YooHoo, zombies oh, where are you?

[Ghostlight]

Yeh too bad no one predicted this...

 

But yeh, nothing to worry about outside, and the most telling issue was doing the apts and getting 0-1 zeds per (rarely 2).

 

Total snoozefest. MM definitely made it based in his newbie skill level, so it sucks for the rest of us.

 

Ah well.

 

I completely agree. We are really starting to notice how boring and empty POIs are now, especially the bigger ones that used to be quite a thrill-fest. The thrill and challenge is gone from A18.

 

I really hope GS affects zombie count in a big way.

 

Anyone play State of Decay? It should be like that. Zombies everywhere, inside and out, making every journey a thrill.

[Lorca]

I think the bigger problem is that zombies don't drop loot anymore. And the one stupid yellow bag that drops once in a blue moon does not count. It has made my excitement for killing them drop.

[hotpoon]

...

But, my biggest gripe isn't about the lack of zeds out in the middle of nowhere - I think that's about right..It's that afaik there's not a spawner that distinguishes towns from just an empty biome - so you get the same amount of zeds even when you're in a city - which is not enough. We used to have to 'clear towns' in order to even get in the POIs..now the towns are just flat empty aside from a couple strays (part of the biome spawner) and all the bulk of any zombies that we actually have to combat are sleeping in the houses.

 

I agree. I really miss the sheer number of zombies in towns pre A16. Even approaching a city or town in A15 was exciting, and then you started making noise looting and it was an adrenaline fest.

 

 

I'm glad to hear they reduced the ridiculousness of POI zombies (it still iritates me when I seen how they mysteriously hide in cabinets and fake ceilings lol), but hearing the majority claim the lack of zombies in the world, (a world where I'll assume is based off of our own), where there are 7 billion people, and yet devoid of the undead? Replaced with smaller numbers that are bullet sponges? Sorry, but that's a very weak way to address difficultly in a game.

 

So true. In a zombie game, I want the AI to be 'quantity over quality'. Stupid as mud but lots of them.

 

 

I think the bigger problem is that zombies don't drop loot anymore. And the one stupid yellow bag that drops once in a blue moon does not count. It has made my excitement for killing them drop.

 

Same, I also miss hacking up their corpses.

[Khulkhuum]

I could argue that it's not really immersive to have a group of zombies every 3 POIs you pass in a town.

 

I could argue that killing all 30 zombies on the streets at one time and coming back a couple days later having another 30 zombies roaming the streets is not immersive.

 

I could argue that killing a few Wandering Hordes in a small town would be more than that small town could have population and yet you'd be eager to kill another WH in that small town. It would not feel immersive.

 

I could argue that killing hundreds of Zs in a small area (something like Left 4 Dead) would empty the zombie population in a big radius, making more "waves" incoming not really immersive.

 

I could argue... But i do also feel the towns seem a bit empty, even though i encounter zombies from time to time. Still haven't been to a big city, so i dunno how the situation is there.

[Ghostlight]

I think the bigger problem is that zombies don't drop loot anymore. And the one stupid yellow bag that drops once in a blue moon does not count. It has made my excitement for killing them drop.

 

But...precious, precious experience!!

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I could argue that it's not really immersive to have a group of zombies every 3 POIs you pass in a town.

 

I could argue that killing all 30 zombies on the streets at one time and coming back a couple days later having another 30 zombies roaming the streets is not immersive.

 

I could argue that killing a few Wandering Hordes in a small town would be more than that small town could have population and yet you'd be eager to kill another WH in that small town. It would not feel immersive.

 

I could argue that killing hundreds of Zs in a small area (something like Left 4 Dead) would empty the zombie population in a big radius, making more "waves" incoming not really immersive.

 

I could argue... But i do also feel the towns seem a bit empty, even though i encounter zombies from time to time. Still haven't been to a big city, so i dunno how the situation is there.

 

I could argue: FUN >>> immersion

[Jeraal]

I think the bigger problem is that zombies don't drop loot anymore. And the one stupid yellow bag that drops once in a blue moon does not count. It has made my excitement for killing them drop.

 

In the game mentioned, I finally got a bag on the 67th zombie. Not sure how many zombies I've killed since then, but I haven't seen another.(enter yes-man saying just mod it)

 

I agree. I really miss the sheer number of zombies in towns pre A16. Even approaching a city or town in A15 was exciting, and then you started making noise looting and it was an adrenaline fest.

 

 

 

 

So true. In a zombie game, I want the AI to be 'quantity over quality'. Stupid as mud but lots of them.

 

 

 

 

Same, I also miss hacking up their corpses.

 

Totally agree with those points. Maybe they could at least make the bodies harvestable for bones, fat and rotten flesh even if they remain unlootable( is that a word, screw it, it is now).

[tricorius]

I'm ... mixed.

 

On one hand it *is* fun to kill zombies. On the other hand, it's irritating to be going somewhere with a goal in mind, be swarmed several times, and be completely distracted from ones' goal. I don't envy TFP on the creation of the game.

 

I try to think through "if it were my game, and / or had a magic wand scenario" ... what would I do.

 

I like the idea of the "encounters" engine that I've read about. It makes it feel a bit like D&D driven by a DM who wants you to succeed; but just by the hair of your chinny-chin-chin.

[Hollowprime]

I'd like to see more mega hordes (the bloodmoons after the first one are non stop hordes of murder and misery) but I'd also like to see more realistic hive mind approach something which we discussed in a previous thread. Basically adding big but standing hordes throughout the city which can be alerted when player pass by and swarm them.

[qbot3000]

I’m personally running into enough zombies to make it interesting. Less in the country, more in the cities. Zombies in the POIs, in interesting ways. Most are laying on ground, so if you’re careful you can deal with them ok. I’ve had some bust out of closets - that made it interesting. I’m on my toes now when I see a closet. Fortunately, haven’t had a single one pop out of midair right behind me like when they were first implemented. I think this is a good implementation.

 

I do miss the wandering hordes though. There was nothing like hearing the noise of mass shuffling and looking around to see if they were coming at you. Then making the decision to fight or run. Of course, that was back when zombies dropped loot. So a good horde could be profitable. Now I think with how hard the zombies are to kill at the lower levels, I would just run until I have guns.

[Ghostlight]

Wandering hordes are still there. 1 to 2 per day, about a half dozen zombies each. Spectacularly disappointing.

[Feycat]

We've got tons of both random wilderness zombies and quite large wandering hordes, playing on all default settings in Nav.

[AtomicUs5000]

I think something is wrong.

 

I see these posts about less zombies, but I get about the same as in A17.

I would say more, but I think it just feels like more because they hone in on me from all directions. What I experience is what Joel was talking about that every time he would go in to loot a POI, zombies start coming in from the outside... to the point where it starts to become a little annoying.

A run through the snow biome brings in so many lumberjacks it's ridiculous for me.

 

Perhaps there is some inconsistency in the code, or perhaps there is some setting that messes with it, or maybe this is an SP vs MP issue, but something seems off here.

[Guppycur]

Snow has a decent share, nothing like in the glory days but def a step above the other biomes.

 

I've never understood the fascination with wasteland because it's so ugly...

[hotpoon]

I think something is wrong.

 

I see these posts about less zombies, but I get about the same as in A17.

I would say more, but I think it just feels like more because they hone in on me from all directions. What I experience is what Joel was talking about that every time he would go in to loot a POI, zombies start coming in from the outside... to the point where it starts to become a little annoying.

A run through the snow biome brings in so many lumberjacks it's ridiculous for me.

 

Perhaps there is some inconsistency in the code, or perhaps there is some setting that messes with it, or maybe this is an SP vs MP issue, but something seems off here.

 

I wouldn't compare to A17. A17 didn't have enough outside and too many inside. A16 had a decent amount. A15 was best I think.

[Feycat]

We're only seeing them "home in" on us at the trader, but we're finding it almost impossible to leave the trader without jumping over the side and then dealing with zombies, because they crowd the door the moment you go in.

[Ghostlight]

I wouldn't compare to A17. A17 didn't have enough outside and too many inside. A16 had a decent amount. A15 was best I think.

 

Agreed on all fronts. We now have too few inside and outside. When 4 players enter a POI and encounter a half dozen zombies in total....YAAAAWN

[AtomicUs5000]

I wouldn't compare to A17. A17 didn't have enough outside and too many inside. A16 had a decent amount. A15 was best I think.

 

The point of my post wasn't the comparison of zombie counts with another version. It was the comparison in this version of the better numbers myself and some others are experiencing to another set of people who are getting far less.

[Ghostlight]

The biggest wandering horde I've seen was about 10 zombies. Do you consider that a decent amount? I consider it puny and pathetic, at least compared to A16.

 

My main problems is probably that I started this playthrough on default everything and they seem to have massively nerfed difficulty in this version. This is BY FAR the easiest, less threatening alpha by a long way. Haven't come close to dying yet, except when I tried taking on a pig on day 1 and when my mine collapsed.

[AtomicUs5000]

The biggest wandering horde I've seen was about 10 zombies.

 

That's about right. According to the XML, the largest possible is 11.

The animal wandering hordes range from 2 (zombie bears) to 8 (vultures).

The others range from 5 to 11.

A few could be nasty like 9 soldiers, 8 vultures, 8 bikers.

 

Of course the possibilities and combinations of zombies are endless by editing the xmls.

However, the number is limited by the defaults they were given for the sake of performance. We can beg and beg for more in the wandering hordes, but if the majority of the player base cannot handle the performance impact, it just will never happen.

I think what they really need to do is to make a few low-level generic zombies with a basic and very dumb AI, and then add like 10 of these generics into every wandering horde to just act as like a filler.

 

What I don't like about hordes in general in this game is that there just aren't enough zombie types. The types that do exist are too easily identified. When you get a horde with too many of one type, it just looks bad. The generic zombies could be all heavily decomposed, have drab coloring and torn clothing. Throw in just one or two of each of the classic zombies and you end up with a nice mix.

[Guppycur]

That's a bs argument that Joel makes too, because the game allows for how many on horde night? 64 by default?

 

...that tells me the design of the game says "64 is the limit for performance".

[Synvastian]

would love to see maybe a setup like days 1-4 (zombie level normal {what we have right now}) days 4-6 (zombie level more {like 25% more}) and on day 7 (zombie level high {50% more}) so it'd be like that every blood moon cycle, like they gather over time to wreak whatever life they smell/hear nearby (you)

 

This would allow ~4 days to rebuild and focus on looting ~2 days to repair Blood Moon base and finish finding what you'll need for the night ~ 1 whole day you can dedicate to fighting Zeds purely for XP and finally Blood Moon night, followed by the calm 4 days again

 

those %'s also increase the chances of wandering hoards (in my perfect world that is, idk how this would look as a code, other than logging every few days to increase spawns and back to lowering them every few more days)

[Eliphas the Inheritor]

I wouldn't compare to A17. A17 didn't have enough outside and too many inside. A16 had a decent amount. A15 was best I think.

 

If you tell that to Joel (like I did, tried to explain why I love A14) then he calls you nuts and other players calling you a troll..."Yeah, nice response Joel, good job. Well, your game gets more and more boring.".

 

They put too much focus on horde nights instead of having good amounts of outside zombies like in old alphas and there is that poor excuse named "it's bad for performance". I can easily go in Diersville and fire in the air without caring a bit or attracting any attention, the game is empty and boring.

 

No matter how much you modify the spawning.xml, you still can't get lots of zombies outside like in good old times, truly disappointing.

[AtomicUs5000]

That's a bs argument that Joel makes too, because the game allows for how many on horde night? 64 by default?

 

...that tells me the design of the game says "64 is the limit for performance".

 

It doesn't make sense to me either.

I also don't understand how they've been determining what the target for performance is when they are just now realizing they need low end computers to test on.

[qbot3000]

The biggest wandering horde I've seen was about 10 zombies. Do you consider that a decent amount? I consider it puny and pathetic, at least compared to A16.

 

My main problems is probably that I started this playthrough on default everything and they seem to have massively nerfed difficulty in this version. This is BY FAR the easiest, less threatening alpha by a long way. Haven't come close to dying yet, except when I tried taking on a pig on day 1 and when my mine collapsed.

 

I don’t agree. If anything, A16 was the easiest start. Maybe more zombies, but also quicker progression, so they were less threatening.

 

The catch 22 with A18 is that you start with awful quality weapons, which make it hard to kill zombies, but then you progress by killing zombies. They provide so much more XP than any other activity, that it’s really the only way. I really do wish they would bring back the massive wandering hordes though. Those were terrifying, and depending on your load out, sometimes you had no choice but to run for your life.

[Ghostlight]

I am really hoping that gamestage will ramp up zombie numbers as well as zombie types. If it doesn't then when the player gets to top tier items and fully fleshed out perks, the game is going to be an absolute joke on all difficulty levels.

 

In addition, the new preemptive swing the zombies now have is so easy to exploit I am not getting hurt any more. At All. Melee has never been easier (once you get it down, I had t adjust, but now that I have....lol).

 

Like I said in another thread, I am feeling so unthreatened that I am going out at night to do stuff, which we've never really done before.