12 years and THIS is the big 1.0?

[Ncredible1201]

3 minutes ago, Riamus said:

They will never please everyone and stop there is no reason to try.  They will make the game how they want it and we, as players, have no "right" to have the game made the way we want.  We can make suggestions.  We can complain.  We can offer feedback.  But I'm the end, they will choose what works best from their end.  Developers don't ever have to listen to their players.  Many do, but usually only in very limited ways.  But they don't have to and they don't need to not do something just because some people don't want it.  Especially when some people will want it.

I don't know man, developers like Hello Games, they listen to their player base and they make gaming headlines specifically for that. Biggest comeback in gaming history is because they stayed dedicated to what they'd offer and listened to what gamers wanted even after they delivered. Look at escape from tarkov. $250 so you can hold more stuff and play offline. Lucrative Scam right there but it's a legit game company "doing what they thinks best"

[Mister Forgash]

So as long as we're bring water gate up again..  I don't think dew collectors are great or anything.. but I do think they're better than jar management.. And lets not forget running 500 jars of water to a pond, filling them, and being good on water for the next month- Is this the engaging gameplay you're pushing for to return?

[meganoth]

28 minutes ago, Ncredible1201 said:

That's not survivalist though. In real life depending on where you live (or location on the map) can go down the road to a little river and collect as much water as you can carry and bring it home and boil then let cool. If you need food, yeah that's gonna be harder just like real life. You'll need to set traps or wait in a tree for a deer. What you just said is true, water is easier to collect than food, why make it harder for no reason except "so I have another thing to worry about"?

 

It is unrealistic, sure. But what is "survivalist" exactly? Some survival games try to be very realistic but others don't care much about simulating reality. Consider this game to be one of the "don't care" survival games

 

Edited July 25 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Maharin]

If I wanted to play reality I'd... damn.

 

Reality is too hard.  NERF REALITY!

[meganoth]

22 minutes ago, Ncredible1201 said:

I don't know man, developers like Hello Games, they listen to their player base and they make gaming headlines specifically for that. Biggest comeback in gaming history is because they stayed dedicated to what they'd offer and listened to what gamers wanted even after they delivered. Look at escape from tarkov. $250 so you can hold more stuff and play offline. Lucrative Scam right there but it's a legit game company "doing what they thinks best"

 

Hello Games also had the biggest @%$#storm in gaming history because they did not deliver what they promised in a few talkshows. In effect they could have either closed their shop and go to the Bahamas (as nobody would ever have bought a game from them again) or try to make good on the promises they already made and put a cherry on top. Sony as their publisher probably wasn't too pleased about that reception either and may have pushed for doing "reparation". It was evident that apart from that initial storm Hello Games had a winner of a game in their hands that could still make a lot of money.

 

This is not meant critical, they showed that they wanted to correct their mistake, and they did. But it also was the only sensible way forward for them.

 

Edited July 25 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Verdigriss]

9 minutes ago, Mister Forgash said:

So as long as we're bring water gate up again..  I don't think dew collectors are great or anything.. but I do think they're better than jar management.. And lets not forget running 500 jars of water to a pond, filling them, and being good on water for the next month- Is this the engaging gameplay you're pushing for to return?

There's ways the water meta could have been improved, but you're here talking like having water collectable from water sources is somehow less engaging than having nonsensical water generator buildings running in your base as another heat source to draw screamers.

[meganoth]

3 minutes ago, Verdigriss said:

There's ways the water meta could have been improved, but you're here talking like having water collectable from water sources is somehow less engaging than having nonsensical water generator buildings running in your base as another heat source to draw screamers.

 

Nonsensical or not, before the change water was regularily thrown away by me and my friends if found in loot, because it often wasn't even worth a single inventory slot. Its worth was practically zero.

Now we generally keep water we find in loot like we do with other basic stuff. 

 

This is very simple. In a game an item with no value can either be removed entirely (ask other game developers, they will do that as well) or changed so it has a worth to players.

 

[theFlu]

16 minutes ago, Mister Forgash said:

Is this the engaging gameplay you're pushing for to return?

I wouldn't say "engaging" is a measure that was really improved.. "gather 500 jars" vs "gather 500 polymers" and you're sorted. The latter just introduced some daily micromanagement with a silly contraption that is mostly a pipe dream of the hippies in reality.

 

Dew collector; if the area you're in has sufficient moisture to allow you to gather 'dew' in any practicable quantity, it also has enough moisture for, you know, rain fall, which forms rivers and lakes, where the H2O is easily scooped into a container. There are some kickstarter projects trying to "mechanize" it, but condensing water from air (at any temperature) produces craptons of heat you have to get rid of for the process to continue. Thus, you'll need an external power source, and at that point you're about as well off straight up distilling sea water (or using any of the other, more efficient purification methods).

[Mister Forgash]

17 minutes ago, Verdigriss said:

There's ways the water meta could have been improved, but you're here talking like having water collectable from water sources is somehow less engaging than having nonsensical water generator buildings running in your base as another heat source to draw screamers.

As a matter of fact, running to a pond or river with a few hundred jars, and collecting one third of the water you'll need for the rest of the playthrough is objectively less engaging than crafting a station that generates water daily, encouraging you to visit it frequently, while meanwhile generating attention on the heatmap. Again, I don't think dew collectors are the holy grail or water management, but they are better than what was in place. I'd be delighted if we had something better still, but .. Really.. how many jars does it take until water is made irrelevant?  50? 100? 200?  ... Few enough that you can craft them all overnight and have water solved shortly after you have a forge and a shovel?

[Riamus]

38 minutes ago, Ncredible1201 said:

I don't know man, developers like Hello Games, they listen to their player base and they make gaming headlines specifically for that. Biggest comeback in gaming history is because they stayed dedicated to what they'd offer and listened to what gamers wanted even after they delivered. Look at escape from tarkov. $250 so you can hold more stuff and play offline. Lucrative Scam right there but it's a legit game company "doing what they thinks best"

And I said that some do.  But even there, I am sure you will find things in their games that some players really don't like.  There is no way to please everyone.  Developers can try if they want.  In many cases, that leads to a generic game that tries to be everything and isn't good at any of it.  Note that I am not saying it always happens that way.  There are always exceptions. 

 

Many developers don't have early access and open betas so they don't have to listen to complaints when they make changes.  Those who do are stuck with people saying they don't know what they are doing, they don't listen, .... 😅

 

[Verdigriss]

4 minutes ago, Mister Forgash said:

As a matter of fact, running to a pond or river with a few hundred jars, and collecting one third of the water you'll need for the rest of the playthrough is objectively less engaging than crafting a station that generates water daily, encouraging you to visit it frequently, while meanwhile generating attention on the heatmap. Again, I don't think dew collectors are the holy grail or water management, but they are better than what was in place. I'd be delighted if we had something better still, but .. Really.. how many jars does it take until water is made irrelevant?  50? 100? 200?  ... Few enough that you can craft them all overnight and have water solved shortly after you have a forge and a shovel?

Water is *supposed* to be a thing you have to hurry to *solve* early in the game.  And your water solution (campfire, cookpot, stash of water jars, water source) is tied to a specific base, which if the zeds overrun it you need to get that set up again.

That creates *progress.*  Getting things done.

Engagement is not chores that you have to grind through over and over again in the game.  That's the *exact opposite* of engagement.  That's not even grind, as grinding gets you permanent benefits.  It's a gameplay mechanic that's less engaging than grinding.  Chores are about the worst thing to put in a game.

 

Occasionally needing to boil a bunch of water is a survival mechanic.  Checking on my water collector every six hours is a chore.

[Mister Forgash]

6 minutes ago, Verdigriss said:

Water is *supposed* to be a thing you have to hurry to *solve* early in the game.  And your water solution (campfire, cookpot, stash of water jars, water source) is tied to a specific base, which if the zeds overrun it you need to get that set up again.

That creates *progress.*  Getting things done.

So... Similarly You get a campfire, a cook pot.. but in this instance, then you collect a bunch of plastic and smash it all together, and before you know it you've put something together that collects little bits of water.. It's not much, so you probably need more than one.. It's big, clunky, pretty much tied to the spot, and attracts some attention- I suppose in theory, it could even get overrun.. 

 

This is much like the progress you describe.

 

I think balance is a large part of this argument as well. Mostly that gathering hundreds of jars, and thus hundreds of water could be done in such a time frame as to utterly trivialize it. (Vast quantities that will satisfy your need for water for your entire playthrough in one or two trips.)

 

Dew collectors might feel like a chore if you're running 1 or 2  ... but by the time you're brewing up your own glue you'll be running more than that - With mods in them, that's 6 water per day, per collector.. Now, granted, I think it would be nice if they could hold more than 1 day's worth [Maybe? Please? Pimps hear me?], but as cheap as they are, I feel like it's plenty easy to just build a couple extra than to fret about 'oh what if I miss a day'. 

Compared to jars, this requires more time and resources, and puts you at more exposure to screamers.. but maybe water as it used to be, was too cheap and too safe.

[Ray Garraty]

6 hours ago, Ncredible1201 said:

a development team would focus on what the players wanted

The problem is different players have different opinions, so it's technically impossible to satisfy everybody

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Ray Garraty said:

The problem is different players have different opinions, so it's technically impossible to satisfy everybody

The second problem is that some players with a strong opinion think the entire player base thinks exactly like them and it’s a small but somehow powerful and irresistible cabal of very vocal players hypnotizing TFP into listening to them…

Edited July 26 by Roland (see edit history)

[Outlaw_187]

To hell with water........

 

I want the topless stripper RETURNED.........

and I want the Behemoth to be reconsidered!!!

 

Oh devs....listen to my pleas.....

 

Added: Oh yeah, I also want Learn by Doing back and the reintroduction of item degradation!!!

Edited July 26 by Outlaw_187 (see edit history)

[Bhaaltazar]

19 minutes ago, Outlaw_187 said:

Added: Oh yeah, I also want Learn by Doing back and the reintroduction of item degradation!!!

Definitely learn by doing and add books and magazines as addition to it. Well they aready had id in place in A16 but they went on and fixed something that wasn't broken. Players pushed against it in A17 "they solved it" with adding even more magazines lol

[CVenton]

"big 1.0" was supposed to include a Launch Party and some sort of VIP thing and we obviously didnt back those tiers but my friend is asking about the map he did pay for it was a long time ago so maybe they canceled it?

[meganoth]

34 minutes ago, CVenton said:

"big 1.0" was supposed to include a Launch Party and some sort of VIP thing and we obviously didnt back those tiers but my friend is asking about the map he did pay for it was a long time ago so maybe they canceled it?

 

Thats very vague. Maybe your friend should go to the kickstarter page, find what only he can find, and post it here.

 

[Outlaw_187]

6 hours ago, Bhaaltazar said:

Definitely learn by doing and add books and magazines as addition to it. Well they aready had id in place in A16 but they went on and fixed something that wasn't broken. Players pushed against it in A17 "they solved it" with adding even more magazines lol

That they did. Definitely not the route i'd take but it's their game right. 

I still enjoy the hell out of it. I was just more or less being a smart ass although I do really want all that stuff I mentioned 😁

[CVenton]

9 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Thats very vague. Maybe your friend should go to the kickstarter page, find what only he can find, and post it here.

 

 

I'm sure you have a good connection to internet as do I, but here you go.  He doesnt have an account here nor does he care to, that's why I'm here.

This is the information on the publicly available website regardint the "VIP party" thing i mentioned.  someone bought it, not us!

HE SURVIVAL PARTY - 2 VIP tickets to the launch party to meet the developers in Dallas + 7 Days to Die T-Shirt + Character Poster + World Map + Name in the credits + Alpha + Beta + Finished Game + Kickstarter Backer Badge + Bring your World Map, Character Poster and T-Shirt to get signed by the team!

The one below is one he backed for 50 dollars as did 429 other people.  I don't really understand what's vague about that but I'll ask if there's something he can see that I cant???  If you are saying they got told it was canceled, he wasnt aware.  I will look with him later, sorry.

THE CARTOGRAPHER - Collectable printed 11 x 17 World Map + Name in the credits + Alpha + Beta + Finished Game + Kickstarter Backer Badge

Edited July 26 by CVenton (see edit history)

[meganoth]

25 minutes ago, CVenton said:

'm sure you have a good connection to internet as do I, but here you go.

 

Note I am not an employee of TFP and I also don't have all the kickstarter goals memorized. And after 12 years any TFP employee who reads this might also not know what he is talking about unless he is more specific.

 

25 minutes ago, CVenton said:

THE CARTOGRAPHER - Collectable printed 11 x 17 World Map + Name in the credits + Alpha + Beta + Finished Game + Kickstarter Backer Badge

 

Oh, look, that's not vague at all. Thank you. There might be people on the forum who know more about this particular goal and they can answer now even without a search. @Roland maybe?

 

Generally, there are still some kickstarter goals missing, like bandits, but they are on the roadmap as the game isn't really finished. There will be further free versions published in the next 2 years. And I would suspect physical kickstarter rewards like above will get sent when they **really** declare the game finished

 

PS: This FAQ might be helpful: https://7daystodie.com/alpha-exodus-leaving-early-access/

 

Edited July 26 by meganoth (see edit history)

[CVenton]

17 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Generally, there are still some kickstarter goals missing, like bandits, but they are on the roadmap as the game isn't really finished. There will be further free versions published in the next 2 years. And I would suspect physical kickstarter rewards like above will get sent when they **really** declare the game finished

Thats true, makes sense since they are still adding stuff.  thank you for the link too.

[Scyris]

Its not really 1.0 its still alpha 22. Whole reason its called 1.0 is due to some red tape to get it certified to come out on sony and MS consoles, the game is clearly far from finished as it has nothing past early game atm, I mean the first screen you see when you load the game still says its pre-release software on pc. There is no way they missed that considering in testing they would have to load the game up a TON.

 

7dtd used to be one of my fave games even in unmodded vanilla, but these days, I cannot stand vanilla without mods, its just too lacking, the skill system still sucks and is unfun for single player games, due to having 5 stat gates for perks and more importantly weapons, I'd prefer it like a16.4 and just have a single char level gate instead with action skills for the weapons and mining tools (Yeah I know beating a dead horse but its still the better skill system by far). The lock picking is garbage, it needs a skyrim/fallout style minigame so its more based on player skill than RNG garbage. There is a mod for a21.2 that will prob come to a22 aka 1.0 that does just that, changes lockpicking to an actual minigame, and changes the perk to make it easier to win as you level it. Would be nice if vanilla got this, as I am tired with max perks breaking 10-15 lockpicks to open 1 container because thats how random it is. If one guy by himself can code a skyrim/fallout style lockpick system including graphics and models for it, there is no reason TFP can't when they have a entire team. Also "Mod it in" is not an excuse to avoid having to improve vanilla with features players want, I know people like to use that excuse all the time.

 

I do propose a way to fix the stat system, and all it'd need really is some perks being shuffled around. A 3 stat system, Combat, Survival and Utility. Combat has all the weapons in it and perks that directly effect combat like the + sneak attack damage perk as well as the base stat effecting headshot dmg and dismember chance bonus. Survival has stuff like Master Chef, Physician, Parkour, hidden in shadows. Utility has stuff like miner 69'er/motherload, Advanced engineering, grease monkey, lockpicking etc. This way the skill system is better for single player AND people can still specilize for multiplayer, Like your miner or builder is prob going to go high into utility at first and leave combat and survival lower. Base Mom/Dad that does the cooking etc is gonna go into survival heavily at first. Then you have your fighters, they'd go heavy into combat first. Magazine and perk book loot chances are based on the levels of the perk like pummel pete etc instead of the stat being a factor if it is a factor in the first place. Could also add some uniqueness to the stats as well, where each gives a small bonus to things, well you'd basically have to do this for survival and utility, as Combat would have one already with the headshot/dismember chance bonus.

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Note I am not an employee of TFP and I also don't have all the kickstarter goals memorized. And after 12 years any TFP employee who reads this might also not know what he is talking about unless he is more specific.

 

 

Oh, look, that's not vague at all. Thank you. There might be people on the forum who know more about this particular goal and they can answer now even without a search. @Roland maybe?

 

Generally, there are still some kickstarter goals missing, like bandits, but they are on the roadmap as the game isn't really finished. There will be further free versions published in the next 2 years. And I would suspect physical kickstarter rewards like above will get sent when they **really** declare the game finished

 

PS: This FAQ might be helpful: https://7daystodie.com/alpha-exodus-leaving-early-access/

 

 

I am hoping with the random gen for consoles its actually random, instead of what we have currently in 1.0 where every map is essentally the same, due to the limits set, I also hope it comes to pc, as the current randomgen kinda sucks, as every map is basically the same atm, only real diff is what poi's spawn in a town, and how close your first trader is to another biome. Yes I am aware I can mod it out, but I'd prefer to just have a option in game to disable it, and a option to force 1 of each proper trader in their biome but allow the others to be randomized. I'd also like a option to disable zombie rage (The speed boost they get when taking damage randomly) as it just results in alot of cheap hits, especially when zombies can often attack during a stumble animation with 0 attack animation and hit you, that needs to get fixed, needs to be animation limits so they cannot start an attack during a stumble or getting up off the floor etc. We have a option to enable/disable feral sense, so I see no reason why we cannot get this for the cheapshot aka zombie rage system in the options as well when you start a new game or load a old one.

[Cr0wst0rm]

17 hours ago, Riamus said:

1.0 is not gold.  The game is still in alpha regardless of the name change.  Gold will be in a couple years per the roadmap and will include things like the weather changes you mention.

 

And developers make the game they want.  If it coincides with player wants, great.  If not, then so be it.  They might adjust things that are requested or not liked, but they don't have to and major things aren't likely to be changed.  Besides, any feature you think of will have people who like it one way and people who like it another.  So saying they don't do something the way players want is not really accurate. 

 

Regarding cross play, it already works for the devs.  But they need to go through an approval process with Sony and Microsoft before it is allowed and those companies are the ones who determine how much cross play is allowed.  And what if they did wait until cross play was available before releasing to console?  You would still get cross play at the same time but would prevent all the console players from being able to play the new version at all for that extra time.  I can just about guarantee that most console players would prefer getting it without cross play now and then get cross play later rather than have to wait until cross play is available.

Then why calling it 1.0 and not alpha 22?

[Adam the Waster]

8 minutes ago, Cr0wst0rm said:

Then why calling it 1.0 and not alpha 22?

Probably just so they can sell it on consoles