Vending machines make dew collector useless?

[Riamus]

The fact that vending machines have drinks is less of a problem for whether or not you might want a dew collector as getting stacks of 10 water as quest rewards repeatedly for tier 1 quests.  If you really want to, you can spam tier 1 quests every day even after you're doing tier 5 quests and probably have way more water than you know what to do with.  You don't always get that reward but it's often enough to be a bit unbalanced.

[OgreSlayeR]

On Day 2 I had over 30 water by just finding Murky Water in loot and finding a Cooking Pot Day 1. I feel like amount of Murky Water I'm finding in loot is more of a problem cause I haven't need Vending Machines or the new Dew Collector.

 

Definitely feels like the opposite of what they were intending.

Edited June 13, 2023 by OgreSlayeR (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

12 minutes ago, OgreSlayeR said:

On Day 2 I had over 30 water by just finding Murky Water in loot and finding a cooking pot Day 1. I feel like amount of Murky Water I'm finding in loot is more problem cause I haven't need Vending Machines or the new Dew Collector.

 

Definitely feels like the opposite of what they were intending.

This only works as long as you keep looting. When you stop looting, the stash dwindles. That is the change. Before, you got back empty jars that you could fill up indefinitely.

[OgreSlayeR]

24 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

This only works as long as you keep looting. When you stop looting, the stash dwindles. That is the change. Before, you got back empty jars that you could fill up indefinitely.

Yeah, I mean with how I play I am always looting and questing. It isn't till around the day 7 horde that I stop and start to make a horde base and stop looting, so by then I will have a ton of water (especially if I start pumping out a bunch of dew collectors).  It just felt like I had a bit too much by Day 2 , but I suppose if one couldn't find a cooking pot and had bad RNG it might make it a bit harder.

 

In any case I like the change in general especially the byproduct of not having glass jars take up inventory space when drinking and also food cans. It was just busy work of throwing them out my inventory before.

[RipClaw]

2 hours ago, OgreSlayeR said:

It just felt like I had a bit too much by Day 2 , but I suppose if one couldn't find a cooking pot and had bad RNG it might make it a bit harder.

RNG is one thing and the other is how experienced the player is. I saw a stream of the ct magazine at the weekend. That's a German computer magazine and the players didn't seem very experienced to me and often had to struggle with dysentery.

 

Edited June 13, 2023 by RipClaw (see edit history)

[Slingblade2040]

7 hours ago, RipClaw said:

Looting is not my favorite thing to do. And the quests allow me to fulfill my looting quota with set tasks. Otherwise I turn to my favorite activity and that is building.
 

That right there explains the problem. People basically now don't want to go loot unless it's tied to a quest then complain about not finding things.  It's like the pimps turned this more into a building simulator instead of a survival game. 

 

If folks want to just build then go into creative mode and play this like minecraft. End of the day this is a survival game and it's easy to see why alot of the overhaul mods are more popular than the vanilla version of this game.

[RipClaw]

21 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:

If folks want to just build then go into creative mode and play this like minecraft. End of the day this is a survival game and it's easy to see why alot of the overhaul mods are more popular than the vanilla version of this game.

Survival game can mean a lof of things. There are survival games where there is almost no looting at all.

 

Your idea of a survival game seems to be someone wandering around abandoned towns looking for something usable in the trash. To me, survival is gradually building up self-sufficiency with the resources you mine and the items you craft.

 

[minisith]

2 hours ago, Slingblade2040 said:

That right there explains the problem. People basically now don't want to go loot unless it's tied to a quest then complain about not finding things.  It's like the pimps turned this more into a building simulator instead of a survival game. 

 

If folks want to just build then go into creative mode and play this like minecraft. End of the day this is a survival game and it's easy to see why alot of the overhaul mods are more popular than the vanilla version of this game.

Survive the zombie attack.   Survival.  You can give your opinion on what survival is but it is just your opinion.   Wait for mods.   It is ok to not like vanilla.   I feel that way about Skyrim.   It is what it is and you can not control it no matter how loud you get about it.   I love the building in this game and the survival part of it.  Too much survival and it gets to boring for me as much of that stuff is fluff to me.

[Riamus]

4 hours ago, Slingblade2040 said:

It's like the pimps turned this more into a building simulator instead of a survival game. 

It is funny that the opposite opinion has been being posted everywhere lately.  You think they're catering to the builders and the builders think they're catering to the looters/questers.  Everyone thinks TFP is against the community with a fixation on "the community" being those who play just like them. 

 

Honestly, I think the game is pretty balanced for the different aspects of the game.  If I want to scavenge and loot, I can without any issues other than possibly too much or too little of something (tweaks are going to happen that can fix this).  If I want to build and mine, I can do so without any problems.  I do this often in mid or late game.  I always do a base and horde base early game and expand them as I get more resources but mid to late game I'll start building various things just for fun because I've done enough killing and want a change.  It works fine.  And now crafting is more valuable even if it still seems a bit unnecessary in some cases.  Overall, it works well for everyone.  The ones who don't think so are usually those who want the game tailored to their own playstyle rather than being a mix of multiple genres and that's not TFPs goal.

[BFT2020]

3 hours ago, Riamus said:

It is funny that the opposite opinion has been being posted everywhere lately.  You think they're catering to the builders and the builders think they're catering to the looters/questers.  Everyone thinks TFP is against the community with a fixation on "the community" being those who play just like them. 

 

Actually they are just against you, did you not see that when you were getting all those crits?  😉

[Riamus]

13 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

 

Actually they are just against you, did you not see that when you were getting all those crits?  😉

Touche! 😁

[Vaeliorin]

15 hours ago, OgreSlayeR said:

On Day 2 I had over 30 water by just finding Murky Water in loot and finding a Cooking Pot Day 1. I feel like amount of Murky Water I'm finding in loot is more of a problem cause I haven't need Vending Machines or the new Dew Collector.

 

Definitely feels like the opposite of what they were intending.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I've got 3 Dew Collectors, and I'm still not even breaking even on water, and heaven forbid I should want to make some glue.  I'm probably going to end up with at least 9 of the huge, ugly (not that they aren't well made, I just find them aesthetically displeasing) things.

[Riamus]

42 minutes ago, Vaeliorin said:

the huge, ugly (not that they aren't well made, I just find them aesthetically displeasing) things.

I have to agree.  I like the look of one.  But they expect you to have many and that looks really bad 

[Slingblade2040]

6 hours ago, Riamus said:

It is funny that the opposite opinion has been being posted everywhere lately.  You think they're catering to the builders and the builders think they're catering to the looters/questers.  Everyone thinks TFP is against the community with a fixation on "the community" being those who play just like them. 

This game has been dumbed down alot to cater to certain players and not playstyles. It's no coincidence that overhaul mods are becoming more popular due to the pimps bad ideas.

 

Farming used to need water near it and that's gone, same with the fertilizer, hell farming isn't even needed in single player. The amount of restrictions you need to put on yourself to not use basic survival mechanics shows how far this game has strayed from survival. They might as well remove the need for food and water if they keep this nonsense and turn it into what GNA horde mode is.

 

Anyways this isn't about base building anyways. It's about how dumb of an idea the dew collector is and how it's shouldn't have been implemented

[Riamus]

15 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:

This game has been dumbed down alot to cater to certain players and not playstyles. It's no coincidence that overhaul mods are becoming more popular due to the pimps bad ideas.

 

Farming used to need water near it and that's gone, same with the fertilizer, hell farming isn't even needed in single player. The amount of restrictions you need to put on yourself to not use basic survival mechanics shows how far this game has strayed from survival. They might as well remove the need for food and water if they keep this nonsense and turn it into what GNA horde mode is.

 

Anyways this isn't about base building anyways. It's about how dumb of an idea the dew collector is and how it's shouldn't have been implemented

Remember that survival is only one part of the game.  This is not a survival game.  It is a survival, crafting, looting, zombie killing, mining, etc. game (I don't have the actual list of the multiple genres this game is in front of me, so that's just my list).  Many people want a single aspect of the game to be the focus but that isn't what this game is.  It is a combination of multiple genres, allowing for a variety of different playstyles.  It is not a game that is meant to perfectly balance all playstyles in order to make everyone equal like in many multiplayer-only games and MMOs.  Each option has is strengths and weaknesses and that is okay.  No one's playstyle is more valid than anyone else's and they aren't going to cater to just one.

 

Yes, things in the game have changed as they have gone from placeholder mechanics to finished or almost finished mechanics and from changes due to seeing what works and what doesn't work and simply what they have learned over the years.  That is what you get when you choose to play early access.  The game will change over time.  If that isn't something you like, there are other games to play until it gets released as gold and you can then see if it is the type of game you like.

 

Considering this game has a higher average play time for people than most other games besides MMOs and certain extremely popular games (and for a lower cost in most cases), it seems they are doing a good job overall.  I don't like every change but they aren't designing the game for me specifically.  Some people want a certain thing and some do not.  They will either add that or not and in either case, they will upset part of the community.  So they choose to make the game they want rather than trying to make the game based on each person's wishes.  That is a smart choice.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Vaeliorin]

I'm up to 5 Dew Collectors, and I think I'm finally making a profit, water-wise.  I'll have to play a few more days to know for certain, but my beverage stash has started trending up instead of down, though that could be based on finding drinks in loot (though the only loot I got on days 6/7 was from loot bags and the air drop.)

[Riamus]

43 minutes ago, Vaeliorin said:

I'm up to 5 Dew Collectors, and I think I'm finally making a profit, water-wise.  I'll have to play a few more days to know for certain, but my beverage stash has started trending up instead of down, though that could be based on finding drinks in loot (though the only loot I got on days 6/7 was from loot bags and the air drop.)

Well... considering murky water isn't used for anything but making regular water now, I just took a bunch of our looted murky water and started it boiling.  So I'll have over 40 boiled water for two of us on day 5.  I could have done this sooner but am not used to not using murky water for other things yet and so hadn't considered boiling it earlier.  We do have 2 dew collectors and they are handy but there is plenty of murky water in loot if you're questing or scavenging regularly to cover drinking needs, even without a dew collector, imo.  I think the main need for dew collectors will come from cooking and crafting glue and any other recipes that need water.  But for drinking, I don't think they are really all that necessary.

[pApA^LeGBa]

Having played a few ingame days in MP Coop now, i can say the dew collector is far from beeing worthless.

 

@Slingblade2040 Go and play some MP Coop and try to craft for 5 people. We have a constant shortage on water with dew collectors. Only 3 of them until now but they are far from useless. They are a must have.

 

Vending machines don´t restock daily anymore and the one at our trader had 1 water to buy and 2 water on day 4 at restock.

Edited June 14, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Aldranon]

On 6/11/2023 at 9:22 PM, Maharin said:

 

I've played most of my A20 time with no traders.  For me they make the game far less enjoyable.  So I'd be modding in a recipe for them and/or adding them to the loot tables (and for everything else that is trader-only).

 

I cant think of a challenging "homemade" Water Filter: (10 cloth 20 plastic, 20 coal)?  Would making that it has a durability and can be "repaired" with some coal and cloth be even better?  (Edit:  Actually, the whole Water Filter thing is currently a critical or a nothing thing.  No middle ground and the below might be the answer.)

 

Maybe if it needed coal dust (instead of just coal) to be made only at a workstation (edit: or even a Cement Mixer as it grinds rock to sand.  Keeping that theme going), is starting to sound more interesting to me.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Aldranon (see edit history)

[Vaeliorin]

10 hours ago, Riamus said:

Well... considering murky water isn't used for anything but making regular water now, I just took a bunch of our looted murky water and started it boiling.  So I'll have over 40 boiled water for two of us on day 5.  I could have done this sooner but am not used to not using murky water for other things yet and so hadn't considered boiling it earlier.  We do have 2 dew collectors and they are handy but there is plenty of murky water in loot if you're questing or scavenging regularly to cover drinking needs, even without a dew collector, imo.  I think the main need for dew collectors will come from cooking and crafting glue and any other recipes that need water.  But for drinking, I don't think they are really all that necessary.

Yeah, I have been too, but I haven't looted that much murky water, especially considering I looted nothing day 6/7 since I was building my horde base.  I seem to be going through 10-12 red tea a day (never really paid attention in previous alphas) so I'm going to want to get another 4-5 dew collectors at least so I have enough for glue production.

 

Getting the magazine to allow me to make mineral water will probably be a huge boon, since it (at least in previous alphas) gives so much hydration per water.

[Greymantle]

On 6/10/2023 at 1:19 PM, Slingblade2040 said:

So far water doesn't seem to be an issue and after watching 4 different streamers for about a total of like 5 or so hours I don't see what was the point in this whole rework around it.

 

With vending machines and the trader what exactly makes the dew collector worth crafting? Aside from a possible multi-player use I guess and even then that really limits its use.  Just seems the addition of vending machines really killed the survival aspect of this game and maybe it's time the pimps removed them.

 TFP seems to think we all love traders and everything to do with them.

[Riamus]

8 minutes ago, Greymantle said:

 TFP seems to think we all love traders and everything to do with them.

I've never found much need for them.  People can use them as much as they like.  If I really must get something and can't find it, I'll buy it.  But otherwise I rarely buy anything from the traders except solar since that is the only place to get it without a mod.  Late game I might buy stuff just to spend the huge amounts of money I have but not because I actually have any need to do so.

[Greymantle]

I remove the traders completely, they don't exist in my world. With the changes in this version, I have to pass or move to mods to fix this mess. The problem is, I have a bad feeling the modders are going to take a lot longer to fix this than previous versions.

[Riamus]

The only thing you need to change if you don't have traders is to add the filter to loot tables.  If you don't want to use the dew collector, you could instead change the loot tables to offer more drinks.  Not really a big deal.  And I'm sure you will see mods for such things within a week or two if you don't want to make those changes yourself.

[BFT2020]

<insertAfter xpath="//lootgroup[@name='groupDewCollectorLoot01']/item[@name='workstationSkillMagazine']">

 <item name="resourceWaterFilter" loot_prob_template="low"/>

</insertAfter>

 

That's all you need to improve the chances of finding the filter in a collapsed dew collector in the world.  This is about a 10% chance each time you loot one.

 

Changing low to medLow will improve the odds to 17% while med will improve the odds to 22%.

 

So unless I made some minor mistake in my coding, doesn't take a lot of effort or time to make those changes.