I Genuinely love this game but I have a couple problems with 1.0

[GhostlyTurtle]

This is my favorite survival crafting game by far I have been playing this since I was a kid with my dad, I love this game I think it does so many things right I like the feel of looting and leveling, the fighting is overall pretty good and it just offers a fun and content packed experience that keeps you wanting more and lets you easily put 100s of hours even into just vanilla.

 

But, certain changes in the 1.0 have really confused me and have felt as if they are going backwards in some ways. I'm not one of those people that was angry about the game being in alpha for a long time I just saw that as more content, and the new dew collector and magazine system I don't mind either, and overall I am way more happy with the leveling and unlock system than I have ever been before. Most of these changes in recent updates have been very welcome to me or I understand the reasoning for them. Some of the 1.0 changes have just made the game less fun to me overall.

 

RWG was honestly not that bad before I think cutting in half generation time is great but locking traders to certain biomes and restricting the RWG so that all biomes must be created just seems pointless. I also don't really get why all large cities must be in wasteland it just restricts your map even more I can understand how the big cities would be the nuked places but why take away map creation options in an open world sandbox game. All of these things didn't exist before and RWG felt way more freeform and fun to make seeds out of but now every map will be virtually the same, big cities in wasteland towns everywhere else and every map is all biomes why not just add these changes to navezgane? why force into every map?

 

I have had trouble with freezing in this game before it just happens sometimes it wasn't that annoying I just dealt with it but since I have been playing 1.0 about every 10 times I open a menu my game freezes for about 5 seconds. This is no matter what quality I am on and whether I am playing with friends or not, I have no other problems in running the game in fact even on blood moons I get no low frames or anything of the sort so I am almost sure this is a game problem and not a computer one.

 

I also honestly think the progression has gotten a little quicker than I'd like I usually play on warrior in wastelands so I am aware that my game stage will progress a lot faster but I truly do not think even with lucky looter or perks in daring adventurer I should be getting any steel weapon or tool pre 1st blood moon. That just feels a bit too fast and yes I know min maxing makes it faster but I don't think any amount of min maxing should allow me to have the best version of any of my stuff before the first week is up that just straight up feels ridiculous.

 

On another note though I really like the new dew collector mods, I like the new armor system, the new gore system, and all the new tier 5s they've put in. I also think limiting traders was smart because they were a bit too op in the past, I still think they did a lot of good things in this update and I'm still overall happy with the game and will continue to play it, this is all just opinion and i just felt like the game was moving backwards in some ways which disappointed me a bit.

[Riamus]

22 hours ago, GhostlyTurtle said:

This is my favorite survival crafting game by far I have been playing this since I was a kid with my dad, I love this game I think it does so many things right I like the feel of looting and leveling, the fighting is overall pretty good and it just offers a fun and content packed experience that keeps you wanting more and lets you easily put 100s of hours even into just vanilla.

 

But, certain changes in the 1.0 have really confused me and have felt as if they are going backwards in some ways. I'm not one of those people that was angry about the game being in alpha for a long time I just saw that as more content, and the new dew collector and magazine system I don't mind either, and overall I am way more happy with the leveling and unlock system than I have ever been before. Most of these changes in recent updates have been very welcome to me or I understand the reasoning for them. Some of the 1.0 changes have just made the game less fun to me overall.

 

RWG was honestly not that bad before I think cutting in half generation time is great but locking traders to certain biomes and restricting the RWG so that all biomes must be created just seems pointless. I also don't really get why all large cities must be in wasteland it just restricts your map even more I can understand how the big cities would be the nuked places but why take away map creation options in an open world sandbox game. All of these things didn't exist before and RWG felt way more freeform and fun to make seeds out of but now every map will be virtually the same, big cities in wasteland towns everywhere else and every map is all biomes why not just add these changes to navezgane? why force into every map?

 

I have had trouble with freezing in this game before it just happens sometimes it wasn't that annoying I just dealt with it but since I have been playing 1.0 about every 10 times I open a menu my game freezes for about 5 seconds. This is no matter what quality I am on and whether I am playing with friends or not, I have no other problems in running the game in fact even on blood moons I get no low frames or anything of the sort so I am almost sure this is a game problem and not a computer one.

 

I also honestly think the progression has gotten a little quicker than I'd like I usually play on warrior in wastelands so I am aware that my game stage will progress a lot faster but I truly do not think even with lucky looter or perks in daring adventurer I should be getting any steel weapon or tool pre 1st blood moon. That just feels a bit too fast and yes I know min maxing makes it faster but I don't think any amount of min maxing should allow me to have the best version of any of my stuff before the first week is up that just straight up feels ridiculous.

 

On another note though I really like the new dew collector mods, I like the new armor system, the new gore system, and all the new tier 5s they've put in. I also think limiting traders was smart because they were a bit too op in the past, I still think they did a lot of good things in this update and I'm still overall happy with the game and will continue to play it, this is all just opinion and i just felt like the game was moving backwards in some ways which disappointed me a bit.

By any chance, is the game installed on HDD instead of SSD?  Or do you have under 16GB RAM?  These can affect freezing significantly.  You might be able to get more specific help with that part in the general support forum with a log file. 

 

Progression has actually been greatly reduced in both A21 and 1.0.  However, depending on your settings and how you play the game, progression can still be fast.  If you stick to the forest for the first week, it is unlikely you will get steel before the first blood moon, for example.  Other things also affect this.  Now, if you just mean that you can buy stuff from the trader early, then yes, I agree the trader inventory should be limited by game stage and not give end game stuff on day 1.

 

For RWG, I agree that the reading progression is not good.  I'm fine with that in Navesgane or even pregen maps, but random maps should either have that disabled or else it should be a game option.  The reason is that future story progression is tied to that, but we didn't have that sorry progression so it doesn't make sense.  And even with the story progression, random maps shouldn't have to be tied to the story.  You can adjust these in the rwgmixer file, though.  But trader progression will still be the same order even if they are in different biomes than default.

Edited July 26 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Roland]

Big cities spawn in Burnt Forest, Desert, and Snow biomes as well as Wasteland. Wasteland is not the exclusive biome for big cities.

 

You aren't the only one who feels the way you've described about the trader/biome progression so we will see what TFP plans to do. This feature is only partially complete and they have more development to do which may make it worse or better depending on your preferences. It also could be that once they have bandits and the story complete, all of the biome progression, reputation, and story elements will be confined to Navezgane and possibly the pregens and random maps will be random-- or they may make an option which disables the biome/trader progression and makes it random.

 

But if not, there will certainly be a mod for it.

[Riamus]

1 minute ago, Roland said:

Big cities spawn in Burnt Forest, Desert, and Snow biomes as well as Wasteland. Wasteland is not the exclusive biome for big cities.

I haven't checked, but someone mentioned a specific extra large city that is tied only to wasteland.  There are still large cities elsewhere, but it's sounds like the largest is only wasteland.  Of course, the others still have the downtown and commercial districts so you still get the good tier 5s in them.

[Roland]

Just now, Riamus said:

I haven't checked, but someone mentioned a specific extra large city that is tied only to wasteland.  There are still large cities elsewhere, but it's sounds like the largest is only wasteland.  Of course, the others still have the downtown and commercial districts so you still get the good tier 5s in them.

 

Maybe the Wasteland is a super city but as you say the other biomes have the same regular-sized cities with downtown areas and t5 POIs that the game has had for the last few years. I'm in a desert city and it has t4 and t5 POIs all over the place and a nice downtown area. Seems just like the cities I've played in since A18.

 

Maybe they will eventually put exclusive POIs in the wasteland supercity but I don't think that's the case now.

[GhostlyTurtle]

54 minutes ago, Riamus said:

By any chance, is the game installed on HDD instead of SSD?  Or do you have under 16GB RAM?  These can affect freezing significantly.  You might be able to get more specific help with that part in the general support forum with a log file. 

 

Progression has actually been greatly reduced in both A21 and 1.0.  However, depending on your settings and how you play the game, progression can still be fast.  If you stick to the first for the first week, it is unlikely you will get steel before the first blood moon, for example.  Other things also affect this.  Now, if you just mean that you can buy stuff from the trader early, then yes, I agree the trader inventory should be limited by game stage and not give end game stuff on day 1.

 

For RWG, I agree that the reading progression is not good.  I'm fine with that in Navesgane or even pregen maps, but random maps should either have that disabled or else it should be a game option.  The reason is that future story progression is tied to that, but we didn't have that sorry progression so it doesn't make sense.  And even with the story progression, random maps shouldn't have to be tied to the story.  You can adjust these in the rwgmixer file, though.  But trader progression will still be the same order even if they are in different biomes than default.

My game is on an SSD I do have under 16GB of RAM but it feels  a little weird that I would need that seeing as the recommended amount of RAM is only 12GB, as for progression I have changed nothing but my map and the difficulty I have no mods and everything else is vanilla and I am getting steel spears and steel picks pre 1st blood moon I do have points in lucky looter but that still feels crazy. I do def agree that traders are selling crazy stuff way too fast tho.

58 minutes ago, Roland said:

Big cities spawn in Burnt Forest, Desert, and Snow biomes as well as Wasteland. Wasteland is not the exclusive biome for big cities.

 

You aren't the only one who feels the way you've described about the trader/biome progression so we will see what TFP plans to do. This feature is only partially complete and they have more development to do which may make it worse or better depending on your preferences. It also could be that once they have bandits and the story complete, all of the biome progression, reputation, and story elements will be confined to Navezgane and possibly the pregens and random maps will be random-- or they may make an option which disables the biome/trader progression and makes it random.

 

But if not, there will certainly be a mod for it.

There are cities in those but they are no where near the size of any wasteland city no matter how I generate it I used to be able to get huge cities or possibly connecting cities everywhere but it seems very tied to wasteland right now maybe others have different experiences but after messing with RWG quite a bit and making many different worlds they all have very similar layouts. And yeah hopefully we will get a mod or smthn like that it just sucks that I have to use mods for that kind of thing.

[meganoth]

51 minutes ago, GhostlyTurtle said:

My game is on an SSD I do have under 16GB of RAM but it feels  a little weird that I would need that seeing as the recommended amount of RAM is only 12GB, as for progression I have changed nothing but my map and the difficulty I have no mods and everything else is vanilla and I am getting steel spears and steel picks pre 1st blood moon I do have points in lucky looter but that still feels crazy. I do def agree that traders are selling crazy stuff way too fast tho.

 

The information missing here is from where? Do you buy the steel spears and picks from the trader, get them as rewards or do you find them in chests of high level POIs?

 

[GhostlyTurtle]

9 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

The information missing here is from where? Do you buy the steel spears and picks from the trader, get them as rewards or do you find them in chests of high level POIs?

 

My bad I looted both I honestly dont remember what exactly I looted for the pickaxe but the steel spear came from a cop car on day 6 I remember because I was incredibly surprised by it.

[BFT2020]

To even get a chance to loot a steel spear, your lootstage had to be a minimum of 80 by day 6

[Roland]

1 hour ago, GhostlyTurtle said:

And yeah hopefully we will get a mod or smthn like that it just sucks that I have to use mods for that kind of thing.

 

For me it is novel and refreshing since it is different than what we've had. I am currently enjoying the progression to the biggest cities just as I enjoy the progression to the most powerful in other aspects of the game. However, I definitely agree that for long-term play, pure randomness and/or player control over how the land generates would be ideal. Novelty does wear off eventually....

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, GhostlyTurtle said:

I usually play on warrior in wastelands

 

This is probably the explanation for that high gamestage. When the biomes were changed to areas of different difficulty one reason mentioned was to allow players a more challenging game for better loot

 

Though in effect the better loot will later remove some of that challenge again.

 

 

Edited July 25 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Suxar]

12 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

To even get a chance to loot a steel spear, your lootstage had to be a minimum of 80 by day 6

With Lucky Looter in the wasteland this is quite possible.

[Thaledwyn]

Feeling exactly the same for RWG.

 

All generated maps are somehow quite the same now.

[zombiehunter]

I agree with the OP about RWG.  How can you call it random now?  Traders are tied to specific biomes, when generating a map you have to select from preset patterns, you know that the forest will have no cities, only small towns, and you know exactly how you will progress from trader/biome to trader/biome.  It feels really scripted now and that is not random.

 

This is the one change made for v1.0 that I really dislike.  I hope that they revert this somehow in the future so that a random map is actually random.

[Skaarphy]

15 hours ago, zombiehunter said:

I agree with the OP about RWG.  How can you call it random now?  Traders are tied to specific biomes, when generating a map you have to select from preset patterns, you know that the forest will have no cities, only small towns, and you know exactly how you will progress from trader/biome to trader/biome.  It feels really scripted now and that is not random.

 

This is the one change made for v1.0 that I really dislike.  I hope that they revert this somehow in the future so that a random map is actually random.

Not a fan of this change at all either, but what makes it worse for me is the lack of communication on TFP's part. Why did they do it? There's only speculation, maybe some vague hints here and there. Or maybe there isn't but they sure as @%$# don't say in the patchnotes or anywhere near them.

 

I remember a discussion on the Grim Dawn forums about why there is no option of an infinite stash, or at least a considerably larger one, for the collectors. Many people were for it, many didn't care, but nobody was against it, except for the devs. Their explanation seemed a bit silly but at least they gave an explanation. And people accepted that.

And when that discussion invariably came up again some time later people could always refer to it.

 

I'm not saying TFP owe us eplanations when they make drastic changes - because technically all they owe us is the game, right? - but it's a bit analogous to be written out of a will by grandma: Grandma doesn't owe anybody any money, it's hers and she's free to do with it as she pleases but - by Crom! - it would be nice for Susan to know why everybody else gets something except for Susan, wouldn't it? If it isn't obvious, that is.

And, back to 7DTD, none of their recent big, drastic changes have been in obvious need for them to happen, have they? So why not make a few remarks regarding their reasoning and the process behind their decisions? Together with the patchnotes, like so many other devs do?

 

Anyway, mods it is then. Until some update @%$#s them up, but still.

Edited July 27 by Skaarphy (see edit history)

[Riamus]

46 minutes ago, Skaarphy said:

Not a fan of this change at all either, but what makes it worse for me is the lack of communication on TFP's part. Why did they do it? There's only speculation, maybe some vague hints here and there. Or maybe there isn't but they sure as @%$# don't say in the patchnotes or anywhere near them.

Well, they have said that it relates to the upcoming story progression and have also mentioned wanting a biome progression.  That's about as much as they're likely to say until they are ready to get into details about the story progression.

[Skaarphy]

3 hours ago, Riamus said:

Well, they have said that it relates to the upcoming story progression and have also mentioned wanting a biome progression.  That's about as much as they're likely to say until they are ready to get into details about the story progression.

Not to be too negative because I think they've made a really good game there and they deserve credit for that. But this isn't really my issue. Or actually it is, in a way. Where did they say that? Some off-hand comment on a dev stream? Some response to some guy on reddit? 

 

And, really, not to be too negative and angry but I just don't know what else to be. You're talking about the story progression that's due in 18 months or so, as per roadmap, right? I have no problem with the story taking so long. I'm sure they'd do it faster if they could. And I guess for many people it's not a priority anyway.

But why not have an internal version - where they have biome and trader progression and whatnot all fixated and where they work on the story - and one for the public where things are as sandboxy as they used to be? Why introduce these restrictions now when "story" isn't even on the horizon?

Or why not develop two seperate versions: One, "story mode", and one "sandbox mode"? Not really a revolutionary concept, is it?

 

They're not rhetorical questions. I truly don't know. I mean, they must have good reasons for that, right? 

But they don't say. Not even AAA game developers are as tight-lipped as TFP and as unwilling to "explain themselves":

 

I have this imagination about what's going on with them, just some BS but that's how they come across to me: Years and years ago they were these kind of nerdy fellows who've made this unique almost niche game and got successful with it beyond their wildest dreams, raking in tens of millions of dollars. So they started living the good life. Drugs, parties, hookers, constantly high-fiving each other, completely coked up. They stopped being these nerdy fellows with a unique idea and became the movers and shakers of their fantasy. The Guys Who Made It. And now, after all these years, they feel nothing but low-level disdain and pity for those still playing their game because they've moved so much beyond that. Gone is their vision, their original idea, all that remains is the obligation to finish their product, and to rake in more money.

 

Not being serious, of course. But I wouldn't be surprised if it's not too far from the truth ... 

[minisith]

9 minutes ago, Skaarphy said:

Not to be too negative because I think they've made a really good game there and they deserve credit for that. But this isn't really my issue. Or actually it is, in a way. Where did they say that? Some off-hand comment on a dev stream? Some response to some guy on reddit? 

 

And, really, not to be too negative and angry but I just don't know what else to be. You're talking about the story progression that's due in 18 months or so, as per roadmap, right? I have no problem with the story taking so long. I'm sure they'd do it faster if they could. And I guess for many people it's not a priority anyway.

But why not have an internal version - where they have biome and trader progression and whatnot all fixated and where they work on the story - and one for the public where things are as sandboxy as they used to be? Why introduce these restrictions now when "story" isn't even on the horizon?

Or why not develop two seperate versions: One, "story mode", and one "sandbox mode"? Not really a revolutionary concept, is it?

 

They're not rhetorical questions. I truly don't know. I mean, they must have good reasons for that, right? 

But they don't say. Not even AAA game developers are as tight-lipped as TFP and as unwilling to "explain themselves":

 

I have this imagination about what's going on with them, just some BS but that's how they come across to me: Years and years ago they were these kind of nerdy fellows who've made this unique almost niche game and got successful with it beyond their wildest dreams, raking in tens of millions of dollars. So they started living the good life. Drugs, parties, hookers, constantly high-fiving each other, completely coked up. They stopped being these nerdy fellows with a unique idea and became the movers and shakers of their fantasy. The Guys Who Made It. And now, after all these years, they feel nothing but low-level disdain and pity for those still playing their game because they've moved so much beyond that. Gone is their vision, their original idea, all that remains is the obligation to finish their product, and to rake in more money.

 

Not being serious, of course. But I wouldn't be surprised if it's not too far from the truth ... 

You have a wild fantasy.    

 

While TFP are still putting out updates and fixes.   Clearly working on the game.

[theFlu]

26 minutes ago, Skaarphy said:

Or why not develop two seperate versions: One, "story mode", and one "sandbox mode"? Not really a revolutionary concept, is it?

Because that would double the effort, and they have no plans for a "sandbox-version" to be released officially. So it'd be pointless effort. And there's no guessing if their sandbox version would even meet your specs for one anyway.

[Skaarphy]

2 hours ago, minisith said:

You have a wild fantasy.    

 

While TFP are still putting out updates and fixes.   Clearly working on the game.

You should have known me 20 years ago. Just kidding. 

 

I'm not saying they're not working on the game, I'm saying they've lost touch. Or they've removed themselves from touch.

How else to explain changes that no one ever asked for, solving problems that never seemed to be a problem to begin with.

How else to explain the lack of a philosophy of transparency? Embracing the opposite, in fact?

How else to explain their unwillingness to address actual issues?

 

Regarding the latter, perks are pretty unbalanced, right? There are noob traps galore, there are "must have" ones, there are the ones that are seriously misleading in their phrasing and/or in their ultimate benefit. It's not drastic but it is there. Why not address that?

 

I would imagine, dev teams in love with their game, believing in their game, would do something about it. 

Instead, and ignoring that, mechanical changes that - by pure coincidence, I'm sure - brings the game more in line with every other run-of-the-mill shooter/survival/builder whatever game on the market. And do nothing much else.

And cosmetic updates. Because of course.  

 

And, just as an example, regarding mechanical changes, now we apparently don't feel cold anymore, or heat. And the two mods that you used to put in your armor, or your clothing, to counter their respective ill-effects, they've become as useful as [I'm right now too angry to think of something completely useless, it's all red mist]. Anyway, that's how useless!

 

Why not do something about it for the oh so glorious 1.0? FFS, why didn't they?

 

If the game weren't as good, I'd be done with it. As it is though, I keep playing on. I just love it too much. And maybe in a year or two, with mods. who knows ...     

[avalonnn]

Regarding RWG, I like the new roads. Personally, playing solo, use zero mountains and hills, and minimize lakes and rivers. Most importantly, I set world size to ~4000. Then my trader quests are not impossible. I watched a streamer who, on day 6, had a 2.2 km trip for the second trader (desert) but ran into a mountain and then a river --- was nearly stranded in the desert for the first horde night. Also, BTW, a demon wolf spawned in a tier 2 POI on day 5...instant death in the kitchen. 

Edited July 27 by avalonnn (see edit history)

[Riamus]

3 hours ago, Skaarphy said:

Where did they say that? Some off-hand comment on a dev stream? Some response to some guy on reddit? 

faatal in either a dev diary or patch thread in this forum has mentioned this (I believe it was him) in response to questions about it.  I don't feel like searching for it as there are tons of posts, but that's where I've seen it.

[Kosmic Kerman]

On 7/25/2024 at 4:11 PM, GhostlyTurtle said:

I have had trouble with freezing in this game before it just happens sometimes it wasn't that annoying I just dealt with it but since I have been playing 1.0 about every 10 times I open a menu my game freezes for about 5 seconds. This is no matter what quality I am on and whether I am playing with friends or not, I have no other problems in running the game in fact even on blood moons I get no low frames or anything of the sort so I am almost sure this is a game problem and not a computer one.

 

 

Just in case no one mentioned it, the game does garbage collection anytime you open the UI, i.e., inventory, loot, etc. The longer it's been since GC ran the longer it takes. GC is an unavoidable part of Unity games. A couple of alphas ago the decision was made to have GC run when the UI is opened to give players some agency over when it occurs. The feeling being it was better to occur when you open a container or open your inventory than randomly during combat. For me the delay is never more than 1-2 seconds. This will vary based on computer specs of course.

 

[meganoth]

9 hours ago, Skaarphy said:

How else to explain changes that no one ever asked for

 

They themselves asked for them. I have never seen TFP giving the players the right to design THEIR game.

And when they were asked here in the forum they always told us why a change was done. They always had valid reasons for doing something. One still could have a different opinion but it was never about creating castles in the air 😉

 

 

[Skaarphy]

On 7/28/2024 at 2:13 AM, meganoth said:

 

They themselves asked for them. I have never seen TFP giving the players the right to design THEIR game.

And when they were asked here in the forum they always told us why a change was done. They always had valid reasons for doing something. One still could have a different opinion but it was never about creating castles in the air 😉

 

 

Valid reasons? I'd love to see the reasoning behind removing clothing but keeping cold and heat protection mods in the game, for which now there's no need whatsoever.

And, speaking of which, I'd love to see the reasoning behind effectively removing cold and heat debuffs from the game altogether. Was that intended, or just a coincidental side effect of removing clothes, which they didn't bother to account for?

Or the reason why it has become impossible to gather water from a body of water. 

Or why in A21 they deemed it absolutely necessary to make water filters available only through traders. And what the @%$# was that, by the way?

So many questions.

 

And regarding the points I've made above, did they ever mention why you cannot now make RWG maps as you see fit? Why 1.0 absolutely needed these restrictions although that what they were implemented for - allegedly - is still one and a half years in the future?

 

And, most of all - and again! - why not communicate the reasoning behind significant changes in the patchnotes? "Hey guys, we didn't like the old armor system, we thought it was too simplistic, too much of a one-way-street, so we thought how about armor sets? Blah, blah, blah, reasoning, reasoning, design philosphy, maths, data, facts and stuff, and let us know your thoughts ..." You know, something like that.

Just so people know where they're at. To get an idea what's going on, what they might expect in the future. 

 

I see none of that. Instead, patchnotes littered with gems like this: "Property for CallGameEvent triggeredEffect to allow client call."

Fascinating. Anybody who gives a @%$# know what that means?