I want my structural engineers

[Tahaan]

Every second post on the forums are complaining about how the zeds are too smart.

 

Just now I walked out of Jen's compound and decided to go look for the zed beating on her wall.

 

I stood there watching the idiot for a couple of minutes.  Would he notice me?  Nope, I had to shoot him in the back of his head to relieve him of his misserable existence.

 

Then there are all the zeds that storm my little re-inforced bunker from all sides, and keep pounding on the steel walls when there is an open door just 5 steps away.  Only about half of the zeds go for the door.  The rest I need to climb up out onto the roof to go and dispatch.  

 

And then there's just the typical idiot that stands there hitting a railing in stead of comming down the stairs to say Hi.  Now I've got to walk all the way to him to greet him. How rude.

 

Long story short I've been cheated.  My version of the game doesn't have the structural engineers, so I should qualify for a discount.

[canadianbluebeer]

How about the idiot that runs past you and starts banging on a tree.  I have to smack him in the back of the head to get his attention. oops, too hard, no head.

 

Why are you trying to dig through the steps? Just walk down.  No? Ok, have it your way.

 

Banging on the fence?  Can you not see that the fence ends just a few feet away?  sigh.  C'mere you...  *SPLUT*   There, happy now?

 

Yes, quite a few like that. Sometimes it's hilarious, other times, just sad.

😛

 

[theFlu]

Having a horde base next to a trader and an oil refinery. The long fence of the refinery is partially trader-protected. Guess where half my XP spends the night..

 

I think I might need to move...

 

For the practical side of things; if you're building your own structures, use mostly whole blocks for the parts you want the zeds to .. "see". Most of the shaped blocks are a little weird for the AI; fences, sheets, and poles are practically invisible for them.

[ElCabong]

I don't think this is a bug. Zombies aren't supposed to be rocket scientists. If there is a way to get into your base they will figure it out. I overlooked something and two, about an hour apart, showed up on me.  I couldn't figure out how they were doing it until the third one showed up and I followed him.

 

 

[Tahaan]

 

21 minutes ago, ElCabong said:

I don't think this is a bug. Zombies aren't supposed to be rocket scientists. If there is a way to get into your base they will figure it out. I overlooked something and two, about an hour apart, showed up on me.  I couldn't figure out how they were doing it until the third one showed up and I followed him.

 

 

 

My game  is working fine.  I'm making fun of all the people who can't see that the zeds are NOT structural engineers.  

 

Zombies must be a bit random.  Sometimes they follow the path you want them to, and other times they just do something unpredictable.

 

 

[RipClaw]

17 hours ago, Tahaan said:

Zombies must be a bit random.  Sometimes they follow the path you want them to, and other times they just do something unpredictable.

As long as the zombies don't act too unpredictable and choke points and funnel bases still work I have no problem with it. But there are also players who want the zombies to be completely unpredictable and then the two strategies mentioned before would not work anymore.

[Kalen]

18 hours ago, Tahaan said:

Zombies must be a bit random.  Sometimes they follow the path you want them to, and other times they just do something unpredictable.

Definitely not my experience.  I have a funnel base that I've used up through the day 28 horde and the zombies have, without exception, followed the path I expected them to.

[Boidster]

Tahaan is correct, I think. Back in one of the A18 releases - maybe the last one - they added more unpredicability to zombie behavior. You can see the AI tasks they have in entityclasses.xml, but not the code which decides which task is active at any moment. But IIRC some of it had to do, for example, with taking falling damage when trying to approach a target (has a chance to switch them to "HULK SMASH" mode).

 

I have a funnel base in A18 and while most zombies went through the grinder, more than a few decided that they instead wanted to break through the wall to get to the dart trap room. And most of the zombies on the "back" side of the base came around to go into the entrance, a few decided to stay back there and just beat on the wall.

 

I think one of Vedui's recent videos about his "boobie trap" spends a little time commenting on this random behavior and even using hay bales to mitigate the HULK SMASH toggle on falling.

[Kalen]

3 minutes ago, Boidster said:

Tahaan is correct, I think. Back in one of the A18 releases - maybe the last one - they added more unpredicability to zombie behavior. You can see the AI tasks they have in entityclasses.xml, but not the code which decides which task is active at any moment. But IIRC some of it had to do, for example, with taking falling damage when trying to approach a target (has a chance to switch them to "HULK SMASH" mode).

 

I have a funnel base in A18 and while most zombies went through the grinder, more than a few decided that they instead wanted to break through the wall to get to the dart trap room. And most of the zombies on the "back" side of the base came around to go into the entrance, a few decided to stay back there and just beat on the wall.

 

I think one of Vedui's recent videos about his "boobie trap" spends a little time commenting on this random behavior and even using hay bales to mitigate the HULK SMASH toggle on falling.

My funnel base doesn't have any kind of drop, so maybe thats why I'm not seeing it.... like I said, they predictably walk into the gauntlet.   Though, there is one single block at the back of the base that takes a decent amount of damage, so apparently they do sometimes beat on that a little before walking around to the front.   

[Boidster]

I don't think falling is the only thing that can switch their AI tasking, but it is the easiest to demonstrate. I'm sure there are base designs that are more reliable than others in bringing them in smoothly. My point was only that I think Tahaan is correct that zombie behavior is somewhat randomized and/or can be changed on-the-fly based on events affecting the zombies. It could be that many of your zombies are changing AI tasks after they get into your funnel, but by then it is way, way too late for them. 🙂

 

My base doesn't have any drops, but I notice that while 90% of the zombies try to jump over the first obstacle, a few just stand there and try to break it. By that time, though, it is way, way too late for them. They might get one swing at the obstacle before they are taken out.

[Reckis]

I think that the people complaining about zombies being structural engineers either really suck at base design, are picking the wrong poi to turn into a horde base, or want to be uber with an impregnable fortress in the first seven days.

 

I am no genius at base design and dont over-analyze zombie behaviors vs. different types of blocks and have still managed to build a functional base that has lasted till day 100+. Thats not to say I haven't had a few incidents with demolishers or other "special" types, have even died more than once to a horde night, but every failure leads to a better build.

 

 

[canadianbluebeer]

Who's talking about a base?   Most of this behaviour is just in the wild, or clearing a POI.

 

Sometimes they make a beeline for you, others, they really are in search of braaaaiiinnnsss.... 'cause they ain't got none.  😛

 

The falling damage putting them in Hulk Smash mode is funny.  (and I still love the ragdoll/faceplant effects  that occur)  

 

 

[Kalen]

1 hour ago, Reckis said:

I think that the people complaining about zombies being structural engineers either really suck at base design, are picking the wrong poi to turn into a horde base, or want to be uber with an impregnable fortress in the first seven days.

 

I think people are complaining about structural engineers because (I believe) we were actually told that they target weak points in structures.

[RipClaw]

1 hour ago, Reckis said:

I think that the people complaining about zombies being structural engineers either really suck at base design, are picking the wrong poi to turn into a horde base, or want to be uber with an impregnable fortress in the first seven days.

The complaints about zombies being structural engineers come from fact that the zombies knowing exactly how many HP the blocks between the player and them have at any given time.

 

For example in A18 I had a funnel base that was just a long corridor with dart traps and electric fences. To protect me from the zombies I added 4 horizontal poles made out of steel across the width of the corridor.

 

Because these poles were combined stronger than the walls of the corridor the zombies tried to break through the walls of the corridor. Then I put a steel wall between me and the dart traps. I reinforced this wall with plates inside and outside also made of steel. And then the zombies no longer tried to break the walls. You could not see the additional walls from outside the base or inside of the corridor but the zombies knew that the walls where there.
 

[Kalen]

Just now, RipClaw said:

The complaints about zombies being structural engineers come from fact that the zombies knowing exactly how many HP the blocks between the player and them have at any given time.

 

For example in A18 I had a funnel base that was just a long corridor with dart traps and electric fences. To protect me from the zombies I added 4 horizontal poles made out of steel across the width of the corridor.

 

Because these poles were combined stronger than the walls of the corridor the zombies tried to break through the walls of the corridor. Then I put a steel wall between me and the dart traps. I reinforced this wall with plates inside and outside also made of steel. And then the zombies no longer tried to break the walls. You could not see the additional walls from outside the base or inside of the corridor but the zombies knew that the walls where there.
 

Yes, and I'm fairly certain we were told that they were coded to behave this way.... so the complaints are based on both observation and information provided.