but the trader is civilization. If you want to play with less civilization then for sure you want no traders. A lot of people want to play with no traders and having them tied to towns allows us to remove them from the game by removing towns. I'd say to enjoy your wilderness survival game without traders. We did for about 10-15 alphas (Depending on when you started) before they suddenly became such an integral part of the game.

 

Tying the traders to towns is the only way to make sure they are spaced far enough away from each other and that there are a good selection of nearby POIs for questing. They used to be in the wilderness, then they were in towns, and then they were back in the wilderness, and now they are in towns for good. TFP experimented a lot with their placement and have made their decision on where they want them. (Now watch...they'll change their minds again).

It's very rare but i 100% agree with you. Well i remember times when could be "broken" because it was no point to clear 1 tier poi 3 km away from trader.  now distance between trader and Quest POI are just... optimal

[pApA^LeGBa]

@junta You could make a map to your likings and put in traders manually. I am pretty sure there is a tutorial how to do that either on here or on YT.

 

50 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

 now distance between trader and Quest POI are just... optimal

 

Up to T4 that is. T5 is just a joke tbh.

[Matt115]

2 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

You could make a map to your likings and put in traders manually. I am pretty sure there is a tutorial how to do that either on here or on YT.

 

 

Up to T4 that is. T5 is just a joke tbh.

T5 are rare so...

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Matt115 That they are so rare is the joke here. I had to generate 30 maps before i got one with a hospital. And i couldn´t manage to get one with all of the T5 POI´s so far. Sucks bigtime. We lack endgame very badly alredy and now T5´s are rare af. Sucks.

[Matt115]

Just now, pApA^LeGBa said:

@Matt115 That they are so rare is the joke here. I had to generate 30 maps before i got one with a hospital. And i couldn´t manage to get one with all of the T5 POI´s so far. Sucks bigtime. We lack endgame very badly and now T5´s are rare af. 

I think not.  Well they are based on low populated states so number of big POI's need to be low

Btw honestly....  7dtd can't have endgame because it have "walkind dead style" world so there is no chances for gigantic zombie, mutants like RE universe

[pApA^LeGBa]

Well each to their own. If you enjoy the lack of big POI´s then have fun. I find it boring, T5´s are the only POI`s that are actually giving you a bit of a challenge. Couldn´t care less if this is realistic for the state they based the game on or not.  Can´t wait for either KingGen to make a comeback or someone else doing a map generator. Worst case is that i have to manually add the POI´s. It´s unplayable for me like this on the long run. It´s already sad that there is only a handfull of them to begin with, but for that there is luckily compopack.

[Matt115]

4 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Well each to their own. If you enjoy the lack of big POI´s then have fun. I find it boring, T5´s are the only POI`s that are actually giving you a bit of a challenge. Couldn´t care less if this is realistic for the state they based the game on or not.  Can´t wait for either KingGen to make a comeback or someone else doing a map generator. Worst case is that i have to manually add the POI´s. It´s unplayable for me like this on the long run. It´s already sad that there is only a handfull of them to begin with, but for that there is luckily compopack.

Well for me POI are just aestetic. challenge depends on enemies - no matter how POI looks if number of zombie is similiar and you can't expect some "boss zombie"  - no matter if you fight outside , T1 or T5 yellow zombie guy have this same number of HP etc

[pApA^LeGBa]

You clearly never played with compopack. It´s a whole new challenge clearing vacant by zorro for example. No T4 in vanilla will give you that kind of challenge. I enjoy it to have a big ass POI that i need to clear with caution and a strategic approach, rather than just having to plow trough knowing there is nothing that can stop me.

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

You clearly never played with compopack. It´s a whole new challenge clearing vacant by zorro for example. No T4 in vanilla will give you that kind of challenge. I enjoy it to have a big ass POI that i need to clear with caution and a strategic approach, rather than just having to plow trough knowing there is nothing that can stop me.

idk i don't know this mod. Well iron/steel pickaxe + bales and you don't have to care just make hole in wall + make bridges

[ElCabong]

Doesn't the existence of traders defeat your purpose of a very sparse existence?

[asmosnuts]

     You would think traders would be the last thing you want in the game you describe unless you are just using quests for rapid progression, which errr isnt the game you describe. Confused would we?

[Maharin]

There needs to be alternate sources for trader-only items when no traders are in the game.  Maybe through recipe books or buried treasure quests that make you go to hard to reach places to find them.  Ideally the XML would have read access to game state information (existence of a POI, game options, current biome, that sort of thing).

[bdubyah]

8 hours ago, Roland said:

(Now watch...they'll change their minds again)

I hope they do honestly. I am not a fan of always spawning right next to the trader which is in turn always next to a town/city. Must be trying to hide you from how janky the wilderness looks now in comparison to the revamped cities.

[Roland]

2 hours ago, bdubyah said:

I hope they do honestly. I am not a fan of always spawning right next to the trader which is in turn always next to a town/city. Must be trying to hide you from how janky the wilderness looks now in comparison to the revamped cities.

 

Yeah, during Alpha 18 I started cancelling the tutorial quest and enjoyed looking for and eventually discovering the trader. I still cancel the tutorial quest but it is usually a simple walk over a nearby rise in order to "discover" the trader.

[bdubyah]

15 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

Yeah, during Alpha 18 I started cancelling the tutorial quest and enjoyed looking for and eventually discovering the trader. I still cancel the tutorial quest but it is usually a simple walk over a nearby rise in order to "discover" the trader.

Yeah, that was a good way to avoid them in the beginning. Can't really do that now though. Lol.

But I usually didn't even cancel it back when they could be well over 1km away as the distance would make me ignore them for a few days usually. But now it's like 99% likely you'll be able to see their flag without having to move or even turn more than 180 degrees. Me hates it.

[pApA^LeGBa]

10 hours ago, Maharin said:

There needs to be alternate sources for trader-only items when no traders are in the game.  Maybe through recipe books or buried treasure quests that make you go to hard to reach places to find them.  Ideally the XML would have read access to game state information (existence of a POI, game options, current biome, that sort of thing).

 

What would that be besides solare bank/panel and fergettin elixir? Solar doesn´t hurt you at all if you don´t have it. The elixir can be spawned in. I doubt that you will find a server with a no trader map, so that´s an exclusive SP problem imo. 

 

If those ways would exist, no one would buy solar or fergettin elixir anymore. And if those maps are super rare and super hard, it´s propably mostly too late in game as we have no endgame at all and it´s basically over after day 35.

 

@Matt115 Mod is a too strong word for compopack. It´s just adding a ton of POI´s. Wich is awesome. Compopack and Nitrogen/KingGen is what kept me playing. Pure vanilla was way too boring and repetitive.

[Matt115]

5 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

What would that be besides solare bank/panel and fergettin elixir? Solar doesn´t hurt you at all if you don´t have it. The elixir can be spawned in. I doubt that you will find a server with a no trader map, so that´s an exclusive SP problem imo. 

 

If those ways would exist, no one would buy solar or fergettin elixir anymore. And if those maps are super rare and super hard, it´s propably mostly too late in game as we have no endgame at all and it´s basically over after day 35.

 

@Matt115 Mod is a too strong word for compopack. It´s just adding a ton of POI´s. Wich is awesome. Compopack and Nitrogen/KingGen is what kept me playing. Pure vanilla was way too boring and repetitive.

Well - skyrim have this same problem for me - everything looks this same. Well at least immersive creature help with this problem

[AtomicUs5000]

I think they are better off making it so that "none" is not an option.
Right now, the trader is a problem, but I suspect there will be a lot more problems in the final alphas.
I understand this is sandbox, but if an option breaks requirements for the game it should probably get removed. They could make it a special use case and have alternative code to place traders and come up with missions, but the work maintaining that special case will get ugly as things move forward.

[junta]

^ This what I proposed as a variant to have separate slider/option to choose how many traders RWG should create.

Idk what you guys think is "a reasonable distance for quests". If you are talking about 50 meters away from traders, then meh. As for me, I like travelling — yea I play 90 or 120 minutes per day to compensate moving around, but still after acquiring a vehicle the travel aspect is no more a problem at all.

 

I dont abuse questing, I'd like to have a trader in wilderness to trade. I usually hoard junky stuff to sell - like it's usual way to play. It gives additional dopamine booster to sell @%$# and buy something useful. Instead it feels weird to have base without additional crate for trash items on sale.

ps dukes still can be used in vending machines, would be logical if you could pay with cash...

[Matt115]

28 minutes ago, junta said:

^ This what I proposed as a variant to have separate slider/option to choose how many traders RWG should create.

Idk what you guys think is "a reasonable distance for quests". If you are talking about 50 meters away from traders, then meh. As for me, I like travelling — yea I play 90 or 120 minutes per day to compensate moving around, but still after acquiring a vehicle the travel aspect is no more a problem at all.

 

I dont abuse questing, I'd like to have a trader in wilderness to trade. I usually hoard junky stuff to sell - like it's usual way to play. It gives additional dopamine booster to sell @%$# and buy something useful. Instead it feels weird to have base without additional crate for trash items on sale.

ps dukes still can be used in vending machines, would be logical if you could pay with cash...

Make 2 currency system would be pointless - too much of work for nothing. You like playing that way? Fine but hm... most people can't. you know : Job, family etc, so 50- 150 For tier 1 quest sounds reasonable. Btw now RWG system works by creating  titles - so traders can't be on wild anymore - you know roads etc. Okay this slider can work - this is true but traders still be in cities

[JoeDaFrogman]

I wonder if you could simply turn BACK on the towns and then edit the rwgmixer to have no cities and towns to be a single tile.     IMHO that would quite likely work since the only tile would be a trader tile.   Or perhaps 1 or 2 tiles to create essentially a crossroads with a corner store type of world.   I might play with that tomorrow.