meganoth

Ok, I did the test: Made a new map with no zombies, perked myself fully in Machine Gunner and Rule1 Cardio and nothing else and lootet every general book container I could find, i.e. NewsDispensers, Mailboxes, Bookshelfs, Bookpiles, LootCrateBookStore and Bookcase. Did not bother to count how many containers I looted, and threw away any of the schematics and recipes, just kept paper and the magazines. After 1 day I had 28 Tactical Warface and 56 other magazines in sum. With 200% bonus per perk point aka 1000% bonus fully perked binf_shinanas formula predicted that 33% of all magazines would be Tactical Warface. Actual result: 28/(56+28)= 0.333333 aka 33%. Perfect fit. After another day I had 56 Tactical Warfare and 113 of everything else. 56/(56+113)= 0.33136 aka 33%. Again perfect fit. So the XML is right, it is a 200% bonus per perk point (in other words each perk points puts 2 more balls to the original one ball in the pool) The ball analogy is an excellent way to show what that means. One point in such a perk means that you find 3 magazines of this type for each of all the other magazines. Two points means you will find 5 magazines of this type for each of all the other magazines. Consequently with 2 perk points you will reach 100 with that magazine while all other unperked magazines are still at 20 (excluding any effects of specialized loot containers or buying mags) And that can't be right. I will make a bug report.

Look at the formula binf_shinana has posted. A bonus of 20% would lead to this magazine being found with a chance of (1+.2)/(23+.2) = 0.0517 and every other magazine with a chance of 0.043. A minimal difference you would not be able to notice at all. And I assume that is what you meant to say, and that is exactly how we interpret it as well. Yes, we assume that there are 0.2 more balls in the pool when adding that 20% chance.

Exactly. And these numbers conform with my experience how the magazines drop in actual gameplay. I think an easy test would be to start a new game with zombies turned off, get exactly one (preferably weapon) perk to 5 (prob= 33%) and loot all bookcontainers and newspaperboxes in a city you can find. 100 should be enough to get a clear picture as approximately 1/3 of your magazines should be of this weapon if no other factors wheigh in.

The "percentage bonus being applied to base chance" is exactly what our theories are based on. How high that percentage is is the question. BFT thinks it is 20% just like you. But the number in the xml is "2" which neither fits mathematical nor percentage notation for 20% and also doesn't fit with how percentage numbers are used anywhere else in XML. If TFP isn't deliberately trying to confuse their own coders then it must be either bumped to 1.02 or 3, increasing to 1.1 or 11 at max. The only wiggle room I see is if it were applied differently than we think

I put more confidence in what I see in the XML than the dev diary, just like comments in code are much less accurate than the code. The dev diary doesn't take mistakes and bugs into account and neither any balancing changes made after someone wrote that sentence. And what we experience in game really doesn't fit a 2% bonus at all. If the chance of finding one magazine in 17 were 1.1, and the rest 1, you would not have that magazine in about one third of all book containers. For me it looks like a bug because someone forgot about the mathematical notation and simply used percentage. Or they found out that a small buff just had no impact (looking at say 4 days of play) and pushed it up until they noticed one.

@faatal Tried out the new "loot container" command you had added. There seems to be some strange bias. Try "loot container bookcase 50000 1 1" and you'll see that the vehiclesSkillMagazine always drops 60% more often than other skill magazines. And bookTechJunkie1Damage is always last with a similar difference to the most often found book bookArtOfMiningDiamondTools. Is the command always reseting the random number seed? Or is is it the RNGs fault?

Then explain something that confuses me: Everywhere else in xml percentages (for perc_add for example) are written in mathematical notations, i.e. as ".2" (meaning 20%). Example: <passive_effect name="EntityDamage" operation="perc_add" level="1" value=".1"> meaning 10% I would assume. But with the magazines I see <passive_effect name="LootProb" operation="perc_add" level="1,5" value="2,10" tags="spearSkill"/> So shouldn't this mean 200% increase per perk level? Even if it used percent notation then it would only be 2% per step, which obviously doesn't fit reality. I just don't see 20% in those numbers at all

Post a logfile. Explanation of how to do this is in this thread: https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/3956-how-to-report-an-issue-please-read-before-creating-new-threads/

Nice, didn't notice. Ok, I would guess this is an unintended consequence of the change. Though I don't know if they will ever fix it, in a normal playthrough I would assume one would seldomly hit the limit because of clothes overload.

My list was incomplete, but not exclusive to the best sources. Our wrench guy usually wrenches most beds in early game for the springs and pipes anyways, so this is just one of the many sources where cloth comes in all the time. When I went through the hotel (I was one of the two collecting cloth in my story above) I just used the axe. My result from the hotel was only upwards of 500 cloth by the way. What do you mean with queue spots? The concurrent jobs in your backpack crafting queue? How is that a limit with cloth?

Tongue in cheek comment? Or do you seriously think that? Despite the claims of TFP overhauling their game each new alpha the only whole system that was immediately replaced again in the next alpha was the perk system of A17 (to my knowledge). And no, even though replacing the crafting recipe system in A21 made some changes necessary in perks, the perk SYSTEM was not changed at all.

Oh right, that is the other thing I don't like with magazines. Originally they said the boost would be minimal, but now in effect it is the all-overriding mechanic to get specific magazines and in comparison nearly none of everthing else. Instead of a safety measure which it should have been.

5500 sounds so impressive. But when that guy who looted just one savage country brought back 2500 cloth alone (at least that is the number I think he mentioned in chat, might have misheard) then that number isn't that impressive anymore. And in normal gameplay you wouldn't do anything different, just keep cloth instead of dropping it. You may be surprised how much you would bring back every day and all it costs is another inventory slot. The important info here would be what type of weapons did you have and how much ammo. Guns kill a demo, pocket mods and chem stations do not 😁. Seriously, I still think MP is still much much easier, even with a few demos on horde night. Perks were an alternative way to get some recipes, generally recipes were always RNG too. And it bothered me that especially in MP the whole progression could be accelerated greatly by perks. In fact that is a detail I don't like with magazines, the reduced randomness of getting unrelated recipes like the food recipes. With weapon recipes that is fine as those recipes are practically just improvements on almost the same weapon, but it is a bit boring that I always get the gas can recipe at exactly the same time in my progression

I play coop multiplayer and before the change we had about 10 full stacks of cloth in our parts box and nothing to do with it. We stopped collecting cloth at some unknown earlier day anyway. After the change we actually got rid of those stack with glue production, but then two of us went out, one raided an already looted hotel, the other an already looted savage country (for clothes, beds and curtains) and we had 10 full stacks again. Took us maybe 10 minutes to loot the stuff we left there because it was useless before. I bet if the looters of any MP group just keep the cloth they find (by wrenching beds or in cupboards or by scraping clothes) then they can easily support the same amount of "homies" without going out of their way. Before the change cloth was one of the items you throw away immediately after day 10. Just think of all the clothes you didn't even care to scrap in your previous game, how much cloth would that make in sum? That is only a guess though and there needs to be some play testing with fresh new games. Because of the stack limit I have the feeling it might just make sense to half any drop, harvest and recipe amounts. I.e. this would make no difference for how long you loot to produce anything, but your cloth would occupy half the space of what it does now without changing the stack limit.

I don't know. As that is likely a gaming laptop and the GPU is separate from CPU it could or should have its own memory, not shared.

The block system was updated, sure, for example brick and cobblestone merged and their weights changed at another time. The latter is a very simple xml change that can't really introduce any bugs, at max it could unearth already existing ones in the code. But I don't remember anyone saying in recorded history 😉 that the SI algorithm itself would be changed or looked at.

It wouldn't be easy to reproduce with a few test blocks since SI is tested daily by hundreds of players and the code for it seems not to have been changed for years. Your only hope is to use the building where you seem to have had the problem and try to recreate by reenacting what you did last time.

Well, that's a surprise. If it was already in A20 I am even more surprised. I remember checking on these values some time ago and it to be more than 2 years ago is the embodiment of "time flies away" Another bug possibility: Maybe the algorithm doesn't always find the best support for a specific block and then drops the ball and with it the blocks.

And explanation of your setup? Explanation of "console side"? First half of logfile where no player ips are listed?

I don't understand. Wood frames and wood don't have the same specs (AFAIK, didn't check), and neither have cobble and concrete the same specs (very very sure of that). If you upgrade from cobble to concrete the weight of that block definitely changes If you meant that the collapse happened between two blocks of the same weight, that isn't a surprise either, one was probably slightly nearer to his nearest support and therefore had just enough support and the other didn't. Also collapses often don't happen at the block which is out of support but on blocks that are part of the "support chain".

If your anti-virus is the windows defender, you can't really deactive it and should not. You have to add exceptions for the save game location instead. Posting logfiles of client and server could help, explanation is in a pinned thread here in "General Support"

What do you mean with console side? Maybe you could explain your setup and post complete logfiles. How to do that is explained in a pinned thread here in "General Support"

You have a 7 year old **notebook* CPU and a similarily old notebook GPU with only 2G RAM. I don't know if this is the real cause of your problems, but it seems likely. This game (and you might have heard this before) is taxing any hardware because it uses a fully destrucitble world and voxels. It may be possible to get this game to run if you dialed down hardware settings and/or generated the smallest possible map. I don't know, but I seem to remember at least one regular forum poster here saying he plays with such a setup, but also that lots of people seem to have problems with such hardware (I often see GTX 960M in the logs here in general support) The logfile you posted is incomplete. If you really copied the complete log then the game must have crashed. There should be some windows log message showing you a reason why it crashed. You could use eventvwr to find that message.

Telrics Flamethrower and ENDZ mods have lines they could not apply. It is likely that they try to change lines in the XML that a mod before them already changed. A typical cause of incompatibilities between mods. The more mods you use the higher the probability of failures and bugs. I also did not see the error messages in the log that you showed in the picture. Wrong logfile? You have to take up any mod problems with the mod authors.

Now you have earned yourself the nickname Trollator 😉