Where is this game going?

[Slingblade2040]

We are in the 21st alpha of this game and still no real idea of what late game content means or really what mid game content is, no clear story, out of whack skill tree even after 2 reworks for it, a progression system that's ridiculously out of whack and a shop system aka traders that almost always end up breaking the game due to what they make available for purchase which ends up destroying any kind of progression.

 

It seems as if each alpha after alpha 16 the game has made no progress into where the hell its going or what they even wants this game to be. Are we a survival crafting game or are we a looters shooter now? Do we have rpg elements with class builds or don't we?

[Maxwar]

You make it go where you want with house rules, role play, settings and mods. That is how I always played it. 

If you ask me, In the simplest of words 7dtd is a Sandbox survival game. Those are the two core things that it has always been.

 

 

 

[Khalagar]

I see each alpha update like a Season in an ARPG. You start over from scratch and play all the new content, then wait for the next season to come out.

 

It's honestly a pretty nice system IMO. The weak late game doesn't matter when you start over every so often, and you can try different builds as they get changed.

 

As for the goals, their goal is to get bandits in and get the game to a solid working state, then flag it as gold. Then they will either work on some kind of expansion, or more likely, start working on a 7 Days To Die 2.

 

One of the main issues the devs have atm, is most of their playerbase aren't paying them anything. We all already own the game from one of the million times it was on sale for $7. Adding on to that, the engine is really old at this point and there's so much jank after years of cobbling things together that they likely just want to start mostly fresh for 7 Days 2 and just reuse assets but with a fresh engine.  I don't know if Unreal Engine can do voxel stuff, but if so, this game would look insane with the Unreal Engine 5 level graphics

[hiemfire]

1 hour ago, Maxwar said:

In the simplest of words 7dtd is a Sandbox survival game

Just quoted to underline what I'm laughing at. The "sandbox" is getting narrower and turning into predefined rows of concrete tubes more and more with every alpha.

[Old Crow]

8 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

Just quoted to underline what I'm laughing at. The "sandbox" is getting narrower and turning into predefined rows of concrete tubes more and more with every alpha.

 

"You can play in our sandbox, but you're not allowed to use the castle-shaped bucket.

[Maxwar]

17 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

Just quoted to underline what I'm laughing at. The "sandbox" is getting narrower and turning into predefined rows of concrete tubes more and more with every alpha.

You have no specific goals beside survival. That is why I call it a Sandbox survival, rather than Sandbox crafting or whatever. 

The sandbox aspect is not limited to the default gameplay, the variety of settings and the modability is a huge part of it. 

[Scyris]

6 hours ago, Slingblade2040 said:

We are in the 21st alpha of this game and still no real idea of what late game content means or really what mid game content is, no clear story, out of whack skill tree even after 2 reworks for it, a progression system that's ridiculously out of whack and a shop system aka traders that almost always end up breaking the game due to what they make available for purchase which ends up destroying any kind of progression.

 

It seems as if each alpha after alpha 16 the game has made no progress into where the hell its going or what they even wants this game to be. Are we a survival crafting game or are we a looters shooter now? Do we have rpg elements with class builds or don't we?

 

I don't think TFP even knows what it is at this point. All I notice is more and more sandbox/player choice elements are being taken away each alpha, Big one in A21 was removal of sex t-rex, yes they added it to the weapon/tool lines themselves, but i'd have liked the orignal perk to have remained so you had a choice, you could focus on your main weapon, or get sex t-rex for lower stat costs on everything. But instead of that, they just took away the choice. Could have both ways in and just whichever has the higher value is what takes effect for that specific weapon/tool, and yes the game can do this, as it already does this with the tag system.

 

How I see the game going is basically a forced on rails fps game with building elements. As each alpha seems to shoehorn players into a certain playstyle more and more. in A21, you are forced to loot, and do trader quests more than ever before. I mean I don't mind it personally as I did that anyway, but this pretty much screws anyone who liked to just mine, or just build, their playstyles are basically destroyed in A21. Well not destroyed you can make it work, what some groups do in a21e is decide who is going to learn what and they funnel all mags they find for that, to that one person. Since there is no point to having say 4 people with pistols at lv 10, 11, 7, then say 15. Much better to funnel them all to ONE player to have pistols at 40-43 that can then make better pistols for everyone else. Basically in a MP setting you have to micromanage who learns what now. Its a change players have to adapt too sadly.

3 hours ago, Old Crow said:

 

"You can play in our sandbox, but you're not allowed to use the castle-shaped bucket.

 

Or the moon shaped one, or the triagle shaped one, oh and your not allowed to use the circle one either, here have this zigzag bucket to use its all you get deal with it. -Tfps view on the game these days.

[Scyris]

3 hours ago, Maxwar said:

You have no specific goals beside survival. That is why I call it a Sandbox survival, rather than Sandbox crafting or whatever. 

The sandbox aspect is not limited to the default gameplay, the variety of settings and the modability is a huge part of it. 

 

Yeah but just because the game is modable doesn't give the devs the right to half-ass it as much as they are. ESPECIALLY when the majority of the new stuff in A21 feature wise are literally stolen from mods. Literal only actual unique things are the stabbing/shooting thru partially busted doors, and the fire pipe thing, pretty much everything else like the bird nests/garbage bags poofing on loot? yeah thats been in some mods for years. When I played A21 the first time, I just was like "Wow these guys played darkness falls for all the stuff it feels like they "borrowed" from it" Wish they'd copy something really nice thou like the DF skill system or something. Even the learn by reading system they have was semi-borrowed from undead legacys research system, you'd scrap schematics you don't need for research notes, which you can then turn into books you wanted/need. Its not the exact same but simmlar in a way.

 

My biggest issue with 7dtd is the lack of content, since Alpha 10, we've had the same top tier material of steel, and since radiated zombies were put in we've not really gotten any new tiers. It feels like content wise the game is going no where. Sorry but prettier graphics, and more maze like poi's is not my idea of content, I want actual content, like a tier above steel (titanium seems a popular one) and some zombies above radiated. its why mods like Darkness Falls and Apoc now are so popular, they have multiple tiers for both items AND enemies above vanilla, and if a single person, can put this stuff in the game, TFP has no excuse when they have a entire team. For some reason TFP seems adamant not to add more to the game, they'd rather keep redoing game systems and making them worse each reiteration.IMO 7dtd could have gone gold back in a16.4 if they just fixed the issues with its skill system. Main issue was to make a better stone axe, you had to craft hundreds of them to raise a skill, all it needed was for that to go away. Most people who played thru A16 feels its the best the game has ever been and its been going downhill each alpha since gameplay wise. Though I do like the mod system A17+ had. I don't dislike everything after a16, I just really dislike the skill system and feel it needs a complete redo and to break away from the gated to hell stat system.

 

Also if people keep asking this question the OP does it kinda shows there IS an actual problem, as I've seen it all over since a17 and up hit. Players are confused what 7dtd is supposed to be anymore, as it still seems to have no actual direction, and the devs don't seem to wanna tell us what the plan is, so we are kinda left here confused and wondering.

 

Yes, if you bought the game tfp got your money so they don't really care about you anymore (or at least thats how it feels as they pretty much ignore what the games community wants), but 7dtd is not their only game, people will remember this, and be more hesitate to touch anything from them in the future, I know i'll be much more hesitant to touch a TFP game again, even 7dtd 2, 7dtd2 has to at least have everything the first game does as a minimum or else i'll prob not bother.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Scyris (see edit history)

[LackLustaFilaBusta]

Kinda sad to think this game will have spent 10 years in Early Access come december.

 

[Scyris]

10 minutes ago, LackLustaFilaBusta said:

Kinda sad to think this game will have spent 10 years in Early Access come december.

 

 

It kinda is, most other games are usually gold within a year or 2 of early access, or least all the others I bought into. The problem is tfp keeps redoing systems that do not need to be redone, and they waste entire updates on it. The skill system has been redone at least 4 or 5 (or more) times since I started in a9-10. None of the other early access games have done stuff like this, skill adjustments sure, but they've never completly scrapped a system and redone it for the next update, I've only seen 7dtd do this. Its why the community in general feels that not even the devs know where the game is going anymore, as they seem pretty wishy-washy on so many aspects of it each update.

[LackLustaFilaBusta]

Honestly feels like the devs get in their own heads too much and feel the need to keep changing the same things over and over and that usually ends up being the bulk of each alpha.

[Scyris]

29 minutes ago, LackLustaFilaBusta said:

Honestly feels like the devs get in their own heads too much and feel the need to keep changing the same things over and over and that usually ends up being the bulk of each alpha.

 

TFP is basically making the game they want to play, not the game the players want to play and thats a big part of the problem. The players want something much different than the devs seem to want, the devs used to align with players up to a16, but a17 and up they kinda stoped listening to the playerbase and just do what they want.

[LackLustaFilaBusta]

I get that the fun pimps want to make "their game" but they released an early access game to get our feedback and our funding, but that seems to be worth nothing these days. We playtest the experimentals for bugs, we funded their dream but when it comes to our honest feedback they consider our opinions the minority and continually push back most new content in favor of reworking the same progression and skill systems.

[Old Crow]

Only positive feedback is allowed. Dissenters will be mocked and talked down to.

[Survior]

It's well known that 99% of all gamers agree that every new alpha is the new pinnacle of gaming, those who don't are the vocal minority who want everything to be easy and dumb. Thankfully, nobody listens to the gamers and the devs have their own ideas and don't need player inputs, they will protect us and provide awesome updates.

 

 

 

[Lasher]

5 hours ago, Scyris said:

 

TFP is basically making the game they want to play, not the game the players want to play and thats a big part of the problem. The players want something much different than the devs seem to want, the devs used to align with players up to a16, but a17 and up they kinda stoped listening to the playerbase and just do what they want.

 

Oddly enough it almost seems to be worse that that.

It seems a little like people find ways to play the game that TFP just don't like - so they smack the hell out of whatever mechanic it is to "balance it out"

It just makes no sense.

A good example is the recent addition of flame traps. People started using them in smart ways and include them in their horde bases. What happens? TFP nerf the flame damage - but only to zombies - cos that makes complete sense ofc...

 

I swear to god, if TFP came out one morning to find that the brakes weren't working properly on their car - their solution would be to smash the engine until the brakes could cope with the slower speed. But now the engine is leaking oil - aha! solution! Ban oil! TA-DAHHHH!!!

 

[Survior]

45 minutes ago, Lasher said:

 

It seems a little like people find ways to play the game that TFP just don't like - so they smack the hell out of whatever mechanic it is to "balance it out"

It just makes no sense.

Omg they are subsistence farming! Nerf that!

Omg they are living underground! Nerf that!

Omg they are making too much glue! Nerf that!

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Survior (see edit history)

[Andy Red]

This isn't a story driven game, it's a horde crafting game... and that's what we have been given.

So what if it's still classed as Alpha by status, and that we're now onto the 21st Alpha. We aren't paying by the Alpha - it's free content updates.
Nobody would be complaining if it came out of Alpha status 5 years ago, but then these updates still kept coming out and were just classed as normal updates. It's only the fact that the updates are called 'Alpha' that people are fixating on. Nobody cares about the status at this point - they're updates, they're free, and they (in most cases/most people's views) make the game better.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Andy Red
Spelling (see edit history)

[Lasher]

13 minutes ago, Survior said:

Omg they are subsistence farming! Nerf that!

Omg they are living underground! Nerf that!

Omg they are making too much glue! Nerf that!

 

 

Exactly.

I really don't think this method of "Whack-A-Mole" development is very well planned out...

[Survior]

6 minutes ago, Andy Red said:

This isn't a story driven game, it's a horde crafting game... and that's what we have been given.

So what if it's still classed as Alpha by status, and that we're now onto the 21st Alpha. We aren't paying by the Alpha - it's free content updates.
Nobody would be complaining if it came out of Alpha status 5 years ago, but then these updates still kept coming out and were just classed as normal updates. It's only the fact that the updates are called 'Alpha' that people are fixating on. Nobody cares about the status at this point - they're updates, they're free, and they (in most cases/most people's views) make the game better.

 

I think in most peoples views it's more like 2 steps forward and at least one big step backward.

 

 

[LackLustaFilaBusta]

1 hour ago, Andy Red said:

This isn't a story driven game, it's a horde crafting game... and that's what we have been given.

So what if it's still classed as Alpha by status, and that we're now onto the 21st Alpha. We aren't paying by the Alpha - it's free content updates.
Nobody would be complaining if it came out of Alpha status 5 years ago, but then these updates still kept coming out and were just classed as normal updates. It's only the fact that the updates are called 'Alpha' that people are fixating on. Nobody cares about the status at this point - they're updates, they're free, and they (in most cases/most people's views) make the game better.

It's not the fact that's its still in alpha its that every alpha they push back stuff they promised would be coming in order to reorganize the same couple of systems over and over again. They waste so much time making balances that they eventually end up redoing anyway in the next alpha.

[Rince]

11 hours ago, Scyris said:

 

TFP is basically making the game they want to play, not the game the players want to play and thats a big part of the problem. The players want something much different than the devs seem to want, the devs used to align with players up to a16, but a17 and up they kinda stoped listening to the playerbase and just do what they want.

Since when we are an hive mind?

[Andy Red]

15 hours ago, LackLustaFilaBusta said:

It's not the fact that's its still in alpha its that every alpha they push back stuff they promised would be coming in order to reorganize the same couple of systems over and over again. They waste so much time making balances that they eventually end up redoing anyway in the next alpha.

You're fixating on 2 - 3 parts of the update, out of hundreds of other new and improved things that were also included.

Let's just ignore the hundreds of new items and décor pieces. Loads of new POI's. Old POI being overhauled. World graphics improvements. New quest type. New hazard type. Huge improvements to the RWG output. Extra admin abilities. Tons of fixes.

[n2n1]

This game is moving to the mobile market. Simplicity, accessibility, money   
 

[Scyris]

6 hours ago, Andy Red said:

You're fixating on 2 - 3 parts of the update, out of hundreds of other new and improved things that were also included.

Let's just ignore the hundreds of new items and décor pieces. Loads of new POI's. Old POI being overhauled. World graphics improvements. New quest type. New hazard type. Huge improvements to the RWG output. Extra admin abilities. Tons of fixes.

 

New poi's is not what the game needs, nor is better deco and graphics, it needs better gameplay and mechanics, and this is where tfp is basically putting no effort into. The new quest type is just a clear quest with more enemies in it, its not that special. As for the RWG "improvements" I am on the fence, the road smoothing is nice, but if I had to be honest I prefered a20 Rwg due to the trader's location in a town. I like to base beside the trader and well, in A21 I often have to generate 8+ maps before I find one where the trader isin't surrounded on all sides by poi's for hundreds of meters. I also like my first trader to be in a big town, even more so in A21 where its a royal pain to get the higher tier vehicles.