A17 has some of the worst balance i've seen yet. Also Mushrooms.

[Scyris]

Alright here is why.

 

Example 1: compound bow with stone arrows vs ak47, Compound bow with stone arrows: 32 damage AK47 with 7.62 mm bullets that are massivly more expensive/harder to craft plus locked behind multiple perks? 32 damage. Umm what? If it was steel 7.62 ammo it would be hitting for even less than 32. Also before you say it this is with 0 ranged perks, so there isin't that influencing the damage. They might be trying to keep dps the same, but look, there is no way in hell i'd use the ak47 with its insane ammo cost and low damage.

 

How can they think this is balanced at all when they don't seem to be considering the cost and time needed to make the ammo? The guns should do noticble higher damage than any bow/xbow weapon because of the ammo costs they have.

 

Another example: Wooden bow vs pistol.. both have 25 dmg, thats with the wooden bow having stone arrows, it'd be higher if I had iron or steel. The pistol would actually do LESS damage if your using steel ammo. Steel ammo seems to do ~5% less damage and costs double durability per shot. Fix? Pistol should be doing at least what the wooden bow does with steel arrows, maybe even a bit higher, to counter the cost of making the ammo.

 

Steel ammo is ammo where the Case is made with iron insted of brass.

 

Lets move away from weapons as most of the weapons in the game really need adjusted damage values badly, especally the guns.

 

Lets talk cooking now.

 

Why is it that alot of the stuff that requires 2 perk levels to make, restores LESS max stamina and sometimes less health, than bacon and egg's which is a level 1 perk food. This same food also costs twice as much meat (or more) to make. I mean veggie stew I can understand the stats it has, as its all veggies so you can bascally make as much as you want, but the perk 2 and up meat stuff should be progressivly better than anything in perk 1.

 

Speaking of veggie stew, they fix the mushrooms in a17? so they have about same growth time as normal crops and you don't have to sit and watch them grow like in a16? in a16 not only do they take 3+ times as long to grow compared to every other crop, you also have to be in the same chunk with them or else they stop growing at all meaning you'll never get a harvest.

[HungryZombie]

I can't really disagree with anything your saying here except your last part is confusing.

 

Are you saying that in A16 mushrooms were bad and now it's fixed? Not sure if you were saying it's bugged in A17 or were just grousing about how bad it was in A16.

[konrax]

Balancing is something I expected would be off a lot and would need some fine tuning and adjustments.

 

That being said you point out some of the rough issues that need to be focused on.

[Scyris]

I can't really disagree with anything your saying here except your last part is confusing.

 

Are you saying that in A16 mushrooms were bad and now it's fixed? Not sure if you were saying it's bugged in A17 or were just grousing about how bad it was in A16.

 

I worded it bad sorry, I am asking if they been fixed in a17, so we can just plant it like any other crop and go do other things and have it grow, preferably at about the same speed as every other crop.

 

As for the balance thing, I could see it being a issue in pvp if damage is so high, but thats why you have pvp damage reduction by maybe 50%, so a 80 dmg ak47 will do 40 in pvp base, then mitigation via the targets armor on top. This way you don't have to screw up pve to have balance for pvp. Right now it seems they are trying to balance it for both, but in doing so makes the guns pretty useless in pve.

[Talonspad]

You mentioned dps when comparing the AK and a bow...

 

How quickly can you fire arrows, cuz I'm pretty sure the damage per second(dps) is way higher for the AK?

[Scyris]

You mentioned dps when comparing the AK and a bow...

 

How quickly can you fire arrows, cuz I'm pretty sure the damage per second(dps) is way higher for the AK?

 

Its not so much about the dps, its more about the fact the damage is so low compared to the cost of ammo for the AK47.

[themirror]

Its not so much about the dps, its more about the fact the damage is so low compared to the cost of ammo for the AK47.

 

so, don't use AK, or smg...

[Skavies]

I think if you give it time, and think of guns a later game weapons-especially the automatic ones, it will sort its self out. I'm sure a few people have gotten to the point where they can craft 100 rockets, or 1k bullets with junk laying around in over flow/presort dump chests, but most of us are probably less than 3 weeks into the game and simply don't have even 1 chest filled with ammo. The Fun Pimps seem to have wanted us to slow down on getting Augers and Vehicles and the easy life stuff until we spend some time suffering with Wooden Clubs and Fiber Clothes.

[Kosmic Kerman]

Its not so much about the dps, its more about the fact the damage is so low compared to the cost of ammo for the AK47.

 

This comment takes a lot away from your first post. DPS has to be a primary concern when balancing weapons. In most games bows and crossbows are roughly the equivalent of sniper rifles. High damage put you have to make your shots.

[Talonspad]

960(32x30) dmg in the time it takes to pump out 32-64(32x1-2) dmg seems to justify the cost, or am I crazy?

[Kattla]

"Steel ammo wears down the barrel quicker"

mhm..

This explains it. See, in normal guns, you shoot the bullet through the barrel, and the casing remains.

In 7d2d, we shoot the casing through the barrel and the bullet remains. So it is only logical that

guns don't do so very much damage.

 

edit:

 

[enragedcamel]

Guns also generate much more heat, don't they? Compound bow is almost silent.

[vonstorm]

I think the problem is that many gamers today have to have a slide rule and charts with numbers and figures. In the above mentioned case of a bow vs AK47 its the ability to rapidly unleash missiles. The cost of making the ammo is relevant in that the AK is a luxury weapon, and should be used as such, ie when needed.

 

The immersion factor is that if I had an AK and some rounds, I would be mindful of where the replacement rounds were coming from, and use it sparingly. My everyday usage would be the bow. That being said, another factor with a bow is the stealth aspect, which Im testing atm to see if there is enough of a difference. The numbers are a tool to make the game work on a computer, the real test is immersion.

[Damocles]

If you balance the game in a way that every new item is strictly better than the previous one, the game will end up everyone using the same item after progressing.

Everyone would wear mining helmets then...

 

I can see the idea behind weapons having only a slight advantage over others.

 

Its still a valid choice to use the lower powered weapon, if its way cheaper to maintain and craft.

[ArcticPrism]

Like others have said, the bow is a single shot while you can fire rapidly with an AK, Pistol or SMG. Most guns are not about efficiency, they are about raw damage output. A bow probably won't save you against a group of ferals that close the distance but a gun can. I carry one around for emergency situations just like that.

 

I think you should be comparing the bow to the Crossbow, Hunting Rifle and Marksman rifle instead. They provide a similar function, especially the crossbow which is single shot efficiency or stealth in the case of the Crossbow.

[Chronosphere]

well what you dont consider or tought about is this, u kill a zombie and suddenly u have a hunting rifle a compund bow and ammo 15 ish.. from NOTHING! also things changed and your not liking to adapt, this is your problem. food however is making it more survivalist its more depth to it, everyday i ask myself ok what to priortize now.. wood stone or food? go loot? or vendoring? base defense? i only got 2 more days to 14 days so kinda stressed out.. and dying in between isnt fun either.. zombies stop at 4 but some runs into 6 and after that too ferals a building with 8 ferals is not fun but makes it more immersion.

[Kam R.]

@Siv: Shrooms seemed to take the same time as all the other crops now and didn't bug out for me.

[pakabe]

Whatever devs do, there are always some guys who do not see, that they do not develop just for them. They don't just have to balance the pve play style, because if they do so, the pvp gets unbalanced.

 

We all know what happens, if there are late game weapons way overpowered, don't we? There are some guys who take out new players or those who play alone, just because they have the "best" weapons. If you have a compound bow for example, not that much dps an ak does, but if you have the skill to hit any of your shots, you have a chance, even vs a small group.

 

If I get in a dangerous pve situation, I would choose an ak before anything else, in pvp it depends on the situation. Group vs group, ak is can be good choice, als well.

[SylenThunder]

Whatever devs do, there are always some guys who do not see, that they do not develop just for them. They don't just have to balance the pve play style, because if they do so, the pvp gets unbalanced.

 

We all know what happens, if there are late game weapons way overpowered, don't we? There are some guys who take out new players or those who play alone, just because they have the "best" weapons. If you have a compound bow for example, not that much dps an ak does, but if you have the skill to hit any of your shots, you have a chance, even vs a small group.

 

If I get in a dangerous pve situation, I would choose an ak before anything else, in pvp it depends on the situation. Group vs group, ak is can be good choice, als well.

There is no need to revive a dead thread when we already have a current one.

[h=3]Feedback for The Fun Pimps on Alpha 17[/h]