Glass Jars Question, A21

[Riamus]

2 hours ago, theFlu said:

The post he was replying to contained for example "people are only complaining because..." "I bet 90% of the complainers...".

So, umm, take it up with that guy? That was you btw

 

You've seen me argue about this endlessly, from your list I 'care' about the second; the third is relevant _as the problem_: make the crafting not depend on duct tape > glue > water, at whichever step, and you can free up the lakes again. I fail to see why the crafting chain needs to depend and be strictly limited by h2o, in this fashion in the least.

Ok, so a somewhat fair point.  However, both sentences are tied together regarding whether people are just upset because of glue and the second states that I'd be willing to bet, which means that I know I could be wrong and that it's just a guess, but that I believe it is most likely correct.  That's a different thing from stating it as fact by saying "we are upset" because of whatever.  You can use another example... I've said various forms of the game being changed to 1.0 instead of A22 because of Sony/Microsoft requirements for console to be released.  I've said probably and likely and I think.  Probably some other things that all show that I'm making an assumption that may be wrong and I acknowledge that it isn't a proven fact.  But when you say "we" in such a way, you are essentially saying that you have discussed it with everyone included in the word "we" (in this case, everyone who is upset that jars were removed) and that everyone has the same reason for being upset (containers).  No suggestion of it being an assumption (though obviously it is and would be incorrect considering there are variety of reasons people have given) or that it isn't factual.  So yes, I somewhat did the same thing and I agree I should watch how I say things, but it is still a different thing... a stated assumption or belief versus a statement of fact for an entire group of people.

 

Anyhow, it doesn't matter.  I had just seen a number of posts recently similar to this, that suggest everyone feels the same way as the poster or everyone who doesn't like something feels the same way as the poster or similar.  Just bugged me. 

 

As far as water goes, I've said in other posts that there could be other options.  But I don't think bringing jars back is a good option and they have said that they won't, so it doesn't really matter to suggest that.  I've said that the increased duct tape (and therefore glue and therefore water) costs for items that was done in A21 were pretty ridiculous.  I won't even build a drone higher than tier 1 on principle because of it and will only do that if I am having really bad luck finding one.  I think there are many options to make the water challenge more difficult without it being because of crafting.  But since I don't think anything is changing and I don't craft much anyhow, it has very little effect on me and so I'm not going to spend a lot of time trying to offer a variety of suggestions.  But for those who are interested in seeing some change here, the better option (as I know you know) is to provide constructive feedback and possible suggestions that can be done within the framework and plan of TFP.  There have been numerous rants and complaints and name calling relating to water (most of it a year ago when this was actually a new thing) but only a small number of people have offered real constructive feedback and ways to make it work better without bringing back jars and without significant and time consuming changes that just aren't likely to happen this late in the development process.  The people who give good constructive feedback and usable suggestions are the ones who are most likely to talk TFP into some kind of changes.  Posts that are just rants and complaining and such are far less likely to generate any change.

 

If someone tells a dev, "I hate what you did," the dev's likely thought would be okay, that's fine... others do and we have a reason for it.  And then just end it there.  On the other hand, a person who tells a dev, "I hate what you did but understand you have a reason that you've given but I think you can accomplish you reason a different way and here it is and why I think it is better" would be more likely to get a dev to think that maybe that suggestion would be a good option and to at least consider the possibility and if it would be worth looking into further.  One option ends the conversation, while the other creates potential for the conversation to lead somewhere.

[theFlu]

1 hour ago, Riamus said:

I've said probably and likely and I think.

I've used those too, a lot. Still tend to, but often times find them pointless anyway; a reader will (mis-)read you any way they want anyway. So I try to spend my time clarifying my actual point instead of coating it with language-padding.

 

Props for taking the criticism

[zztong]

10 hours ago, Verdigriss said:

Do you all really not realize how insane this sounds?

 

Yes. I lobbied against it a year ago. I was not persuasive. I modded my solo game and moved on.

[Kartan]

8 hours ago, Riamus said:

Why is it people want to assume they know what other people mean or want?  *Maybe* everyone complaining about jars are upset about the exact same thing.  But from all the many posts about water (and there are many), you can see that there are a variety of different reasons that different people have for wanting (or not wanting) jars.  Better to just say that it's what you want rather than claiming that it's what everyone wants.

 

Here are just some of the more common reasons that some people are upset based on the many posts on the topic:

 

• It isn't realistic for jars to disappear.
• It isn't realistic that you can't carry water from a water source.
• There is too much grinding to get enough water for making all the glue that people need, especially on a large MP game.
• You need too many dew collectors to produce enough water.

 

So if a response to someone relates to one of these things (such as that all other empty containers aren't represented either -- point 1 above), then it is a valid response even if it doesn't answer your own personal reason for not liking it.  And remember that you're replying to a thread that is over a year old and things have changed since then.  Yes, still no jars (they aren't coming back, so no point being upset about it), but the dew collectors are improved quite a lot since they were added in A21.  It doesn't fix the realism, but this game isn't a simulator and gameplay will trump realism.  It does fix the third and fourth items - one dew collector with all mods installed per person is generally enough unless you're doing a lot of crafting and then maybe you'll want 2 or 3 per person.  So not much of a grind to loot a couple dew collectors.  Open and choose take all and move on.  Takes less than a second.

 

In the end, jars won't return.  You can adapt to the new situation, even if you don't like it, or you can use a mod to change it (if not on console).  You can spend a lot of time writing a lot of complaints about it, but it won't change anything and you could use that time for other things.

Lmao the issue is we have bodies of water and they want us to run away from them to houses to loot for dirty water instead of being able to utilize the land like we were previously able to and like every other survival game manages to do. Very simple. If people have issues crafting or whatever that’s a different problem. And crazy how you think this is the final version of the game set in stone as if things won’t change going forward bahahah, been like 10 years since I’ve played an updated version, anything is possible. So yeah voicing my opinion in the forum page of the game im playing is a viable option for me to do, you can ignore what I have to say or quit wasting your time writing because things won’t change and go do something better with your time lmao

17 hours ago, Riamus said:

So this old thread was resurrected again?  Fun.

 

Not everything has to make logical sense in a game.  There are design choices that are made for gameplay reasons that trump realism.  You can still drink water from a water source.  You just can't carry it around.  Water was far too easy to get with jars.  I would have 100s in the first couple of days just from looting.  You could then fill those in a few seconds and never need water again for a very long time.  Nothing good about that, regardless of any realism.  I wasn't really a fan of the dew collector choice when it first came out, but they've improved it in 1.0.  You no longer need to buy a part to craft it and you have the option to buy and install 3 mods to make it much better.  The current version of dew collectors works really well, imo.  Could there be other options?  Sure.  Could some be better?  Probably.  But this is what we have, so rather than beating a dead horse over what has been in the game for a year already, just learn the new system and enjoy the game.  Being upset over it will just make the game less fun.  Even if you don't like it, accepting that it is how it is will make the game more enjoyable for you.  Just my two cents.

Every broken workstation in the game (except dew collectors) has a good chance of giving you forge ahead magazines.  See a construction area?  Look for a cement mixer.  Look through garages and you'll likely find some workbenches.  These are some of the easiest ways to find forge ahead magazines.  But every trader has one of each broken workstation (except dew collectors), so you're almost guaranteed to get at least one forge ahead magazine from any trader, and potentially up to 4.

You can read! what you just expected everyone from console to keep up to date with the pc news? Lmao and it was important enough to merge into and actual thread about water jars 😂

10 hours ago, Javabean867 said:

You have all the water you can slurp up from the lake/stream/ditchpool.  What are you talking about?

Building dew collectors is the first thing you learn from reading the workbench magazines.  Those are found all over the world.  How could you be on day 6 without reading even 1 of those books?  Then you learn how to make a forge, workbench, etc.  It is easy, simple step that you are actively playing against.  Do you realize how crazy you sound?  "what do you mean i need a lockpick to open a locked safe???????????" or "grass should just teleport itself into my backpack" or "what do you mean i need to hold a button down to move????"  please, you spend more time being upset over glass jars not being in the game, then clicking 2 buttons.  1 to search, and 1 to read and then you can make dew collectors and your water needs will start to be handled.

 

He’s not the one who made this post lmao. I’m the one on day 6 without the forge you’re replying to the wrong dude. Do you realize how crazy you sound???

[Kartan]

5 hours ago, Riamus said:

Ok, so a somewhat fair point.  However, both sentences are tied together regarding whether people are just upset because of glue and the second states that I'd be willing to bet, which means that I know I could be wrong and that it's just a guess, but that I believe it is most likely correct.  That's a different thing from stating it as fact by saying "we are upset" because of whatever.  You can use another example... I've said various forms of the game being changed to 1.0 instead of A22 because of Sony/Microsoft requirements for console to be released.  I've said probably and likely and I think.  Probably some other things that all show that I'm making an assumption that may be wrong and I acknowledge that it isn't a proven fact.  But when you say "we" in such a way, you are essentially saying that you have discussed it with everyone included in the word "we" (in this case, everyone who is upset that jars were removed) and that everyone has the same reason for being upset (containers).  No suggestion of it being an assumption (though obviously it is and would be incorrect considering there are variety of reasons people have given) or that it isn't factual.  So yes, I somewhat did the same thing and I agree I should watch how I say things, but it is still a different thing... a stated assumption or belief versus a statement of fact for an entire group of people.

 

Anyhow, it doesn't matter.  I had just seen a number of posts recently similar to this, that suggest everyone feels the same way as the poster or everyone who doesn't like something feels the same way as the poster or similar.  Just bugged me. 

 

As far as water goes, I've said in other posts that there could be other options.  But I don't think bringing jars back is a good option and they have said that they won't, so it doesn't really matter to suggest that.  I've said that the increased duct tape (and therefore glue and therefore water) costs for items that was done in A21 were pretty ridiculous.  I won't even build a drone higher than tier 1 on principle because of it and will only do that if I am having really bad luck finding one.  I think there are many options to make the water challenge more difficult without it being because of crafting.  But since I don't think anything is changing and I don't craft much anyhow, it has very little effect on me and so I'm not going to spend a lot of time trying to offer a variety of suggestions.  But for those who are interested in seeing some change here, the better option (as I know you know) is to provide constructive feedback and possible suggestions that can be done within the framework and plan of TFP.  There have been numerous rants and complaints and name calling relating to water (most of it a year ago when this was actually a new thing) but only a small number of people have offered real constructive feedback and ways to make it work better without bringing back jars and without significant and time consuming changes that just aren't likely to happen this late in the development process.  The people who give good constructive feedback and usable suggestions are the ones who are most likely to talk TFP into some kind of changes.  Posts that are just rants and complaining and such are far less likely to generate any change.

 

If someone tells a dev, "I hate what you did," the dev's likely thought would be okay, that's fine... others do and we have a reason for it.  And then just end it there.  On the other hand, a person who tells a dev, "I hate what you did but understand you have a reason that you've given but I think you can accomplish you reason a different way and here it is and why I think it is better" would be more likely to get a dev to think that maybe that suggestion would be a good option and to at least consider the possibility and if it would be worth looking into further.  One option ends the conversation, while the other creates potential for the conversation to lead somewhere.

People have posted multiple suggestions like an expensive water skin you need to craft or rare canteens. Not hard to scroll through and see a couple viable suggestions. And again lmao it’s extremely simple: survival game requires me to be hydrated. I can no longer transport water because the jars were an issue. Instead of making better containers that make sense in the games economy, the whole system was scrapped and we’re left with looting houses for dirty water instead of utilizing the rivers/lakes around us. Any other issues people had crafting glue or making too many containers whatever: THATS A SEPARATE ISSUE!

22 minutes ago, zztong said:

 

Yes. I lobbied against it a year ago. I was not persuasive. I modded my solo game and moved on.

It’s so simple idk how these devs fail to understand 😂🤣 survival game wants me to get water. But not from the lakes anymore! Cause people were abusing the JARS so we removed all the WATER MECHANICS lmao. Craftable/lootable containers that make economic sense instead of glass jars you can pump out by the 100’s? No it’s obviously the CONTAINERS that were the problem we can’t let people have containers!! And they think it has to do with other things instead of the illogical fact that I simply can’t bring water with me unless I loot it as a “unit” from a house lmao

[BFT2020]

On 7/27/2024 at 9:02 AM, Kartan said:

It’s so simple idk how these devs fail to understand 😂🤣 survival game wants me to get water. But not from the lakes anymore! Cause people were abusing the JARS so we removed all the WATER MECHANICS lmao. Craftable/lootable containers that make economic sense instead of glass jars you can pump out by the 100’s? No it’s obviously the CONTAINERS that were the problem we can’t let people have containers!! And they think it has to do with other things instead of the illogical fact that I simply can’t bring water with me unless I loot it as a “unit” from a house lmao

 

Probably because you are missing a fundamental element that the developers are working towards - all the criteria for a mechanic

 

If one of the top criteria's for containers was no empty containers in game, then having glass jars violates that criteria.  So then when they are working on the water mechanic for crafting, they have to look at both what is allowed or what isn't.

 

Having empty containers to fill up at ponds / lakes / rivers?

• Violates the no empty containers criteria

Use existing sources of water in game to support crafting - traders, loot

• workable
• Potential balance issue for large groups needing a lot of water for crafting

 

Make crafting recipe - snowballs into dirty water

• workable
• Do we want to force players to travel to the snow biome and just bring back stacks of snowballs?
• What if they don't know where that biome is?

 

Make a new workstation that generates water over time

• Current iteration

 

And why does "logic" only apply when a person wants a specific item in game?  Is it logical that your survivor can carry around the weight of items you can put in their inventory?  Can vehicles even move with the weight of items you can put them into the storage?  Heck, I never heard of 7 days to die being described as a survival simulator game, so things that exist in real life are not necessary going to exist in this game.

On 7/26/2024 at 2:12 PM, Kartan said:

Yeah I missed the magazine at the traders’ forge, still ridiculous I have to find a magazine at this dudes forge to be able to learn how to make dew collectors to then wait on dirty water as opposed to utilizing the bodies of water on the map. I mean what is this? Dune spice wars??

 

Or you simply can just loot dirty water when you go through POIs and even trash that is laying around...or buy it from the trader with coins or buy it out of the vending machines with coin.

 

You are not limited to just dew collectors to obtaining water in this game.

[theFlu]

5 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

Having empty containers to fill up at ponds / lakes / rivers?

• Violates the no empty containers criteria

Add in a new "spawn a unit of murky water" -mechanic, instead of straight up just drinking it. Doesn't violate the no empty jars rule.

[4sheetzngeegles]

This is an offbeat view of the circumstance. The game still has jars and it doesn't.
It just does not have empty jars, as a visual representation. Those are in the ether,
waiting to be. Proof that there are still jars is that they stack by 10. Can be stacked
in increments of 1 and can be combined with other elements to make better drinks. As long
as they have a positive unit of measure assigned to it. That prompted me to travel to the desert
early on.

 

When the water adjustments first started, I had already been clearing my water.xml, so
no lakes or rivers or ponds or puddles; and found other sources pools, towers, north, etc.
But I had more terrain and pois. Then snow was removed from the equation.

 

When the jar is a jar but not when it's empty situation started. I went to every poi
and raided kitchens and toilets. Mostly from the outside or from the roof down.

 

Then I found that lucky looter, oft times got me a water filtration mod in upper tier
POI's, and a lot more murky water vs toilet paper.

 

Then dew collectors were introduced, so day one I have two units of water and i use the trader
to help get 2 collectors. I just see an Icon and a number now.

[BFT2020]

3 hours ago, theFlu said:

Add in a new "spawn a unit of murky water" -mechanic, instead of straight up just drinking it. Doesn't violate the no empty jars rule.

 

That is true.  There are several ways they can go about it, they decided to add a new workbench to the Forge Ahead series instead.

[theFlu]

6 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

There are several ways they can go about it

 

Indeed; but the guy was wanting to get water from the lake. "No jars" doesn't prevent that. Something else does. (Going minimalist, as everything's been said )

[BFT2020]

12 hours ago, theFlu said:

 

Indeed; but the guy was wanting to get water from the lake. "No jars" doesn't prevent that. Something else does. (Going minimalist, as everything's been said )

 

One issue with that method though is that a player can just simply spam E to generate a jar of murky water.  Makes it easier for players to mass collect water at the beginning of the game.

 

I understand that a counterpoint at the time was a timed delay, but I could image people then complaining about an "artificial" wait time to collect water.

 

I feel what they have done is a good compromise and we have seen them take feedback to improve on it (mods added to the dew collector to speed it up and double stack size, filter not being required at the start to craft one).

[Javabean867]

16 hours ago, theFlu said:

Add in a new "spawn a unit of murky water" -mechanic, instead of straight up just drinking it. Doesn't violate the no empty jars rule.

sounds like the perfect idea for your very own mod.  

[theFlu]

49 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

I could image people then complaining about an "artificial" wait time to collect water.

Wouldn't be the first 20-sec timer TFP wants us to stare at...

 

42 minutes ago, Javabean867 said:

sounds like the perfect idea for your very own mod.  

Sounds like a great discussion for the mods-section of the forum:
https://community.7daystodie.com/forum/22-game-modification/

[zztong]

1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:

One issue with that method though is that a player can just simply spam E to generate a jar of murky water.  Makes it easier for players to mass collect water at the beginning of the game.

 

I understand that a counterpoint at the time was a timed delay, but I could image people then complaining about an "artificial" wait time to collect water.

 

I feel what they have done is a good compromise and we have seen them take feedback to improve on it (mods added to the dew collector to speed it up and double stack size, filter not being required at the start to craft one).

 

I use a 6 second delay. I also restrict stacking of murky water to 10. I also give Boiled Water a 5% chance of dysentery to draw out the water issue longer. This means a larger investment of effort in making tea during the early game if I want to avoid dysentery. Only Pure Mineral Water is truly safe, and I change it so that it can only be made at a Chemistry Station.

 

If I wanted to do a "water run" to gather 100 water, I'd spend an hour and I'd have to clear out enough space in my inventory. In other words, I don't just swing by a ditch on my way back to base and gather a bunch of water, as if it were a "survival convenience store." I either build a base close to water (a rational survival decision) or I take time away from clearing POIs, kind of like harvesting food.

 

1 hour ago, Javabean867 said:

sounds like the perfect idea for your very own mod.  

 

I have one that I use in solo games. Folks are welcome to use it...

 

https://github.com/brucezztong/ZZTong.7D2D.Mods/tree/main/ZZTong-Water

Edited July 29 by zztong (see edit history)

[Krougal]

57 minutes ago, zztong said:

 

I use a 6 second delay. I also restrict stacking of murky water to 10. I also give Boiled Water a 5% chance of dysentery to draw out the water issue longer. This means a larger investment of effort in making tea during the early game if I want to avoid dysentery. Only Pure Mineral Water is truly safe, and I change it so that it can only be made at a Chemistry Station.

 

If I wanted to do a "water run" to gather 100 water, I'd spend an hour and I'd have to clear out enough space in my inventory. In other words, I don't just swing by a ditch on my way back to base and gather a bunch of water, as if it were a "survival convenience store." I either build a base close to water (a rational survival decision) or I take time away from clearing POIs, kind of like harvesting food.

 

 

I have one that I use in solo games. Folks are welcome to use it...

 

https://github.com/brucezztong/ZZTong.7D2D.Mods/tree/main/ZZTong-Water

 

So I was doing this as well, in fact I probably got the code from you and modified it.

I had surprisingly little work to do with most of my own modlets, although some have become redundant, this one stopped working though and I'm not really sure why.

It doesn't error, but it only removes the drink action from bare hand. Is yours working in 1.0? 

[zztong]

11 minutes ago, Krougal said:

Is yours working in 1.0?

 

Yes. I do recall making some changes, but I don't recall what they were. My github would probably have the details if you went back through the changes.

 

The only quirks I'm aware of are:

• It still says "Drink" in the UI.
• It still shows the drinking animation rather than a taking animation, and
• It makes it impossible to get the achievement for drinking from a river, lake, etc.

None of those have bothered me enough to look into them.

Edited July 29 by zztong (see edit history)

[Krougal]

Just now, zztong said:

 

Yes.

 

The only quirks I'm aware of are:

• It still says "Drink" in the UI.
• It still shows the drinking animation rather than a taking animation, and
• It makes it impossible to get the achievement for drinking from a river, lake, etc.

None of those have bothered me enough to look into them.

Thanks, I'll have to fiddle with mine, it is really the same code, I just removed some of the extra things you do.

The config between A21 and 1.0 for the hand in items.xml looks the same still so I'm a little puzzled why it didn't work, but then I found a water filter on day 1 (that really should be a t3 mod) so I was lazy about fixing it. Although I think I'd still rather keep the bottles and just go the extra step of not drinking out of the river.

[zztong]

1 minute ago, Krougal said:

I just removed some of the extra things you do.

 

I removed a number of things related to the Dew Collector since TFP's V1.0 Dew Collector has a filter-less option, like I had added. That modlet got smaller for V1.0.

[Krougal]

8 minutes ago, zztong said:

 

I removed a number of things related to the Dew Collector since TFP's V1.0 Dew Collector has a filter-less option, like I had added. That modlet got smaller for V1.0.

I just put the mod back in and it is working properly.

I feel like I have had mods fail to load for no reason from time to time.

Mine gets water with the stock 1 second delay and I added a snowball to water recipe.

 

[zztong]

1 minute ago, Krougal said:

I added a snowball to water recipe.

 

I've thought about doing this, though I worry it makes water too easy. I'm all for having to go harvest snow. I tend to keep a few thousand snow around to make Yucca Smoothies. I worry that it could become a high capacity glue factory. How is it playing out for you? What recipe are you using?

[theFlu]

17 minutes ago, zztong said:

I worry that it could become a high capacity glue factory.

Hmm, asking since you're actually modding it, and might've given it more of a test than I have: do you feel you're limited by the "water for glue production" at points in the game? What are those points? From A21 I never felt limited because of water past d1/d2, and while my experience with A22 is solely from YT, I don't think it changed much. If anything the collectors are more effective now. (?)

[Krougal]

1 hour ago, zztong said:

 

I've thought about doing this, though I worry it makes water too easy. I'm all for having to go harvest snow. I tend to keep a few thousand snow around to make Yucca Smoothies. I worry that it could become a high capacity glue factory. How is it playing out for you? What recipe are you using?

<append xpath="/recipes">
	<recipe name="drinkJarRiverWater" count="1" >
		<ingredient name="resourceSnowBall" count="10"/>
	</recipe>
</append>

I don't get a lot of use out of it, since I usually keep my main base in the grass biome and collect water. Considering it still has to be boiled I don't think either are too OP, but yes, the extra water sources are exactly that; a high capacity glue factory w/o spamming dew collectors.

1 hour ago, theFlu said:

Hmm, asking since you're actually modding it, and might've given it more of a test than I have: do you feel you're limited by the "water for glue production" at points in the game? What are those points? From A21 I never felt limited because of water past d1/d2, and while my experience with A22 is solely from YT, I don't think it changed much. If anything the collectors are more effective now. (?)

In A21 I felt very limited. While I abuse the traders as much as the next guy, I still prefer to craft my own gear. Before 1.0 added them, I also had modded QL6 crafting but my recipes were fair and balanced (I think it was pahbi's mod I went with) and used a ton of glue. 2 junk turrets and a drone was a few hundred glue right there. I also like to use a full mix of weapons for different situations and I like the best. Late game, it is not unusual for me to have 5 or more firearms on me at a given time.

 

It might make it a little too easy, but the main thing is otherwise it is just tedious. 

 

I am not too far into 1.0 playthrough, so I haven't had a chance to update my sole dew collector yet. Considering it is pretty easy now to spam dew collectors I think it's more or less just a preference thing to have other options.

 

Afterthoughts:

I'd still consider glue the issue and not drinking water. My guess is the pimps see it that way too. The water filter being pretty common (I feel like I almost always have one in the first few days for several alphas) makes drinking a non-issue. If you don't have a filter, unless you're having trouble finding a pot, drinking is solved easily. Now even having the helmet filter, I still prefer to make red tea, especially since food seems to be an issue for me the first couple weeks, the slow digestion helps.

 

I also had tried the delay and stack limits but I feel like adding tedium would still not stop mass collection. Any power-gamer worth the title is going to sit there and get RSI clicking repeatedly and suffer through the mind-numbing boredom. I guess I just don't want to spend as much time thinking about making glue or do I save this glue or make it into duct tape as the pimps seem to want us to ever since they made everything duct tape based back in what? A20?.

 

I also think at vanilla that it makes certain other parts of the game not get used. Frequently I would go without things until late game rather than wasting precious duct tape that I will need later. Why blow a bunch on a low-tier gun or piece of armor, tough it out until you can make the ql 5/6 and also skip most tiers. Those t1 weapons may suck, but at least they don't require a repair kit to fix, which requires duct tape.

Edited July 29 by Krougal (see edit history)

[theFlu]

32 minutes ago, Krougal said:

Considering it is pretty easy now to spam dew collectors I think it's more or less just a preference thing to have other options.

That's kinda what I'm worried about; all the hubbub of the water changes and they've mainly managed to add some heat to your base and some polymer farming. Could've reached roughly the same spot just by making the murky take a minute (or fifteen) to boil; polymer being replaced by the fuel.

[Krougal]

18 minutes ago, theFlu said:

That's kinda what I'm worried about; all the hubbub of the water changes and they've mainly managed to add some heat to your base and some polymer farming. Could've reached roughly the same spot just by making the murky take a minute (or fifteen) to boil; polymer being replaced by the fuel.

Well, it takes 50 seconds now, so close. If they made the time ridiculous, the answer would be to just spam campfires (or just mod it back to 50). Make your crafting base a horde base to deal with the non-stop screamer horde and reap the rewards.

 

We shouldn't give them anymore bad ideas though. It always feels like they try to punish the players who will go to any length to game the system, but they just wind up punishing everyone.

 

One thing I will give them though, it is very difficult to balance everything in a game such as this. Even having the knowledge and ability to edit the configs, I still waffle back and forth a lot on what feels right. Take the limited inventory size vs the ever increasing variety of items that won't stack. I've used larger inventory mods frequently but have gone back to using the default and dealing with the gameplay style that arises from it. Granted late game with the endurance run POIs it feels cramped again, even with the fully upgrade drone and copter around. Part of it is to make yourself stop collecting everything you don't need like a magpie. When you've got stacks and stacks and stacks of polymer, it is time to stop bringing more home.

Edited July 29 by Krougal (see edit history)

[Javabean867]

You could add a glue recipe that creates glue from a bucket of water.  I'd think 10 glue per bucket.  you might be able to have it return the bucket as well.  That way the glue production is still limited to "10 per backpack slot" and thus keeping the balance of water to glue.

But honestly i get can get 20 to 30 murky water from looting and having dew collector or 2.  I just don't see the need for additional water sources.  Especially once you have the yucca smoothie recipe, or even the purified water recipe)  you barely use the clean water for anything other than glue.