Lets help TFP improve PvP

[Viktoriusiii]

Hi Viktor,

 

From my many hours playing I can confidently state that whether a server is modded or not has never been mentioned to me in whether a server is something people will play on or not, just my 2cp and I know every one of the owners/admins of the large english speaking servers, either way its a moot point.

Well after A17 starts, look in the serverlists and see where more players play pvp and you will see what i mean.

 

I absolutely have not asked for my, or anyone elses preferred options to be favoured as you put it, i asked for the opposite of that, I want all people to be catered to by being able to select your own options or join one of the many servers that caters to options you like.

I dont think my preferences should have more weight than anyone else, neither should you my friend.

Yea... but currently it is by making "your" settings (aka offlineraids) the standart way to set up a server and every change to it going in the modded server list. If you want that to be removed, we are on the same side But trust me that, for most people, playing "unmodded" is actually quite a big factor.

[bloom_meister]

Yea... but currently it is by making "your" settings (aka offlineraids) the standart way to set up a server and every change to it going in the modded server list. If you want that to be removed, we are on the same side But trust me that, for most people, playing "unmodded" is actually quite a big factor.

 

My opinion on people caring modded v not modded is different than yours and since thats a matter of opinion and this is about suggstions then we can leave it there amicably, on whats the default i dont care.

[eidobunny]

Or we could just make the devs not send that particular option to modded

 

I agree with Vik that being in modded is usually a problem for the long-term health of a server. Most people just load up the vanilla list and join one of the first servers they see, so vanilla servers always have more new player traffic. PvP servers benefit from a high turnover rate that constantly brings in an influx of new players. That said, there's nothing stopping a modded PvP server from succeeding, it's just less likely to be able to survive a sudden exodus.

[4sheetzngeegles]

I have a serious question. It was asked prior and only partially answered. What are your long term goals? Do any of the people that favor PVP know and or like to mod? The reason the questions are valid is because, at the end of the production cycle, unless another company takes up the mantle of TFP there may be no other game platform like this. Eido its like you wrote in our discussion, its better to prep for it now.

[SylenThunder]

After reviewing what madmole actually said, and comparing it to what bloom_meister posted in the first post of this thread, I felt a real disconnect between reality, and what was implied.

 

As such, I copied madmole's most recent post over to this thread, and placed the entire discussion with him regarding this into the first post.

 

Please take a moment to go back and read what he actually stated. It's a bit different from what bloom implied in his original opening post.

Not knocking on you bloom, but if we're going to have the discussion, it's got to have an honest start.

[Cadamier]

Extreme Heavy Snip:

 

"Quote Originally Posted by madmole View Post

...the pvp player base is less than 1% of our customer base. Maybe its 40% of the vocal minority community, but its literally nothing, all our players are friends playing coop with friends or single player on private servers."

 

I have a group of 9 of us, sometimes 12... I run our Private dedi. Sometimes a few will group together and play 'locally' but 99.99999999% of the time we are PVE. Only one in our group has mentioned PVP, maybe a few times; and he got shot down quickly... During our time with 7D2D we've exclusively PVE'd.

 

Also - I seem to remember that PVP wasn't an intended part of this game? I could be wrong but that's what stuck in my head.

 

Look at the server lists, I occasionally do and I see a lot of servers running both ways... But more often than not I see more actual 'groups' on PVE's than I do on PVP's. Maybe it's during the 'lul' when there aren't any PVP'er's on when I'm looking, maybe not. Generally I see 3 to 5 or so PVE'ers on any given server. Maybe 3 times or so I've seen about that many on a PVP server. Thought about joining but the others in the group wanted to play 7D2D or something else.

[Dimpy]

*snip*

The worst part about PvP right now is dying without a chance to react. The dynamic of getting ambushed and having the opportunity to react and potentially turn the table (or potentially die) is the most interesting PvP dynamic in any competitive game.

*snip*

If a level 1 that just logged in can make a bow and one-shot a level 200 dude in full purple and loot possibly several IRL days worth of stuff off his body, that's just about the most infuriating and awful design decision I can possibly think of.

 

I have to disagree. Low DPS is good for PVE fighting games, because it means long, close-range, epic battles, and guaranteeing the player's character and skill are put to the test. This, however, is a stealth horror game. This game is brutal. It's up to the player to be aware of their surroundings, and to take necessarily precautions, even if it means clinical paranoia. If a noob can instantly die from a landmine that they never saw, I think it's pretty fair that an experienced player can instantly die from a noob they never saw as well.

 

 

It falls apart really quickly too because higher level players can just use rapid-fire SMGs and AK-47s so they have the power to essentially just spray and pray insta-gib anyone else

 

 

I've found that as DPS in FPS games increases, cover starts to play increasingly important roles. It doesn't matter(as much) how fast the bullets fly, they won't do any damage if you're behind a half-meter of solid concrete. I personally LOVE tactical shooters that use cover and camo. I guess it's a matter of personal taste, but partly because of the cover aspect, I'm all for the "insta-gibs".

[bloom_meister]

After reviewing what madmole actually said, and comparing it to what bloom_meister posted in the first post of this thread, I felt a real disconnect between reality, and what was implied.

 

As such, I copied madmole's most recent post over to this thread, and placed the entire discussion with him regarding this into the first post.

 

Please take a moment to go back and read what he actually stated. It's a bit different from what bloom implied in his original opening post.

Not knocking on you bloom, but if we're going to have the discussion, it's got to have an honest start.

 

Going to have to disagree with you there Sylen, I deliberately pointed out the 2 main points from MM which were that making changes to PVP is not a priority right now BUT that he would like to make it awesome, i bolded, italicised and i think underlined the ''not a priority right now'' bit to be clear that MM was not promising any immediate or coming soon changes and read it back carefully a couple of times to ensure I was quoting him both in spirit and context.

 

Don't get me wrong, no issue with quoting me or MM but there was some back and forth in that thread that I dont see as useful in helping a constructive discussion in this one.

[Poojam]

1. Sound radii needs to be selectively increased based on the source type to encourage discovery of other players. Weapons, bikes, power tools, forges should be 2+ km imo. When the sound got nerfed a few alphas ago, it got a whole lot more lonely in the world. I can recall seeing players breaking into a prefab just a couple blocks away, yet you couldn't hear them actually make any sound. This led to making it incredibly hard to find people, and fostered a complacency by players. You used to have to make a conscientious decision on whether or not you wanted to risk running that forge or auger, because there was a lot of potential players online to hear you. I could see this as a net positive in terms of enrichment and difficulty to PVE as well if zombies heard you from further distances depending on the type of source.

 

2. Develop more reasons to interact with players. I know NPC's are coming which is one method, but I have seen other implementations via mods that have worked well to stimulate interaction. One method was a server wide message that announced a bandit gang had been sighted at a certain set of coordinates (or special resource discovery was made and spawn in a dungeon prefab - copy off the coding for treasure maps/airdrops). Another method was a ticket reward system that you would cash in at one designated prefab that contained a set of locked vaults in the hub city.

 

3. Was mentioned earlier, but I really like the idea of additional trap blocks that are completely disguised. A pressure plate, door, or chest that explodes when you open it. This would enrich the raiding experience and be another excellent passive defense mechanism without much effort. Only the owner would really know that the chest in the first row and 3rd one from the left would detonate killing the raider. It would need to consume the device and make them sort of expensive so they don't get spammed in PVE as a base defense item.

 

4. Create a parameter for each equipment entity to trigger a buff notification when it is running for smell. This notion already exists with light and heat, but I'm thinking specifically in terms of smell and significantly increased distances. This would help with the discovery of underground bases, and specifically when players tend to be online since the equipment would be running. Say, for example, when a campfire is running and someone gets within 100m of it you would notice the smell (just as you would in real life). Or the same could go for forges or chemistry stations but be increased in radii a bit.

 

5. Forges and campfires could create a significantly larger smoke column. Don't make it dense and annoying that clouds up your base, but darken and increase the visible height. This adds to the element of potential discovery and excitement.

 

6. I think it's time to create a set of server support plugins that increase the ability of admins to police their servers from hackers and repair them. You can't fix the game against hackers completely, but you can make it so admins can enforce their rules and ferret out the abusers. Specifically, I think admins need a plugin that allows for defining rulesets and autokicking or banning for certain conditions. For example, if a player has two identical quality weapons it would trigger an alert to the admin. Or when a player has a threshold amount of a certain resource in their inventory it could trigger an alert or ban depending on the argument that the admin has created in an xml (if playerinventory has > 5000 7.62 ammo, notify admin) (if playerinventory has > 5000 TNT then ban).

 

A plugin that can log everything a player adds or subtracts from their inventory, specifically noting the item id, quality, and quantity. This would enable auditing and identification of duping/spawning of resources. I've seen this on a couple server mods, and they successfully supports 30-40 players - so it can be done.

 

A plugin that autosaves a complete backup of the server at a specified schedule and file location.

 

A plugin that is more user-friendly (I'm thinking map overlay/gui) for monitoring server cpu usage by chunk as well as enable restoration of chunks from a specified backup file. This would enable admins to identify a player or entity that is bugged and dragging down the server and a rapid means to fix it.

 

7. Map area designation that can impact the strength of the land claim protection. Typically we have seen this on modded servers where the hub city is set to a very high land claim (not infinite) protection in order to help support new players get established.

 

8. Create a dynamic parameter that increases the spawn rate of zombies, type, or their strength/resistance AND their loot tables the further away from 0,0 you get. This adds a cool dynamic of increasing risk/reward to the world, where the proximity to the radiation zone influences their difficulty and boosts reward. This has a tendency to pull more established players further away from 0,0 to seek the more in-demand resources while simultaneously encouraging the safety of new players in getting established. The default value could be 1.0, which is a flat dynamic and thus no change. Allow it to ramp up to 10...err 11.

 

9. Give bandits and normal zombies tools, voices, and/or weapons to use against you. This is less to do with PVP, and more with just killing. It's really refreshing to have zombies throw rocks at you, shout obscenities, or shoot at you and adds a lot of challenge to the PVE experience. With regards to PVP, it allows for zombies to create loid noises that the player can't control. This element creates another mechanism to find people and incentive to be stealthy if you don't want to be found.

 

10. Spend some resources to improve the coding to minimize jitteryness, improve accuracy, and smooth out player model motion.

 

11. Reduce the magnitude of damage and resistance scaling buried within the perk system. I don't know how this has changed yet, but in prior implementations some perks/skills would give you an effective force multiplier against new players that was just way too high.

 

12. Encourage specialization and cooperation of players by eliminating some of the artificial constraints that have been added. Teamwork should reward players by allowing for faster progression. Specifically, I would eliminate or completely rework level gates for crafting skills. Before this was implemented you could successfully be a scavenger early game, weaponsmith, tool maker, or harvester. I know my little group of friends would start fresh on a server and take on roles to more rapidly build up our collective resources which fostered competition because it gave you an edge over solo players/teams that wouldn't specialize. It was also rewarding for two reasons, which was because some people enjoyed certain roles more than others. They got to do what they wanted and their hard work would produce greater satisfaction because it gave the group an advantage, as well as creating interdependency that kept us playing way too late at night! For example, one guy would get to mining, one would go out scavenging to get tools/weapons/parts, one would start building a base to secure our resources. Each guy would tend to specialize in tools or weapons or armor. With the current level gate system, it became almost useless for certain specializations and our incentive to cooperate was pretty much eliminated. If you were so hampered by your player level that you couldn't make more than 250 quality tools, then there wasn't much point to specialize. By the time you could make 300 quality tools, most everyone else was caught up with you or within a rank or two.

 

12B. Eliminate scavenging skills that change the quality of loot in containers, or significantly nerf the magnitude of the variability. This one drives me crazy because it severely gimped perhaps one of my favorite playstyles that also tends to be more favorable for a pvp-minded player. Before this was implemented you could successfully be a scavenger early game. Now with the extreme rarity of quality guns/tools, you are basically forced into farming levels or resources for the first 20 hours of irl gameplay until you can get a gun or tool that is decent enough to be able to effectively use it against another player or base. It also creates this perverted incentive to have a designated looter in the group, which is whoever has the most levels.

[Poojam]

13. Add items to create a more effective security system for monitoring player movements. This would include a datalogger attached to a camera triggered by tripwires or motion detectors that you can place in/around your base or hide in stores to record another player passing by that is timestamped. This information would be valuable on multiplayer servers for offensive and defensive purposes.

 

14. Rare and Legendary items.

 

15. Found notes or quest lines that have you raid a specific rare prefab or spawned dungeon that could be designed to educate players on raiding, pvp, and/or defense tactics. A common complaint in PVP is that new players aren't really aware of what they're up against. Use these types of things to get them thinking along the lines that there other threats to your survival in the world besides zombies.

 

16. Partially adjustable land claim borders during placement. The land claim block would not necessarily need to be in the center of the square. This could greatly increase the challenge in raiding a base by making it harder to pointpoint claims. Say, allow for a shift during placement of the block of radius/5 or something or just a fixed 4 block offset. That way it's not impossible, but if you went through the effort you could hide the land claim in geometrically convenient walls/more obscure areas while maintaining a uniform border on your base. It would also allow for greater flexibility in base designs where protetion relies on fall hazards/open gaps.

 

17. Animal taming. Beatkidz had it on his server (iirc). Very cool. They can be set to passive, or attack zombies or other players for you. Would be really really cool if your big black wolf could smell that a player had been through the area recently, or ferret out prey animals.

[eidobunny]

I have to disagree. Low DPS is good for PVE fighting games, because it means long, close-range, epic battles, and guaranteeing the player's character and skill are put to the test. This, however, is a stealth horror game. This game is brutal. It's up to the player to be aware of their surroundings, and to take necessarily precautions, even if it means clinical paranoia. If a noob can instantly die from a landmine that they never saw, I think it's pretty fair that an experienced player can instantly die from a noob they never saw as well.

 

 

 

I've found that as DPS in FPS games increases, cover starts to play increasingly important roles. It doesn't matter(as much) how fast the bullets fly, they won't do any damage if you're behind a half-meter of solid concrete. I personally LOVE tactical shooters that use cover and camo. I guess it's a matter of personal taste, but partly because of the cover aspect, I'm all for the "insta-gibs".

 

I agree that stepping carelessly on a landmine should probably result in an instant death, but the cheaper landmines might be so poorly put together that they wouldn't actually kill a person so I'll give the developers that.

 

Though I don't think getting one-shot while looting is necessarily an indication of carelessness. Like Poojam said, players have become increasingly complacent because the sound radii was nerfed so hard. Given that, not many people pay attention to their surroundings anymore. Regardless, I play PUBG so I'm going to compare some simple numbers to that. In PUBG, you can take 2-3 shots even without armor. As you get better and better armor, sometimes you take take 4, 5, or even more shots if the shooter's caliber is low. It gives you enough time to react, get cover, and launch a counter-attack. Maybe you still lose but at least you get a chance to fight back. The only exception is in close-quarters battles where you might be out of luck due to the development speed of the encounter. The maximum punishment for dying in PUBG is just 30 minutes of looting and killing.

 

The maximum punishment for losing a fight in 7 Days is potentially dozens of hours of work. Literally a 10-20x harsher punishment (if not more), so relatively speaking, I would say at the bare minimum it should take at least as many shots to kill a player in 7 Days as it does in PUBG, if not twice as many. In PUBG a level 3 helmet can take a shot from almost every sniper rifle, and level 3 armor can withstand 3-4 bullets from the strongest assault rifles or a single shotgun slug at point blank range. You should be able to take at least that many shots if you have perfect armor in 7 Days. Basically we need a better balance between the time it takes to ambush someone, for them to react, the fight to take place and the fight to end, and how much you stand to lose by losing the fight. So either you lose less (for example, drop toolbelt but not inventory), or the fights take longer. I prefer a total loss of all items on death, so my vote is to increase the average length of a PvP battle by reducing gun damage significantly.

[Sinz]

Wow guys. Lots here to catch up on.

I agree with lots a disagree with some.

I think I'll just re-post the points that I agree with, that should be clearest.

 

*snip*

I think that there aren't enough good single player games and even less good multiplayer pve coop games. You can get pvp anywhere, fortnite rust, ark etc. Our game is in its own space because its the only game like it. If we were just a pvp game we'd be a worse version of something else. Why be number 349 when you can be number 1?

 

I agree Joel, your game is one of a kind, but no one asked for it to be "just" a pvp game.

In correspondence with what others have said, I think PvP can be implemented in a game that enriches the game with no negative effects to pve what so ever. I think nearly all PvP content, additions and changes, if balanced correctly, can enhance PvE too.

 

I've made lots of suggestions in pimp dreams that would enrich PvE AND PvP.

I don't know why another thread is being made on this topic when other perfectly good threads already exist?

 

I'm going to hide my wall of text here:

 

 

I could go on for ages listing completely new content that would make PvP and PvE more interesting but I'll try not get carried away.

 

In regards to modded server vs vanilla server (because it favorable PvP settings flag servers as modded and modded gets less traffic):

I've suggested this before and I'll suggest it again. Remove the modded tab. Easy fix. The reason vanilla gets more traffic is because it's the first thing people see. Just make the first tab have modded and vanilla servers alike and add an additional column to show modded vs vanilla. Most modded servers describe their mods in title and description too.

 

In regards to traders (because they were discussed above):

I think traders in A16 are far to easy to exploit. Money is too easy to earn and trader stock is too cheap. And as mentioned above, traders commonly stock rare items. We don't know what they're like in A17 yet but they're too exploitable for PvP and PvE in A16.

 

In regards to weapon damage to players:

It seems people agree that this one is probably the biggest factor that will make or break PvP and will require a lot of balancing.

But people seem to be split on opinions. Some in favor of simulation and survival, ie one shot kills. Others in favor of responsive combat, no one shot kills.

Both options work, there are many successful examples of this.

I say make it a game setting. Kinda like the difficulty for zombies. Difficulty for PvP. That way people can play how they want.

I prefer to be able to respond to being shot at, not die from one shot. Just my preference.

That being said, I still think weapon damage and armor vs bullets and explosives still need balancing to suit PvP without changing PvE negatively.

 

PvP features, content, ideas, changes, suggestions etc:

1. Distant and directional sounds for loud noises, guns, explosives, engines etc.
   
2. Fix the duping and cheating
   
3. Fix the bug that you can see though terrain
   
4. Increased view distance setting cap
   
5. Fix the bug for invisible players
   
6. Fix the mining helmet that appears to be on for one client while it appears to off for another client
   
7. Player kill XP
   
8. Directional hit markers (because if you get shot you know what side it hit you on)
   
9. Log out timer that is interrupted by damage (this setting will stop combat loggers in PvP and PvE)
   
10. Game setting to lock gamma to default for all clients (this setting can be turned off for PvE)
    
11. FPS rig needs to not shake and have smoother turning/movement
    
12. Long range floating names when in cross hairs (identify players)
    
13. Game option to set traders as neutral zones where PvP damage is disabled
    
14. More admin unities for multiplayer server management and policing
    
15. Admin command to disable PvP damage in specific defined areas (for making neutral zones)
    
16. Admin command to claim area with specific protection settings that aren't bound to any specific player (for making neutral zones)
    
17. Prone stance (marksman accuracy should be effected by stances, especially with rifles)
    
18. A button to drop your "player dropped bag" (used to escape a fight by forfeiting loot or used to hide loot before being killed)
    
19. Player bounties (can be set by other players with money at trader or tied into a reputation system with traders and other NPCs)
    
20. Player to player trading user interface
    
21. Remote detonated explosives (C4)
    

 

 

 

More in my next comment... more than 10000 characters lol

[Sinz]

One of my previous "pimp dreams" is perfectly suited for this thread.

 

I talked about the thinks in this quote as if PvP was going to be made as a separate game mode because Madmole said that previously in other threads but I think everything I talked about in the quote can be implemented into the current version but the "PvP Idea" would need to be a game option which would only be enabled in PvP servers.

 

Please read.

 

Another dream I have for the game is focused on multiplayer play. An extensions to the land claim system and friends system.

 

The Faction Update

 

 

I think that the way I imagine a faction system would greatly improve 7 Days to Die as it is, but would also be crucial for any alternate PVP game modes.

I think sharing and land claims can be improved via a faction system detailed as follows.

I think any implementation of a faction system would need it's own tab in the user interface. I'll start with a picture of how I imagine the faction UI to look to help explaining how I imagine the faction system.

This clearly needs further work so please suggest any changes and additions.

I imagine players can make and name their own faction.

I imagine factions can have a 3 digit tag which will be visible next to player names in chat and on floating player names.

I imagine the "invite to faction" button will be in the player list UI next to the send friend request button.

I imagine players will be able to make and name their own ranks within their faction and assign members to those ranks.

I imagine that factions ranks can be assigned specific permissions relating to land claim/protection and faction management.

I imagine that land claim blocks will be changed so that they can be picked up and only defined faction ranks can do so.

Currently structures like crafting stations or electrical appliances can only be picked up by the player who placed them only if that player has a land claim block in range of those structures. I think that this should be changed over to the faction system so that anyone with permission can pick up these structures.

Currently land claim blocks provide reduction of explosive damage to blocks within the zone. I think this should be configurable so that claim owners and faction members can use explosives to mine or for demolitions within their own claim without removing claim and lowering their defenses.

I think lockable doors and containers should have an additional security option added for faction members. The options would be: Unlocked, Faction Locked and Locked. Where Faction Locked would still be locked to strangers but would be unlocked to faction members, no lock code required AND no need to copy paste 100 lock codes into every damn lock! (Also, this way lock codes can't be leaked)

I think the other permissions for factions ranks shown in the demonstration picture are self explanatory.

In the demonstration picture I have a list of factions and details labeled as "Faction Politics". Most of this, I think, is self explanatory. But I think war status should be automatically change to "at war" when one faction destroys another factions claimed blocks. "Declare war" is a button that can be clicked to send a notification with a sound to the rival faction. And I think if two factions are at war with one another, one faction must click request truce and the other must click accept truce for the status to change.

I think factions should be able to configure specific permission for their allied factions. And in my demonstration UI picture I've added a section where you can see the permissions the other faction has allowed you. And I think a faction should be able to click on a denied permission with an allied faction to send a request notification to that faction for that permission.

I also think that players who are in a faction should be able to place a land claim block outside of the claim zone clearance of the factions claim and then hold E on that LCB and toggle it between faction claim and private claim. Thus if they were kicked from the faction they would still maintain ownership of any claims they'd set to "private" and they could then change those to a new faction. But this should only be possible to the placer of the LCB so that claim can't be stolen. If a player who placed claims for the faction is kicked from the faction those claims are forfeit.

 

I think with all these additions a log would be necessary.

I think the log should record:

Faction invitations

Faction joins

Faction kicks

Alliance requests

War declarations

Truce requests

Changes to member ranks

Changes to rank permissions

Changes to ally permissions

Changes to factions permissions with allies

Requests for permissions from allies

Placement of land claim blocks

Pickup of land claim blocks

Destruction of doors, containers, electrical appliances and workstations (inside job)

 

A system like this has potential for a lot more than what I've talked about here. For example a reputation system. But I think I'll keep this pimp dream small, it's a good start and would serve as a good extension to land claim and protection

 

I've got idea related to factions that I'm on the fence about.

Land claim could be made indestructible to players until both factions agree to "go to war".

I think a function like this would need to be a toggle configuration since some PVPers are for and some are against consented battle.

But a feature like this would encourage more player vs player. Player vs offline base isn't what PVP is about anyway.

 

 

PVP Idea

 

 

An idea for PVP that would tie in with the above proposed faction system. This idea is focused on an alternate game mode for PVP and wouldn't have a place in a PVE server.

A "Save Claimed Base" and "Restore Base" button.

Might sound weird but let me explain.

All blocks within the claimed area can be backed up and restored in real time without server restart (like coppi mod).

Raiders come along and destroy everything needed to break in, destroy the beds and win the siege. They get the loot. They leave.

The victim restores their base from the saved backup. BUT!

The restored base doesn't restore what was in the containers.

The "restore base" function would need restriction based on enemy proximity and a cooldown timer after enemies leave proximity. This would prevent it being used to prevent return loot trips or as an active defense against a raid.

 

I think this could have potential because it would encourage prolonged PVP. So often I've seen people get raided and flat out quit. PVP is player vs player, it's about the battle, not the griefing and not destroying competition. With a feature like this players can get back on their feet faster after being raided and the action can begin again sooner without having to start from scratch. Players would be more likely to make adjustments to their build based on each defeat and learn how to combat player raids faster with a feature like this.

 

Anyway guys, that's more than enough for one post. Thanks for reading.

Please give me feedback and let me know your thoughts, whether your thoughts might be changes to my ideas, agreement, disagreement or ideas of your own. I appreciate brainstorming.

[bloom_meister]

Some interesting ideas Sinz, going to quote one particular bit that I disagree strongly with though:

 

''I think this could have potential because it would encourage prolonged PVP. So often I've seen people get raided and flat out quit. PVP is player vs player, it's about the battle, not the griefing and not destroying competition. With a feature like this players can get back on their feet faster after being raided and the action can begin again sooner without having to start from scratch. Players would be more likely to make adjustments to their build based on each defeat and learn how to combat player raids faster with a feature like this.''

 

People play pvp for a variety of reasons, i know pve players who play pvp just for the added threat even though they dont go looking for pvp and actively avoid it, there are loads of reasons for people to play pvp but one big one is definately to raid and steal someone elses stuff. I get that you dont like that aspect and you're correct that some people cant take it but there are servers out there with settings to suit them (invul claims is the main one). Its good to see the different opinions but lets not fall into the trap of 'this is what everyone thinks because i think it' which I am guilty of myself sometimes.

 

Base raiding, griefing and even in some rare cases making people quit are all parts of the pvp game, I know teams that have a grudge with another team and have killed and raided them specifically to get them off the server, I also know plenty of cases where multiple people have teamed up to kill and raid a team of griefers to remove THEM from the server in revenge! karma at work

 

Different reasons for different people is all I am saying.

[caatalyst]

Some things I suggested for PVP a while back in the suggestions forum...

 

 

With the current raiding system the game forces you to use primarily augers to break into another players base. The problem with this is that the LCB introduces potentially massive amounts of defence to the player bases. A well designed base can take hours to raid. So far I've spent 8 hours in alpha 16 raiding a single base. This is just silly and boring as hell to sit in front of concrete / steel blocks for hours simply holding your left mouse button. Why not reduce the damage multiplier you say? Because the argument on the other side is that we have to give the base owner a chance which i totally agree on.

 

Why not introduce additional methods for raiding?

 

Explosive charges

 

What about if we had explosive charges that we place and detonate? They could deal huge amounts of block damage to player made blocks. They could be craftable and locked behind perks and cost a lot of resources to build. Maybe 10-30 minutes in the work bench. Maybe some of the items needed are rare and loot only. We could have tiered charges - wood, metal and concrete / steel charges.

 

Raiding rocket ammunition

 

Name says it all - rockets that deal a lot of block damage to player made blocks. They could also take ages to craft and maybe are super rare and expensive at traders behind secret stash 3.

 

Locking Picking

 

Very rare item that spawns in the world and can be used to break the lock on a single door.

 

Thermal Scanner

 

Use the thermal scanner on a door / container that was accessed in the last 5 minutes to get the code. Limited uses before consumed.

[caatalyst]

Some interesting ideas Sinz, going to quote one particular bit that I disagree strongly with though:

 

''I think this could have potential because it would encourage prolonged PVP. So often I've seen people get raided and flat out quit. PVP is player vs player, it's about the battle, not the griefing and not destroying competition. With a feature like this players can get back on their feet faster after being raided and the action can begin again sooner without having to start from scratch. Players would be more likely to make adjustments to their build based on each defeat and learn how to combat player raids faster with a feature like this.''

 

People play pvp for a variety of reasons, i know pve players who play pvp just for the added threat even though they dont go looking for pvp and actively avoid it, there are loads of reasons for people to play pvp but one big one is definately to raid and steal someone elses stuff. I get that you dont like that aspect and you're correct that some people cant take it but there are servers out there with settings to suit them (invul claims is the main one). Its good to see the different opinions but lets not fall into the trap of 'this is what everyone thinks because i think it' which I am guilty of myself sometimes.

 

Base raiding, griefing and even in some rare cases making people quit are all parts of the pvp game, I know teams that have a grudge with another team and have killed and raided them specifically to get them off the server, I also know plenty of cases where multiple people have teamed up to kill and raid a team of griefers to remove THEM from the server in revenge! karma at work

 

Different reasons for different people is all I am saying.

 

Raiding is a fundamental part of PVP in open world survival base building games. To put artificial systems in to gate it just takes out the fun. You just got to suck it up and rebuild. :-)

[eidobunny]

Locking Picking

 

Very rare item that spawns in the world and can be used to break the lock on a single door.

 

fwiw it doesn't make any sense that you'd both successfully pick the lock AND break your pick. If your pick breaks, you're not going to pick the lock. So only in the event of an unsuccessful pick attempt would you ever "consume" a pick.

[caatalyst]

fwiw it doesn't make any sense that you'd both successfully pick the lock AND break your pick. If your pick breaks, you're not going to pick the lock. So only in the event of an unsuccessful pick attempt would you ever "consume" a

 

It’s a game and there has to be balance. There’s far more unbelievable things in the game already like placing wood frames and jumping to place more until you’re as high as a sky scraper lol.

[Guppycur]

Dead is Dead (lose your claim, map, all stats, chest/door access) would be an improvement too...

 

...it would make griefers hesitate before random murder, could foster teamwork to bring down a tyrant, and would regularly level the playing field.

[eidobunny]

It’s a game and there has to be balance. There’s far more unbelievable things in the game already like placing wood frames and jumping to place more until you’re as high as a sky scraper lol.

 

I'd much rather have a simple compromise, twice as many picks in the world but a 50% chance they break and you don't pick the lock.

[FirefightGI]

Anyone else remember the deathmatch mode in alpha 4..or 6, with the airdrops and sewer lines; that was fun bring that back.

[Sy Tarn]

Okay, so after reading the few pages on this thread i have come to the conclusion that most everyone is over complicating this.

 

THB everyone knows that PVP needs some love, however most of the things i've seen mentioned wouldn't really help and not mess with PVE or the rest of the game at all. so. i've had a standpoint about this. fixing things that make the game work better and inadvertently fix pvp in the process.

 

sound does need to be fixed. as in. lessened and made more realistic. you shouldn't be able to hear forges 100 feet in the ground. and no you should not be able to hear a gun from across the map. and of course in a dense forest you can't really tell which direction its coming from etc.

and noises should be "dampened" the more physical objects are between you and the thing making noise. people who suggest it should be increased are lazy gamers who want the easiest way to find people. that is not the way it should be played.

 

as for the rest bug fixes like the see through terrain obv need to be fixed. the other players on fire bug needs to be fixed (i took out a group of 5 people like 8 times each because they were all on fire 3/4 of the time and easy to spot.

 

claim block would help both PVP and PVE. now i know the wish list was to just be able to delete something but i think we should take a different route. the claim block should give a damage bonus to tools ON player made blocks as in as long as you are within your claim your tools will do massive amount of damage to player made blocks. this would not affect base raiding as only YOUR claim only gives YOU (and your friends) the bonus. that way we don't have to make it too specific. if you can build in that claim you get the bonus. so if your an enemy you don't.

 

we have given shot placement to zombies. shooting them in the chest does less damage then shooting their limbs off, and a headshot does ALOT more damage. this should be added to players as well. a chest shot from a weapon if you have armor prob won't kill you and body armor and head armor should be separate values. so a head shot is almost an instant kill but also hard to do. so that would make PVP combat a little more interesting. also this way weapons don't have to be "balanced" their values will remain the same but the damage received by players could be changed depending on the changes to armor and not being a head shot etc.

 

tbh not much else needs to be changed or added to make PVP better or awesome. the biggest problems in pvp for me was the exploits (seeing through terrain) and bugs that just didn't help. everything else about the game was great because honestly you may not want to call it a PVP game Madmole but there's really nothing about the game holding it back or really deterring PVP from being done pvp in the game was pretty good as is except for a few things. i mean you could think about people or groups joining factions as NPC's get into the game and as pvp ensues and you kill players or npc's belonging to factions the NPC factions will place bounties on players but thats the only addition i can think of.

 

and for the love of god will you people stop bringing up an "end game" to pvp or a goal. i mean seriously this is an apocalypse ffs no ones keeping score and the apocalypse doesn't end because you "killed the most people" its about how long YOU CAN SURVIVE. and that btw is the crap MM is talking about PVP should be just that PVP not PVP until someone reaches a goal. you just keep going until everyone gets bored and you either move on to another server or get the admin to wipe. and i can tell you right now THAT end game to pvp will never happen.

 

so there you have it simple yet elegant, not too many changes and its wayyyyy more doable then what you folks were suggesting.

 

and before anyone gets snarky i currently have 1500+ hours put into this game second only to EVE online with 2k+ hours (which i stopped playing because as it may not be dead its not going anywhere either.) and these suggestions are something me and my group have thought of putting into account what the countless numbers of players who have played on our servers when we had one. and just these few things i've mentioned in this post alone would make PVP awesome. so lets stay away from what other games have and stick to what THIS game actually NEEDS.

[Sy Tarn]

continued.....

 

anyways there are alot of things that would make the game better, but since they aren't considered PVP specific i did not mention them. however i will state the only thing i am rooting for is animal taming, being able to build a ranch and own cats and dogs for your base.

 

so ya @madmole these suggestions alone would make pvp better anything else would just be icing on the cake

 

that is all.

[Dimpy]

I agree that stepping carelessly on a landmine should probably result in an instant death, but the cheaper landmines might be so poorly put together that they wouldn't actually kill a person so I'll give the developers that.

 

Though I don't think getting one-shot while looting is necessarily an indication of carelessness. Like Poojam said, players have become increasingly complacent because the sound radii was nerfed so hard. Given that, not many people pay attention to their surroundings anymore. Regardless, I play PUBG so I'm going to compare some simple numbers to that. In PUBG, you can take 2-3 shots even without armor. As you get better and better armor, sometimes you take take 4, 5, or even more shots if the shooter's caliber is low. It gives you enough time to react, get cover, and launch a counter-attack. Maybe you still lose but at least you get a chance to fight back. The only exception is in close-quarters battles where you might be out of luck due to the development speed of the encounter. The maximum punishment for dying in PUBG is just 30 minutes of looting and killing.

 

The maximum punishment for losing a fight in 7 Days is potentially dozens of hours of work. Literally a 10-20x harsher punishment (if not more), so relatively speaking, I would say at the bare minimum it should take at least as many shots to kill a player in 7 Days as it does in PUBG, if not twice as many. In PUBG a level 3 helmet can take a shot from almost every sniper rifle, and level 3 armor can withstand 3-4 bullets from the strongest assault rifles or a single shotgun slug at point blank range. You should be able to take at least that many shots if you have perfect armor in 7 Days. Basically we need a better balance between the time it takes to ambush someone, for them to react, the fight to take place and the fight to end, and how much you stand to lose by losing the fight. So either you lose less (for example, drop toolbelt but not inventory), or the fights take longer. I prefer a total loss of all items on death, so my vote is to increase the average length of a PvP battle by reducing gun damage significantly.

 

Your analogy is pretty thorough, but seems to be going off the assumption that battle time should be a function of the stakes of wining/losing. Can you explain why that is?

----------

You also seem to be going off the assumption that PUBG is a good game - TABG FTW

[Dimpy]

Some things I suggested for PVP a while back in the suggestions forum...

 

Explosive charges

 

What about if we had explosive charges that we place and detonate? They could deal huge amounts of block damage to player made blocks. They could be craftable and locked behind perks and cost a lot of resources to build. Maybe 10-30 minutes in the work bench. Maybe some of the items needed are rare and loot only. We could have tiered charges - wood, metal and concrete / steel charges.

 

This is already a thing in the game, and actually quite cheap. If you place wood frames or hay bales around all but one side of a piece of tnt, you can create shaped blasts that allow you to break open safes or vault doors much faster than an auger. I always bring a few pieces along with me when looting in case I see a gun safe. It shouldn't be that hard to mod the game so that explosions ignore LCBs.