Progression is completely scrambled

[Viktoriusiii]

No I don't want the game to be easier, I dont free xp or whatever. Listen to what I say, not what you expect me to think.

 

TFPs want to slow the game down. And this is completely fine with me. (Level-gating is a different topic)

 

But the weird thing, as many have noted, is the progression.

Some things like tools, trader, stamina, defences and other skills got nerfed/slowed down, while on the other hand weapons are so overabundant and ammo so cheap, that I had a pistol day 1 and a shotgun day 2.

But you also need those weapons, because there are direwolves, football players and ferals from day 1.

Not to mention wandering hordes of bikers and fat zombies.

 

So on the one hand, you are completely gutted until lvl 200, while on the other hand, you are a walking armoury from day 1.

 

And don't just lower weapon spawn.

Less zombies in pois, way lower wandering zombies (or make them walk in a random direction, not directly towards you every time), and less blockdamage by nonferals.

Early game, your only protection should be a poi. If zombies break in in less than a minute, then you could simply fight outside and not be cornered.

 

 

Tl;dr:

If you want the early game to be slower, you can't increase zombiecount to endgame levels and give the player endgame gear.

 

Either you start slow with low threats (good gamedesign for sandbox/rpg/apokalyse genre) so the player gets a feel of dispair and weakness that he slowly works on, or you throw him right in, massive threats, but many strengths to combat it immediately (good for shooter/action) you cannot do both and expect it to work.

Im a fan of slow progress. And even of difficulty.

But as I have said before:

Currently, A17 is more work than fun.

[InSanity]

I definitely agree with less gun spawns early because don't get me wrong, I love getting whole guns now, but where's the excitement and sense of accomplishment when you get an smg and a shotgun by day 2. And as for the zombie spawns and wandering hordes early on, it should definitely start a bit slower and get harder as time goes on, the way it is now seems somewhat like forced difficulty. And another reason why guns shouldn't be so readily available is because they're (for the most part) pretty garbage compared to just good old melee, so why won't make them much rarer but make them worth the while and that way it will also feel natural because around the same time you find a gun will be when you need it as you'll be farther along timewise.

[RestInPieces]

-I agree that weapons and many other "end-game" items are way too abundant even with low loot settings.

-I would prefer that POI zombie count was smaller and random in small POIs with normal loot lists.

-GS-dependent spawns do seem to be all over the place.

-It's true that block damage is a little over the top when many zombies gather.

[Khulkhuum]

I think the problem lies in weapons and tools not having better damage with higher quality tiers. Level 1 dishes out the same as level 6. There is no incentive to gather better quality objects apart from the ability to insert mods (which either you find or wait to level 7 to craft). On the other hand, you can almost from the start increase int by 1 and get tier 2 craftable, but that's beside the point.

 

Wondering now if you could make better quality items like traps so that they give more damage. Would make the traps also useful mid-end game.

[Katitof]

Why does it matter that guns are abundant?

 

Its not like you have 500 ammo all the time to actually use them or even means to repair them in early game.

 

I think the problem lies in weapons and tools not having better damage with higher quality tiers. Level 1 dishes out the same as level 6. There is no incentive to gather better quality objects apart from the ability to insert mods (which either you find or wait to level 7 to craft). On the other hand, you can almost from the start increase int by 1 and get tier 2 craftable, but that's beside the point.

 

Wondering now if you could make better quality items like traps so that they give more damage. Would make the traps also useful mid-end game.

Its called mods.

They make massive difference.

Also better stuff got more durability aka you can use it much longer before having to repair it and again, you always would want better quality for more mod slots, these slots really make a simple pistol from POS weapon into a murder machine.

[Viktoriusiii]

I do though!

Currently no pc in reach, but even if you can't craft ammo from very early on, traders have at least 50 9mm and it costs like nothing.

 

Even if you didn't have ammo...

 

Do you remember how nice it was to finally find that last weapon part? Or that one part that was gray and now you do 20 entity damage more?

Mods are nice, but they do not give the same level of satisfaction as finding a gunpart you needed!

[Vedui]

I feel like I really need a weapon Day 1 to survive, as it's so brutal. Tonnes of zombies. Zombies hone in if they even hear a whisper and they will find you. A couple of weapons help that, but it feels like it's really brutal from the get go.

 

I'd definitely want to tone down zombies at lower gamestage, dont put 20 zeds in a house which should hold 4-5, a town with 20 houses can't have 1000 zombies in it, maybe 100 would be high, but right now you run into way too many.

 

But weapons are needed to try and survive, but then you find so many really fast too. Pistols, rifles, shotguns, smg, ak, stuff in A16 you'd spend a lot of time searching for, I find in the first 1-2 days.

 

And I still die a few times, as you run into a feral or two, or go through a POI where the design is not "oh there happened to be some loose floorboards" but rather "Let's see how we can kill a player trying to loot this house" thing. And that's really tough, when there's so many zombies that wake up just because you make a little bit of noise

 

Maybe I can't cook tea, but I got an armoury I can carry around So balancing is needed to bring back a sense of progression.

 

/V -

[HerrKingsley]

I would like to see weapons doing more damage. Headshot point blank should kill most zombies.

But to balance that, making ammo rare. And add another component to gunpowder maybe sulfur (which is also rare).

 

In an Apocalypse i bet you would find a lot of weapons but ammo will probably be scares. That way you make every bullet count instead of spray and pray

[Randomdude]

But to balance that, making ammo rare. And add another component to gunpowder maybe sulfur (which is also rare).

 

Although I kind of see where you're going with this, it's gonna be REEEAAAALLLLYYYY frustrating having a chest full of level 6 weapons of all kinds and 6 bullets.

 

I'm exaggerating of course, but there must be a better solution than rationing bullets like this was Resident Evil.

[HerrKingsley]

I don't see an abundance of weapons as more of an problem than gun parts in a16. It's more like "oh free iron... thank you!"

[Khulkhuum]

Why does it matter that guns are abundant?

 

Its not like you have 500 ammo all the time to actually use them or even means to repair them in early game.

 

 

Its called mods.

They make massive difference.

Also better stuff got more durability aka you can use it much longer before having to repair it and again, you always would want better quality for more mod slots, these slots really make a simple pistol from POS weapon into a murder machine.

 

Sure, i can see the difference, but unless i have 6 different mods to apply to my hunting knife, i don't see a point to get anything above tier 3 with like 2 mods accessible to that weapon now (i can recall two blade mods and perhaps there is something more to add). I'm all in for small increases, for example even 5 damage per tier (or like 10% up) would be noticeable (and you could omit the difference between tier 1 and 2 as you simply get the single mod slot).

 

Also, not every mod increases damage, but adds some specific "perk" to the weapon, like increased bleeding, faster reload, a scope, faster attack (that surely helps in the DPS, but the question is how much?). If by day 50 i will have all the mods for a specific weapon installed, the game will move to a grind, where all zombies will get stronger, but i will not be able to be (concerning this weapon, because there i can always use a more powerful one or just AK47-ish everything with enough ammo).

[Guest]

Every mod installed increases base damage. Even dyes. So damage does go higher with quality, only not directly.

[vonstorm]

I can build a motorcycle - yaay! - oh wait, have to grind 10 more levels to make the steel to build the motorcycle - boo!

[Krougal]

Since I've gone through a lot of restarts with A17 already, between trying different things, hopping servers, and the hotfixes...it's very random, also I don't know if they tweaked it down any or my luck has changed for the worse, but I'm not finding things I was taking for granted as much. Like mining helmets, iron tools and lots of guns. Granted there are gun safes galore, but I am not going to sit there beating on them all day with a stone axe.

 

And even still when I was finding an ak or smg right off the rip, not like I was using it for anything but emergencies, ammo doesn't feel overly abundant on normal loot settings to me.

 

*blah, blah* If by day 50 *blah, blah*

 

That's 50 hours of playing. Even for me that's not a tremendous amount of time but for a casual that could be a month or 2...

How many hours should a person need to invest into a single game to see the bulk of the content?

[PoppaTot]

I can build a motorcycle - yaay! - oh wait, have to grind 10 more levels to make the steel to build the motorcycle - boo!

 

I have played about 5-6 play throughs, have only used the trader for things like steel, duct tape, ammo, never had an issue building a motorcycle right at unlock.

[vonstorm]

I have played about 5-6 play throughs, have only used the trader for things like steel, duct tape, ammo, never had an issue building a motorcycle right at unlock.

 

Not the point - getting a perk you can build using mats you cant is a little off as far as skill tree design goes.

[Khulkhuum]

As much as i agree that 50 hours to know most of the game is a lot, many games lock content behind natural progression - story wise or level wise. This means that when you achieve a certain level of progression (generally meant) you get to know a new mechanic of the game. Also, many games have far less than 50 hours of play time required to finish a game.

 

My previous point stands exactly where it was. Even if every mod adds a bit of damage bonus (no matter what mod, but it should be described so people know they do) there are so little mods that i can add to some specific weapons that there is no point getting high tier tools/weapons.

 

In the future when they add more(or if modders with make a mod with tons of weapon/tool mods), sure. But at the moment it's pointless. Not to mention it's hard to find specific mods for specific weapon/tool.

[Ghostlight]

I'd like to see more zombies on the whole but with far fewer HP.

[IgnyteZero]

No I don't want the game to be easier, I dont free xp or whatever. Listen to what I say, not what you expect me to think.

 

TFPs want to slow the game down. And this is completely fine with me. (Level-gating is a different topic)

 

But the weird thing, as many have noted, is the progression.

Some things like tools, trader, stamina, defences and other skills got nerfed/slowed down, while on the other hand weapons are so overabundant and ammo so cheap, that I had a pistol day 1 and a shotgun day 2.

But you also need those weapons, because there are direwolves, football players and ferals from day 1.

Not to mention wandering hordes of bikers and fat zombies.

 

So on the one hand, you are completely gutted until lvl 200, while on the other hand, you are a walking armoury from day 1.

 

And don't just lower weapon spawn.

Less zombies in pois, way lower wandering zombies (or make them walk in a random direction, not directly towards you every time), and less blockdamage by nonferals.

Early game, your only protection should be a poi. If zombies break in in less than a minute, then you could simply fight outside and not be cornered.

 

 

Tl;dr:

If you want the early game to be slower, you can't increase zombiecount to endgame levels and give the player endgame gear.

 

Either you start slow with low threats (good gamedesign for sandbox/rpg/apokalyse genre) so the player gets a feel of dispair and weakness that he slowly works on, or you throw him right in, massive threats, but many strengths to combat it immediately (good for shooter/action) you cannot do both and expect it to work.

Im a fan of slow progress. And even of difficulty.

But as I have said before:

Currently, A17 is more work than fun.

 

Completely agree

[Kalarro]

No I don't want the game to be easier, I dont free xp or whatever. Listen to what I say, not what you expect me to think.

 

TFPs want to slow the game down. And this is completely fine with me. (Level-gating is a different topic)

 

But the weird thing, as many have noted, is the progression.

Some things like tools, trader, stamina, defences and other skills got nerfed/slowed down, while on the other hand weapons are so overabundant and ammo so cheap, that I had a pistol day 1 and a shotgun day 2.

But you also need those weapons, because there are direwolves, football players and ferals from day 1.

Not to mention wandering hordes of bikers and fat zombies.

 

So on the one hand, you are completely gutted until lvl 200, while on the other hand, you are a walking armoury from day 1.

 

And don't just lower weapon spawn.

Less zombies in pois, way lower wandering zombies (or make them walk in a random direction, not directly towards you every time), and less blockdamage by nonferals.

Early game, your only protection should be a poi. If zombies break in in less than a minute, then you could simply fight outside and not be cornered.

 

 

Tl;dr:

If you want the early game to be slower, you can't increase zombiecount to endgame levels and give the player endgame gear.

 

Either you start slow with low threats (good gamedesign for sandbox/rpg/apokalyse genre) so the player gets a feel of dispair and weakness that he slowly works on, or you throw him right in, massive threats, but many strengths to combat it immediately (good for shooter/action) you cannot do both and expect it to work.

Im a fan of slow progress. And even of difficulty.

But as I have said before:

Currently, A17 is more work than fun.

 

 

Agree. IMO they are trying to steer the game too much into a combat game.

[RestInPieces]

Agree. IMO they are trying to steer the game too much into a combat game.

 

I am quite sure they aren't. But then again it seems they hadn't thought everything through and now they are balancing xp sources and traders to make up for it. Hope they will also revisit loot lists.

[Viktoriusiii]

I also don't think they want to focus on fighting and is just a result of poor planing and bad loot tables as RIP said. (*edit* also the inevitable result of guns beeing found as a whole far more often... but I will make a post about that tomorrow.)

 

What they want is a slow buildup rpg sandbox horror... and I like the general idea. But the execution of that plan is atrocious.

[fazi]

Not the point - getting a perk you can build using mats you cant is a little off as far as skill tree design goes.

 

You can get steel by buying!

I'd like to see more zombies on the whole but with far fewer HP.

On adventurier difficulty zombies are 2 shots with stone arrows, why lower hp?

 

I also don't think they want to focus on fighting and is just a result of poor planing and bad loot tables as RIP said. (*edit* also the inevitable result of guns beeing found as a whole far more often... but I will make a post about that tomorrow.)

 

What they want is a slow buildup rpg sandbox horror... and I like the general idea. But the execution of that plan is atrocious.

 

We need to have something to do for way longer...

[Krougal]

Another thing to think about is people are assuming they'll be able to get their corpse back/play with drop only toolbelt or backpack.

What if you can't get to your corpse? What about destroy on death setting? Keeping spare weapons and armor suddenly becomes much more important.

I'm still not finding enough ammo and combined with the guns ♥♥♥♥ty damage I still don't feel I can use any gun as my primary weapon, certainly not before chemistry unlock.

[Randomdude]

No I don't want the game to be easier, I dont free xp or whatever. Listen to what I say, not what you expect me to think.

 

TFPs want to slow the game down. And this is completely fine with me. (Level-gating is a different topic)

 

But the weird thing, as many have noted, is the progression.

Some things like tools, trader, stamina, defences and other skills got nerfed/slowed down, while on the other hand weapons are so overabundant and ammo so cheap, that I had a pistol day 1 and a shotgun day 2.

But you also need those weapons, because there are direwolves, football players and ferals from day 1.

Not to mention wandering hordes of bikers and fat zombies.

 

So on the one hand, you are completely gutted until lvl 200, while on the other hand, you are a walking armoury from day 1.

 

And don't just lower weapon spawn.

Less zombies in pois, way lower wandering zombies (or make them walk in a random direction, not directly towards you every time), and less blockdamage by nonferals.

Early game, your only protection should be a poi. If zombies break in in less than a minute, then you could simply fight outside and not be cornered.

 

 

Tl;dr:

If you want the early game to be slower, you can't increase zombiecount to endgame levels and give the player endgame gear.

 

Either you start slow with low threats (good gamedesign for sandbox/rpg/apokalyse genre) so the player gets a feel of dispair and weakness that he slowly works on, or you throw him right in, massive threats, but many strengths to combat it immediately (good for shooter/action) you cannot do both and expect it to work.

Im a fan of slow progress. And even of difficulty.

But as I have said before:

Currently, A17 is more work than fun.

 

Agreed.