Initial thoughts

[bloom_meister]

Very disappointed

 

Stamina usage is too high, combined with no more stamina drinks = grindfest of epic proportions. I knew this would happen when MM asked for people to test how far they could run without going out of stam. I asked at the time if the stamina drinks would be left in to balance this out, no response and now I know why, more massive nerfs to slow you down

 

perk system is great, really like most of it but WHY..W H Y did you lock every ****** thing behind a level limit? oh yes, thats right, to force people to grind levels instead of picking what they want, god forbid someone might want to put their first 20 points into making themselves an awesome archer, for example, no NO N.O.! instead lets force you to level to 100 to be that awesome archer, level locking the perks destroys their fun

 

LCB change = read the thread, you messed up big time

 

Food and drinks changes? counter intuitive, not needed, not fun, more micro management to...yes! slow you down

 

Death debuff - really? dying is most often its own penalty with having to possibly run long distances to recover your gear

 

Better pathing = well done Fatal

 

satisfying melee combat = good

 

Did I mention going out of stam breaking a single normal box? - retarded

 

Backpack changes - I recall Roland telling everyone to stop panicking because at the end of day 1 you could, if you wanted to spend the points, be easily back up to 32 slots. Well no Roland, thats total BS, because, oh YEAH! LEVEL LIMITS!

 

New textures are good, some thought obviously went into some of the new POI's and they are fun

 

 

Made it to level 12 before the grind wore me down and then an amazing thing happened, me and my friend, with getting on for 20k hours between us, super pumped for A17, got bored and logged out.

 

Thats what you did to your game

 

 

ps. New players are going to get destroyed on even the normal setting

[Poojam]

I never realized how much I sprint strafed or sprint backed up until I couldn't do it. Apparently my movements were very diverse. I feel like I'm on a set of railroad tracks now.

 

PVP is going to be awfully boring, because you are so slow at strafing and run out of stamina in about 3 seconds.

[madmole]

I'm level 40 by day 13, I'm not sure how that is really slowing the game down to a grind. Buy cardio and you can run nearly infinitely with no aid. Drink coffee for nearly unlimited stamina. Get educated before thinking its so bad.

[Batman!]

At first I thought the stamina drained pretty fast... then I noticed it recovers pretty much just as fast, and this is without any perks to improve it. Feels like a nice balance so far imo.

[unclevlad]

I'm level 40 by day 13, I'm not sure how that is really slowing the game down to a grind. Buy cardio and you can run nearly infinitely with no aid. Drink coffee for nearly unlimited stamina. Get educated before thinking its so bad.

 

I think too many seasoned players have gotten used to running everywhere all the time because reasons. Having to walk some of the time, at least until you really work Rule #1, is not a bad thing. Just need to break the autopilot habits that have been built up.

[madmole]

I think too many seasoned players have gotten used to running everywhere all the time because reasons. Having to walk some of the time, at least until you really work Rule #1, is not a bad thing. Just need to break the autopilot habits that have been built up.

 

I take my armor off when I travel places and just wear it to fight in POIS because you run so fast without it. There are mods that lighten its weight but I haven't found any yet. Once you get a vehicle its probably not an issue either.

[Aldranon]

The only thing that seriously disappointed me was the three vultures that followed me across two biomes and into a third... On day 1... I was not injured, but I was pretty sure they would attack once I was (looking at streamer history). I quit that game.

 

Melee is fun, and easy if you have room to maneuver. I enjoy the power attacks.

 

Perk level gating doesn't make a lot of sense for technical perks if 95% of my experience is from killing zombies. But its workable.

 

I like that entering POI's are now tactical decisions based on the need for food, for me.

[RestInPieces]

My thoughts on these thoughts.

 

-Stamina usage is too high, more massive nerfs to slow you down

-Food and drinks changes? counter intuitive, not needed, not fun, more micro management to...yes! slow you down

-Death debuff - really? dying is most often its own penalty with having to possibly run long distances to recover your gear

-Backpack changes - I recall Roland telling everyone to stop panicking because at the end of day 1 you could, if you wanted to spend the points, be easily back up to 32 slots. Well no Roland, thats total BS, because, oh YEAH! LEVEL LIMITS!

-Made it to level 12 before the grind wore me down

-ps. New players are going to get destroyed on even the normal setting

 

-It seems that you were too used to that nonsensically large stamina pool and drinking abuse that made you forget that stamina even existed. Stamina felt great to me - it's regeneration a bit too generous.

-The food/water system seems like a good change, just wish that food and water were not so abundant, even with low loot levels. No adversity at all there.

-Dying was not a penalty - it was a "buff", with which you casually reseted your status. Which was unacceptable for a survival game.

-Backpack changes are great. At least, mindlessly taking everything from every container like a bot was not my definition of fun.

-Leveling is extremely easy.

-A new player would be destroyed by boredom if your suggestions are applied, as soon as he stops being a new player (like a few rl hours).

 

Apparently my movements were very diverse. I feel like I'm on a set of railroad tracks now.

 

Apparently you were used to having wheels instead of feet. Very glad that ridiculous 360 degree sprinting went away.

[Poojam]

Apparently you were used to having wheels instead of feet. Very glad that ridiculous 360 degree sprinting went away.

 

Strafing is incredibly important in an FPS. Why they would nerf the player motion speed while strafing is completely beyond me. Go fight someone. You might as well be having a stand-still duel.

[Edem_Alive]

-Dying was not a penalty - it was a "buff", with which you casually reseted your status. Which was unacceptable for a survival game.

 

I kinda like this quote Restinpieces.

 

I don't think the death penalties are viable for PVP though. PVE yes.

[Poojam]

-Dying was not a penalty - it was a "buff", with which you casually reseted your status. Which was unacceptable for a survival game.

 

I kinda like this quote Restinpieces.

 

I don't think the death penalties are viable for PVP though. PVE yes.

 

Yea so let's think about this scenario. You and me fight. I kill you and take your loot. It's mid-late game, and I have max slots available and can carry all of your inventory along with my armor at a good run speed with minimal stamina costs.

 

You come back for revenge and want to recover your equipment. You are gimped by the death penalty, which has reduced your stamina pool and strength so that you are slower when wearing your amor. Even if you do kill me and recover your items, you can not get away with more than about 1/2 or 2/3rds of them because you are completely encumbered.

 

Am I missing something? Are your resists/damage buffs crap too during the death penalty?

[JCrook1028]

So a game that is not designed for PvP has a death penalty that is harsh on Pvp? I don't see the problem....

[Edem_Alive]

Yea so let's think about this scenario. You and me fight. I kill you and take your loot. It's mid-late game, and I have max slots available and can carry all of your inventory along with my armor at a good run speed with minimal stamina costs.

 

You come back for revenge and want to recover your equipment. You are gimped by the death penalty, which has reduced your stamina pool and strength so that you are slower when wearing your amor. Even if you do kill me and recover your items, you can not get away with more than about 1/2 or 2/3rds of them because you are completely encumbered.

 

Am I missing something? Are your resists/damage buffs crap too during the death penalty?

 

I think you missed where I said I don't think death penalties are viable for PVP. You also never killed me, cuz we already know how that played out.

[Gazz]

I don't think the death penalties are viable for PVP though. PVE yes.

Good point. I'll see if I can exclude player kills.

[Poojam]

I think you missed where I said I don't think death penalties are viable for PVP. You also never killed me, cuz we already know how that played out.

 

Oh yea. I saw it. I just wanted it to be written down, because I don't think anyone that matters understands how stupid it is.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Good point. I'll see if I can exclude player kills.

 

Corrected. And thank you.

[Poojam]

I'm level 40 by day 13, I'm not sure how that is really slowing the game down to a grind. Buy cardio and you can run nearly infinitely with no aid. Drink coffee for nearly unlimited stamina. Get educated before thinking its so bad.

 

I can't make materials to craft or build anything useful until I insert X number of hours into "playing" the game to get Y carrot. Been around since A9, and I think I "worked from home" the day after when every previous alpha has come out. After an hour, and I have no desire to play it. Can't be bothered. I'm not interested in gimping around for 100 levels just to get an auger. Block removal speed by digging is atrocious.

 

Sandbox, to me, meant you weren't confined to a certain set of rules. Now. There is one giant rule. It's that you must play for a ton of time, really crappily, to earn the right to play the game uninhibited.

[Edem_Alive]

Good point. I'll see if I can exclude player kills.

 

Well don't go off and do it just because one guy said something. Think about it, think about PVP. We may be 1% but some of these changes are insane for our gameplay.

[Aldranon]

Strafing is incredibly important in an FPS. Why they would nerf the player motion speed while strafing is completely beyond me. Go fight someone. You might as well be having a stand-still duel.

 

 

Not true for 7D2D PvE anyway. I think the problem is you might be starting your melee attacks too close. You can Power attack a zombie from ranges that look like you will miss, so you just got to find that spot.

 

I power swing and walk one step back. Only when fighting large numbers and vultures (and puking cops when I find them) do I need other tactics.

 

With PvP, your complaint has merit.

[Poojam]

With PvP, your complaint has merit.

 

Just go ahead and assume whatever I post, I intend to mean in the context of PVP unless I specifically say otherwise.

[wordwaster]

I'm level 40 by day 13, I'm not sure how that is really slowing the game down to a grind. Buy cardio and you can run nearly infinitely with no aid. Drink coffee for nearly unlimited stamina. Get educated before thinking its so bad.

 

get educated? day 13 is 13 hours. that is a looooong time to go with only rng iron tools.

 

perk points are limited, but we are being told to "just take the Qol perks to lessen the effects of these new systems we implemented to slow you down" but we also need those perk points to unlock game necessities. there isn't "choice" in this system, there are just limits.

 

i haven't been able to play this build for more than 30 minutes at a time. because its boring. hitting a block a couple times and then resting to regain stamina over and over and over and over again isn't fun. having your hunger directly effect your stamina forces you to constantly eat, which isn't fun. having to eat 20 ears of corn to get your hunger up from 20 to full isn't fun. a pack of dogs on day 3 giving me a penalty that nerfs me to level 1 for an hour isn't fun.

 

 

this game isn't fun anymore. its been intentionally made slow, grindy, and limited. for the life of me i cannot figure out why.

[Pico]

Well, I'm loving it.

 

The stamina is mildly frustrating, but it rebuilds quicker than it did in A16. Use that rebuild time to pick up rocks instead of smashing rocks.

It's a very rich world in there.

The new geographical traps (places where Z's can pin you into deep dips in the terrain) add another new challenge.

 

As with A16, it'll severely punish mistakes, and gives even more ways to make those mistakes, but it's going to be a fun learning curve.

 

Really appreciating the audio alerts of zombies on the move.

[CrashKZ]

get educated? day 13 is 13 hours. that is a looooong time to go with only rng iron tools.

 

perk points are limited, but we are being told to "just take the Qol perks to lessen the effects of these new systems we implemented to slow you down" but we also need those perk points to unlock game necessities. there isn't "choice" in this system, there are just limits.

 

i haven't been able to play this build for more than 30 minutes at a time. because its boring. hitting a block a couple times and then resting to regain stamina over and over and over and over again isn't fun. having your hunger directly effect your stamina forces you to constantly eat, which isn't fun. having to eat 20 ears of corn to get your hunger up from 20 to full isn't fun. a pack of dogs on day 3 giving me a penalty that nerfs me to level 1 for an hour isn't fun.

 

 

this game isn't fun anymore. its been intentionally made slow, grindy, and limited. for the life of me i cannot figure out why.

 

 

This. On day one, my friend and I were micro-managing our health with bandages any time we take damage. And of course stamina is lowered for more micro-managing with food that now has a chance of giving you food poisoning. We're potentially being punished for simply doing what's necessary to counter-act a mechanic we can't avoid. It feels like a chore doing anything: running, fighting, mining weak blocks.

 

On day 2, a pack of dogs spawned and killed me. I didn't stand a chance because you have no stamina and no viable weapons to defend yourself. At the same time that happened my friend goes into a simple house and finds at least 20 zombies https://i.imgur.com/BqzuiJj.jpg when he dies. We then get penalized for an hour for dying. And if you keep dying, it keeps lowering your max health even more. This makes no sense to me; If I died the first time, why would putting me in a ♥♥♥♥tier situation help me get through the fight next time? I'm all for punishing the player for dying, but this death debuff mechanic is just stupid. There are far better routes than adding more time gates in a game that doesn't have microtransactions. For the first time after hundreds of hours in this game, we turned on the debug and creative menus to explore the update.

 

 

On the other end though, when you do level up enough, things get a billion times easier. It actually makes no sense how it's set up. There's a perk where melee kills give you 50 stamina. FIFTY. That's on top of other perks that lower melee stamina drain and increase stamin regen and possibly the Charismatic Nature one should a teammate get that. A grindy early game =/= more end game. I feel like they made the start more grindy so it took longer to get to end game rather than adding to end game. If it stays this way, I'll definitely be modding more than just the horrendous UI this alpha.

[Res1011]

Hi,

 

Not sure if I agree with everything that is said, but I do think things with PVP need to be fixed.

 

Thanks

[Qyzer]

...

perk system is great, really like most of it but WHY..W H Y did you lock every ****** thing behind a level limit? oh yes, thats right, to force people to grind levels instead of picking what they want, god forbid someone might want to put their first 20 points into making themselves an awesome archer, for example, no NO N.O.! instead lets force you to level to 100 to be that awesome archer, level locking the perks destroys their fun

...

 

Agreed. If you don't want to report bugs here is a mod for it:

 

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?68183-MOD-Change-all-Player-Level-Requirements-to-Level-1

 

There are already implicit level limits, adding explicit ones just defeats the purpose of having a point system. If you don't want someone to have something until level 40, just make it cost more or put it at the end of a chain of costs that equal 40 or whatever level you want it to be available.

 

 

Otherwise, I'm really enjoying A17e, but levelgating is a horrible kludge to what is otherwise looking to be a fun system, that just needs some tweaks here and there (and all level requirement removed, as noted)

[SickPuppy]

Jumped in the deep end settings on Insane / always run:

 

+ There's definitely way more zombies outdoors and if u engage one others seem to join in pretty quickly so you're dealing with a group. Way better challenge now. But almost impossible to loot POI's on the first couple of days, I'd definitely put points into agility first next time.

 

- They run much slower than a16 and give up chase relatively quickly, they also run a bit wonky following a strange offset path towards u. But new ai is better.

 

+ The vulture ai is excellent, picking it's moment to attack and hunting u for a long time, one followed me into a building from a hole in the ceiling we were dueling in a small bedroom it even tried to follow me through into the kitchen but I closed the door just in time.

 

+- New POI's are fantastic, the new variations are a real threat, entering buildings should be risky. But the respawning sleeper bug still exists and it's even more prolific now, there can be half a dozen sleepers in a small house, I lure them away instead of killing them, head back to the house and another dozen spawn in different positions. FPS takes a real big dive close to and inside POI's.

 

+- The new power attack is essentially the old left button attack, I'm thinking the Flurry of Blows perk might make some use of the left attack as it doesn't knock them down or do much damage early on. I'm not sure the melee is more challenging than a16 from what the early streamers have said, maybe more a case of just getting used to the new mechanics and the zombies running slower really hurts the challenge.

 

+- Perk system levelgating / locked skills, not sure about this one maybe leaning towards a16, I agree there is a lot locked away now, iron tools are locked behind a few levels of Intellect but I find that's a luxury perk on always run so I'll be stuck on stone axe for awhile unless trader has any. This plus...

 

+ 25% loot drop is really great now, Day 5 I only have 20 arrows, no pills, no first aid bandages, no magazines, no armor, no extra clothing, no weapons, even had my first old sham sandwich in a couple of alphas and also had to buy drinks from the vending machine, it feels like a survival game.

 

+ Overall I'm loving the harsh survival challenge, zombies do a ton of damage to blocks now, spikes have been greatly nerfed no more 64 crawlers on horde night, old ideas aren't so effective and we have to adapt. But I see why people are complaining about locked skills and debuff penalties, the harsh challenge isn't for everyone but this is how I envisioned how a survival game should be.

 

- I miss looting / harvesting zombies, fat n bones was my money maker.