This is a joke, right?

[Jiles111]

For a more than a years worth of coding we Really did not get allot. Seems more like a mod than a true update.

[dex314]

Its a experimental build, the fluff is wrong with u man? U obviously dont understand what to expect from a experimental build.

 

Only joke here is urself really.

 

I think you’re actually the one confused about the purpose of experimental builds. We’re allowed to play before the stable release so we CAN point out all the things we dont like and are broken. Op’s attitude may have been a bit sour but feedback is exactly what the pimps benefit from. So when you say he doesnt understand what to expect from an experimental build you’re being ridiculous because he can expect whatever he wants and has the right to make that known. Its the pimps’ perrogative to decide what to do with that feedback.

[johnperkins21]

Well, to be sure, I wouldn't describe how LONG they stay down for as excessively long. Perhaps it's something they'll tweak further.

 

In the patch notes it was stated that this was done to help recognize zombies that aren't "dead" yet. When knocked down before, you might think they're dead as they stay down for a while before getting back up. This hasn't really bothered me all that much, but I've only had a couple of single zombie attacks where I would even get an opportunity to hit one that was on the ground. I think they should make the delay about half a second longer, but of the issues I have with this build, this is at the very bottom of the list. I also don't play on a server, so lag isn't something I've experienced, which could very easily change how someone views this change.

[open6l]

In the patch notes it was stated that this was done to help recognize zombies that aren't "dead" yet. When knocked down before, you might think they're dead as they stay down for a while before getting back up. This hasn't really bothered me all that much, but I've only had a couple of single zombie attacks where I would even get an opportunity to hit one that was on the ground. I think they should make the delay about half a second longer, but of the issues I have with this build, this is at the very bottom of the list. I also don't play on a server, so lag isn't something I've experienced, which could very easily change how someone views this change.

 

Well, they've also added that questionable XP indicator in the bottom right of the screen that tells you EXACTLY when a zombie is dead. No need to have them instantly jump up since you know by the XP indicator.

[Perren]

Can I have your stuff?

[Psychodabble]

They don't stay down as long but they don't seem able to reach as well as in A16, therefore I'm able to hit them 3 times before I have to move out of reach. Give it a bit of time and see if you can master the new rhythm as I think you'll find you can adapt quite easily.

 

The rhythm is no problem at all. In fact, if you've got the intestinal fortitude, you can stand in one spot without moving and kill any standard zed 1-on-1 without taking a hit. You just have to observe the animation and strike as soon as they recover from the last hit. There are "seams" between the hit recovery animation and the wind up to strike animation that are quite clear if you look. If you ♥♥♥♥ it up you might die, but I've done it more than few times just to test.

 

Still, the point remains. I found the old knock down and close for the kill style of A16 to be VERY fun. Even with the addition of power attacks, which are nice, A17 melee has not been nearly as much fun for me so far, and I'm a melee-loving, machete freak.

[Fatal]

Sheshh, where to start.

 

1. You're wrong. It's not NO loot from zombies. They occasionally still do drop loot, and when they do it'll be more likely to be good loot. It also stops them from being farmed loot pinatas.

 

2. You're wrong. You CAN use bandages on your toolbar. Don't know why you can't.

 

3. The black stamina bar is reflecting accumulated damage, it can be recovered by eating/drinking.

 

4. You're wrong. Zombies don't always leap to their feet after being knocked down. If not killed they will slowly get up, but you've got the opportunity to "hit 'em while they're down".

 

5. Perk points were advertised WELL in advance. Unless you've been willfully ignoring basically every post from the Pimps this should not have been a surpise.

 

6. Encumbrance can be overcome through spending on Strength related perks. It's slot based for simplicity, and I for one, would HATE to see a weight based system put in. Amongst other things this IS a building game and weight based encumbrance would KILL that dead.

 

7. Enjoy A16. Forever, if that's what you want.

 

wait.. you are a moderator?!.. so basically you just told a person. that paid real money for this, software you didnt create that he was wrong about his opinion on software he bought and since you didnt like his attitude you tell him to go ahead and go back to A16 that you basically dont give a ♥♥♥♥. Am I understanding that correctly?

 

Oh and he is right about some of the things he is experiencing. Just because you are not experiencing the same problems, or he isnt on the forums daily to know what updates were to expect.. he really didnt deserve the attitude you handed him. I personally dont care if you get mad but im going to call you out. He didnt offend anyone, he didnt call anyone any names, He didnt use any type of racial slurs; but you treated him like ♥♥♥♥ with your response. I think someone really needs to take a look harder look at your title to be honest because from that response you are not setting a very good example at all to anyone.

 

Rant over.

[Psychodabble]

In the patch notes it was stated that this was done to help recognize zombies that aren't "dead" yet. When knocked down before, you might think they're dead as they stay down for a while before getting back up. This hasn't really bothered me all that much, but I've only had a couple of single zombie attacks where I would even get an opportunity to hit one that was on the ground. I think they should make the delay about half a second longer, but of the issues I have with this build, this is at the very bottom of the list. I also don't play on a server, so lag isn't something I've experienced, which could very easily change how someone views this change.

 

I did not know this was the logic behind it. If that's the case, they should just go ahead and revert the change in the next build. I can't believe that anyone seriously had trouble knowing when a zombie was dead.

[Fatal]

I did not know this was the logic behind it. If that's the case, they should just go ahead and revert the change in the next build. I can't believe that anyone seriously had trouble knowing when a zombie was dead.

 

isnt that part of the fun though, I know of many times I thought i killed a zombie to run up and loot it and it wasnt dead. I dunno, I mean I like the change of the jumping up immediately but I think I would have liked it more if it was more random. Now I just stand there and wait for them to do it.

[Psychodabble]

isnt that part of the fun though, I know of many times I thought i killed a zombie to run up and loot it and it wasnt dead. I dunno, I mean I like the change of the jumping up immediately but I think I would have liked it more if it was more random. Now I just stand there and wait for them to do it.

 

Really? In A16 dead zeds would ragdoll...stunned ones stayed stiff. It's actually way more confusing now because they ragdoll on stun, then immediately pop back up...

 

I, too, just wait for them to do it becuase it's not worth the risk for one hit that won't be a kill shot anyway.

[OzHawkeye]

wait.. you are a moderator?!.. so basically you just told a person. that paid real money for this, software you didnt create that he was wrong about his opinion on software he bought and since you didnt like his attitude you tell him to go ahead and go back to A16 that you basically dont give a ♥♥♥♥. Am I understanding that correctly?

 

Oh and he is right about some of the things he is experiencing. Just because you are not experiencing the same problems, or he isnt on the forums daily to know what updates were to expect.. he really didnt deserve the attitude you handed him. I personally dont care if you get mad but im going to call you out. He didnt offend anyone, he didnt call anyone any names, He didnt use any type of racial slurs; but you treated him like ♥♥♥♥ with your response. I think someone really needs to take a look harder look at your title to be honest because from that response you are not setting a very good example at all to anyone.

 

Rant over.

 

Wrong is wrong Fatal.

 

For starters, the OP's attitude was hardly "beyond reproach", but even setting that aside, I called out issues where what the OP was stating was flat out wrong.

 

It is wrong to claim that there is NO loot from zombies.

 

It is wrong to claim that bandages cannot be used from the toolbar.

 

IT is wrong to claim that zombies always leap to their feet after being knocked down.

 

Now, I try to be very even handed in my moderation duties, and as helpful as I can be, but I'll never shirk from calling out claims that are flat out incorrect. I'm also failing to see where you think my response was overly aggressive too.

 

In particular, if someone REALLY does think A16 is the pinnacle of the game, then they REALLY are free to play that version, forever, if they like. For me A10 was my sentimental favourite, and I was playing that right up until A17 hit.

[Psychodabble]

It is wrong to claim that there is NO loot from zombies.

 

It is wrong to claim that bandages cannot be used from the toolbar.

 

IT is wrong to claim that zombies always leap to their feet after being knocked down.

 

I thought we went over these specific points and you agreed that the OP was not wrong, even if not perfectly accurate.

 

I'm not sure how much progress is being made here. It seems like you're more interested in defending the update and your post than clarifiying feedback.

[OzHawkeye]

I thought we went over these specific points and you agreed that the OP was not wrong, even if not perfectly accurate.

 

I'm not sure how much progress is being made here. It seems like you're more interested in defending the update and your post than clarifiying feedback.

 

The OP was, in fact, on what they wrote, incorrect. There can't be any real argument on that score.

 

Yes, loot has been greatly reduced (at least in terms of frequency) in this Alpha. Personally, I'm a big fan of that, since the primary threat in the game ought not to be, to my thinking, also the primary loot source.

 

Yes, there may be some delays for some people in the bandage activating, and to be sure, I'm no fan of how often I'm having to use a bandage (so I'm not claiming to be 100% in love with this update), but the OP was completely inaccurate in their claim that they can't be used from the toolbar.

 

Yes, the speed with which zombies who weren't killed but were knocked down can be fairly fast, and this may well be an issue on multiplayer servers where latency is also a factor, but again, that's not what the OP claimed.

 

I absolutely do not want to shut down debate, I have no desire to censor negative opinions, and the very last thing I want to do is turn the forums into a self-congratulatory echo chamber, but at the same time, false claims need to be refuted.

 

Please understand, this post, lacking tone of voice or body language, is absolutely not meant in any harsh way. My job, such as it is, on these forums, is definitely not to stifle negative feedback, and had it been so, I wouldn't have accepted it in the first place.

[Fatal]

Wrong is wrong Fatal.

 

For starters, the OP's attitude was hardly "beyond reproach", but even setting that aside, I called out issues where what the OP was stating was flat out wrong.

 

It is wrong to claim that there is NO loot from zombies.

 

It is wrong to claim that bandages cannot be used from the toolbar.

 

IT is wrong to claim that zombies always leap to their feet after being knocked down.

 

Now, I try to be very even handed in my moderation duties, and as helpful as I can be, but I'll never shirk from calling out claims that are flat out incorrect. I'm also failing to see where you think my response was overly aggressive too.

 

In particular, if someone REALLY does think A16 is the pinnacle of the game, then they REALLY are free to play that version, forever, if they like. For me A10 was my sentimental favourite, and I was playing that right up until A17 hit.

 

And I am not arguing the fact you brought up valid points in your response but , personally you could have left out the last statement., wasnt very tactful on your part. Just because im angry about something doesnt mean im wrong., but to be told.. oh well.. go back to a previous build and stay there .. that probably would add fuel to my fire.

 

TFP doesnt owe anyone anything when it comes to patches or updates. Yes its an unfinished game and Ive been around steam to know that I have seen alpha unfinished games fall from the planet. But my point is .. dont tell someone to go away, or just use something thats outdated or previous with the attitude "i dont care"

[Guppycur]

Moderators are people too. Don't let the tag upset you, oz is a player too.

 

...and he's right. =)

[ravend]

This is just not a valuable response.

 

Doesn't make it less true. Learn to adapt and exploit like we did in a16.

[Vintorez]

Melee is just so unpleasant now with how fast zombies retaliate and no reverse sprint, trying to land a swing while sprinting by an enemy at 23 fps and constant microstutter is disgusting, I always preferred melee before but I don't know how it's supposed to be viable until you have the 100% knockdown chance perk. I really don't like playing Arrow Crafting Simulator.

[Guppycur]

Doesn't make it less true. Learn to adapt and exploit like we did in a16.

 

This.

 

When a16 hit, "it's too hard!". Until it wasn't.

 

Our day 7 and 14 hordes were spent untouched by zombies. (Until I jumped down after 4am because I was bored).

[Fatal]

This.

 

When a16 hit, "it's too hard!". Until it wasn't.

 

Our day 7 and 14 hordes were spent untouched by zombies. (Until I jumped down after 4am because I was bored).

 

Those were the days lolol

[Eyegore]

2. There seems to be some delay with bandages til they are...equipped? If you select them on your toolbar and try to use immediately, as one does in a heated combat situation, it won't work. You only have to wait a second or two until they work, but a second or two of continuous clicking while you are running/fighting for your life feels like an eternity. My first death was because I switched to bandages, clicked to use, and flipped quickly back to my club, not realizing the bandage hadn't applied.

 

The same thing happened to me, I was running from dogs and bleeding and I quickly used a bandage and what? It didn't work? I switched back to bandages to do it again and now it worked, but I know it should have worked and didn't the first time. I survived, barely.

 

4. He's not wrong. Knockdown recovery time compared to A16 is REALLY fast. It used to be that if you were quick you could get in 3-5 hits on a downed zed before it got up. Now, you get ONE if you're quick. If you're not, you get none.

 

Agreed. In a16 and before, when a zombie gets knocked down I circle around with my club to get a good hit on it's head, but there's no time for any of that now because the instant they hit the ground, they're already starting to stand back up, so I get one free, ineffective, non-headshot in the gut or leg as it stands back up. Instead of making the zombie more vulnerable, falling down is like a zombie dodge tactic.

 

Encumbrance is lame but I can deal with it.

 

Perks have always been TFP trying to emulate Fallout. I like the new system a bit less than the old. I still can't see where the perk requirements are, only when they become available. It's an okay system except for the level gates, which are completely un-needed and should be removed. Jeez, TFP, why can't you just let someone specialize their skills how they want without putting ridiculous level gates on everything? It forces everyone to be more generic. Just give us points to spend every level and let us spend them HOW WE CHOOSE.

[gwhit]

There is no good encumbrance, screw encumbrance, too many games are already infected with inventory management mini games and I don't like that 7 Days has decided this is a good idea.

 

Simple to mod out, go look in the mod forums already ones there.

[Eyegore]

Wrong is wrong Fatal.

It is wrong to claim that bandages cannot be used from the toolbar.

 

IT is wrong to claim that zombies always leap to their feet after being knocked down.

 

It is WRONG for you to keep saying this guy is WRONG when other people have pointed out these are real and valid issues. The wrongness that you point out is pedantic. It is TRUE that roughly 99% of all zeds now don't drop loot. It's TRUE that there is a new problem with bandages on the toolbar. It is TRUE that zombies begin to stand immediately with no delay like before. It's in the patch notes, right? So stop basically lying to make a weak point.

[SunGod]

Ugh, and now the Return Of The Universe's Fastest-Digging Beings returns in A17, with zombies that have ultra-fast digging skills. This was something that was in - what, A10, 11, 12 or something? It was awful then and it's awful now. I can spent hours trying to dig down into the ground to even make a basic hovel, and then a random horde pops up and blasts down into the ground within minutes and just ruins me. It's just not even remotely fun. Do *ALL* the zombies have to be able to dig? Why not just have ONE specialized digger that's easier to target? (The screamer is specialized, the spiders are specialized, the cops are specialized... maybe diggers should get that honor, too?)

 

After a few more hours of play after my initial observations post, I'm feeling the zombies are OP - spawn too frequently (especially random hordes), are too smart (basically negating the point of having any defenses), and it's too hard to get going. I'm maybe 8+ hours in and still can't get the skills to make a forge. It's nuts.

 

Yeah, I'll probably just bail on this experimental until there's some more gameplay tuning done on A17. Hopefully the finished release A17.0 deals with this stuff, because to me it's one of the less-enjoyable updates I've played in years -- looks great (especially on max settings across the board), but it's a real no-thrills grind to me. We'll see...

[Kam R.]

"Wah, the game isn't easy like it used to be!" Welcome to the new norm with 7 Days. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

This is just not a valuable response.

 

A funny one nonetheless, if you read it in Trader Rekt's voice in your mind.

[OzHawkeye]

It is WRONG for you to keep saying this guy is WRONG when other people have pointed out these are real and valid issues. The wrongness that you point out is pedantic. It is TRUE that roughly 99% of all zeds now don't drop loot. It's TRUE that there is a new problem with bandages on the toolbar. It is TRUE that zombies begin to stand immediately with no delay like before. It's in the patch notes, right? So stop basically lying to make a weak point.

 

Then the OP should consider TYPING what he MEANS. I responded to what he WROTE.

 

And frankly, your accusation that I'm "lying" is quite thoroughly resented. If you'd written that to someone else, I would have edited it out.