Has anyone actually made these?

[Morloc]

I think items like the blunderbuss might get some usage if you could loot them. While I wouldn't waste my time cobbling together some questionable antique weapon, I might use one for a time if I found it. I can't recall if hide and scrap armor was loot-able, but if it was better than what I had; sure, I'd throw it on. Gearing up to actually produce these things is another matter.

 

Another option for the blunderbuss to make it attractive, especially in the early game, would be to disconnect it from any skill. Everyone's "skill" in using the blunderbuss would be the same and while it wouldn't get better, it would be high. If this is already true, then the base ability to hit and do damage should be higher. Grab that old thing hanging over some mantle and wow!, this will keep me alive until I can find something better.

 

-Morloc

[LuckyStar]

I think items like the blunderbuss might get some usage if you could loot them. While I wouldn't waste my time cobbling together some questionable antique weapon, I might use one for a time if I found it. I can't recall if hide and scrap armor was loot-able, but if it was better than what I had; sure, I'd throw it on. Gearing up to actually produce these things is another matter.

 

Another option for the blunderbuss to make it attractive, especially in the early game, would be to disconnect it from any skill. Everyone's "skill" in using the blunderbuss would be the same and while it wouldn't get better, it would be high. If this is already true, then the base ability to hit and do damage should be higher. Grab that old thing hanging over some mantle and wow!, this will keep me alive until I can find something better.

 

-Morloc

 

Completely agree with everything you said there.

[SittingDuck]

I think the blunderbuss would be cool when

a) you get a meele attack instead of a zoom in on a right click (it looks like a club, right?)

b) it would not get you stuck in a autoreload after a shot

c) If it had a high knock down changse for sereral Zombies

[sargentcobra]

I have made scrap armor because some new games I can't find a whole set of iron armor or steel armor schematics. the only thing I have never made is sod I don't use it

[Aerial]

I think items like the blunderbuss might get some usage if you could loot them. While I wouldn't waste my time cobbling together some questionable antique weapon, I might use one for a time if I found it. I can't recall if hide and scrap armor was loot-able, but if it was better than what I had; sure, I'd throw it on. Gearing up to actually produce these things is another matter.

 

Another option for the blunderbuss to make it attractive, especially in the early game, would be to disconnect it from any skill. Everyone's "skill" in using the blunderbuss would be the same and while it wouldn't get better, it would be high. If this is already true, then the base ability to hit and do damage should be higher. Grab that old thing hanging over some mantle and wow!, this will keep me alive until I can find something better.

 

-Morloc

 

I frequently mod the blunderbuss to be craftable without the forge (scrap iron, springs, wood, maybe a mech part). It's really valuable as a dog/vulture protection device for the first week or so.

[Sedlina]

I think the blunderbuss would be cool when

...

b) it would not get you stuck in a autoreload after a shot

...

 

Well this was something that was addressed in detail during and after the weapon quality rework. It isn't just something that limits the effectiveness of the blunderbuss. It also limits a lot of other weapons. The X-bow stands out like a sore thumb on this as well. The forced automatic reload is something most fps games have ditched about 10 years ago. We can only hope that the pimps will embrace the new modern ways eventually.

 

Weapons with long reload animations just need 2 basic features to make them viable.

A) The option swap them without a reload and

B) the oompf behind them to actually give the player a reason to use it

Just take the single shot shotgun from New Vegas as prime example (Yes I'm using new vegas as mod/pimp bait as it seems like one of the few references that usually is considers worth their time). It is an earlygame weapon. The DPS is horrible thanks to the long reload. It will never outperform other shutguns in pure overall performance. But the dmg output in that one shot stays relevant for the entire game, if you opt to carry one with you.

 

 

 

I suppose there's always that...

 

 

PS: Loving your avatar. That's really cute.

 

off topic. The avatar is from Chi's Sweet Home. Short 3-5 min videos ... basically the creator just tries to kill you with laughing fit streaks ;p I recommend you try one of the older ones if you want to give it a try (the 2d drawn anime clips not the new 3d stuff)

[Scyris]

Another gameplay system I virutally never use is the electricity system, I don't find much use for it, other than the blade fans and the shock poles for horde night, that is, if I even bother. Then again, in the base game, I never get far enough to where its mostly ferals. I tend to get bored once I unlock steel as there is really nothing else to keep going for.

 

As for the force auto reload of the crossbow: plan ahead. I'd rather it be auto reload as it would get annoying very quickly to keep having to hit R everytime I fire it once, unless they make it so left clicking also starts a reload if the weapon is empty, then again thats kinda the same thing as having to spam R.

[Benjiro]

Another gameplay system I virutally never use is the electricity system, I don't find much use for it, other than the blade fans and the shock poles for horde night, that is, if I even bother. Then again, in the base game, I never get far enough to where its mostly ferals. I tend to get bored once I unlock steel as there is really nothing else to keep going for.

 

+1 ...

 

Same for me, the content of electricity is nice but a lot of the game mechanics are simply missing. Electricity really need to be tied into:

 

* food spoiling + Fridges. Short duration anti spoiling.

* Food spoiling + Freezers. Long duration anti spoiling.

* Cooking more advanced meals with the oven.

* Underground digging is not possible without oxygen where you need air transportation ( and above ground air pipes / generators = gasses ).

* Batteries for your mining helmet / gun light ( subnautica did this very well )

* Batteries for maybe more advanced tools like drilles, screw machine, advanced workbenches like lates ( not sure this is written like this in English )

* Batteries for the nail gun...

 

Electricity has a lot of possibilities but unfortunately its so tied into defenses its use is limited. So much potential content beyond basic cave man tools

 

But those things are also more about realism and as we see with A16 / A17, a lot of changes are to move away from realism towards more cookie cut gameplay for XP/Perks, Dungeons, quests ...

[LuckyStar]

... those things are also more about realism and as we see with A16 / A17, a lot of changes are to move away from realism towards more cookie cut gameplay for XP/Perks, Dungeons, quests ...

 

Cookie cutter?

 

Not sure I agree with that.

 

Been playing games for 35+ years and have masters degree in business.

After years of watching Developers as a businessman I can now confidently state that:

 

"Sacrificing game play for realism is almost always a bad idea."

 

Yes there are exceptions but this isn't that kind of game.

This one already has fictional elements [aka zombies aren't really real].

 

Sometimes the term cookie-cutter get overused.

There are formulas that work because after years of testing, we know what people like and enjoy.

 

There are also things to avoid, like adding unnecessary items/systems/etc to provide more realism.

Sometimes they don't make the game better, they just satisfy pedantic whims.... which doesn't sell.

 

Just an opinion. I respect that you feel a different way.

[Benjiro]

Cookie cutter?

 

Coudln't disagree more strongly.

 

Been playing games for 35+ years and have masters degree in business.

After years of watching Developers as a businessman I can now confidently state that:

 

"Sacrificing game play for realism is almost always a bad idea."

 

Yes there are exceptions but this isn't that kind of game.

This one already has fictional elements [aka zombies aren't really real].

 

Sometimes the term cookie-cutter get overused and I feel like this was a good example.

There are formulas that work because after years of testing, we know what people like and enjoy.

 

Depends on the definition of realism ... We are not talking somebody learning how to become a electrician, mechanic, it specialist to build all the tools, now are we

 

The issue is more that people are tied into that things called dopamine receptors and they like instant gratification. See how loot boxes have turned games into more or less addictive gambling simulators. XP/Perks are simply a way to fast give people that rush.

 

Play some of the mods that have introduced food spoiling, there own take on food spoiling, steam powered electricity generation, more complex crafting and its actually those mods that are the more popular ones. Clearly showing their is a demand for the more complex gameplay.

 

7D2D is not a triple A game that focuses on that specific group of people, or it was not in the past. These recent changes make it feel they want to step away towards this more cookie cutter game play. Do not take my word for it. Here on this forum you do not see a lot of talk back from people mostly because you get creamed if you disagree with the direction 7D2D but if you watch a bunch of the youtube 7D2D players and the responses from people on the A17 changes... its a different ballgame.

 

We shall see where 7D2D is going to end up but from my book they are way too much trying to emulate triple A games like Fallout or mmorpg, what is cookie cutter to the bone. The problem is that 7D2D has no story line or triple a production. The game lives and dies by its story content or instant gratification and that is missing ( A17 is clearly the attempt to do this past part ).

 

Maybe my expectation are a lot higher then most people because A16 was more then stable to go to content creation and not reworking everything again ...

 

My personal expectation after 15 months of development was not some graphical improvements, dungeons, total reworked skills/perks but REAL actual content. Real new zombies, new animals, more content to find, electricity massively expanded to provide mid to late content ( they have the base structure of it in game!!! ), ... And here we are today, a lot of tricks to delay the early game play, removal of even more realistic elements and what else to show? People drooling over a jeep or a balloon. *sigh* ...

 

7D2D was a fun survival, crafting game with zombies. You had the ability to see a future with a even more expanded gameplay. But over time, more and more features are getting stripped for more typical cookie cutter gameplay with a focus (starting in A16) in A17, on dungeons, xp/perks, weapon modifiers, explore for the good loot, ... sounds familiar because that is almost exactly Fallout gameplay. But its a far step from the older 7D2D gameplay. So sorry but the cookie cutter comparison is dead on.

 

There are also things to avoid, like adding unnecessary items/systems/etc to provide more realism.

Sometimes they don't make the game better, they just satisfy pedantic whims.... which doesn't sell.

 

They had no problem selling between 2 to 5 million copies with the old system. So lets us not nitpick about what people like. There are different groups of people with different preferences. Up to now 7D2D focused more on niche market and did well in the sales. Because it was scratching a itch people had.

 

I know no matter what is say, we will not see eye to eye. I feel like i wast my time talking about this stuff because its clear TFPs have their own vision, a vision that simply has changed over the years and fits less and less in that niche market. Its their game, sure, but also their risk. A game build upon a niche community, is not so easy changeable.

 

I am sure people will play A17. I will play A17 but A16 was also the alpha i spend the fewest hours in compared to the older ones. But from my personal taste where A16 has gone, i know the game is changing into a gameplay style that i detest. And no offense but 15 months waiting for this *sigh* ...

 

Just an opinion. I respect that you feel a different way.

 

Np

[meganoth]

7D2D was a fun survival, crafting game with zombies. You had the ability to see a future with a even more expanded gameplay. But over time, more and more features are getting stripped for more typical cookie cutter gameplay with a focus (starting in A16) in A17, on dungeons, xp/perks, weapon modifiers, explore for the good loot, ... sounds familiar because that is almost exactly Fallout gameplay. But its a far step from the older 7D2D gameplay. So sorry but the cookie cutter comparison is dead on.

 

In at least one case I'm absolutely on your side, the "dungeons" with the boss zombies. I hate that artificial arcade style feature with all my heart.

 

But survival gameplay or learning-by-doing are not really new concepts, the latter "is almost exactly Fallout gameplay", isn't it? You can slap on everything you don't like a "cookie cutter" label and view everything you like as fresh and inspiring. But for me the innovation in 7D2D is the (working) combination of so many genres, including "cookie cutter" RPG, "cookie cutter" voxel world, "cookie cutter" tower defense and "cookie cutter" survival.

 

How is "explore for the good loot" a new focus, wasn't that in the game since ages? And if not, what was there that was so much better?

 

I am sure people will play A17. I will play A17 but A16 was also the alpha i spend the fewest hours in compared to the older ones. But from my personal taste where A16 has gone, i know the game is changing into a gameplay style that i detest. And no offense but 15 months waiting for this *sigh* ...

 

One new thing about A17 you completely ignore: It promises to make modding so much better and more powerful that a lot more peoples tastes can be satisfied with mods than before. This is a direction that makes it possible to give new players what they want AND players like us who have in my opinion more than anything else played 7D2D to death.

 

If TFP had added a few new zombie skins, animals and more electricity I know for sure that 90% of all players would have run through the new content in less than a month and would be calling for more. A developer can never keep up with his players, only a mass of modders can keep up with content creation. And since the developer can't keep up, veteran players get bored or frustrated, but to a large part the problem is that the player changed and not the game. You can see that with any PvE game out there, I don't know of a single exception.

[warmer]

Scrap leg armor solves the leg breaking ultra sneaky ninja crawler zombie problem. So ya I make it if I don't have anything better at the time. Usually not a full suit. That is a lot of resources I'd rather spend elsewhere, but leg early game it is great.

[LuckyStar]

One new thing about A17 you completely ignore: It promises to make modding so much better and more powerful that a lot more peoples tastes can be satisfied with mods than before. This is a direction that makes it possible to give new players what they want AND players like us who have in my opinion more than anything else played 7D2D to death.

 

If TFP had added a few new zombie skins, animals and more electricity I know for sure that 90% of all players would have run through the new content in less than a month and would be calling for more. A developer can never keep up with his players, only a mass of modders can keep up with content creation. And since the developer can't keep up, veteran players get bored or frustrated, but to a large part the problem is that the player changed and not the game. You can see that with any PvE game out there, I don't know of a single exception.

 

Agreed!

 

I think the push for Support of the Modding community is going to become more and more prevalent in the gaming industry.

 

One of the criteria Critics use to judge established games is how healthy the online community is.

When that slows down the game is considered dead or dying.

Mods can greatly extend that time.

 

I read a funny statistic about how many adults play The Sims 4 with Sex mods. Apparently it's popular.

Doubt EA expected that!

 

TFP is definitely on the right track by supporting the Modding community.

 

One day some genius developer is going to start buying Mods from people and officially placing them in the game.

Paying Modders to come up with content you'd never have thought of otherwise..... just seems like good business sense.

Kind of like subcontracting.

[meganoth]

One day some genius developer is going to start buying Mods from people and officially placing them in the game.

Paying Modders to come up with content you'd never have thought of otherwise..... just seems like good business sense.

Kind of like subcontracting.

 

Bethesda already tried this. But got heavy flak for it because

 

A) they wanted to sell the mods and keep about 75% of the money !

 

B) modders usually copy a lot from each other and nobody has any problems with that. But what happens when a modder uses work by others and now gets payed?

 

So they had to call it off again

[LuckyStar]

Bethesda already tried this. But got heavy flak for it because

 

A) they wanted to sell the mods and keep about 75% of the money !

 

B) modders usually copy a lot from each other and nobody has any problems with that. But what happens when a modder uses work by others and now gets payed?

 

So they had to call it off again

 

Bethesda has made a lot of terrible mistakes in that sense and had paid for it.

 

Someone will do it right one day and set the standard.

[Benjiro]

Bethesda already tried this. But got heavy flak for it because

 

A) they wanted to sell the mods and keep about 75% of the money !

 

B) modders usually copy a lot from each other and nobody has any problems with that. But what happens when a modder uses work by others and now gets payed?

 

So they had to call it off again

 

Add to this: The moment a person pays for a mod, there is a legal requirement for it to work. Now if a free mod does not work, well, bummer and you move on. But the moment cash changes hands, it becomes a legal contract and a lot of consumer laws go into motion. And it can get very complex ( laws differ from country to country ).

 

 

I am more in favor of mod authors actually working as DLC content creators, where mods are actual content published under the company. And not mods skimming money for skins, and other frivolous ****.

 

That actually gives mod authors a reason because they can earn some real money ( Youtube for mods. Patent pending ) with more quality released products.

 

The real future in my mind is games that act like building blocks for new games on top of it. Most people do not have the time or patience to learn complete graphical engines but want to introduce new content, stories, etc into a existing engine. If this is properly combined and supported by the gaming company above it, you can generate a lot of revenue.

 

As we have seen with Skyrim, their is a hunger for people to have new content in popular games.

 

But just trowing 3 or 4 dollar skin mods online, is just disgusting. Paid mods need to act like DLCs, with real content. And contract in place where other DLC authors can potentially reuse assets ( for a fee ) or require a specific master Mod to be present.

[LuckyStar]

Add to this: The moment a person pays for a mod, there is a legal requirement for it to work. Now if a free mod does not work, well, bummer and you move on. But the moment cash changes hands, it becomes a legal contract and a lot of consumer laws go into motion. And it can get very complex ( laws differ from country to country ).

 

 

I am more in favor of mod authors actually working as DLC content creators, where mods are actual content published under the company. And not mods skimming money for skins, and other frivolous ****.

 

That actually gives mod authors a reason because they can earn some real money ( Youtube for mods. Patent pending ) with more quality released products.

 

The real future in my mind is games that act like building blocks for new games on top of it. Most people do not have the time or patience to learn complete graphical engines but want to introduce new content, stories, etc into a existing engine. If this is properly combined and supported by the gaming company above it, you can generate a lot of revenue.

 

As we have seen with Skyrim, their is a hunger for people to have new content in popular games.

 

But just trowing 3 or 4 dollar skin mods online, is just disgusting. Paid mods need to act like DLCs, with real content. And contract in place where other DLC authors can potentially reuse assets ( for a fee ) or require a specific master Mod to be present.

 

I agree with some of what you're saying.

Not all though.

 

Let's say Modder come up with things like:

 

- In game Music Player

- Inventory Sorting System

- Voice Chat that works [unlike Steam]

- Better Lighting

 

These aren't frivolous. They might be things that are in high demand.

How do you offer those as a DLC?

Are you saying they don't fit into your criteria so they should be ignored?

 

What I'm suggesting is a system where Modders get paid for their work.

Of course it's proportional. Small mod = small pay, Large Mod = more pay etc.

 

Doesn't always have to be something sold as an individual paid add-on to the game.

Sometimes Developers should buy those mods themselves.

They can they tack that on to a large DLC update making it even more robust.

 

That way you get the solid content that a DLC should be and Modders are incentivized to create more and better content.

 

 

Just one suggestion.

There have got to be many, many ways to get some revenue to the modders that aren't going to break a developer's budget.

[Sedlina]

Regarding the blunderbuss

 

Just to double down on this to go with other FPS games here. You know that new Fallout title that is about to roll out in a week?

Guess what - they have a blackpowder shotgun in it.

With an 8 second reload timer, medium range, poor accuracy

buuuut

it absolutely brutalizes everything with that single shot.

 

and you can cancel the reload at any given time

 

*looks at blunderbuss as I'm about to melt it down* Sorry lil fellow. Wrong universe. Maybe the pimps will listen and change you one day.

[ArcticPrism]

Like others have said, only if I haven't found Iron armor yet. It suffers from the way the game's "progression" system works. All the recipes you find are completely random and none of the armors give unique bonuses. It's not even useful as a cheap alternative because it requires duct tape.

 

I buffed the blunderbuss in my game to make it useful. I made it more accurate, though still less accurate than shotguns. The accuracy was probably the biggest problem with it. Even if a zombie was right in your face you could still miss because of the insane spread. I also gave it a small damage boost because of the long reload time.

[LuckyStar]

I think I might try Modding out the recipes for anything under iron armour.

I don't see the point of it all.

 

Just need to think of something else to find in those bookcases.

 

Maybe pieces of a map? Hmm....

Yeah! Get 10 pieces and you can craft a treasure map.

 

Hehe.... think I'm going to do that.

[Euzio]

Regarding the blunderbuss

 

Just to double down on this to go with other FPS games here. You know that new Fallout title that is about to roll out in a week?

Guess what - they have a blackpowder shotgun in it.

With an 8 second reload timer, medium range, poor accuracy

buuuut

it absolutely brutalizes everything with that single shot.

 

and you can cancel the reload at any given time

 

*looks at blunderbuss as I'm about to melt it down* Sorry lil fellow. Wrong universe. Maybe the pimps will listen and change you one day.

 

If they make it similar it would definitely be alot more useful. The way I see the blunderbuss is that its actually a mini-hand cannon. Short-range, long reload, but packs a huge wallop in close quarters. Maybe I should try modding it to see if I can achieve something akin to that. It will brutalize anything, even if its a body shot, at point blank. And can be used to breach doors too.

[Dimpy]

I've said this before, but I think the blunderbuss would feel a lot cooler and more last-ditch powery if it had the power to break the user's arm if handled incorrectly. Maybe a perception or strength check?

[ArcticPrism]

I think I might try Modding out the recipes for anything under iron armour.

I don't see the point of it all.

 

Just need to think of something else to find in those bookcases.

 

Maybe pieces of a map? Hmm....

Yeah! Get 10 pieces and you can craft a treasure map.

 

Hehe.... think I'm going to do that.

 

Maybe in Alpha 17 when they have light and heavy armors others will be worth it. I have my doubts though. It'll probably end up like Leather being the only useful craftable light armor and Iron being the only useful craftable Heavy Armor.