Feedback for The Fun Pimps on Alpha 17

[Jedo]

It's become apparent to me in my short time here that if this game is ever fun again, it'll be because a modder did it. Not only is the base game not fun now, I don't see any signs that the dev team will ever make the base game fun again.

 

I'm really glad I got to experience A15 and A16 and those were worth my money. RIP.

 

Thanks for sharing your opinion. By contrast, my friend and I are having more fun than we did in A15 or A16. (We would rank 16 as the lowest.)

[PoppaTot]

Thanks for sharing your opinion. By contrast, my friend and I are having more fun than we did in A15 or A16. (We would rank 16 as the lowest.)

 

Thanks for sharing your opinion. By contrast, my friends and I are enjoying A17+ but feel that if TFP would have given A16.4 the new graphics, vehicles, and POIs that the game would have been perfect. (We would rank 16 the highest.)

[Roland]

Thanks for sharing your opinions.

[PoppaTot]

Thanks for sharing your opinions.

 

Disappointed in the lack of opinion in your Thanks for sharing your opinions post.

[Roland]

You know what I mean.

The guy calling the shots, you know, the artist, says "ah screw it, let's get minibike in".

Community is like "huh? fix the game dude". "too late folks, it's in!" "but it's falling under the ground all the time?" - "whatever"

Then again, the same guy, you know, the artist, says "ah screw it, let's get traders and 4x4 jeep in".

Community is like "huh? the game still has no main storyline? where are the raiders? wth are these MMO skill trees? btw minibike is still falling under the ground!" - "whatever"

Do I really have to go on.

 

This is not an accurate representation of what has gone on behind the scenes. You are making assumptions that aren't correct. You only need to go on if the stories you are telling yourself help you cope with the development process.

 

All of these pointless, unpolished, hastily implemented features, starting from terrible, horrible Blunderbuss, which was completely not ♥♥♥♥ing needed in the game, is literally not having any function being worse than a bone shiv as a weapon, and is a waste of crafting materials, are taking time from both artist, and coders.

Meanwhile, we have completely unoptimized textures and the game rendering entire ♥♥♥♥ing world through the floor, not to mention the full bug report forum, as we are stuck in alpha for 2.5 years.

So yeah, there are more relevant things to do for both artist and the coders.

 

We have not been in alpha for 2.5 years. We have been in alpha for about 5 years. That is 2.5 extra years worth of time for someone like you to learn that during the development process things are often not polished up to shipable form. They are left rough on purpose. This dev team also has used a lot of the time for experimenting with different systems and trying things that may or may not end up in this game. With 2.5 extra years than you thought you had in Alpha you would think you could learn it's best not to marry yourself to anything that could eventually get cut or changed.

 

I've seen enough projects when CEO is calling the shots on what is going into next build on his whim, without any development roadmap and feature planning whatsoever, and know exactly what dumpster they end in.

 

Yeah, those projects (when they actually happen) probably do have problems. Of course, I've seen enough gamers acting like armchair developers even when their predominate business with video games is just to play them as a time waster but acting like they have the inside knowledge on what it takes to bring a successful game to market.

 

That being said, the console release was a very smart move, despite the vocal whining from the community "huh guys, how about fixing the game first and getting out of endless alpha?" - "too late, coming out soon on consoles!"

So at the very least the devs couldn't care less now, since they have sold more than enough to console plebs.

I had my share of fun with the game, really, 2 years ago. And I pity the kickstarters who actually paid more than anyone for this development in hopes for a great game.

 

Some kickstarters will no doubt be disappointed with how things are turning out but others are extremely happy. It all comes down to preference and TFP isn't going to please everyone. I'm glad you had your share of fun and really hope you are able to have fun with it again in the future.

[Roland]

On one point I agree with you, selling the console version without a proper big "EA" label was not ok. The question is whether TFP knew or could have foreseen this would happen when they sold the console rights to Telltale.

 

That particular decision was out of their hands completely. As the publisher, Telltale was in charge of packaging and distribution. Labels such as "Early Access" would have been their decision completely. The game was always billed as a complete game based on the A14 architecture and not Early Access. The console version is definitely not early access in the same way that the PC version is.

[UrtZ]

50+ hours of A17 feedback

 

Started a new SP game in Navezgane, the last time I played there was A14 or something like that, all the other time played in RandomGen.

 

 

I guess, every building was renewed in A17? That was friggin much work to do! Looks like every house is unique, not a copy-paste as before. Really great.

 

Zed's AI - digging and pathfinding avoiding traps. Nice.

 

Transport.

Fine, but needs speed up. Didn't used jeep or heli yet.

Needs modding as weapons. In A16 i looked for better wheels or engine. In A17 - no point. Sad.

 

Weapon and gear customisation. It's nice in fact of existance, but have some flaws.

- no info in mod's description what it is suitable for.

- no info what mods are conflicting.

- all the mods increase all the stats equally, even the painting lifts the stats.

- some mods just don;t work - healing grip for melee and spotlight for headgear.

- mod's blueprint is a single use only. Ridiculous. That must be strong point of blueprint comparing with finding complete mod: you must have leveled Science and components, but in exchange you can build as much as you need.

 

Level up system

- very slow start and killing zeds is only way to level up as digging and trading is not an option.

- fine idea with points per level, but some skills are too expensive this way - Cardio or Hunter, for example. I'm 100+ level, still no points in these. You should give 10 points per level and rise cost more constantly, not only on top skill levels. This way i'd took 1-2 points of cardio or hunter, as it becomes relatively cheap.

- again, very slow start in digging - STR, 69er and block damage perk + INT ang many perks for crafting pickaxes. And on top, level requirements for all of these.

- one skill is defining quality of ALL crafting. In A16 weapons, armors, tools, etc were separate.

- no stats rising with items quality (not mentioning mod slots).

General idea: more points per level, more skills, skills getting expensive with every stage. So the player can easily get some stages in all the skils, but have to spend some time to master some skills.

 

 

Zeds leveling

Levelscaling - the curse of many modern RPGs. Remember TESOblivion with every single enemy in "very rare" top full Daedric gear? Ridiculous, right? The same here with green zeds. Totally agree with author of topic "game punishes me for levelling up". When you know there are 30+% greens on POI, you just lose interest in it. IF I see a green biker - i just turn around and go away. No point - very risky, very long time, very tiring.

THen, as in TESOblivion , no reward - loot in boxes on top floors is the same.

 

On top, very rare drop from all the bodies, liked drop in A16 much more.

 

Interface

- hunger and thirst have to be always on a screen

- no info about almost completely broken armor

- food, weapon, gear descriptions - constant choosing between stats and desc tabs. Have to be on a single tab.

- food descriptions - unclear, sometimes incorrect. Example - charred and grilled meat, no difference in stats

 

Bugs and imbalance

- power atack stops stamina refilling for a couple of seconds, that makes it expensive.

- illness - unclear "something is comming" and sudden infection with one moment complete demplishing stamina. A16 was much better.

- not sure, but Light armor perk seems not working. At least, not in stats.

- moded weapon shows different stats in inventory and modding screens.

- as mentioned before, some mods just don;t work - healing grip for melee and spotlight for headgear.

- mining helmet described as heavy, but uses mods as light

- crossbow - completely broken: non-cancelabe reload, second reload when zoom out, wasting stamina on zoom-in.

- no bones and fat from defeated zeds - makes you playing with a club for a very long time, as no bones for a shiv, and metal knife is a mid-game item. Also, torch and candle becomes super-rare.

- wood window - needs only wood in crafting, gives only glass on destruction.

[Asuzu]

This is not an accurate representation of what has gone on behind the scenes. You are making assumptions that aren't correct. You only need to go on if the stories you are telling yourself help you cope with the development process.

 

Thank you for clarifying then. I will try not to jump to assumptions.

 

Would it be possible to see a roadmap for the next few builds?

What bugfixes and features are planned exactly over the next, let's say 3 months worth of sprints (or whatever development cycle you guys are doing)?

I believe, we, as both paying customers and Alpha testers, deserve to know.

 

If there is no such information available, you have to agree with me this is not looking good on development planning side at all.

[Roland]

Thank you for clarifying then. I will try not to jump to assumptions.

 

Would it be possible to see a roadmap for the next few builds?

What bugfixes and features are planned exactly over the next, let's say 3 months worth of sprints (or whatever development cycle you guys are doing)?

I believe, we, as both paying customers and Alpha testers, deserve to know.

 

If there is no such information available, you have to agree with me this is not looking good on development planning side at all.

 

Such information exists but most is not released publicly. What has been released to us publicly is the recent post in the announcement forums regarding the state of A17. In that post, plans for changes to A17 were given. I can confirm that some things from that list are already implemented and ready to go whenever A17.2 drops.

 

Here is the given list of planned fixes and changes:

 

1) optimizations

2) stamina

3) balancing XP for all play styles

4) land claims

5) increasing zombie loot drop chance

6) zombie block damage

7) skill/perk balance and gating

8) random world gen improvements.

 

 

I think you are attaching too much entitlement to what your money purchased for you. Early access to the development version of the potentially fully released game is what your $$ was for. It wasn't for a seat at the table during TFP internal team meetings. Even the guys who paid $100s to have their portraits plastered on every wall of every POI got exactly what they paid for and also did not gain access to internal development roadmaps and team planning meetings.

[Asuzu]

That brings some confidence, even if knowing there is actually some team meeting and planning going on.

Thank you for clarifying man.

[Canaaar]

look at the chart ♥♥♥♥pimp you ruind the game. and i want my money back.

[SnowDog1942]

Such information exists but most is not released publicly. What has been released to us publicly is the recent post in the announcement forums regarding the state of A17. In that post, plans for changes to A17 were given. I can confirm that some things from that list are already implemented and ready to go whenever A17.2 drops.

 

Here is the given list of planned fixes and changes:

 

1) optimizations

2) stamina

3) balancing XP for all play styles

4) land claims

5) increasing zombie loot drop chance

6) zombie block damage

7) skill/perk balance and gating

8) random world gen improvements.

 

 

I think you are attaching too much entitlement to what your money purchased for you. Early access to the development version of the potentially fully released game is what your $$ was for. It wasn't for a seat at the table during TFP internal team meetings. Even the guys who paid $100s to have their portraits plastered on every wall of every POI got exactly what they paid for and also did not gain access to internal development roadmaps and team planning meetings.

 

More stamina changes to make the game easier? May as well just remove it.

[HeLLKnight]

I think you are attaching too much entitlement to what your money purchased for you. Early access to the development version of the potentially fully released game is what your $$ was for. It wasn't for a seat at the table during TFP internal team meetings. Even the guys who paid $100s to have their portraits plastered on every wall of every POI got exactly what they paid for and also did not gain access to internal development roadmaps and team planning meetings.

 

 

However, since A17 the game is getting many negative reviews here and on Steam, wouldn't it be a good time to give more information on what is going on, other than a few fixes for 17.2? other than that, we know nothing at all. Look at the early access notes 7d2d has on Steam:

 

“7 Days to Die thrusts players into the aftermath of the fall of civilization with only their wits and bare hands to survive. In this continually evolving title currently in alpha stage development, players must explore the open world alone or with friends to build tools, weapons and shelter against the dangers of the reanimated dead, infected wildlife and the world itself.”

 

How old and generic is this piece of text? I understand why TFP may fear to give too much info or dates. We don't need all the details, but at least we should talk superficially: what are the plans for this quarter? and this year? are we going to get new alphas faster than in the past? what big features remain to implement before leaving early access? what are we going to get after release?

 

Maybe you think we don't deserve to stay up to date. Stay up to date with customers is something you do because we would really apreciate and you apreciate us, not because we deserve it or not. And because this can bring to more sales. When you compare 7d2d with many other early access games with very detailed roadmaps and info, its knees tremble.

[Roland]

More stamina changes to make the game easier? May as well just remove it.

 

Stamina was done for 17.1.

[Roland]

However, since A17 the game is getting many negative reviews here and on Steam, wouldn't it be a good time to give more information on what is going on, other than a few fixes for 17.2? other than that, we know nothing at all. Look at the early access notes 7d2d has on Steam:

 

That is the general description of game and its setting. That’s like pointing to a recipe book and asking why it says nothing about the geo-political climate of the world. Maybe you should look at the Kickstarter goals and stretch goals? Seems like a more appropriate selection of text to analyze. If you subtract what has already been implemented from that list and then see what is left you’ll no longer be able to say you have no idea what is coming.

 

How old and generic is this piece of text? I understand why TFP may fear to give too much info or dates. We don't need all the details, but at least we should talk superficially: what are the plans for this quarter? and this year? are we going to get new alphas faster than in the past? what big features remain to implement before leaving early access? what are we going to get after release?

 

Google: Kickstarter

Search: 7 Days to Die

Scroll down to see the big features remaining.

 

Superficially they hope to finish this game this year. They hope for a much shorter dev cycle for A18. Devs have said they plan to continue to update at least two years after release.

 

Maybe you think we don't deserve to stay up to date. Stay up to date with customers is something you do because we would really apreciate and you apreciate us, not because we deserve it or not. And because this can bring to more sales. When you compare 7d2d with many other early access games with very detailed roadmaps and info, its knees tremble.

 

Up to date? You had that in my previous post. That list is what they are working on now and so now you can consider yourself up to date. What you want is future and you SAID general and superficial future info is okay but since you already have that too I’m guessing that what you actually want is specific and detailed future info.

 

When Madmole starts the A18 dev thread he’ll give some more information about A18 but until that happens TFP is mostly going to keep you up to date with their current work which is still A17. If Madmole started talking A18 right now we would get angry posts from people telling us to finish fixing A17 before moving on to A18.

[Jedo]

If Madmole started talking A18 right now we would get angry posts from people telling us to finish fixing A17 before moving on to A18.

 

I'm surprised that we haven't had posts like that already.

[KrashYT22]

Stamina was done for 17.1.

 

Developers do not need help writing scripts? It is the game scripts, as well as the mechanic scripts. Roughly, I have been doing this for 8 years. And could help for free balancing, and the whole system of perks. And similar

[meganoth]

Maybe you think we don't deserve to stay up to date. Stay up to date with customers is something you do because we would really apreciate and you apreciate us, not because we deserve it or not. And because this can bring to more sales. When you compare 7d2d with many other early access games with very detailed roadmaps and info, its knees tremble.

 

If you are interested in gossip, i.e. infos that developers carelessly dropped on occasion (), A17 probably will get a new RWG that allows a more "organic" placement of zones, i.e. no desert and frost zone touch or hills have a higher chance of frost, stuff like that. AI is made fit for bandits and bandits should be in the game before release. A much shorter dev cycle for A18 is planned, with more weapon and armor mods in the works. There was also some talk (in the time before A17 was released to us) that additional quest types are planned.

 

I'm surprised that we haven't had posts like that already.

 

Did somone say A18? Hey, no excuses, I definitely heard A18.

[KrashYT22]

If you are interested in gossip, i.e. infos that developers carelessly dropped on occasion (), A17 probably will get a new RWG that allows a more "organic" placement of zones, i.e. no desert and frost zone touch or hills have a higher chance of frost, stuff like that. AI is made fit for bandits and bandits should be in the game before release. A much shorter dev cycle for A18 is planned, with more weapon and armor mods in the works. There was also some talk (in the time before A17 was released to us) that additional quest types are planned.

 

 

 

I don't know whether this is a joke or not. But the developers have said this a long time ago, and not as gossip. Even when only 17 alpha was made. So they said that the gangsters will most likely be in 18 alpha, before the release

[RestInPieces]

Any gossip about A18 being the last version before "release"?

[fragtzack]

Got to high enough level and enough play time in to experience a lot of a17.1. a17.1 is a huge step forward and the release is much appreciated.

 

While the perk system is not perfect and some other issues ("see game punishes me for level up threads in general"), a17 is a big thumbs up from me.

 

About the perk system:

 

Strongly disagree with folks that are saying zombie killing is the only way to advance. With 17.1, you get a lot of xp from mining. Xp from mining that is very safe and steady. If anything, mining XP is too much now.

 

While I think the gating and systems as a whole could use some tweaks, bunch of glass half empty folks complaining about having to kill zombies and not play as a miner/crafter only. That old skill use system encouraged boring grinding where as I see the new xp system gating allow you to more naturally progress doing whatever actions you want to do.

[Roland]

Any gossip about A18 being the last version before "release"?

 

The gossip is that if they can keep the version focused and release A18 in 3 months there will probably be an A19. But if A18 stretches 6 months or more it will probably be the last one. But that's just gossip.

[Roland]

Posted a thread detailing the dev's goals. Check it out if you are feeling roadmappish.

 

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?109299-7-Days-to-Die-Goals-and-Stretch-Goals&p=944391#post944391

[Guppycur]

Love royals idea...

[RestInPieces]

The gossip is that if they can keep the version focused and release A18 in 3 months there will probably be an A19. But if A18 stretches 6 months or more it will probably be the last one. But that's just gossip.

 

Put the hard-boiled detective I see in your avatar to work and get some spicy info out of these dev guys!