Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Riamus]

They did say that they were looking at adding some more zombies.  They didn't mention how many, though it doesn't sound like too many more.  And they didn't mention skins for the existing zombies, which I think would probably be a better overall option as it can give far more variety without having to make a bunch of entirely unique zombies.  Different clothing, different skin tones, different hair color and style.  You could have it feel far more realistic with just that and no new zombies.

[Crypted]

6 hours ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:

For those wondering why I'd post then not play, it's in hope that any dev reading this can relay the overbearing sameness up the chain and maybe they can dedicate the time to adding more zombies, even a few new ones would make all the difference.

 

 

I agree, In my opinion just two or three more zombies that look completely different would be awesome. 

[Cr0wst0rm]

46 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

They were working on random generated zombie but they give up

 

 2  GB is... funny low.  You know that requiremnts was higer few times? It's not 2013 anymore. So it's expected technological progres. it's new consol generation of consols etc. so rest of games get highly improvment. Yes - nobody expected that 7DTD will be developed so long - they could without problem finish in 2015-2016 when they were close. But they decided to change thing over and over so..... but standards changes sop they have too add more zombies variants if they want too keep high quality. Will this mean some people can't play? yeah but rly low %

 

They should reconsider IMHO, this has a lot of potential. You now have ton of new buildings, so I think this should be their next priority (personall i would do anything to get such system in). If they go with (1 texture+1 mesh)/zombie, they will soon run out of texture memory (Especially on consoles)

If you have 125 completely unieque peds (model from scratch) you have many zombies but less HW resources.
If you go modular (5 heads * 5 leg parts * 5 torso parts) you get 125 zombies BUT with much less resources.
 

Plz devs, I dont want to force myself upon you  , but could you just say what would you think about this approach?

Edited April 15, 2023 by Cr0wst0rm (see edit history)

[Mister Forgash]

I'll agree with some of the recent criticisms that with what we've seen, given the time it's taken, A21 strikes me as [Hate to say it] underwhelming.

Now don't gets your bits all jumbled, it's just a first impression, just sayin'.

I really like the new door tech coming.
Water as a environmental element is very meh, to me.. I imagine I'll never genuinely appreciate the effort that's gone into fixing it.
As a resource to be managed, I'm curious to see how this plays out, the availability of water and simplicity of obtaining it never bothered me, but I understand wanting it to be more of a hurdle as you get on your feet, maybe I'll appreciate the changes after I suffer a few bouts of early dysentery and feel the growth in power as I get myself to a better diet.

New quest type- Cool, I'm happy about it, think I'll enjoy it, doesn't really wow me or anything though.. Just a clear quest on steroids.. But don't get me wrong, I like clear quests.

Zombies- Now, I don't think we need more unique zombies types, but if some did turn up, I'd be stoked!  .. But please, I beg of you Dev team, You gotta find a way to give them 2-3 alternate outfits or something [Glowy-eyes doesn't cut it!]. The zombs are such a central part of the game, it really stands out when you see 3-5 in a row that all look identical. I reach out to your gut feelings- May they twist uncomfortably every time you tell yourself zombie variety is in a finished state.

New trader compounds- Cool, I like they'll have more aesthetic personality, very curious to see what's coming with that helipad, but still, a very meh change to me.

New art assets - Beautiful, Love 'em, very happy, everything looks great- Well done!

Optimizations- Very excited to have more zombs loaded! This should make many, many people very happy .. don't remember hearing it, but I think this means the blood moon zombie counter might get some numbers on there.

 

Thanks for reading! - Buy those zombies some alternate teeshirts!

[Laz Man]

36 minutes ago, Cr0wst0rm said:

They should reconsider IMHO, this has a lot of potential. You now have ton of new buildings, so I think this should be their next priority (personall i would do anything to get such system in). If they go with (1 texture+1 mesh)/zombie, they will soon run out of texture memory (Especially on consoles)

If you have 125 completely unieque peds (model from scratch) you have many zombies but less HW resources.
If you go modular (5 heads * 5 leg parts * 5 torso parts) you get 125 zombies BUT with much less resources.
 

Plz devs, I dont want to force myself upon you  , but could you just say what would you think about this approach?

 

What you propose sounds cool (im not an art guy), but my guess is we are too far into the gold push for a redesign of that nature.  What is more likely to happen is a couple more zombie models being added after bandits / player character release if there is time or maybe post gold / DLC.

30 minutes ago, Mister Forgash said:

I'll agree with some of the recent criticisms that with what we've seen, given the time it's taken, A21 strikes me as [Hate to say it] underwhelming.

Now don't gets your bits all jumbled, it's just a first impression, just sayin'.

I really like the new door tech coming.
Water as a environmental element is very meh, to me.. I imagine I'll never genuinely appreciate the effort that's gone into fixing it.
As a resource to be managed, I'm curious to see how this plays out, the availability of water and simplicity of obtaining it never bothered me, but I understand wanting it to be more of a hurdle as you get on your feet, maybe I'll appreciate the changes after I suffer a few bouts of early dysentery and feel the growth in power as I get myself to a better diet.

New quest type- Cool, I'm happy about it, think I'll enjoy it, doesn't really wow me or anything though.. Just a clear quest on steroids.. But don't get me wrong, I like clear quests.

Zombies- Now, I don't think we need more unique zombies types, but if some did turn up, I'd be stoked!  .. But please, I beg of you Dev team, You gotta find a way to give them 2-3 alternate outfits or something [Glowy-eyes doesn't cut it!]. The zombs are such a central part of the game, it really stands out when you see 3-5 in a row that all look identical. I reach out to your gut feelings- May they twist uncomfortably every time you tell yourself zombie variety is in a finished state.

New trader compounds- Cool, I like they'll have more aesthetic personality, very curious to see what's coming with that helipad, but still, a very meh change to me.

New art assets - Beautiful, Love 'em, very happy, everything looks great- Well done!

Optimizations- Very excited to have more zombs loaded! This should make many, many people very happy .. don't remember hearing it, but I think this means the blood moon zombie counter might get some numbers on there.

 

Thanks for reading! - Buy those zombies some alternate teeshirts!

 

It will be interesting to see what folks think after the bandits go in.  They are not zombies but definitely will add a ton of more enemy variety to the game.

[Matt115]

50 minutes ago, Cr0wst0rm said:

They should reconsider IMHO, this has a lot of potential. You now have ton of new buildings, so I think this should be their next priority (personall i would do anything to get such system in). If they go with (1 texture+1 mesh)/zombie, they will soon run out of texture memory (Especially on consoles)

If you have 125 completely unieque peds (model from scratch) you have many zombies but less HW resources.
If you go modular (5 heads * 5 leg parts * 5 torso parts) you get 125 zombies BUT with much less resources.
 

Plz devs, I dont want to force myself upon you  , but could you just say what would you think about this approach?

Yeah i know. But it's too late unfortunatly 😕

@Laz Man is right about that. I'm shocked why building have bigger piority for them. So - well at least 2-3 years waiting for new models of zombies 😕

[Laz Man]

2 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Yeah i know. But it's too late unfortunatly 😕

@Laz Man is right about that. I'm shocked why building have bigger piority for them. So - well at least 2-3 years waiting for new models of zombies 😕

 

It's not shocking to me.  The game went years without alot of environment art support.  If anything, the POIs are catching up to the zombies which had their HD update first.

[Matt115]

15 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

 

It's not shocking to me.  The game went years without alot of environment art support.  If anything, the POIs are catching up to the zombies which had their HD update first.

HD update while many zombies were removed and only few added . While in every updated some POI redesigned/new props added/new added POI, In A20 was removed 4 Zombies while adding hm... 2 if i good remember 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[Crypted]

I don't understand why Joel Huenink always says something like (99% of the time when it's harder It's better) because this Isn't always true. I have played this game since Alpha 15 so I'm fine with this, but what about a new player just starting out. 

[meganoth]

I'm perfectly fine with the low count of zombies, I consider them archetypes and I know exactly that a punch from archetype "granni" hurts more than the one from archetype "Arlene" so I prioritze killing granni while staying out of reach. Much more tactical than hundreds of different zombies I would have to treat equally because I couldn't identify them.

 

Everyone who says he just needs 3 more variants to be happy is practically lying to himself because 3 more variants would not change anything for immersion. You really would need dozens of new zombies to make them look like individuals. And that is something the GTA developers can do easily without adding another 2 years but probably not TFP. Especially not when the new zombies need new animations as well.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[mstdv inc]

Every time before the release of a new alpha, I read the messages "there is nothing interesting in it" and after exp is released to the public, these people disappear for several months. hmm 😉

[Crypted]

5 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Everyone who says he just needs 3 more variants to be happy is practically lying to himself because 3 more variants would not change anything for immersion. You really would need dozens of new zombies to make them look like individuals. And that is something GTA can do without adding another 2 years but probably not TFP. Especially not when they need new animations as well.

 

 

Yeah It wouldn't change the immersive feeling, but at least your not killing a thousand Bikers or Arlene's for an example. I love 7DTD and I just want It to do great but the game got released In 2013 and It's still getting worked on. Some of the zombies that were In the game got removed, so when It comes to why the game Is still getting worked on It's because of constantly changing things, I mean this the nicest way possible. 

[meganoth]

15 minutes ago, Crypted said:

Yeah It wouldn't change the immersive feeling, but at least your not killing a thousand Bikers or Arlene's for an example.

 

If they add 3 more models you will kill only say 800 bikers and Arlenes and 800 of any of the new zombies. Is that a big difference?

 

 

15 minutes ago, Crypted said:

 

I love 7DTD and I just want It to do great but the game got released In 2013 and It's still getting worked on. Some of the zombies that were In the game got removed, so when It comes to why the game Is still getting worked on It's because of constantly changing things, I mean this the nicest way possible. 

 

Some of them simply looked very different when they got replaced with the HD model, for example the prostitute simply got replaced by a less controversial woman in revealing dress. I can only remember the farmer and the nurse that went away without replacement.

 

For many here the constantly changing things are the most important reason why we play each new alpha. TFP has to disappoint either your "group" or mine.

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Mister Forgash]

Now, now, I think 'practically lying to myself' is a stretch. - There are plenty of changes that I'm perfectly happy to play out before I come to an opinion on, but I'm confident then when a screamer goes off, and I get 4 lookalikes amongst the crowd, it just doesn't feel good. It's a great game, I'm not going to stop playing any time soon, but if you're staring down a conga line of Arlenes and say to yourself 'This is great, wouldn't change a thing', I think it's equally plausible that you're.. practically lying to yourself. 😜 But that's just the hill on which I will dig in my heels and prepare to die on.

 

1 hour ago, Laz Man said:

It will be interesting to see what folks think after the bandits go in.  They are not zombies but definitely will add a ton of more enemy variety to the game.

I think bandits will be fantastic for breaking up the pace/style of combat. I really hope they make us switch up our behavior to fight them effectively.

..But I do not trust them to make it feel better when I got zombie clone wars going on at my base.

[Matt115]

35 minutes ago, meganoth said:

I'm perfectly fine with the low count of zombies, I consider them archetypes and I know exactly that a punch from archetype "granni" hurts more than the one from archetype "Arlene" so I prioritze killing granni while staying out of reach. Much more tactical than hundreds of different zombies I would have to treat equally because I couldn't identify them.

 

Everyone who says he just needs 3 more variants to be happy is practically lying to himself because 3 more variants would not change anything for immersion. You really would need dozens of new zombies to make them look like individuals. And that is something the GTA developers can do easily without adding another 2 years but probably not TFP. Especially not when the new zombies need new animations as well.

 

 

You can reused animations for new zombies without problem - in re2 or l4d2 remake zombies use this same animations while have diffrent look. And yes - a lot of zombie veriants is neccesary of immersion. 

another thing - you can make a group of similiar enemies variants and easy know which one is harder - i will give you RE4 remake as example - cultists looks similiar but you can easy know which  one is harder - more ornamet outift mean is better, if have helmet mean he is bullet prove , if have less clothes mean it's  much more aggresive.

Okay but what about 7dtd?

Here it's even simpler - let's make a group of soldier zombies- without helmet it's weaker, big muscle zombie is much more dangerous while zombie soldier in helmet but without tshirt but many wouds looks weaker.

Civilians? If you would saw - 20 yo girl in sneakears, short leggins and top you would know that she is faster that dunno - 50 yo zombie woman in formal clothes.

 

And many variants of zombie is crucial for immersive

 

Just now, meganoth said:

 

Some of them simply looked very different when they got replaced with the HD model, for example the prostitute simply got replaced by a less controversial woman in revealing dress. I can only remember the farmer and the nurse that went away without replacement.

 

For many here the constantly changing things are the most important reason why we play each new alpha. TFP has to disappoint either your "group" or mine.

 

Crawler zombie looks worst to be honest 😕 but burned one looks much better.

Still - well this is zombie game. and you meet zombie everywhere. So it would be good if doesn't looked like clone wars

[Jost Amman]

34 minutes ago, meganoth said:

for example the prostitute simply got replaced by a less controversial woman

A stripper is NOT a prostitute! 

[Crypted]

49 minutes ago, meganoth said:

If they add 3 more models you will kill only say 800 bikers and Arlenes and 800 of any of the new zombies. Is that a big difference?

 

I was just saying that It's going to better since the game Is based In a post-apocalyptic world. I see posts on the forums saying either more zombies, random generated zombies or the existing zombies but with different clothes. TFP said In the interview with Guns, Nerds and Steel that they were thinking about adding more zombies then Joel said that he designed most of them, but they didn't pull the trigger on them. Rick said maybe a couple before gold. 

49 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Some of them simply looked very different when they got replaced with the HD model, for example the prostitute simply got replaced by a less controversial woman in revealing dress. I can only remember the farmer and the nurse that went away without replacement.

 

For many here the constantly changing things are the most important reason why we play each new alpha. TFP has to disappoint either your "group" or mine.

 

 The football player, cheerleader, farmer, animated corpse zombies were In but got removed, I think the farmer and football player should get added back In and then give them the HD model makeover, so they look better. 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Crypted (see edit history)

[Abunai]

I don't understand why you guys are arguing about the variety of zombies. What this game really needs is an endgame or a final objective, call it a story. Something like reaching point X, getting rescued, teaming up with a faction, completing all their missions, or finding a cure. Anything, really. The game definitely needs more than just more zombies or decorations. We've heard that they added a lot of dialogue lines, but we don't know much else. Maybe like notes you find in games like "Raft"? Going from point X to Y and finding clues until you reach the end. That would be enough for me. I'm already ruling out some things, like reaching a faction and helping them improve (maybe in 7 Days to Die 2). But I'm hopeful that the bandits won't just be another enemy and will add more depth to the game. It really needs it.

[Crypted]

2 minutes ago, Abunai said:

I don't understand why you guys are arguing about the variety of zombies. What this game really needs is an endgame or a final objective, call it a story. Something like reaching point X, getting rescued, teaming up with a faction, completing all their missions, or finding a cure. Anything, really. The game definitely needs more than just more zombies or decorations. We've heard that they added a lot of dialogue lines, but we don't know much else. Maybe like notes you find in games like "Raft"? Going from point X to Y and finding clues until you reach the end. That would be enough for me. I'm already ruling out some things, like reaching a faction and helping them improve (maybe in 7 Days to Die 2). But I'm hopeful that the bandits won't just be another enemy and will add more depth to the game. It really needs it.

I agree with you on the story and factions, I haven't heard much about these though to talk about It. 

[Riamus]

2 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

What you propose sounds cool (im not an art guy), but my guess is we are too far into the gold push for a redesign of that nature.  What is more likely to happen is a couple more zombie models being added after bandits / player character release if there is time or maybe post gold / DLC.

 

It will be interesting to see what folks think after the bandits go in.  They are not zombies but definitely will add a ton of more enemy variety to the game.

Considering they are redesigning player skins and from what I understand (I may be wrong), this is being done in conjunction with bandits so they can use the same code.  Why would you create this code and use it only on two of three obvious uses for it?  You would need to link the zombies to the new code and art would have to be made, but zombie skins would not require any truly new code if it just used what was being created for bandits.  Even if the code won't be the same for bandits and players, it doesn't preclude you from using it for bandits and zombies.

 

Pros for using skins:

* No new animations are needed

* You can create a lot of new zombie looks rather than only a few new zombies

* Art is easier as you are not having to create entirely new zombies

* Design is easier as you don't have to come up with new unique zombies

* Players don't have to memorize a bunch of new zombies to know what tactics to use as they are just skins

* Generally speaking, it takes fewer computer resources to display a variety of the same zombie with different skins than an equal number of different zombies

 

These are just some pros to using skins instead of making only a few new zombies.  I believe they could add this even at this stage of development, but the question is whether or not they will.

[Crypted]

2 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Considering they are redesigning player skins and from what I understand (I may be wrong), this is being done in conjunction with bandits so they can use the same code.  Why would you create this code and use it only on two of three obvious uses for it?  You would need to link the zombies to the new code and art would have to be made, but zombie skins would not require any truly new code if it just used what was being created for bandits.  Even if the code won't be the same for bandits and players, it doesn't preclude you from using it for bandits and zombies.

 

Pros for using skins:

* No new animations are needed

* You can create a lot of new zombie looks rather than only a few new zombies

* Art is easier as you are not having to create entirely new zombies

* Design is easier as you don't have to come up with new unique zombies

* Players don't have to memorize a bunch of new zombies to know what tactics to use as they are just skins

* Generally speaking, it takes fewer computer resources to display a variety of the same zombie with different skins than an equal number of different zombies

 

These are just some pros to using skins instead of making only a few new zombies.  I believe they could add this even at this stage of development, but the question is whether or not they will.

The Fun Pimps said in the interview with Guns, Nerds and Steel that they were thinking about adding more zombies then Joel said that he designed most of the new ones, but they didn't pull the trigger on them. Rick said maybe a couple before gold. So (If I heard this correctly) then shouldn't some of the zombies be already done or almost done. 

[meganoth]

57 minutes ago, Mister Forgash said:

Now, now, I think 'practically lying to myself' is a stretch. - There are plenty of changes that I'm perfectly happy to play out before I come to an opinion on, but I'm confident then when a screamer goes off, and I get 4 lookalikes amongst the crowd, it just doesn't feel good.

 

Yes, but 3 more zombies will not change that perceptibly. You would get 3 lookalikes instead. That is the point I am making: If they don't add dozens of new zombies players will still complain about not enough variation.

 

57 minutes ago, Mister Forgash said:

 

 

It's a great game, I'm not going to stop playing any time soon, but if you're staring down a conga line of Arlenes and say to yourself 'This is great, wouldn't change a thing', I think it's equally plausible that you're.. practically lying to yourself. 😜 

 

I am constantly lying to myself. Very healthy, keeps one sane.

 

57 minutes ago, Mister Forgash said:

But that's just the hill on which I will dig in my heels and prepare to die on.

 

I think bandits will be fantastic for breaking up the pace/style of combat. I really hope they make us switch up our behavior to fight them effectively.

..But I do not trust them to make it feel better when I got zombie clone wars going on at my base.

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Riamus]

24 minutes ago, Abunai said:

I don't understand why you guys are arguing about the variety of zombies. What this game really needs is an endgame or a final objective, call it a story. Something like reaching point X, getting rescued, teaming up with a faction, completing all their missions, or finding a cure. Anything, really. The game definitely needs more than just more zombies or decorations. We've heard that they added a lot of dialogue lines, but we don't know much else. Maybe like notes you find in games like "Raft"? Going from point X to Y and finding clues until you reach the end. That would be enough for me. I'm already ruling out some things, like reaching a faction and helping them improve (maybe in 7 Days to Die 2). But I'm hopeful that the bandits won't just be another enemy and will add more depth to the game. It really needs it.

They have started they are adding story to the game that would give what you are asking for.  Whether or not it is any good is something we will have to see.  It still doesn't give you an end game, but does give you an overall objective.  Most players are likely to ignore it and just play at they have always been playing, though. 

 

I'm someone who likes a good story on a game, but for me personally, a story isn't really needed here.  No matter how good it is, it will likely feel generic after one or two games.  There also hasn't been any indication if the story will work in RWG or only in pregen maps.

[Crypted]

5 minutes ago, Riamus said:

They have started they are adding story to the game that would give what you are asking for.  Whether or not it is any good is something we will have to see.  It still doesn't give you an end game, but does give you an overall objective.  Most players are likely to ignore it and just play at they have always been playing, though. 

 

I'm someone who likes a good story on a game, but for me personally, a story isn't really needed here.  No matter how good it is, it will likely feel generic after one or two games.  There also hasn't been any indication if the story will work in RWG or only in pregen maps.

When It comes to a story I'll have to wait for more information to put my thoughts on It. The factions sound like a really good addition to the game, we will have to wait and see though, hopefully soon. 🙂

[KOLAND]

hello everyone guys. Yesterday I watched a recording of the developers' stream, they showed a lot of new different buildings, but I did not see the water objects that they showed on the art. There were yachts and, if I'm not mistaken, oil rigs. Can you please tell me if they are planned to be added with new water at all? And will a raft or boats float there for convenience? And will there be dangers in the form of sharks or zombie sharks? Or even new types of drowned zombies, for example? Thanks in advance if anyone answers me. I immediately apologize if there are errors in my text.