Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[dcsobral]

4 hours ago, Macheezmo said:

After a little testing, it seems like this is an overall a buff to poles and plates, but I'd need to test a little more extensively.  Zombies used to almost always do 6x damage to poles and plates thinking they were stuck.  It seems like they aren't doing that anymore, but I only tested them for a few minutes. 

If they removed the 6x damage, then that's cool!

44 minutes ago, Roland said:

So now there is a bigger chance that they will break through but has anyone tested it on a horde night? Did they die? Did they have to alternate between melee and repair? I just wonder exactly how bad it is now. If zombies never had even a chance of breaking through before but now there is a chance but it can still be managed by effective horde night management-- it might turn out to be a more thrilling affair.

 

Or it may turn out to be a disaster. Are there any videos that can be linked? I'd like to see a horde night where the zombies possibly break through where before they never ever did.

 

Actually, yes! Kage tested it on today's video (linked below), and he DID die. Well, he died on the previous video, before horde night, but you didn't specify when. But he had to almost immediately fall back to his hatches which have not been nerfed and, by the shape logic, should have been.

 

 

[hiemfire]

4 minutes ago, dcsobral said:

If they removed the 6x damage, then that's cool!

They didn't:

 

[pregnable]

9 minutes ago, Roland said:

I guess. Blocks are so cheap now. I’m understanding of disappointment over the change. Just a bit disbelieving if the phrase “TFP has made my base impossible!”

 

I have no problem with you guys experimenting with it, but I think you are going to find you are just confusing people and making certain shapes undesirable. 

 

I can picture your average player, that does not invest a large amount of time playing a single game, maybe having fun building with a friend, getting super confused when they start seeing the hps of blocks when they need to repair. 

 

Then maybe they start seeing that some steel has the same hps as concrete and getting annoyed with their choices in life and decide to make Amish soap.  This would directly affect my Amish soap business, and I am not happy about it!!!

[RBN]

5 minutes ago, Roland said:

I guess. Blocks are so cheap now in general. I’m understanding of disappointment over the change. Just a bit disbelieving of the phrase “TFP has made my base impossible!”

I used the plates for exterior walls in my base because it lets more space to walk when you put bars around. Now any random cop in a random horde that vomit at this walls will break it easily, compromising the chest that are stuck at them.

 

I used the poles as support pilars to builg plates cages. They fit the gape that the plates left between them when you make a square..

 

I used the 1/2 blocks to elevates the dogs to makes posible to melee.

 

And i can continue with "legit" uses of this shapes that now are obslote because any zombie sneeze can destroy it.

11 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

They didn't:

 

So is even worst. Nor only have less hp and cost the same additionally they have a penalty of 6x damage.

 

If they doesn't like that shapes they can remove them. It will be more elegant

[Khalagar]

25 minutes ago, dcsobral said:

Actually, yes! Kage tested it on today's video (linked below), and he DID die. Well, he died on the previous video, before horde night, but you didn't specify when. But he had to almost immediately fall back to his hatches which have not been nerfed and, by the shape logic, should have been.

 

I mean, why would like 20 cobble worth of material hold out that many zombies for the entire horde night without repair lol. From a balance standpoint that cobble pole *still* lasted a really long time against like 20+ zombies. And half the issues he was having was he couldn't aim  and then shot the cobble pole himself with his shotgun which does a ton of block damage

 

I don't think it's that unreasonable that you would need to have something a bit less cheesy than literally 20 cobble to stop an entire horde all night, especially with the traders now giving you five hundred free cobblestone / cement blocks that you can instantly place down without any material cost investment at all. Besides that, I thought you guys were arguing that the reason people were upset wasn't because of melee cheese bases? That pole he was using was nothing to do with aesthetics and purely to do with melee cheese lol

 

I dunno, horde night is supposed to be scary. If you want to build an aesthetic castle then by all means do it, but do it with the knowledge that a few decorative blocks might get broken if you fight the horde night in it. If you are trying to build an actually efficient horde base then just build it in your back yard or across town or wherever you want, and you can still live in your castle or wooden house or w/e

 

You still can build OP AF cheese bases if you want anyway, the one Kage shown doesn't even look efficient. All you have to do is build a couple of stairs with junk sledges where the zombies take forever to jump up and get yeeted, and have an area where you can throw explosives at the zombies. His base would have held out 100% okay if he'd had a one or two block stair case leading to the tunnel entrance where they had to jump to land on the block the sledge targetted, before jumping one last time to enter his tunnel. The cobble half blocks would have held out fine against the few zombies that managed to make it past the sledge.

[RBN]

A plant is a decorative object, a sofa is a decorative object....

 

A plate and a pole are building blocks. It can be used to more things that defense blocks, and this build uses are compromised now.

 

And there's nothing "cheesy" in melee a day 100 horde and use a block that allow you to reach the zombie.

 

In fact is more dangerous do that instead of a square block because pole already have a penalty and you didn't hear me complain about it. I use them because are convenient to my game play..

 

In my style the cheesy thing is using guns, explosives and tons of ammo from a save long distance but i'm an adult and i doesn't care about what others people do to have fun.

 

This change is simply dumb.

 

 

 

 

[Roland]

28 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

especially with the traders now giving you five hundred free cobblestone / cement blocks that you can instantly place down without any material cost investment at all.

Well here’s the answer to all of you who are fine with the HP reduction but angry for the cost. Just earmark all the free blocks you get as poles and plates and your problem is solved. 

[Darklegend222]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

 

lol...That change to LOTL 2 was planned even before experimental dropped but there was not time to implement it. It was not added because of some complaining. It was added to the very first patch that was available after experimental released.  Nice try though.

 

So now there is a bigger chance that they will break through but has anyone tested it on a horde night? Did they die? Did they have to alternate between melee and repair? I just wonder exactly how bad it is now. If zombies never had even a chance of breaking through before but now there is a chance but it can still be managed by effective horde night management-- it might turn out to be a more thrilling affair.

 

Or it may turn out to be a disaster. Are there any videos that can be linked? I'd like to see a horde night where the zombies possibly break through where before they never ever did.

 

I get the upset over the poles for melee defense on horde night. How do the plates destroy your building plans exactly? What were you using them for where 10000 hp were a must and 5000 hp are game killing?

The plates don't break anything for me personally, but if you put them on the ceiling of a 2 block high wall, zombies physically couldn't get through without breaking the plate first, but since they can crouch the block hp doesn't matter anymore.

 

It will matter again when zombies can climb through 1 meter holes, but even then there are better ways to go about it with poles and what not.

[RBN]

17 minutes ago, Roland said:

Well here’s the answer to all of you who are fine with the HP reduction but angry for the cost. Just earmark all the free blocks you get as poles and plates and your problem is solved. 

Man please, all blocks are under the same generic shape that the trader gives you for "free".

 

Only that, as pigs said, some blocks are most equal than others.

[Roland]

11 minutes ago, Eighmy_Lupin said:

And once again you'll find a way to nerf and ruin anything they figure out, just like this time, just like the time before that and the time before that and the time before that. Anytime players dare step out of line it'll be nerfed out of usefulness. 

 

Also telling players that bring up legitimate concerts that they are "wailing" just farther proves my point. TFP's are so stuck up their own butts about how the game MUST be played that any one who dares disagrees MUST be dismissed. The fact you are pretending everyone has eventually decided you're right is either you being wildly delusional or straight up lying.

 

People are still annoyed by needless changes that do nothing but stifle creative and freedom of how to play. I mean this topic by itself are full of people saying "Hey remember that previous alpha when things were a lot better?" And all the replies that aren't from TFP are "yep things were better before they needlessly changed it"

 

If you guys think everyone should play a certain way then say that and stop lying about wanting players to make their own choices.

 

 

There have been some measured responses and good feedback given. But there has also been wailing. You are wailing. You probably need to take a break until experimental is over since you seem not to have the temperament for it. This voluntary beta is for those who are willing to test changes and give things a fair shake and not rant or make overly dramatic sweeping and untrue statements about TFP competing against players and how they build.

 

I can promise you that there was not one single conversation about "we gotta stop these guys from building in the way that they love to build muwahahahahahahaaaa!" No mustaches were twirled or capes flourished or damsels tied to railroad tracks.

 

What even makes you think that the current state is the final state?

 

The reason we don't say that people should play a certain way is because we don't believe that. You are making wild accusations and assuming the worst possible motives which tells me you're a bit emotionally compromised about this change. 

 

How about you opt out of the beta and go back to A19 until we get to about A20.4 which will be the golden age of A20 that when some future player hates a change in A21 will say, remember when things were great back in A20.4?

[RBN]

3 minutes ago, Roland said:

I can promise you that there was not one single conversation about "we gotta stop these guys from building in the way that they love to build muwahahahahahahaaaa!" No mustaches were twirled or capes flourished or damsels tied to railroad tracks.

and i can believe you but the result is that it does. I doesn't think that was an evil plot or something diabolically melodramatic like that but is not a good solution and breaks more things that it solves. If it solves any at all.

[Roland]

9 minutes ago, Eighmy_Lupin said:

Sure if you're ok with with anything that isn't a square block being ripped a part in seconds and leaving you open to attack. Ya know something literally no one will do. And no wasting quest rewards on blocks isn't an answer and pretending it is is disingenuous at best.

 

I watched the Kage video. It wasn't ripped out in seconds. The actual evidence is against your wild claims.

 

10 minutes ago, Eighmy_Lupin said:

If we are using the logic(YOUR logic by the way)that plates are smaller therefore have less hp then they 100% should use less materials to make.

 

I really doubt you would be satisfied. You simply don't want poles and plates to be less HP end of story. If the next update comes with adjusted building costs and greater HP for the multishapes, I really don't think you will be celebrating.

 

13 minutes ago, Eighmy_Lupin said:

Telling players they should be ok with spending 100% resources for 25% protection is beyond stupid and goes against the balance you claim to be doing this in the name of. "BUT like resources are tots easy to get!11!" So? They're still a time sink to get, a time sink that I and most other players would rather not have 75% of flushed down the toilet.

 

But no things won't change because you don't actually believe in the logic of "realism" that's just your excuse to punish players for stepping out of line.

 

Hell you're not even willing to give any sort of warning to players in game to let them know only of a few shapes have the promised HP until they've already wasted the resources.

 

Again, you are playing an experimental build. There is no reason to believe the current state is final. What we need is more feedback like what we saw in the Kage video. Show the developers how impossible it is now to have a base the way you like it. Test the change. It is what experimental is for. What experimental is not for is assuming that every single changelog represents the game in its final intended form. The devs aren't going to rush to explain every tiny change they do. They kind of expect that if someone opts in to experimental then they understand that changes are part of the experience.

8 minutes ago, RBN said:

Man please, all blocks are under the same generic shape that the trader gives you for "free".

 

Only that, as pigs said, some blocks are most equal than others.

 

Come on...that was a joke. If you can't take a joke about the change then you are too emotionally involved with it. Take a break. There is no evidence this is the end of it. We are still in experimental.

 

It would be nice to hear people ask questions rather than make assumed accusations and rants. 

[pregnable]

19 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

There have been some measured responses and good feedback given. But there has also been wailing. You are wailing. You probably need to take a break until experimental is over since you seem not to have the temperament for it. This voluntary beta is for those who are willing to test changes and give things a fair shake and not rant or make overly dramatic sweeping and untrue statements about TFP competing against players and how they build.

 

I can promise you that there was not one single conversation about "we gotta stop these guys from building in the way that they love to build muwahahahahahahaaaa!" No mustaches were twirled or capes flourished or damsels tied to railroad tracks.

 

What even makes you think that the current state is the final state?

 

The reason we don't say that people should play a certain way is because we don't believe that. You are making wild accusations and assuming the worst possible motives which tells me you're a bit emotionally compromised about this change. 

 

How about you opt out of the beta and go back to A19 until we get to about A20.4 which will be the golden age of A20 that when some future player hates a change in A21 will say, remember when things were great back in A20.4?

 

This guys...

 

Sorry to quote you so much, lel, but experimental is the perfect place to test stuff like this. 

 

I doubt they will keep this change, but just give the actual reasons and try to not rage at them, lel. 

 

Pretty sure MM is going to be like, "Oh yeah, we should probably change this back". 

 

If anything you guys should maybe nerf the new 3x3x1 blocks... not that I really want you to, because they are perfect for my needs. 

 

I already made a video about it which almost no one will watch, heh. 

[overgoat]

In the new release I've noticed my robotic sledges aren't engaging enemies anymore.  I've tried different sledges, moving them to new locations, and logging in and out, but they are just ignoring enemies.  Is this just me or can anyone else confirm they are seeing it to?

 

 

[Firecat]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

 

lol...That change to LOTL 2 was planned even before experimental dropped but there was not time to implement it. It was not added because of some complaining. It was added to the very first patch that was available after experimental released.  Nice try though.

 

"No, this wasn't the devs actually LISTENING to their player base and making reasonable changes in response, they just did what they were always planning regardless. The fact it matched up with some of the player's feedback is just a coincidence." Why are you saying this like it's a good thing? Why do you sound smug about it? I read that change in the patch notes it  initially raised my opinion of the devs because it did indeed look like they had heard the feedback and were making at least small changes to help balance things. (Because to be fair, usually it is SMALL changes that are needed, not the dramatic ones that are often immediately called for.) And yes, for every major change in the game systems there is going to be a LOT of "wailing" as you call it, but mixed in with that wailing is going to be some people giving actual constructive feedback, and that shouldn't be ignored. Even the wailers sometimes make good points, even if they present them wrongly or overestimate the problem. It's never something to be proud of to say the gamer developers don't care what their players think.

[Roland]

12 minutes ago, overgoat said:

In the new release I've noticed my robotic sledges aren't engaging enemies anymore.  I've tried different sledges, moving them to new locations, and logging in and out, but they are just ignoring enemies.  Is this just me or can anyone else confirm they are seeing it to?

 

 

 

TFP determined that sledges were too OP against zombies so they have been changed to only target chickens. We really hated the fact that players were enjoying sledges so much and using them so effectively.

 

(test them in a fresh game. Could be they are glitched if you continued from the last build. if they still don't target anything post it as a bug.)

[RBN]

summarizing

 

 

[meganoth]

4 minutes ago, Firecat said:

 

"No, this wasn't the devs actually LISTENING to their player base and making reasonable changes in response, they just did what they were always planning regardless. The fact it matched up with some of the player's feedback is just a coincidence." Why are you saying this like it's a good thing? Why do you sound smug about it? I read that change in the patch notes it  initially raised my opinion of the devs because it did indeed look like they had heard the feedback and were making at least small changes to help balance things. (Because to be fair, usually it is SMALL changes that are needed, not the dramatic ones that are often immediately called for.) And yes, for every major change in the game systems there is going to be a LOT of "wailing" as you call it, but mixed in with that wailing is going to be some people giving actual constructive feedback, and that shouldn't be ignored. Even the wailers sometimes make good points, even if they present them wrongly or overestimate the problem. It's never something to be proud of to say the gamer developers don't care what their players think.

 

Maybe he said it so people don't think they need to hyperventilate in the forum to get their will. 

 

[Roland]

4 minutes ago, Eighmy_Lupin said:

If you truly believe what you claim to then there is a clear path, either reverse the HP change or change the material amount. Until you do one or the other it is clear you are either lying about your reasoning for making the HP chance or you don't actually believe in the "realism" argument.

 

I, myself, am not going to do anything of the sort ever. The programmers may do it after the designers get the feedback they are looking for-- which happens to be actual gameplay experience and usecases after a period of time.

 

You saying that they will rip everything to shreds in seconds is not going to be compelling feedback for them to make any change. Them watching bases get assaulted will let them determine whether they went too far or not. They are fully aware of the logic of making building cost match HP. They will make a decision about that, I have no doubt.

 

Please, be assured that your message has been delivered. Now there is nothing more to do but wait and see what happens next.

[overgoat]

6 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

TFP determined that sledges were to OP against zombies so they have been changed to only target chickens. We really hated the fact that players were enjoying sledges so much and using them so effectively.

 

(test them in a fresh game. Could be they are glitched if you continued from the last build. if they still don't target anything post it as a bug.)

Got a for real LOL out of me on that one.  My game is an upgraded version of the last experimental so could be broke.   Don't want to start over, but no sledges might make me....

[Firecat]

1 minute ago, meganoth said:

 

Maybe he said it so people don't think they need to hyperventilate in the forum to get their will. 

 

 

I'm pretty sure most of those inclined are going to do it anyway.

[Roland]

10 minutes ago, Firecat said:

 

"No, this wasn't the devs actually LISTENING to their player base and making reasonable changes in response, they just did what they were always planning regardless. The fact it matched up with some of the player's feedback is just a coincidence." Why are you saying this like it's a good thing? Why do you sound smug about it? I read that change in the patch notes it  initially raised my opinion of the devs because it did indeed look like they had heard the feedback and were making at least small changes to help balance things. (Because to be fair, usually it is SMALL changes that are needed, not the dramatic ones that are often immediately called for.) And yes, for every major change in the game systems there is going to be a LOT of "wailing" as you call it, but mixed in with that wailing is going to be some people giving actual constructive feedback, and that shouldn't be ignored. Even the wailers sometimes make good points, even if they present them wrongly or overestimate the problem. It's never something to be proud of to say the gamer developers don't care what their players think.

 

You can accurately get smug out of text? Bach was saying that 10 complainers got a change they wanted. I was letting him know that at least in this case that wasn't so. I just gave the true account, man. I'm sorry if that disillusions you. The devs definitely listen to complaints. They know all about this initial reaction to the block change. They also have their plans. In the case of LOTL 2 they knew that it needed to be buffed and the steps needed to smoothed out. I'm sure there have been balancing changes completely due to user complaints even if this particular case wasn't one of them. Even if everyone would have been gleeful about the farming change, LOTL 2 was going to get changed. But you needn't suppose that just because I set the record straight about this case that I'm somehow making a sweeping statement that the devs never listen to community feedback. That is just crazy.

[RBN]

21 minutes ago, Roland said:

Come on...that was a joke. If you can't take a joke about the change then you are too emotionally involved with it. Take a break. There is no evidence this is the end of it. We are still in experimental.

 

It would be nice to hear people ask questions rather than make assumed accusations and rants. 

Maybe you you misinterpreted me, I'm literally lol with that and I suppose that it will be reverted or adjusted because make no sense at all, or at least I hoped so.

[Roland]

6 minutes ago, overgoat said:

Got a for real LOL out of me on that one.  My game is an upgraded version of the last experimental so could be broke.   Don't want to start over, but no sledges might make me....

 

Right so start a new game and cheat in a sledge and run a quick test on that fresh game. If it targets just fine then you know and can decide whether or not to restart. If it doesn't then put in a bug report for it. Should be another update coming probably next week and maybe it will fix them.

[RBN]

7 minutes ago, Firecat said:

I'm pretty sure most of those inclined are going to do it anyway.

And the concrete and steel. Too OP

 

The new upgrade will be:

 

Paper-cardboard-plastic-wood

 

And doesnt cry over it