Glass Jars Question, A21

[Survior]

10 hours ago, RipClaw said:

I'm not upset that they removed the jars. I just wanted to point out that changes to the game in general has led to a higher demand for glue and that has nothing to do with mass production. Mass production was in A20 when I played with exploding crossbow bolts. I used 100 pieces of duct tape per week for that alone. 
 

There are only two things that bug me. One is that only 3 jars of water fit in a dew collector, so you have to empty them daily, and the other is that the Fun Pimps haven't increased the stack size of clean water.
 

 

So you "abused" glue production to make "op" bolts. Do you feel good that everyone can't do that (make glue) anymore?  I've never played with exploding bolts, but I'm sure it's more than just glue, perhaps they should have made it more difficult somewhere else. Using glue to make everything more difficult is silly, or perhaps, just lazy.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Survior (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

 

42 minutes ago, Survior said:

So you "abused" glue production to make "op" bolts. Do you feel good that everyone can't do that (make glue) anymore?  I've never played with exploding bolts, but I'm sure it's more than just glue, perhaps they should have made it more difficult somewhere else. Using glue to make everything more difficult is silly, or perhaps, just lazy.

Exploding crossbow bolts are not OP. They do the same explosion damage as pipe bombs which are much easier to make.

 

If you want to make exploding crossbow bolts, you will need steel arrowheads, gunpowder, and scrap polymer, in addition to duct tape. You also need to have found two books to unlock them. One is for the steel arrowheads and the other is for the exploding crossbow bolts themselves. And you need a crucible to craft the steel arrowheads.
 

The fact that glue production has become more difficult has certainly had nothing to do with me. The change to the water system was decided long before I had my playthrough with the exploding crossbow bolts. You might as well blame Grand Spartan, who also likes to use them.
 

I agree that the use of glue and duct tape in most recipes is really excessive. The Fun Pimps could adjust this and reduce the required quantities. Especially for the vehicles. They might be the biggest problem for multiplayer. A motorcycle, for example, needs 30 duct tape for production and everyone in the group will certainly want to have one.

 

Those who have the most problems with glue production are those who do not use the traders. One possibility could be to adjust the loot table so that the water filter can be found not only in broken dew collectors, but also in other loot containers. That would help these players.

 

[Survior]

Fair enough, I didn't mean to blame you, I only think it's odd when some people are like I totally abused something (I know now that's not what you meant) and for some reason cheer the change that also breaks a ton of other things, or in this case crafting in general since water=glue and water and glue are basically everything in the game.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Survior (see edit history)

[Lokeus]

On 4/21/2023 at 6:24 PM, Vintorez said:

IMO there are more simple, believable ways to achieve the dev's goals;

 

 

 

I am on your side. I also understand why they wanted to stop the jar inflation but there are a lot of ways to do this without breaking the immersion so hard. A neat idea why water collectors are necessary: The catastrophe happened as a result of atomic accident. So water which you find anywhere could give the player radiation debuff so he is

hardly pushed to switch to natural falling down water. Also rainy days could have an impact on water collection... so much potential to raise immersion without disctract fans of the established water system so much. Also: They should have keep old water system (with radiation effect) and limit the stacks as they did now. Everything consumable made of radiated water could have the radiation effect.

Anybody there to make such a modlet? I would pay for it! 😀

[meganoth]

On 6/22/2023 at 9:20 AM, Survior said:

Fair enough, I didn't mean to blame you, I only think it's odd when some people are like I totally abused something (I know now that's not what you meant) and for some reason cheer the change that also breaks a ton of other things, or in this case crafting in general since water=glue and water and glue are basically everything in the game.

 

 

 

Broken is such a strong word. There are reasons for people to not like the change, because of immersion, because filters are basically single-supplier only, because looting the filters may be seen as a chore.

But I don't see anything broken. You can basically buy yourself as many dew collectors as you want and looting them with hitting "E" "R" keys while going along a row is done in less than a minute even with 20 or more of them and much less time than farming a similar number of farm plots.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Finster]

I'm on team "the water situation is ridiculous". Okay, I get the desire for "scarcity". At the same time, the game "realism" is degraded even further as I cannot so much as take a sip from a lake nor put water in a bucket. Furthermore, it makes farming a pointless task. Cool, I guess let me make 1000 meat and potato meals because I don't have water to cook the other recipes.

 

The reason 7 Days to Die is my most played game in the steam library is the procedurally generated maps for infinite worlds, the fully destructible world and general survival gameplay. Friends and I just want to get on a game, get to building and killing zombies. When game elements lack sense or become burdensome due to developer whims, I play it less. My daughter used to play the game a lot and now doesn't find as much enjoyment. She's mostly on project zomboid now. Instead of limits, the game should be expanding crafting elements and capabilities.

 

I do like the new POIs and the remodeling of some of the classics from several years ago, e.g. the underground cave. I like the updates to the workbench, forges, and spinning cement mixers. But for the love of jeebus, don't make things artificially "difficult" by breaking elements and making gameplay nonsensical. 

[Rotor]

On 6/21/2023 at 8:33 AM, zztong said:

However, free murky water on demand (if you're standing by a pond, river, or ditch) runs contrary to the early game's water scarcity goal. I think few oppose this goal. The real trick would be how to do both. I think there are options and I'd happily talk of them (again) if I had any sense it might be useful.

 

Can I ask why you feel it wont be useful?  Or are you miplying DevVille will not "fix" it?

[FranticDan]

14 hours ago, Finster said:

At the same time, the game "realism" is degraded even further as I cannot so much as take a sip from a lake nor put water in a bucket.

You can LITERALLY do both of these!!
Also, once you unlock yucca smoothies, all water found in loot can use used exclusively for glue production.

[zztong]

11 hours ago, Rotor said:

Can I ask why you feel it wont be useful?  Or are you miplying DevVille will not "fix" it?

 

That was 6 months ago, and I may not be able to get back into the mindset.

 

I think what I was saying was that I had written and debated the matter extensively and figured I had reached a point where further discussion on my part was just wasting time. The opposed view has strong reasons why they cling to it and apparently can see an improvement in reaching their goals. They left me a way to "play it my way." What more should I say?

[Kethrian]

If they wanted to add a water shortage problem for early game, they could be part of the difficulty settings, reducing food and water drops from loot.  Then, players can adjust this to their preferences.

Removing glass jars doesn't make the early game harder, it makes a portion of the game more annoying.  Run to a ditch or pool, drink dirty water.  Deal with diarrhea.  Get helmet filter.  Still no problems with water to drink, unless the game spawns you in the middle of the desert with no open water for miles.
You know what the biggest need for water is?  Not drinking.  Glue production.  Glue, to make duct tape, to make repair kits and all kinds of equipment.  You need lots of glue.

If the devs really wanted to do something about balancing water, instead of removing jars, dirty water jars should be an additional ingredient in making concrete.  It's logical, reasonable, and uses up a lot more of an abundant resource.  Now, I'd say 1 jar per 10 concrete sounds like a starting point, so you don't have to become a sand baron just to cover all the sand needed for jars plus concrete.

[Survior]

water (and farming) was changed to extend the grind, this was done I guess because it's way easier than actual content.