Underground bases - what's the status of making them vulnerable to zombies?

[Roland]

I am still confused why this is an issue.

 

I, playing my single-player world...

 

While you are playing your single-player world I am also playing my own single-player world. Single player doesn't mean you are the sole player on Earth playing. There are more preferences than your own. Hence, the issue is that other people wanting to play their own single-player game and who wish to build underground but find it too boring because (as has already been established in this thread) it is a snoozefest aren't getting what they want so they post here to show support for what they want.

 

IF digging zombies are put in.. I WILL REMOVE THEM....

 

If you remove them in caps does it make them super gone....?

[Roland]

Change that to match the reward and the game will be much more balanced.

Your mole playstyle should not be removed, but if you want a complete safety, turn off zombies and play creative mode.

 

Madmole has said there will be safe places to build within settlements for those who want that experience. There will eventually be underground threats and no complete safety if you choose to build out in the wild but there will be an option for those whose preferences are to only experience zombie threats when they go out exploring and scavenging.

 

Personally, I think this is a much better solution than having a forcefield around the largest biome in the game. Join a settlement and get the safety you crave or be a lonewolf and carve out and maintain your survival for a challenge.

[Katitof]

Madmole has said there will be safe places to build within settlements for those who want that experience. There will eventually be underground threats and no complete safety if you choose to build out in the wild but there will be an option for those whose preferences are to only experience zombie threats when they go out exploring and scavenging.

 

Personally, I think this is a much better solution than having a forcefield around the largest biome in the game. Join a settlement and get the safety you crave or be a lonewolf and carve out and maintain your survival for a challenge.

 

That's pretty acceptable if you're only going to get a minor piece of land for the safety. But there still is a long way until then, given how the only NPCs are economy bandits erm, I mean traders.

[JCrook1028]

Madmole has said there will be safe places to build within settlements for those who want that experience. There will eventually be underground threats and no complete safety if you choose to build out in the wild but there will be an option for those whose preferences are to only experience zombie threats when they go out exploring and scavenging.

 

Personally, I think this is a much better solution than having a forcefield around the largest biome in the game. Join a settlement and get the safety you crave or be a lonewolf and carve out and maintain your survival for a challenge.

 

Didn't Madmole say that only in relation to an option to pay for a few nights now an then at a trader? As in, you will not be able to build a base in there. Correct?

[Jost Amman]

Didn't Madmole say that only in relation to an option to pay for a few nights now an then at a trader? As in, you will not be able to build a base in there. Correct?

Yeah, I too remember him saying that... but they may have evolved the idea into something more, hopefully. :-]

[KanedaSyndrome]

Perhaps overland should be made more difficult and it should be very hard to become self sustainable within a base. Also, add non-zombie threats.

[Wyrda78]

Anywhere being safe is quite a fundamental flaw for a survival game like this. If there is a trivially-easy way to have an impregnable base, such as by digging straight down or going straight up, then that cheapens the challenge of survival, which should be a long term challenge to overcome. Having an impregnable base should take a resources and design ingenuity.

 

Madmole has said there will be safe places to build within settlements for those who want that experience. There will eventually be underground threats and no complete safety if you choose to build out in the wild but there will be an option for those whose preferences are to only experience zombie threats when they go out exploring and scavenging.

 

Personally, I think this is a much better solution than having a forcefield around the largest biome in the game. Join a settlement and get the safety you crave or be a lonewolf and carve out and maintain your survival for a challenge.

 

I don't like the idea. If there are NPC settlements, firstly, I think it should be able to be enabled/disabled because some people prefer the last-man-alive sort of vibe. Secondly, NPC settlements should not be invulnerable but rather should have to use in-game mechanics, such as base defence, to defend themselves from zombies. Different factions should have different levels of vulnerabilities, and different levels if hostility to the player, a bit like in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. For example, there could be "survivor" settlements which were friendly to the player and could trade in low-level items, which didn't have great defences and were capable of being overrun. On the other hand, there could be military bases which were defended by high-level military equipment and contained high-level gear, but would shoot the player on sight, unless he somehow aligned himself with this faction by doing a quest or something similar.

 

But the main point is, there should be not force fields.

[Aldranon]

With the new zombie AI, every old design, above ground base will probably have problems. The question will be: How much maintenance and resources are you willing to invest on a weekly bases to keep it?

 

That said, USING the new AI is now possible and you can make a viable, sustainable above ground base!

 

Have three sides to your base be very strong and the forth side have a long hallway with barbed wire and recessed shotgun turrets every other block, above the hallway. So, shotgun shells and some gas will be your "cost" and that is very doable!

 

[KingSlayerGM]

Anywhere being safe is quite a fundamental flaw for a survival game like this.

 

My personal preference is that late in the game I can reach a status where the usual hordes and zombies are no longer a threat. At that point I would like to have other things to keep the game interesting, like quests, bosses to kill, npc to save and dungeons to clear (real hard dungeons, with real good loot, not the ones we currently have)

[Aldranon]

Well like in my theory of an A17 shotgun turret gauntlet: It would take about three Chem Stations to make about one stack of 250 shotgun shells a day (assuming you have the bones, lead, coal and nitrate for it)

 

In a 50 minute day One chem station can make:

-1000 gunpowder = 500 shotgun shells

-120 paper = 120 Shotgun shells.

So about every other day the first Chem Station makes paper too.

 

If you have the lead, making buckshot is not an issue (One long day digging boulders should be plenty for lead and the gunpowder components).

But, after day 100 and no deaths, 6-7 stacks might not be enough!

 

Also, if you're playing SP, you cant make a stack of shotgun shells a day! Two or three people can.

So a SP needs to work the traders for anything that can make more shells.

 

No rest for the wicked or the no deaths, high leveled 7D2D player.

[iejen]

or just leave us mole people alone <.<

 

#MolesUnite

[Blazer777]

#MolesUnite where's maha when we need him

[Kage848]

People hiding underground who get no xp or loot from zombie hordes is not much of a problem. The real problem is elevated bases with upside down log spike traps that are flush with the ground. These people farm xp and loot with zero risk. Another problem is the people who drink grain alcohol and run the whole night killing zombies with overpowered melee weapons with zero risk.

 

Both the elevated bases and an all night stamina and stun resist buff are far more over powered than some mole who gets nothing from hiding underground.

 

I forgot about the the battle platform cheese. Build a platform with a full block topped with a slab then make a three slab wide ledge that runs around the perimeter of the platform. Players can easily jump up on this platform but zombies just stand there and let you beat them over the head with overpowered melee weapons with zero risk.

 

Had to stop reading the thread to respond here. Some of this I agree with, some I don't and one point is simply wrong.

 

While I will agree upside down spikes look dumb and make zero sense they are not op in anyway. Tell ya what, when TFP fix the zombies so there heads stop no-clipping into a spike, making headshots impossible, people will stop using them. But even of they don't upside down spikes are just doing what they are supposed to, damaging zombies that walk on them.

 

As far as the battle platform base. I used this base for one horde so far and the zombie 100% did damage and even break some of my half blocks. I guess if you use plates maybe they can't but with half blocks they can.

 

As for the things I agree with you. Yes, stilt bases are way worse than Underground bases. Underground they get no xp, stilt bases do.

 

I also agree it's too easy to run around at night with total immunity to stun and bottomless stamina. But it's also very boring. Who wants to just run around zombies that can't catch up to you and kill them. No risk and very boring.

 

Tbh all these op strategies are really boring. Maybe that's the trade off?

 

You will never, ever defeat the playerbase. They will always find cheese. People need to just accept it and let it go.

[Kage848]

Madmole has said there will be safe places to build within settlements for those who want that experience. There will eventually be underground threats and no complete safety if you choose to build out in the wild but there will be an option for those whose preferences are to only experience zombie threats when they go out exploring and scavenging.

 

 

I'm sorry but isn't that just moving the safety area? Underground was safe but then you said you want to go underground but need threats to make it more fun.

 

What if I say I want to live in a settlement but I want threats in there to make it more fun for me. Seems like the same argument. As a matter of fact i'd argue a zombie horde decending on an npc settlement and you helping defend it in a massive battle sounds like way more fun than sitting underground and just defending yourself.

 

Just my 2c

[ColdSteelRain]

Core gameplay loop consists of building, scavenging, farming on scavenging and dealing with random roaming hordes by either avoiding them if "out there" or getting rid of it when in your base and fighting for most of the time and for self defense from homing horde every 7 days.

 

How would you name deliberate evading the part of the game that is literally in the title of it?

 

That means other elements of risk vs reward needs to be implemented.

Underground bases provide MASSIVE rewards and absolutely no risk.

 

Change that to match the reward and the game will be much more balanced.

Your mole playstyle should not be removed, but if you want a complete safety, turn off zombies and play creative mode.

 

I think you missed my point.

 

Underground bases aren't an exploit, and aren't any different than a stilt or mushroom base, or constantly running. They all use the game mechanics properly.

 

Everyone who plays is deliberately evading the title of the game. The name may be "7 days to die", but everyone is really trying pretty hard not to .

 

I agree that the game needs to be balanced a lot better for risk vs. reward. I don't think underground bases are the biggest balance issue, though. I'd rather TFP get the loot drops more in line with the level of the zombie; right now, there's really no reason to fight the tougher zombies when you are most likely to either get no loot or goldenrod seed.

[Roland]

I'm sorry but isn't that just moving the safety area? Underground was safe but then you said you want to go underground but need threats to make it more fun.

 

What if I say I want to live in a settlement but I want threats in there to make it more fun for me. Seems like the same argument. As a matter of fact i'd argue a zombie horde decending on an npc settlement and you helping defend it in a massive battle sounds like way more fun than sitting underground and just defending yourself.

 

Just my 2c

 

Yes but there is a difference between the snoozefest gameplay of a single POI vs an entire biome that makes up more than half the play space of the entire map. I would agree with you that having threats be an aspect of settlements WOULD be better and helping a settlement to defend from a horde attack would be much much better gameplay than simply paying the community leader rent to stay on a patch of land that keeps you 100% safe.

 

But given the chance of having a more interesting underworld at the cost of a more boring POI I would take that in a heartbeat even if I felt some disappointment that settlements could have been so much more. And if the devs are going to accomodate those who want a safe haven for their playstyle, I think it is a good compromise as it is much easier to just not pay the cost for safety in a settlement than it is just to not play underground.

[Roland]

I think you missed my point.

 

Underground bases aren't an exploit, and aren't any different than a stilt or mushroom base, or constantly running. They all use the game mechanics properly.

 

Everyone who plays is deliberately evading the title of the game. The name may be "7 days to die", but everyone is really trying pretty hard not to .

 

I agree that the game needs to be balanced a lot better for risk vs. reward. I don't think underground bases are the biggest balance issue, though. I'd rather TFP get the loot drops more in line with the level of the zombie; right now, there's really no reason to fight the tougher zombies when you are most likely to either get no loot or goldenrod seed.

 

Aside from balance there is fun. TFP isn't living up to their namesake regarding the underworld. Players may be trying to avoid the name of the game but the developers shouldn't be avoiding the middle name of their company, IMO.

[KingSlayerGM]

How to not let players build underground bases:

 

make stone 1000x times harder to mine

(also make it give 1000x resources so the above-ground gameplay remains the same)

[ecv]

I don't see the point of this entire argument. If I want to play safe, or pvp, or hardcore permadeath zombie fragfest, I pick a server that supports that. With settings, or a mod, or a bot. All the pimps need to do is to allow for these things and get the basics done well. Most of the long-running games are being kept alive by community contributions. At least it feels like that to me. I want 7dtd to be very long-running. I run a vanilla server with a bot for over a year now, it's more fun every wipe. I an enjoying the hell out of it, and what I fear most are artificial constraints. We are defining our own parameters and do's and dont's.I am toying with my own bot and am learning python in doing so, so we have something we can tailor to our specific needs. The pimps and modders, like alloc, make it supremely easy. That should be the core concern. More stuff in the game, all optional. Make it stable. Have a fun game for the next eight years. Just my 2c ;-)

[Katitof]

How to not let players build underground bases:

 

make stone 1000x times harder to mine

(also make it give 1000x resources so the above-ground gameplay remains the same)

 

I can not see how this could possibly break completely mining.

 

/sarcasm

[Roland]

How to not let players build underground bases:

 

make stone 1000x times harder to mine

(also make it give 1000x resources so the above-ground gameplay remains the same)

 

The goal is encourage more underground base building by making it challenging and interesting— not to prevent everyone from building there...

[zombie4hire]

I fully support more challenging and interesting underground base builds.

[Jost Amman]

Some time ago we discussed about settlements and factions and one of the things we talked about was more elaborate chain-quests. Believe it or not one of the ideas was a quest about helping a settlement to defend during a bloodmoon. :-]

 

As some have said underground bases should be made more challenging/fun to play, not removed.

Having the alternative to seek protection within some faction you become friend with?

Fits perfectly the theme and purpose of the game IMO.

 

However I can't stop thinking that it will all boil down to how good an AI the devs will be able to implement in the remaining time before release. If you think about it, adding settlements bustling with people living their lives will be a design and coding challenge for TFP since it will be necessary to make them look alive and realistic.

 

Defending during a BM with NPCs assigned to specific parts of the settlement, each of them reacting to the (possible) death of their friends or having panic attacks when/if the zombies break in, would be both great and very difficult to code...

 

Are we sure all this can be done before release with the time and resources available? :-|

[Fyrdrinc]

Back to what I've said from the start. I have no problem with underground having special building requirements. Occasional air shafts required for ventilation. Make fires and machinery generate smoke that can't be breathed, and only allow ventilation to remove it. Reduce the effectiveness of plant growth underground significantly. Maybe make them tend to collect water at low points and flood a bit during heavy rainstorms. More areas underground that lack support and a prone to sectional (versus single block wide) cave-ins. Probably should also require additional bracing for tunnels and rooms to restrain overhead weight against sections of the roof falling in - it's not a mistake that real-world mines tend to have lots of shoring beams and timbers. No made up special things, just practical real-world challenges that need to be overcome.

 

Also, make zombies tend to congregate at entry points like hatches and other clearly manmade spots. Make it dangerous to have just one entrance or exit. Make the player underground have to worry that if they just pop up from a hole, there will be something right there waiting for them.

[KingSlayerGM]

The goal is encourage more underground base building by making it challenging and interesting— not to prevent everyone from building there...

Well, this is actually a good view Underground monsters would be so cool! Like giant mutated moles!

Also fast digging zombies would be cool... as well as lava pockets