This is a joke, right?

[Patizor]

Where do I begin? No loot from zombies, no ability to use bandages on your toolbar, that stupid black stamina bar, zombies leap to their feet as soon as they are knocked down...

 

And I can't believe all skills are gone and replaced with perk points. No more improving an ability by using it. Instead you get cute little points to gain a level, then you click on a + button to improve. So cheesy.

 

Carrying 20 small things--berry, egg, feather--encumbers you but carrying one jeep doesn't? Whose idea was that?

 

The update doesn't even look good. I thought that would be its one redeeming feature, but all the ghouls look like they are wearing masks and everything that isn't close enough to touch is a blur.

 

After playing for half an hour, I'm going back to A16. Heck with this.

[OzHawkeye]

Sheshh, where to start.

 

1. You're wrong. It's not NO loot from zombies. They occasionally still do drop loot, and when they do it'll be more likely to be good loot. It also stops them from being farmed loot pinatas.

 

2. You're wrong. You CAN use bandages on your toolbar. Don't know why you can't.

 

3. The black stamina bar is reflecting accumulated damage, it can be recovered by eating/drinking.

 

4. You're wrong. Zombies don't always leap to their feet after being knocked down. If not killed they will slowly get up, but you've got the opportunity to "hit 'em while they're down".

 

5. Perk points were advertised WELL in advance. Unless you've been willfully ignoring basically every post from the Pimps this should not have been a surpise.

 

6. Encumbrance can be overcome through spending on Strength related perks. It's slot based for simplicity, and I for one, would HATE to see a weight based system put in. Amongst other things this IS a building game and weight based encumbrance would KILL that dead.

 

7. Enjoy A16. Forever, if that's what you want.

[Shiana]

Yeah, even some things advertised were ... .wrongly explained in madmoles videos for example:

 

its sad that some things for a17 were misunderstandings/false advertisement: You can tell if a cupboard is empty or full by looking at it. Nope. You can only tell whether the cupboard was generated with or without loot. If it has already been looted by someone else it looks like there is loot in it, although its empty...

[jdifran]

Left-click bandages on your toolbar instead of right-click. Took me a while to figure that out, too.

 

Black stamina bar just means you need to eat and drink more. Black health bar means you need to use those bandages.

 

Perk points takes some getting used to, but in A16 you probably leveled up five times in a row without buying anything new just to get Miner 69er 5. Now you can buy something every level up.

 

Now instead of a item hard limit, inventory takes some thought. Interesting choices. Carry more (than A16) with a gradually increasing penalty to speed. They can't do realistic weight limits or you couldn't even carry one concrete block. (But complete vehicles should not be able to be placed into inventory or storage containers. That IS ridiculous.)

 

Graphics will get further optimization. This is experimental, not stable (and alpha, not gold).

 

Maybe try it again in January.

[Myragor]

Sheshh, where to start.

 

6. Encumbrance can be overcome through spending on Strength related perks. It's slot based for simplicity, and I for one, would HATE to see a weight based system put in. Amongst other things this IS a building game and weight based encumbrance would KILL that dead.

 

 

There is no good encumbrance, screw encumbrance, too many games are already infected with inventory management mini games and I don't like that 7 Days has decided this is a good idea.

[HerrKingsley]

No problem with no loot zombies. But some occasionally clothes would be nice.

 

Lol bandages in toolbelt. That almost killed me. Its left click nowadays.

 

Well 7dtd will never start using weight as a measurement in inventory. Building wouldn't be feasible..

 

I'm not a fan off just buying perks. And advertising it doesn't make me like it better.

I believe in learning by doing.

 

A17 looks many times better then a16. I love the visual.

[Psychodabble]

Sheshh, where to start.

 

1. You're wrong. It's not NO loot from zombies. They occasionally still do drop loot, and when they do it'll be more likely to be good loot. It also stops them from being farmed loot pinatas.

 

2. You're wrong. You CAN use bandages on your toolbar. Don't know why you can't.

 

3. The black stamina bar is reflecting accumulated damage, it can be recovered by eating/drinking.

 

4. You're wrong. Zombies don't always leap to their feet after being knocked down. If not killed they will slowly get up, but you've got the opportunity to "hit 'em while they're down".

 

5. Perk points were advertised WELL in advance. Unless you've been willfully ignoring basically every post from the Pimps this should not have been a surpise.

 

6. Encumbrance can be overcome through spending on Strength related perks. It's slot based for simplicity, and I for one, would HATE to see a weight based system put in. Amongst other things this IS a building game and weight based encumbrance would KILL that dead.

 

7. Enjoy A16. Forever, if that's what you want.

 

I know this guy is overly harsh and a bit whiny with his criticism, but I don't think this is the right way to go for a community moderator. He may be slightly exaggerating some things, but he's not totally wrong...there's some merit to what he's saying.

 

1. There's as good as no loot form zombies. I killed nearly every one I saw from day 1 onward and saw no loot bags through day 5. It's quite jarring coming from A16 where every single zed had loot.

 

2. There seems to be some delay with bandages til they are...equipped? If you select them on your toolbar and try to use immediately, as one does in a heated combat situation, it won't work. You only have to wait a second or two until they work, but a second or two of continuous clicking while you are running/fighting for your life feels like an eternity. My first death was because I switched to bandages, clicked to use, and flipped quickly back to my club, not realizing the bandage hadn't applied.

 

4. He's not wrong. Knockdown recovery time compared to A16 is REALLY fast. It used to be that if you were quick you could get in 3-5 hits on a downed zed before it got up. Now, you get ONE if you're quick. If you're not, you get none.

 

6. The encumbrance system definitely needs work or at least a lot of further discussion. In its current form, I spend more time managing my inventory than doing literally anything else in the game. Yes, I spent perks to improve it, but level gates mean that even if I want to dedicate myself totally to an unencumbered lifestyle, I can't. The system may add some level of realism/challenge, but I don#t know that anyone can say it's fun. That's an issue that should be discussed, not dismissed. I doubt the OP was arguing in favor of weight-based encumbrance, and if he was I disagree with that as well, but something should be changed here.

[OzHawkeye]

There is no good encumbrance, screw encumbrance, too many games are already infected with inventory management mini games and I don't like that 7 Days has decided this is a good idea.

 

I would hardly call myself a fan of inventory management either, in prior Alpha's I modded the inventory to be larger (MUCH larger), but neither would I call A17's inventory way over the top, particularly once you spend the Strength perks to expand the inventory.

 

Personally, I'd like more inventory space too, but what's there isn't a major issue for me anyway.

[OzHawkeye]

I know this guy is overly harsh and a bit whiny with his criticism, but I don't think this is the right way to go for a community moderator. He may be slightly exaggerating some things, but he's not totally wrong...there's some merit to what he's saying.

 

1. There's as good as no loot form zombies. I killed nearly every one I saw from day 1 onward and saw no loot bags through day 5. It's quite jarring coming from A16 where every single zed had loot.

 

2. There seems to be some delay with bandages til they are...equipped? If you select them on your toolbar and try to use immediately, as one does in a heated combat situation, it won't work. You only have to wait a second or two until they work, but a second or two of continuous clicking while you are running/fighting for your life feels like an eternity. My first death was because I switched to bandages, clicked to use, and flipped quickly back to my club, not realizing the bandage hadn't applied.

 

4. He's not wrong. Knockdown recovery time compared to A16 is REALLY fast. It used to be that if you were quick you could get in 3-5 hits on a downed zed before it got up. Now, you get ONE if you're quick. If you're not, you get none.

 

6. The encumbrance system definitely needs work or at least a lot of further discussion. In its current form, I spend more time managing my inventory than doing literally anything else in the game. Yes, I spent perks to improve it, but level gates mean that even if I want to dedicate myself totally to an unencumbered lifestyle, I can't. The system may add some level of realism/challenge, but I don#t know that anyone can say it's fun. That's an issue that should be discussed, not dismissed. I doubt the OP was arguing in favor of weight-based encumbrance, and if he was I disagree with that as well, but something should be changed here.

 

I wasn't intending to sound overly harsh, though I do admit, the OP's attitude did lower my sympathy level somewhat. In response to your points:

 

1. In prior Alphas, the loot you got from zombies was mostly trash anyway. Edit that out, and what you've got now is now super massively different from what we had before - is it less? Sure, absolutely, no argument there, but I do actually like that - in a game where the primary threat is zombies (absent bandits), they ought not be a loot pinata players are actively seeking out to farm I think.

 

2. I have bandages on my #9 slot action bar. I haven't noticed any major delay between selecting them and using them. I wouldn't say it's instantaneous but the delay is small, and the OP was claiming (falsely) that it couldn't be done at all.

 

4. Are you using your special attack? I'm not having any issues getting at least one in while they're getting up, assuming of course I'm not fighting a whole horde of them that is.

 

6. It's a pain at first, yes, not being a fan of inventory management, but the end result is a manageable amount of inventory. If some bright spark comes out with a mod to expand it further, I'd probably use it, but neither is the current set up detracting much from my enjoyment of the game. As for perks being level gated, yeah, can't say I disagree with that, I wish that wasn't so like some others, but that was the Pimps decision.

[tyaldan]

while true i love not wasting my time looking for loot in a fresh building. I love the poi refresh for questing, its amazing. It picks a random building and says, have fun! And when you get there it respawns the poi. I feel that for the longevity of the game the 2 together is the best. This means there will always be at least one building to search, because when you are done you can go to nearest trader and get another.

 

@ the guy saying the loot containers dont actually work

[HungryZombie]

Not being able to use bandages has happened to me as well. Might be a glitch. Otherwise the only other thing I could think of was maybe I was stunned and that might block you from using bandages but I did just die from not being able to stop my bleeding after being hit.

[KingSlayerGM]

The update doesn't even look good. I thought that would be its one redeeming feature, but all the ghouls look like they are wearing masks and everything that isn't close enough to touch is a blur.

 

[Myragor]

I would hardly call myself a fan of inventory management either, in prior Alpha's I modded the inventory to be larger (MUCH larger), but neither would I call A17's inventory way over the top, particularly once you spend the Strength perks to expand the inventory.

 

Personally, I'd like more inventory space too, but what's there isn't a major issue for me anyway.

 

I don't think its over the top, I just don't want to deal with encumbrance in this game at all, personal preference.

[Psychodabble]

4. Are you using your special attack? I'm not having any issues getting at least one in while they're getting up, assuming of course I'm not fighting a whole horde of them that is.

 

I mix it up depending on stamina level. I've not seen a difference in how long zeds stay down no matter which attack is used, though I'm a knife guy primarily, so once I got a hunting knife, the club was permanently scrapped. I still have to say, one downed attack from 3-5 is a very dramatic difference IMO. It really does feel like knockdowns are far less relevant to combat than they used to be. If you are saying you can get in 2 or more, I'd like to see a video of that so I can steal your technique.

[giltirn]

Disable the depth of field option to get rid of the blurriness.

[OzHawkeye]

I mix it up depending on stamina level. I've not seen a difference in how long zeds stay down no matter which attack is used, though I'm a knife guy primarily, so once I got a hunting knife, the club was permanently scrapped. I still have to say, one downed attack from 3-5 is a very dramatic difference IMO. It really does feel like knockdowns are far less relevant to combat than they used to be. If you are saying you can get in 2 or more, I'd like to see a video of that so I can steal your technique.

 

Well, keep in mind there's perks to increase the chance of a knockdown too.

 

At the start, yes, I rarely managed to knock one over, but whenever I did, I made sure, other Zombies permitting, to get an extra hit on 'em while they were down.

[SunGod]

Where do I begin?.

 

Yeah, it's definitely unbalanced. A17 Experimental has taken the game back to being a massive grind-fest. It looks a lot better, but it's simply not any fun to play and try to get off the ground as a solo player. I'm getting mauled with horde after horde, the death penalty is absurdly cruel (1 hour of actual play time instead of game time? seriously?), getting decent crafting skills is really, really, REALLY hard (combined with the death penalty making it impossible for me to craft even poor level tools or combat enemies, which screws me even more... it's just not fun. I can't even tell what level I have to be at to increase a perk/skill/whateveritscalled - it just says I'm not at the right level... not particularly helpful UI feedback.

 

I get that it's experimental. I get it probably needs tuning. I get that there are bugs. But this feels way unbalanced.

 

And please, folks, spare me the fanboy lectures, I've been around since A5, I don't wanna hear it. Take it as constructive feedback from somebody with about 3,700 hours of play time over almost 5 years, running a PVE server for over 4 of those. I appreciate a lot of work went into A17, but I suggest focusing much of the remaining efforts be put on gameplay balancing. Grinding ain't fun.

[OzHawkeye]

Yeah, it's definitely unbalanced. A17 Experimental has taken the game back to being a massive grind-fest. It looks a lot better, but it's simply not any fun to play and try to get off the ground as a solo player. I'm getting mauled with horde after horde, the death penalty is absurdly cruel (1 hour of actual play time instead of game time? seriously?), getting decent crafting skills is really, really, REALLY hard (combined with the death penalty making it impossible for me to craft even poor level tools or combat enemies, which screws me even more... it's just not fun. I can't even tell what level I have to be at to increase a perk/skill/whateveritscalled - it just says I'm not at the right level... not particularly helpful UI feedback.

 

I get that it's experimental. I get it probably needs tuning. I get that there are bugs. But this feels way unbalanced.

 

And please, folks, spare me the fanboy lectures, I've been around since A5, I don't wanna hear it. Take it as constructive feedback from somebody with about 3,700 hours of play time over almost 5 years, running a PVE server for over 4 of those. I appreciate a lot of work went into A17, but I suggest focusing much of the remaining efforts be put on gameplay balancing. Grinding ain't fun.

 

So what difficulty level are you on?

 

My first A17 throw away game was, I kid you not, at Scavenger, cause I knew there'd be a whole slew of new stuff I'd want to try out for a bit.

[EzunaAranna]

 

The update doesn't even look good. I thought that would be its one redeeming feature, but all the ghouls look like they are wearing masks and everything that isn't close enough to touch is a blur.

 

After playing for half an hour, I'm going back to A16. Heck with this.

 

Just wait until you go into the desert, and see the way the plants are popped onto the martian red landscape. To say that the textures are PS2 level is an understatement. O yea and the cracked window panes now....wonderful texture work indeed.

 

O yes couldn't help but notice the way the zeds "get back up again now"...like someone has a hand up their a$$ and is pushing them up with a red hot poker. Realism personified......

 

It's an absolute shocker in so many ways. Worst thing is the performance. Of course it's my potato rig and / or my lack of knowledge in how to set it up.

 

I'm off now to do some world bosses with 60 other players in GW2 @ 60 fps, with everything maxed....cya 0/

[Psychodabble]

Well, keep in mind there's perks to increase the chance of a knockdown too.

 

At the start, yes, I rarely managed to knock one over, but whenever I did, I made sure, other Zombies permitting, to get an extra hit on 'em while they were down.

 

I'm not sure we're quite getting each other. My issue is not with how often I knock zeds down, it's about how long they stay down. Knockdown frequency is fine with me...with added perks it might even be a bit excessive. The issue is that when you knock them down, they don't stay down...they jump up WAY faster than they did in A16.

[dtzone]

A17 looks many times better then a16. I love the visual.

 

I disagree, it looks horrible now, My alpha 15/16 looked great on my high end system, now it's bleh. I am hoping it's an experimental thing and it gets better.

[OzHawkeye]

I'm not sure we're quite getting each other. My issue is not with how often I knock zeds down, it's about how long they stay down. Knockdown frequency is fine with me...with added perks it might even be a bit excessive. The issue is that when you knock them down, they don't stay down...they jump up WAY faster than they did in A16.

 

Well, to be sure, I wouldn't describe how LONG they stay down for as excessively long. Perhaps it's something they'll tweak further.

[Bolliz]

Where do I begin? No loot from zombies, no ability to use bandages on your toolbar, that stupid black stamina bar, zombies leap to their feet as soon as they are knocked down...

 

And I can't believe all skills are gone and replaced with perk points. No more improving an ability by using it. Instead you get cute little points to gain a level, then you click on a + button to improve. So cheesy.

 

Carrying 20 small things--berry, egg, feather--encumbers you but carrying one jeep doesn't? Whose idea was that?

 

The update doesn't even look good. I thought that would be its one redeeming feature, but all the ghouls look like they are wearing masks and everything that isn't close enough to touch is a blur.

 

After playing for half an hour, I'm going back to A16. Heck with this.

 

Its an experimental build, the fluff is wrong with u man? U obviously dont understand what to expect from a experimental build.

[Ld-airgrafix]

He is right about zombies getting up immediately after getting knocked down, not a fan of this at all, especially in multiplayer. Due to lag, you would be silly to melee early on. That knock was always used to finish them off with a club, now this is no longer the case

[Bluebella]

Yeah, it's definitely unbalanced. A17 Experimental has taken the game back to being a massive grind-fest. It looks a lot better, but it's simply not any fun to play and try to get off the ground as a solo player. I'm getting mauled with horde after horde, the death penalty is absurdly cruel (1 hour of actual play time instead of game time? seriously?), getting decent crafting skills is really, really, REALLY hard (combined with the death penalty making it impossible for me to craft even poor level tools or combat enemies, which screws me even more... it's just not fun. I can't even tell what level I have to be at to increase a perk/skill/whateveritscalled - it just says I'm not at the right level... not particularly helpful UI feedback.

 

I get that it's experimental. I get it probably needs tuning. I get that there are bugs. But this feels way unbalanced.

 

And please, folks, spare me the fanboy lectures, I've been around since A5, I don't wanna hear it. Take it as constructive feedback from somebody with about 3,700 hours of play time over almost 5 years, running a PVE server for over 4 of those. I appreciate a lot of work went into A17, but I suggest focusing much of the remaining efforts be put on gameplay balancing. Grinding ain't fun.

 

I'm not grinding and I'm having lot's of fun. I've made a small starter base in a house and am now having to think up clever ways to defend it as my dependable spike traps have been removed. I have a massive hole in the basement that needs fixing and multiple doors which can be bashed down in seconds. I'm living off boiled eggs and canned water, I have 25 health and I've had to learn to master the art of controlling a pack of zombies with a club. All of my favourite recipes, heavy duty reinforcements and iron bars are out of reach for now - so I'm having to be really creative with my tactics. Sure there's bound to be some balancing issues but so far A17 is my favourite version of this game and I'm not someone who tolerates grinding.

 

I'm not sure we're quite getting each other. My issue is not with how often I knock zeds down, it's about how long they stay down. Knockdown frequency is fine with me...with added perks it might even be a bit excessive. The issue is that when you knock them down, they don't stay down...they jump up WAY faster than they did in A16.

 

They don't stay down as long but they don't seem able to reach as well as in A16, therefore I'm able to hit them 3 times before I have to move out of reach. Give it a bit of time and see if you can master the new rhythm as I think you'll find you can adapt quite easily.