BobTheBard Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 ...it also shouldn't be removed entirely. Instead, I think Pack Mule and inventory management in general would be best handled as an item-based solution. Right now it feels a bit weird that I need to invest points to carry more stuff despite already having the strength. Am I learning how to carry stuff more efficiently? Why would I just not go the obvious route and pick up one of the many, many bags I find lying around to carry more stuff in? Thus my proposal here. Give each survivor a new equipment slot for a Backpack and make inventory capacity and encumbrance dependent on that. You'd start with the same amount you have now. A basic plant-fiber bag could add, say, 4 slots (equivalent to Pack Mule 1). A simple leather bag could add 9 (Pack Mule 2) and could be made with leather and plant fiber as soon as you get a source of leather. An Old Duffel Bag or Old Backpack still in serviceable condition could be found as loot or bought and would give 15 slots (Pack Mule 3). Both the Leather Bag and the Old Backpack could be upgraded to a Sturdy Leather Backpack with a workbench and the right materials, giving 21 slots (Pack Mule 4). And the king of them all would be the Hiker's Backpack, craftable from scrap polymer and forged iron with the right crafting perk and a workbench or found as rare loot, giving 27 slots (Pack Mule 5). But wait, I hear many people already saying, wouldn't this mean you lose your carrying capacity on death? Well, yes, it would. Why do I think that's not a problem? The first is easy enough, a setting could be added that says you don't drop your backpack item (just its contents) when you die. But secondly, you generally don't take that much with you when you go back to get your stuff anyway. And now not going back for it has the added element of 'Crap, I lost my shiny new hiker pack!' This might not be a huge deal for a mid-level crafter who can make a new one (though it would take time and resources) but would be a much bigger issue for the scavenger who got a little too greedy and died in a dangerous place. I think this idea would be of benefit to a lot of different groups. Crafters will be happy they don't need to invest heavily in Strength to have a decent carrying capacity anymore. Scavengers will be happy they don't need to invest heavily in Strength to have a decent carrying capacity anymore. Hardcore players will enjoy the thrill of potentially losing their inventory space if they overreach too much, or the balance of making sure you can afford to lose not just your stuff but the thing you're carrying it all with. And realists will like the idea of someone not being able to haul 40 shovels around while swinging a sledgehammer without some kind of carrying device. What does everyone think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viktoriusiii Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 I have voiced a lot of criticism. But I think this system is fine as it is. It needs to be better balanced (higher starting inventory, less requirements for max perk) but the system itself is fine. Reworking this again would take away from other, way WAY more important things. Not saying your system is bad. It might even be better in the long run. But the time invested in the rework isnt worth the end result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 its easy to mod it a way you like it Instead of explaining it here a quote Backpack mod 60 Slots Adapted version of https://7daystodie.com/forums/member.php?154805-stedman420 mod https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?94502-A17-Simple-UI-Modlets Vanilla you start with 18 Slots you cant encumber Stedman420 set the value to 33 I set the value to 25 (Vanilla+ allready give skillpoints at start and reduce the abilitygate at pack mule) No Perk With all perks (looks like some mods would be a nice idea) If you want the mods more powerfull reduce the Slots you cant fill without being encumbered and raise the amount of slots the mods will unlock I currently wait for Stedmans ok to use his mod as base for mine. But his mod is good written and easy to adapt how you want it, and as long as you dont offer a download you are free to edit it how ever you want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HungryZombie Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 ...it also shouldn't be removed entirely. Instead, I think Pack Mule and inventory management in general would be best handled as an item-based solution. Right now it feels a bit weird that I need to invest points to carry more stuff despite already having the strength. Am I learning how to carry stuff more efficiently? Why would I just not go the obvious route and pick up one of the many, many bags I find lying around to carry more stuff in? Thus my proposal here. Give each survivor a new equipment slot for a Backpack and make inventory capacity and encumbrance dependent on that. You'd start with the same amount you have now. A basic plant-fiber bag could add, say, 4 slots (equivalent to Pack Mule 1). A simple leather bag could add 9 (Pack Mule 2) and could be made with leather and plant fiber as soon as you get a source of leather. An Old Duffel Bag or Old Backpack still in serviceable condition could be found as loot or bought and would give 15 slots (Pack Mule 3). Both the Leather Bag and the Old Backpack could be upgraded to a Sturdy Leather Backpack with a workbench and the right materials, giving 21 slots (Pack Mule 4). And the king of them all would be the Hiker's Backpack, craftable from scrap polymer and forged iron with the right crafting perk and a workbench or found as rare loot, giving 27 slots (Pack Mule 5). But wait, I hear many people already saying, wouldn't this mean you lose your carrying capacity on death? Well, yes, it would. Why do I think that's not a problem? The first is easy enough, a setting could be added that says you don't drop your backpack item (just its contents) when you die. But secondly, you generally don't take that much with you when you go back to get your stuff anyway. And now not going back for it has the added element of 'Crap, I lost my shiny new hiker pack!' This might not be a huge deal for a mid-level crafter who can make a new one (though it would take time and resources) but would be a much bigger issue for the scavenger who got a little too greedy and died in a dangerous place. I think this idea would be of benefit to a lot of different groups. Crafters will be happy they don't need to invest heavily in Strength to have a decent carrying capacity anymore. Scavengers will be happy they don't need to invest heavily in Strength to have a decent carrying capacity anymore. Hardcore players will enjoy the thrill of potentially losing their inventory space if they overreach too much, or the balance of making sure you can afford to lose not just your stuff but the thing you're carrying it all with. And realists will like the idea of someone not being able to haul 40 shovels around while swinging a sledgehammer without some kind of carrying device. What does everyone think? This just brings things back to the debate between RNG and Buying with Perks. Like the discussion about skill books. Someone might never find a bigger backpack while someone else will find 10 backpacks. I can work with either system so if you get them to change on this more power to ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobTheBard Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 This just brings things back to the debate between RNG and Buying with Perks. Like the discussion about skill books. Someone might never find a bigger backpack while someone else will find 10 backpacks. I can work with either system so if you get them to change on this more power to ya. That's why you'd make sure every tier of backpack would be craftable, eventually, from relatively common materials. This means the RNG element will eventually go away if you choose to invest perks in making it go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HungryZombie Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 That's why you'd make sure every tier of backpack would be craftable, eventually, from relatively common materials. This means the RNG element will eventually go away if you choose to invest perks in making it go away. I hear you. I would expect though that they would lock the larger bags behind perks in the INT tree though and we'd be back to square one lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyris Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Or insted of punishing us for using inventory space, just remove the encunbrance entirely and just give us the 45 slot inventory. I mean the base inventory is smaller than a16 in terms of unencumbered slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Or insted of punishing us for using inventory space, just remove the encunbrance entirely and just give us the 45 slot inventory. I mean the base inventory is smaller than a16 in terms of unencumbered slots. with a bit balance the new system works. But its simply to strong perked/gated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saera Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Perhaps it would be nice if the slots opened up automatically as you put points into strength, without having to spend extra points on pack mule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quyxkh Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 You can easily get through at least the first week spending nothing on pack mule and not more than a minute or so total doing inventory triage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 You can easily get through at least the first week spending nothing on pack mule and not more than a minute or so total doing inventory triage. Not if you play as i do. There are many things affect that * Loot abundance * How often you visit a trader * Distance to trader * Distance to next pois you loot the first week * Do you have a bike * Do you build big * ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katitof Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Encumbrance wouldn't be an issue if drop tables were altered so the pockets mods would drop a bit more commonly, its ultra rare to see single pocket and I have yet to see 2 or 3 pockets mod after 50 hours, given my hoarding all for himself friend I play with might have found one and hidden it away, but still, its a bit too uncommon for my taste, even having barter 5/5 and checking all traders every reset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy83 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 ...it also shouldn't be removed entirely. Instead, I think Pack Mule and inventory management in general would be best handled as an item-based solution. Right now it feels a bit weird that I need to invest points to carry more stuff despite already having the strength. Am I learning how to carry stuff more efficiently? Why would I just not go the obvious route and pick up one of the many, many bags I find lying around to carry more stuff in? Thus my proposal here. Give each survivor a new equipment slot for a Backpack and make inventory capacity and encumbrance dependent on that. You'd start with the same amount you have now. A basic plant-fiber bag could add, say, 4 slots (equivalent to Pack Mule 1). A simple leather bag could add 9 (Pack Mule 2) and could be made with leather and plant fiber as soon as you get a source of leather. An Old Duffel Bag or Old Backpack still in serviceable condition could be found as loot or bought and would give 15 slots (Pack Mule 3). Both the Leather Bag and the Old Backpack could be upgraded to a Sturdy Leather Backpack with a workbench and the right materials, giving 21 slots (Pack Mule 4). And the king of them all would be the Hiker's Backpack, craftable from scrap polymer and forged iron with the right crafting perk and a workbench or found as rare loot, giving 27 slots (Pack Mule 5). But wait, I hear many people already saying, wouldn't this mean you lose your carrying capacity on death? Well, yes, it would. Why do I think that's not a problem? The first is easy enough, a setting could be added that says you don't drop your backpack item (just its contents) when you die. But secondly, you generally don't take that much with you when you go back to get your stuff anyway. And now not going back for it has the added element of 'Crap, I lost my shiny new hiker pack!' This might not be a huge deal for a mid-level crafter who can make a new one (though it would take time and resources) but would be a much bigger issue for the scavenger who got a little too greedy and died in a dangerous place. I think this idea would be of benefit to a lot of different groups. Crafters will be happy they don't need to invest heavily in Strength to have a decent carrying capacity anymore. Scavengers will be happy they don't need to invest heavily in Strength to have a decent carrying capacity anymore. Hardcore players will enjoy the thrill of potentially losing their inventory space if they overreach too much, or the balance of making sure you can afford to lose not just your stuff but the thing you're carrying it all with. And realists will like the idea of someone not being able to haul 40 shovels around while swinging a sledgehammer without some kind of carrying device. What does everyone think? https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?101208-Inventory-reworked&highlight=inventory+reworked Check that out, I'm with you here, I'd love a little more rng in the game and not a system that holds your hand all the way to endgame, make people suffer, make people yearn for that elusive يtem they need. Obviously what I proposed in that thread lacks proper balance, it's just an idea for a more active progression, with the current system the only thing you yearn is xp to buy some random perk and you're done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawofJohn Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 or they could change it completely again. What I mean is, scrap the current version of Pack mule, let us hold all the slots. Instead, make pack mule maybe increase stack sizes? I always have to mod the max amount of items in a stack whenever an update hits. It get tiresome after a while. Pack mule sounds, to me atleast, just from the name you should be able to hold more in each slot. Maybe I am weird that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaVegaNL Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Or insted of punishing us for using inventory space, just remove the encunbrance entirely and just give us the 45 slot inventory. I mean the base inventory is smaller than a16 in terms of unencumbered slots. Yeah. And let us start with a minibike and a purple shotgun too. I mean, who likes difficulty anyway.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Yeah. And let us start with a minibike and a purple shotgun too. I mean, who likes difficulty anyway.. Well, not this kind of difficulty. I like challanges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stasis78 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 As long as you can put a 4x4, motorcycle, and gyrocopter all on your belt at the same time; seems like a moot point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katitof Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 or they could change it completely again. What I mean is, scrap the current version of Pack mule, let us hold all the slots. Instead, make pack mule maybe increase stack sizes? I always have to mod the max amount of items in a stack whenever an update hits. It get tiresome after a while. Pack mule sounds, to me atleast, just from the name you should be able to hold more in each slot. Maybe I am weird that way. Inventory management is a very important part of survival games, suggestion like yours or just "endless" expanding of backpack take that away and turn it into plain minecraft with sharper textures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellsmoke Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Perhaps it would be nice if the slots opened up automatically as you put points into strength, without having to spend extra points on pack mule. This would be a soultion I could live with. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stasis78 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Inventory management is a very important part of survival games, suggestion like yours or just "endless" expanding of backpack take that away and turn it into plain minecraft with sharper textures. Depends on how you like to play the game really. I’m a collector and a builder. Having a small backpack just makes things annoying. That said I always play with mods so the defaults can be whatever MM and team decide is best. I’ll play it my way anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quyxkh Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Not if you play as i do. That's the point. There's perfectly fun and viable playstyles that don't need any points in pack mule at all. Doing without _any_ of the perks is a bit of a challenge. You want to rack up rewards by running errands for the trader then sure, put points into pack mule, load up on everything in sight and ferry it all back to the trader. Just don't complain that you can't do that _and_ other things all right from the get go. Choices. * Do you build big Building big doesn't need inventory slots. I know, it does if you play as you do, so choose that path and let others choose other paths. I can't be a kickass bow sniper _and_ three-hit doors _and_ build a forge _and_ run all over the map _and_ hoover up everything in sight all in the first week, not on stock settings, is that bad? I think maybe the game difficulty settings could alter stamina regen and encumbrance slots along with nerfing the zombies, there sure do seem to be a lot of players who regard having to choose as a bad thing, if they're so ragingly mad that the game forces hard choices on them and you can ease off on those players by tweaking rates or limits, well, why not? Change the difficulty level names, "It's a Wonderland!", "Hey, not too rough!", "Okay, Hurt Me.", "It Hurts. I Like It.", "Well You DID Say Apocalypse".. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stasis78 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 I seriously doubt much will change with the current pack. It is bigger than previous alphas with all perks unlocked. It’s never been an issue until encumbrance came along. Yes it will be balanced but I don’t see custom backpacks for size and encumbrance coming. Ideas are great and people should share them. Just don’t expect them to make the vanilla game. This is what mods are for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 That's the point. There's perfectly fun and viable playstyles that don't need any points in pack mule at all. Doing without _any_ of the perks is a bit of a challenge. You want to rack up rewards by running errands for the trader then sure, put points into pack mule, load up on everything in sight and ferry it all back to the trader. Just don't complain that you can't do that _and_ other things all right from the get go. Choices. Building big doesn't need inventory slots. I know, it does if you play as you do, so choose that path and let others choose other paths. I can't be a kickass bow sniper _and_ three-hit doors _and_ build a forge _and_ run all over the map _and_ hoover up everything in sight all in the first week, not on stock settings, is that bad? I think maybe the game difficulty settings could alter stamina regen and encumbrance slots along with nerfing the zombies, there sure do seem to be a lot of players who regard having to choose as a bad thing, if they're so ragingly mad that the game forces hard choices on them and you can ease off on those players by tweaking rates or limits, well, why not? Change the difficulty level names, "It's a Wonderland!", "Hey, not too rough!", "Okay, Hurt Me.", "It Hurts. I Like It.", "Well You DID Say Apocalypse".. There's perfectly fun and viable playstyles that are screwed with the current early game. Thats right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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