KrashYT22 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 INTELLIGENCE RULES THE WORLD. I was terrified simply, but how so. The streamer was standing in the doorway, a zombie walking at him. From a zombie to a streamer, half a meter, here is a sweet prey for the dead. He must go, drooling, to cling to the victim's throat. BUT STOP. The victim puts in the aisle right in front of the zombies, wooden sharp stakes. Of course, if the zombie was stupid, he would go to the victim, which is directly in front of him, through the stakes.But our zombie was not such a simple fool. HE SHARPLY STOPPED, TURNED UP, WENT THROUGH TEN METERS AND STARTED TO BREAK THE ALUMINUM GARAGE WALLS IN ORDER TO NOT BREAK Well, the truth is, this is already absurd. The zombie decides to turn around, find a safer road, walk a 10 times greater distance, because there is an easier obstacle. WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY p.s. The translator wrote through Google, so that distortion of thought is possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliphas the Inheritor Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 INTELLIGENCE RULES THE WORLD. I was terrified simply, but how so. The streamer was standing in the doorway, a zombie walking at him. From a zombie to a streamer, half a meter, here is a sweet prey for the dead. He must go, drooling, to cling to the victim's throat. BUT STOP. The victim puts in the aisle right in front of the zombies, wooden sharp stakes. Of course, if the zombie was stupid, he would go to the victim, which is directly in front of him, through the stakes.But our zombie was not such a simple fool. HE SHARPLY STOPPED, TURNED UP, WENT THROUGH TEN METERS AND STARTED TO BREAK THE ALUMINUM GARAGE WALLS IN ORDER TO NOT BREAK Well, the truth is, this is already absurd. The zombie decides to turn around, find a safer road, walk a 10 times greater distance, because there is an easier obstacle. WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY p.s. The translator wrote through Google, so that distortion of thought is possible Because Madmole is very ignorant, he keeps praising A18 and keeps saying "Just play A18 and then come to complain". The truth is, zombies are still smart regardless of what he says. I really want to see where are the dumb zombies that he implied to be present in A18, I'm sooo curious, because I too watched some streams so yeah, got my proof there. He simply doesn't want to admit this fact because he is okay with it. "I am Madmole, I love smart smart zombies and I know we got them, but let's keep ignoring and denying that we do have them because I like the way the game is going". So yeaaah, prepare for some negative reputation from butthurt TFP fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hek Harris Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Because Madmole is very ignorant, he keeps praising A18 and keeps saying "Just play A18 and then come to complain". The truth is, zombies are still smart regardless of what he says. I really want to see where are the dumb zombies that he implied to be present in A18, I'm sooo curious, because I too watched some streams so yeah, got my proof there. He simply doesn't want to admit this fact because he is okay with it. "I am Madmole, I love smart smart zombies and I know we got them, but let's keep ignoring and denying that we do have them because I like the way the game is going". So yeaaah, prepare for some negative reputation from butthurt TFP fans. The world would be a much better place if you were a video game designer. Your respectful and measured opinion makes me really want to see you at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliphas the Inheritor Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 The world would be a much better place if you were a video game designer. Your respectful and measured opinion makes me really want to see you at work. Without us buying the game, TFP wouldn't exist, so yeah, got my rights to express my opinions since I bought their game, I don't have to be a video game designer to criticize. I have seen A18 in streams and I'm not excited at all to play, but will play regardless. I loved old 7 Days to Die versions (A1-A14), and no, I am not trolling and I'm serious. At least until bandits, npcs and more zombies outside will be introduced, there is no reason to be hyped. Hope I can refund it if A19+ will still be worse and worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtrakicking Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 At least until bandits, npcs and more zombies outside will be introduced, there is no reason to be hyped. Hope I can refund it if A19+ will still be worse and worse. I'm afraid refunds are only accepted if you've played less than 2 hours and you've owned the game for no more than a week. Well, good thing you can always roll back to A14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 The zombie pathing and AI is awesome. They challenge the player and the developers are continuing to work on them to keep their perfect knowledge from being so obvious. The behavior that you are calling “smart” is necessary pathing code to prevent zombies from getting stuck on terrain features. You are upset because you couldn’t throw down a 1 meter x 1 meter mass of spikes from your backpack in a single second and have the zombie become impaled. You rage against the unrealistic behavior of fictional creatures but disregard the unrealistic behavior of what you did. Don’t you think that more than seconds of preparation would be needed to set up a spike trap? Good news is that the game does reflect this. Dig out the ground or break out the floor and place the spikes flush with the surface the zombie is walking on and it will plow right into your spikes as stupidly as you always hoped. Throw spikes down like you’re casting a spell and in a similar magical way the zombies will avoid. But, put some realistic prep time into your spikes and you’ll get a more realistic response from your fictional targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quyxkh Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 It's really a shame that "git gud" got overused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrashYT22 Posted October 6, 2019 Author Share Posted October 6, 2019 Strange politics. You basically just do that by trolling players who point out problems. What does it have to do with quite a reasoned argument? A zombie has a mechanic, breaking a block 1 meter high if the second block is free. Here, the spikes also occupied 1 meter of height in the doorway. Why should I spend more time preparing so the zombies are not offended? Why does a zombie spend half a second on rebuilding paths instead of having to hang on the last action - “where he follows me”, and have time to step into the spikes in that second, and start breaking them to get to me. He eventually goes to break 2 blocks instead of one. He spends time on the road to other blocks, he breaks 2 blocks. And he breaks two blocks, instead of breaking the spikes, because on the path map, go to that wall and break those 2 blocks, faster than breaking wood spikes. And this attack of sarcasm, when there is a real problem, it is not even a hunch. It is nonsense . What for??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khulkhuum Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 I recently saw a video about how non-gaming people see gaming. A YT asked his wife to play a few different games (from different genres) to see how she manages (as a person that doesn't play any games on regular basis). One of conclusions was that acted in many ways like IRL, but the games many times pointed towards specific mechanics (for example, in Just Cause 2 climbing on a train wagon she wanted to go through a window and up through inside, but the game wanted to climb along the outside). She also didn't see many indicators or markers that regular games see instantly. So yeah, you think something is pretty straightforward or should be allowed, but there are specific game mechanics and rules you have to abide to. You can call this stupid, but if the game works in a way that zombies recognize spikes as a block then you have to place them one level lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricorius Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 I mean...it's a fictional work. TFPs' vision of "smart zombies" is just as feasible as a vision of "dumb zombies". I personally prefer the "dumber" version of zombies; but I think a lot of that is lore based. I don't really know the lore behind the zombies in 7DtD; so they may have a very good biological/physiological reason for "smart" zombies. (But I'm guessing it's mostly a "game mechanics" reason. :: shrug :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Its a pathing issue. It is better for zombies to not get stuck in voxel landscapes that can be altered and deformed in an uncountable number of different ways and for them to not spin in confusion when pathing problems arise. faatal's current pathing solves those problems beautifully. Unfortunately it also gives zombies perfect information. TFP have been and will continue to come up with ways to mask the fact that the zombies always know where you are and how to get to you. As behavior loops are found they will do what they can to close those loops but it all takes time and they have other priorities. Can you cheese the zombies by exploiting some of their behavior loops? yes. Should you? Yes if it is fun to come up with designs that do so and No if it makes you disgusted and mad and feels like cheating. As they dumb down the zombies they also are going to be looking for what makes for a challenging and horrifying experience and so my guess is that they will stop at a point that probably won't be acceptable to those who want completely moronic classic zombies. In fact, I think they are close to their goal for zombies with A18 but faatal recently said he has more ideas and things to add as time allows so it is still not quite at their intended place. One of the side effects of the current development plan is that spikes are seen as blocks and have a pathing cost associated with them which means that we as players must take that in account when strategizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrashYT22 Posted October 7, 2019 Author Share Posted October 7, 2019 In this case, the meaning of the mechanics of the trap itself is lost. For this is a barricade that should block the path, and zombies run into it. And in the end it is turned into stakes for a pit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khulkhuum Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 In this case, the meaning of the mechanics of the trap itself is lost. For this is a barricade that should block the path, and zombies run into it. And in the end it is turned into stakes for a pit. Mechanics of the trap aim for making an animal/person trapped, which means being held in one spot and not able to leave. Most dictionaries will tell you that. Traps in games and movies serve a purpose of heavily wounding or killing an intruder. This result can happen also in most real life traps as an animal will starve or bleed to death. On the other hand, there are various traps that do not aim to wound or kill (a tasty food under a box for example). Most importantly, think about how wooden spikes present themselves. They look as if they are almost a full block, which compared to barbed wire is way different. Even wooden log spikes looked more like a block and less than a trap. From a visual perspective, if someone put something big in front of me, i'd think about more of an obstruction, than something i would want to get into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glaston Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Prior to A17 there were constant whinges about how stupid zombies were. Spinning dogs, zombies wandering off , zombies getting stuck on terrain or odd blocks. Funpimps worked on this for A17 and it improved . A18 looks even better. I imagine sorting out the AI to get it into a state of happy medium for folks is probably one of the harder things to do in the game. But their will always be those who complain one way or another. For the naysayers and gloom merchants please go watch Jawoodle and listen to the sheer joy he gets over this alpha . Beheading bears Sending zombies into space Multiple head shots with one bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Nice Cup of Tea Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Why should I spend more time preparing so the zombies are not offended? I realise that this wording is a result of Google Translate, but I have to say that I'm amused by the thought of a zombie getting all offended at you for placing some spikes down where it was intending to walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanX Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Let's be honest here, the zombies turning and walking away is a problem. I've hit them in melee with nothing between me and them and they still walk away from me but yet are still looking for me. It's even funnier when a runner bolts away from you -in fear apparently- and starts attacking a cabinet or something. Chalk it up to random behavior? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khulkhuum Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Let's be honest here, the zombies turning and walking away is a problem. I've hit them in melee with nothing between me and them and they still walk away from me but yet are still looking for me. It's even funnier when a runner bolts away from you -in fear apparently- and starts attacking a cabinet or something. Chalk it up to random behavior? No one said the AI is perfect. It surely needs more polish and tweaks in some areas, but considering we went from walking on all fours to slowly walking on 2 legs (baby walking learning comparison) we've got some ways before running still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrashYT22 Posted October 7, 2019 Author Share Posted October 7, 2019 I really write through a translator. But in the context of the question, and the context of my answer to that question. I really wrote that I am told to spend more time creating traps. Otherwise, the zombie is offended, and leaves this trap. Here are again these words without declension. Resentment, offended, offend, zombies offended) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khulkhuum Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 KrashYT22 - If you're so against playing on A18 Experimental then perhaps wait when A18 Stable starts. Noone forces you to try out Experimental and Stable will be far better, considering various bugs that will come out in the time between. On the other hand, if you really don't like A18 on itself, then you either stop playing or download A17, A16 or earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrashYT22 Posted October 7, 2019 Author Share Posted October 7, 2019 Why was this said at all? There has never been a discussion of bugs or versions in this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khulkhuum Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 You're saying that there are absurd AI behaviors that you don't really understand and scream out that it is so wrong. What about zombies and animals running in circles prior to A17? What about enemies getting stuck in the terrain? What about dogs turning around mostly with their butts (and not whole bodies)? A18 Experimental is not even here, but you already complained about zombies being too smart, too much loot, broken world generator and other things. I don't really understand the reasons of complaining for the sole purpose of complaining (because this is how it looks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morloc Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 I really want to see where are the dumb zombies that he implied to be present in A18... Don't you understand?....it's a metaphor. WE are the dumb zombies! -Morloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrashYT22 Posted October 7, 2019 Author Share Posted October 7, 2019 I just stated the fact of the absurd behavior of zombies in the new version. For they said that intelligence is a little processed by zombies in an adequate way. But everything remained as in the 17th. And I did not say that I did not understand, I understand everything, but understanding does not solve anything. Yes, dogs are equally annoying, I think it's annoying everyone, but what's next? I have not yet managed to see the behavior of animals in its entirety, but in my opinion it was corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlinfire Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 I did like zombies being a little smarter but I do feel they are a bit too smart now. passive static defenses don't do nearly as much for you as they used to. i'm hoping it will be a little easier to get turrets in this release. some active defenses are really needed to make up the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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