No cities in the forest biome anymore. What kind of horse hockey is this?

[ElCabong]

To be honest, I really don't care for cities. I care for news boxes, mailboxes, and crack a books.

 

Oh, and there's a server bug where the zombies don't move.

[Adam the Waster]

Tbh I kinda like and dislike it. 

 

1 hand it makes sense city's wouldn't be in such a rual area. But the other its RANDOM gen. And plus who wouldn't want a city in such a nice forest. 

 

Hopefully I can find one in the burnt forest.  My favorite biome

[hoffmanm106]

Yeah, spent an hour on world gen, I could not force any city into Pine Forest. Think someone needs to bring back Nitrogen.

[Roland]

Be warned. This is just the beginning of biome progression.

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Roland Be warned like this is actually a thing? No cities at all in the forest? And does that mean just cities or also no towns?

 

Also if this is just the beginning this is another hard fact that shows that we are still in early access. Relabeling. That´s all that happened.

Edited Monday at 10:59 PM by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Roland]

1 minute ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Be warned like this is actually a thing? No cities at all in the forest?

 

There are some towns and residential areas good for t1 and t2 quests but no big cities spawn in the green forest. You usually get one in the burnt forest though so that is probably where you want to head to after getting the initial stuff out of the way.

 

3 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Also if this is just the beginning this is another hard fact that shows that we are still in early access. Relabeling. That´s all that happened.

 

Since you believe it is still early access, I will respond that this is what you signed up for....

[MechanicalLens]

6 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@Roland Be warned like this is actually a thing? No cities at all in the forest? And does that mean just cities or also no towns?

 

Also if this is just the beginning this is another hard fact that shows that we are still in early access. Relabeling. That´s all that happened.

 

I assume the biome progression will work a bit like Darkness Falls. Enter a harsh biome on day 1, and you'll suffer from severe stamina penalties (or for the wasteland, radiation), severely discouraging you from going there the moment you spawn, unless you enjoy walking everywhere with exponential loss to food or thirst. I'm not sure what TFP's gameplan is, to encourage you to craft specific outfits before going into these biomes, or the insulated liner / cooling mesh mods, or something else entirely. Hopefully it's not too RNG based so you might be locked out of entering the desert for too long because RNG decided that playthrough that it didn't like you.

Edited Monday at 11:04 PM by MechanicalLens (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Roland  I never ever said anything about development beeing to slow, i wouldn´t mind another 5 years. But for new players that now buy this is deceptive. People already made a drama that they had to start a new game with each version when it was still called early access. Now the new players will start even more drama and rightfully so.

 

If tehy label the game 1.0 the least they should do is that no new saves are required with a new version. Wich we know is not possible as RWG and biome progression are not done yet.

 

And the worst thing is you can´t even refund, because once you find that out, you are way over 2 hours....

Edited Monday at 11:10 PM by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Roland]

1 minute ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

I assume the biome progression will work a bit like Darkness Falls. Enter a harsh biome on day 1, and you'll suffer from severe stamina penalties (or for the wasteland, radiation), severely discouraging you from going there the moment you spawn, unless you enjoy walking everywhere with exponential loss to food or thirst. I'm not sure what TFP's gameplan is, to encourage you to craft specific outfits before going into these biomes, or the insulated liner / cooling mesh mods, or something else entirely. Hopefully it's not too RNG based so you might be locked out of entering the desert for too long because RNG decided that playthrough that it didn't like you.

 

I don't know the full plan, myself. What I do know is that there will be environmental hazards like you brought up that you won't be able to survive without the necessary gear. There will also be incentives to go to the different biomes. The beginnings of that are what we see with 1.0 where traders are locked to their specific biome so that you must enter all biomes in order to interact with all traders and also the fact that there are no cities in forest but they do start spawning in the burnt forest and upward. Right now the incentive to visit all the traders is pretty minimal despite their specialties but once they add reputation and the story mode is in there will almost certainly be strong reasons to visit every trader at some point.

 

I don't know how they will work outfits into it.

[MechanicalLens]

Just now, Roland said:

 

I don't know the full plan, myself. What I do know is that there will be environmental hazards like you brought up that you won't be able to survive without the necessary gear. There will also be incentives to go to the different biomes. The beginnings of that are what we see with 1.0 where traders are locked to their specific biome so that you must enter all biomes in order to interact with all traders and also the fact that there are no cities in forest but they do start spawning in the burnt forest and upward. Right now the incentive to visit all the traders is pretty minimal despite their specialties but once they add reputation and the story mode is in there will almost certainly be strong reasons to visit every trader at some point.

 

I don't know how they will work outfits into it.

 

I assume at some point they'll remove the ability to generate single biome worlds / to remove biomes from RWG worlds? I would assume creating these types of maps would severely break progression in the future.

[Roland]

Just now, pApA^LeGBa said:

@Roland I don´t care. I never ever said anything about development beeing to slow. But for new players that now buy this is deceptive. People already made a drama that they had to start a new game with each version when it was still called early access. Now the new players will start even more drama and rightfully so.

 

If tehy label the game 1.0 the least they should do is that no new saves are required with a new version. Wich we know is not possible as RWG and biome progression are not done yet.

 

And the worst thing is you can´t even refund, because once you find that out, you are way over 2 hours....

 

So far they are confident they can add new content without breaking saves. I think that's why they changed the RWG city spawning rules first before 1.0 came out. Adding radiation to the wasteland won't mess with RWG and wouldn't require a restart. I don't know how they will do it. Maybe they will fail and people will be mad. I think worst case is that they make a content update a free DLC that is optional to be downloaded with the warning that it will break saves. That way the customer chooses and their game isn't automatically updated against their will.

5 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

I assume at some point they'll remove the ability to generate single biome worlds / to remove biomes from RWG worlds? I would assume creating these types of maps would severely break progression in the future.

 

Who knows? Maybe a lot of the progression stuff will be folded into the story mode and then if you were playing story mode you wouldn't be able to mess with the biomes but if playing sandbox mode then you could play an all Wasteland map. A lot of open world games have Story Mode, Survival Mode, and Sandbox mode with different rulesets and restrictions. I'm interested to see what they do.

[MechanicalLens]

11 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

Who knows? Maybe a lot of the progression stuff will be folded into the story mode and then if you were playing story mode you wouldn't be able to mess with the biomes but if playing sandbox mode then you could play an all Wasteland map. A lot of open world games have Story Mode, Survival Mode, and Sandbox mode with different rulesets and restrictions. I'm interested to see what they do.

 

I hadn't thought of that possibility, thanks for the insight.

[arramus]

After attempting numerous RWG loadouts, there is a clearly scripted element for World Generation for sure with biome/trader progression ultimately leading to the large cities in the Wasteland. We'll see where this leads...

[Ranzera]

I just figured this issue out for someone on reddit and I have to say after looking at rwgmixer.xml I had myself a little lol about how bad the railroading is getting in this game. I'll put the steps you can take to recreate this yourself (I'm too lazy to make a mod, tho I'm sure one either already exists or will soon).

I uhh, copy pasted this as rich text I guess, hopefully that doesn't bork extremely badly when I hit submit. Good luck everyone else~~~

How I shot city???
 

1) Go to your steam library, right click 7 days to die and click on properties.
2) Go to the Installed Files tab and click browse.
3) This will open a window for the 7 days to die game directory.
4) From here go into the Data folder and then the Config folder aka "blahblah/steamapps/common/7 Days To Die/Data/Config"
5) Open the file RWGMixer.xml. You can use Notepad if you hate yourself, or use a better text editor like Notepad++ or similar. Don't use a word processor like Microsoft Word.
6) From here we're going way way down to line 514, which is the start of the section of code we're interested in. You should see the below:

<township name="oldwest">
    <property name="spawn_trader" value="false"/>
    <property name="spawn_gateway" value="false"/>
    <property name="biomes" value="desert"/>
</township>  
<township name="forest_countrytown">
    <property name="biomes" value="forest"/>
</township>  
<township name="bforest_countrytown">
    <property name="biomes" value="burntforest"/>
</township>  
<township name="bforest_town">
    <property name="outskirt_district" value="rural"/>
    <property name="biomes" value="burntforest"/>
</township>  
<township name="countrytown">
    <property name="biomes" value="desert,snow"/>
</township>  
<township name="town">
    <property name="outskirt_district" value="rural"/>
    <property name="biomes" value="desert,snow"/>
</township>  
<township name="city">
    <property name="outskirt_district" value="rural"/>
    <property name="biomes" value="desert,snow"/>
</township>  
<township name="wasteland_city">
    <property name="outskirt_district" value="rural"/>
    <property name="biomes" value="wasteland"/>
</township>  
<township name="citybig">
    <property name="outskirt_district" value="rural"/>
    <property name="biomes" value="wasteland"/>
</township>

7) Go to the relevant city types to you and add "forest" to them with a comma separating the biome names.
😎 As an example, here is what the city block would look like with the change to add forest

<township name="city">
    <property name="outskirt_district" value="rural"/>
    <property name="biomes" value="desert,forest,snow"/>
</township>  

9) Save the file and you're done.

[MechanicalLens]

32 minutes ago, Ranzera said:

I just figured this issue out for someone on reddit and I have to say after looking at rwgmixer.xml I had myself a little lol about how bad the railroading is getting in this game. I'll put the steps you can take to recreate this yourself (I'm too lazy to make a mod, tho I'm sure one either already exists or will soon).

I uhh, copy pasted this as rich text I guess, hopefully that doesn't bork extremely badly when I hit submit. Good luck everyone else~~~

How I shot city???
 

1) Go to your steam library, right click 7 days to die and click on properties.
2) Go to the Installed Files tab and click browse.
3) This will open a window for the 7 days to die game directory.
4) From here go into the Data folder and then the Config folder aka "blahblah/steamapps/common/7 Days To Die/Data/Config"
5) Open the file RWGMixer.xml. You can use Notepad if you hate yourself, or use a better text editor like Notepad++ or similar. Don't use a word processor like Microsoft Word.
6) From here we're going way way down to line 514, which is the start of the section of code we're interested in. You should see the below:

<township name="oldwest">
    <property name="spawn_trader" value="false"/>
    <property name="spawn_gateway" value="false"/>
    <property name="biomes" value="desert"/>
</township>  
<township name="forest_countrytown">
    <property name="biomes" value="forest"/>
</township>  
<township name="bforest_countrytown">
    <property name="biomes" value="burntforest"/>
</township>  
<township name="bforest_town">
    <property name="outskirt_district" value="rural"/>
    <property name="biomes" value="burntforest"/>
</township>  
<township name="countrytown">
    <property name="biomes" value="desert,snow"/>
</township>  
<township name="town">
    <property name="outskirt_district" value="rural"/>
    <property name="biomes" value="desert,snow"/>
</township>  
<township name="city">
    <property name="outskirt_district" value="rural"/>
    <property name="biomes" value="desert,snow"/>
</township>  
<township name="wasteland_city">
    <property name="outskirt_district" value="rural"/>
    <property name="biomes" value="wasteland"/>
</township>  
<township name="citybig">
    <property name="outskirt_district" value="rural"/>
    <property name="biomes" value="wasteland"/>
</township>

7) Go to the relevant city types to you and add "forest" to them with a comma separating the biome names.
😎 As an example, here is what the city block would look like with the change to add forest

<township name="city">
    <property name="outskirt_district" value="rural"/>
    <property name="biomes" value="desert,forest,snow"/>
</township>  

9) Save the file and you're done.

 

1.0.1 patch: TFP hardcode this file so it cannot be tampered with. 😛

[Ranzera]

Just now, MechanicalLens said:

 

1.0.1 patch: TFP hardcode this file so it cannot be tampered with. 😛

If they were even slightly less mod friendly, I'd be certain that'd actually happen.

[wolfbain5]

part of this is hard coded. central biome for advanced gen and the like

[MechanicalLens]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

 

I don't know the full plan, myself. What I do know is that there will be environmental hazards like you brought up that you won't be able to survive without the necessary gear. There will also be incentives to go to the different biomes. The beginnings of that are what we see with 1.0 where traders are locked to their specific biome so that you must enter all biomes in order to interact with all traders and also the fact that there are no cities in forest but they do start spawning in the burnt forest and upward. Right now the incentive to visit all the traders is pretty minimal despite their specialties but once they add reputation and the story mode is in there will almost certainly be strong reasons to visit every trader at some point.

 

I don't know how they will work outfits into it.

 

I was just watching Capp's latest 1.0 playthrough and apparently TFP have already removed the option of true 1 biome maps. It seems the sliders force all biomes to be present in some form.

[Ranzera]

5 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

I was just watching Capp's latest 1.0 playthrough and apparently TFP have already removed the option of true 1 biome maps. It seems the sliders force all biomes to be present in some form.

If it gets too far out of line, they'll find themselves competing with player made map generators, which imo would be pretty embarrassing for them to have happen *again* at this point. We'll see how close to the sun they feel like flying.

[Rotor]

3 minutes ago, Ranzera said:

 We'll see how close to the sun they feel like flying.

 

You win the forums today for the Icarus reference.

[Roland]

31 minutes ago, Ranzera said:

If it gets too far out of line, they'll find themselves competing with player made map generators, which imo would be pretty embarrassing for them to have happen *again* at this point. We'll see how close to the sun they feel like flying.

 

Competing? What do you mean? They want people to create mods. If they want all five biomes in the game to fit the progression they are doing and somone creates a popular mod that allows 100% wasteland, TFP doesn't lose an imagined competition nor are they embarrassed. 

 

In truth, people are using the 7 Days to Die platform to be creative in exactly the way TFP hoped and planned.

Edited Tuesday at 02:13 AM by Roland (see edit history)

[Ranzera]

Just now, Roland said:

 

Competing? What do you mean? They want people to create mods. If they want all five biomes in the game to fit the progression they are doing and somone creates a popular that allows 100% wasteland and it keeps people playing, TFP doesn't lose an imagined competition nor are they embarrassed. 

 

In truth, people are using the 7 Days to Die platform to be creative in exactly the way they hoped and planned.

Don't pretend that biome usage and player predilection to Forest Biome isn't one of the areas that TFP is lowkey at war with its own player base on. Several staff have commented on these forums talking about how they'd like to see players use the other biomes more. Removing most of the city types as spawnable in the Forest is hilariously on the nose.

So yes, I don't think TFP want player made map gens (internally, they'd never say that publicly) because that takes away their power to railroad players in this area.

As an aside, I am greatly amused that this 1 biome-itis emerged after TFP removed the other player favorite biome, Plains.

[wolfbain5]

well, remember trader spawns are biome based now, an if you dont have all the biomes, trader quest progression will be off

 

[Ranzera]

1 minute ago, wolfbain5 said:

well, remember trader spawns are biome based now, an if you dont have all the biomes, trader quest progression will be off

 

That's probably also in RWGMixer.xml (that's where their spawning has been configured in the past), I just stopped reading the file after I found what to change for the requester.

[Roland]

3 minutes ago, Ranzera said:

Don't pretend that biome usage and player predilection to Forest Biome isn't one of the areas that TFP is lowkey at war with its own player base on.

 

I don't need to pretend. It isn't true outside the confines of your conspiracy theory. I don't deny that they want there to be a progression to being able to survive in each biome and that they want there to be reasons and incentives for players to go all over the world and explore everywhere to the fullest but that is very different than some lowkey war to prevent players from remaining in the forest biome. And even if they decide that they want to force things in the story mode or default vanilla version, it doesn't mean that they are mad if players use mods to play the game differently. That is just ridiculous. If what you say is true, then they would have shut down and put out cease and desist letters to all the overhaul modders for creating completely different experiences from their own vision. On the contrary, they welcome all the overhauls and hope there will be more in the future.

 

9 minutes ago, Ranzera said:

Several staff have commented on these forums talking about how they'd like to see players use the other biomes more.

 

Several? Really? Who?

 

And so what? Commenting that they'd like to see players utilize all areas of the world? The horror....

 

11 minutes ago, Ranzera said:

Removing most of the city types as spawnable in the Forest is hilariously on the nose.

 

Hilariously on the nose or fittingly on the nose? My family has already had a ton of fun leaving the forest for the burnt forest and finding the city and Trader Jen there. On the way we passed a few small town style zones with plenty of POIs for exploration. Nobody is going to starve and lack for quests in the forests but now there is incentive to go to other locations. How many years have people complained that it doesn't matter where you go in the world because everything spawns everywhere and is all the same? So now we have differentiation and reasons to go to new areas and that's hilarious? I'd say....finally.

 

15 minutes ago, Ranzera said:

So yes, I don't think TFP want player made map gens (internally, they'd never say that publicly) because that takes away their power to railroad players in this area.

 

Think this statement through, please. Mods and map generators that undo what TFP has designed do not take away TFP's power to create their vanilla default experience. It just offers an alternative way to play for those that want that. There is no competition and TFP privately nor publicly wants to stop such things from happening. Again, the peaceful existence of overhaul mods completely destroy your argument. If TFP was the type of developer who couldn't stand it if anyone out in the world was playing their game differently than the way they designed it then we wouldn't have any overhaul mods. You are just mistaken in this view.

 

They will make their vanilla game the way they want with progression the way they want it AND they are fine with people overhauling their game to play it differently-- and that includes map generators.

 

20 minutes ago, Ranzera said:

As an aside, I am greatly amused that this 1 biome-itis emerged after TFP removed the other player favorite biome, Plains.

 

Yeah, they did this move 7 years after they removed Plains but at the same time they re-included the Burnt Forest. That is some tight causality there...