Current state of class system

[starscream]

you could disassociate perks from attributes, but then you would need to gate them under something else. either character levels or increased cost for perks.

eg:

level 1 = 1 point

level 2 = 2 points

level 3 = 6 points

level 4 = 8 points

level 5 = 10 points

 

this way, even if you rush dump all your points into one weapon perk, you will only be able to max it out at level 23 and you would do so at a great cost of having all your other skills gimped. i think the above is balanced, since you could still max out a weapon relatively early, but playing with a more balanced spread of perks, it will take around level 60 to 80 to max it out, which is reasonable.

[uncle.heavy]

1 hour ago, starscream said:

you could disassociate perks from attributes, but then you would need to gate them under something else. either character levels

I guess that would be one ( the?) logical continuation of the idea.

I do not know about about the playership in general but I think I felt a great relief in the force when explicit level gates made their good-bye, so cost maybe seems more appropriate?

[Maharin]

3 hours ago, starscream said:

you could disassociate perks from attributes, but then you would need to gate them under something else. either character levels or increased cost for perks.

eg:

level 1 = 1 point

level 2 = 2 points

level 3 = 6 points

level 4 = 8 points

level 5 = 10 points

 

this way, even if you rush dump all your points into one weapon perk, you will only be able to max it out at level 23 and you would do so at a great cost of having all your other skills gimped. i think the above is balanced, since you could still max out a weapon relatively early, but playing with a more balanced spread of perks, it will take around level 60 to 80 to max it out, which is reasonable.

 

I'd even favor a steeper curve for some skills to promote a more well rounded character, which a "real" zombie apocalypse would require for survival.

[Odetta]

On 5/16/2021 at 10:13 PM, Roland said:

It would be cool if someone created a nitrogen-esque tool for remapping the perks before starting a new game. Even a random shuffle could prove to be an interesting experience.

Never in all my years have I agreed more to what you just said. This and your spongebob quotes of course.

[starscream]

18 minutes ago, Maharin said:

 

I'd even favor a steeper curve for some skills to promote a more well rounded character, which a "real" zombie apocalypse would require for survival.

 

i thought about that. with this 2x multiplier implementation, it is actually 1 point more expensive to max out a combat skill than the current attribute system, even more expensive if you include the fact that the user can wear magic glasses to shave off some more points from the requirement.

 

having a bigger multiplier, like 3x (which was my original plan) would discourage anyone from accepting this system over the vanilla implementation.

 

actually coming up with a new system and playtesting it might be a fun diversion until next alpha comes along.

[playlessNamer]

I dont like the class system. Make the skills separate and free from strength, int and agi trees.

For any "normal" player with 50-60 hours playtime in a playtrough 1x xp is riddicioulus. We always play on 2x xp or 2skillpoints per level.

It always ends up that i dont even touched the agi and stealth part. There is some stuff you have to skill 100%. Crafting, vehicles, ressources, tool efficiency, stamina,... when you got this you are 20-30 hours ingame and there is game allready over for many ppl.

 

At all: Its not really rewarding, not enjoyable. Its a ugly thought to skill funskills instead of practical stuff. Its gametime and lifetime when you hit that stone and ores for hours.

[Aldranon]

Yup, I finally saw a picture that summed up my feelings about 7D2D character development.

Its got POTENTIAL... but it's not right.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Aldranon (see edit history)

[Hyperbolt]

The only thing that kinda triggers some sort of OCD in me regarding the skilltrees are that you have maxed out everything at around level 276 or so, meaning the last points up to 300 becomes meaningless 😅   I would rather have too many skills and unable to max everything in a playtrough, than having to few skills and leaving some points to waste! 

 

So either add more perks to spend points on, or maybe you could get spicy and make some perks have 6-7 levels instead 5 as max! x) 

[starscream]

how often do people actually play to level 300? a more realistic point distribution should be balanced for level 200 (at 1x exp rate).

another question to ask would be how many hours do people typically spend on a map? on sp map, with average 90 min days, one might play to day 100 and have 150 hours in a map. i don't think people typically spend much more time than that on a map. this will likely translate to how long a typical player spends on an mp map.

 

if my assumptions are accurate, a progression system should be balanced for level 200/150 hours. a player should be able to max out 2 main skills and get 5 other skills to medium level. and if they play longer than the 'expected' time/levels, they'll just have an opportunity to improve more skills.

 

to get more accurate data to work with, one would have to conduct surveys on the player base to get their input on how long they spend on a map.

[Roland]

3 hours ago, starscream said:

one would have to conduct surveys on the player base

 

Unless people opt out of gamesparks using the game launcher then they are being being subjected to surveys.

[ShellHead]

5 hours ago, starscream said:

how often do people actually play to level 300? a more realistic point distribution should be balanced for level 200 (at 1x exp rate).

another question to ask would be how many hours do people typically spend on a map? on sp map, with average 90 min days, one might play to day 100 and have 150 hours in a map. i don't think people typically spend much more time than that on a map. this will likely translate to how long a typical player spends on an mp map.

 

if my assumptions are accurate, a progression system should be balanced for level 200/150 hours. a player should be able to max out 2 main skills and get 5 other skills to medium level. and if they play longer than the 'expected' time/levels, they'll just have an opportunity to improve more skills.

 

to get more accurate data to work with, one would have to conduct surveys on the player base to get their input on how long they spend on a map.

That seems pretty reasonable, pick the 2 main stats that you find the most fun then grab the QoL perks from the rest of the trees. With grandpa’s forgettin’ elixir you can afford to have players not get 100% of the perks so I wouldn’t be against this, though i think rebalancing would be in order.

[Boidster]

On 5/22/2021 at 7:23 PM, playlessNamer said:

There is some stuff you have to skill 100%. Crafting, vehicles, ressources, tool efficiency, stamina

 

<Thor_squinting_at_Dr_Banner.jpg>

 

You may prefer to always skill those to 100% (perfectly valid approach!), but it's not a universal requirement. In fact I think most players do not max out crafting or vehicles since schematics (or just finished items) come pretty easily fairly early on by looting book stores and visiting traders. I used to spend deep into the engineering and vehicles tree, but lately I've been putting only a few points in there - enough to get the minibike and forged steel, maybe - and then relying on schematics for everything else. It's worked out pretty well, freeing up points to put into armor, bows, pistols, healing factor etc.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Boidster (see edit history)

[Aldranon]

Auto shotgun, mini bike, working mixer.... aaand done!

 

That is a completely viable build, first time, every time.

[playlessNamer]

On 5/24/2021 at 8:28 PM, Boidster said:

... but lately I've been putting only a few points in there - enough to get the minibike and forged steel, maybe - and then relying on schematics for everything else. It's worked out pretty well, freeing up points to put into armor, bows, pistols, healing factor etc.

 

At this point of the game when i find scematics or buy a motorbike at the trader i have it usually loong time before. All this walking, all this long ways walking home, all this times you hit wood, stone, ores, this times couldt be 70% shorter. All this time hammering on doors and safes couldt be triple as fast with some basic skillpoints.

 

I get your point but imo this doesnt feel right. Forced to play nomad long time because farming to build a base doesnt work with it. Abuse the horde nights with cheap wood bases. Live from the loot like a squirrel, digging holes, hide loot.