Please rescue Multiplayer in A20 !!!

[Zipcore]

A20 was a nice update for players and the worst for server owners in a very long time (ever?).

I've seen many servers shutdown during A20. This must STOP!

 

Here are the top most annoying things the modding community can't fix server-side using mods:

• The new voice system kills interaction with other players, roleplay and PvP servers suffer from this most, but normal PvE servers too. Who needs to mute players when you can't hear them anyways?!? Please let players decide which voice channel they like to use. Party only was a really bad idea.
• The new server browser doesn't let you ignore the region filter, many players fail to find the servers they are looking for. Region filter should be optional for players.
• Chunkreset causes corrupted regions, thats very very frustating! You knew about this bug before A20 was stable, why is that not fixed yet?!?
• Flying trees which only some players can see are very frustating for some players when they destroy their base over and over again.

 

It's ok to have bugs in a game even when it's in alpha for so long (world record?),

but your community can't fix them all for you and you are currently destroying the part of your community which loves to play on public servers!

Am I asking for too much here?

[JJPasak]

Yes we need this ASAP

[Thunderbolt-GER]

I also don't think it was a good idea, to make the voicechat party only. I prefered how it was before.

 

And it would indeed be nice to get a chunkreset command to fix destroyed pois or huge holes that players dug and others fall into with their vehicles all the time.

In the past, the chunkreset could be used for that and didn't cause any problems, at least not for me.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

50 minutes ago, Zipcore said:

A20 was a nice update for players and the worst for server owners in a very long time (ever?).

I've seen many servers shutdown during A20. This must STOP!

 

Here are the top most annoying things the modding community can't fix server-side using mods:

• The new voice system kills interaction with other players, roleplay and PvP servers suffer from this most, but normal PvE servers too. Who needs to mute players when you can't hear them anyways?!? Please let players decide which voice channel they like to use. Party only was a really bad idea.
• The new server browser doesn't let you ignore the region filter, many players fail to find the servers they are looking for. Region filter should be optional for players.
• Chunkreset causes corrupted regions, thats very very frustating! You knew about this bug before A20 was stable, why is that not fixed yet?!?
• Flying trees which only some players can see are very frustating for some players when they destroy their base over and over again.

 

It's ok to have bugs in a game even when it's in alpha for so long (world record?),

but your community can't fix them all for you and you are currently destroying the part of your community which loves to play on public servers!

Am I asking for too much here?

As an admin of 7d2d for many years i would like to say without the coders and modders who have single handed kept this game a float... 7d2d would have folded years ago! Now here we are today and its come to the point modders and coders can't even fix the current issues destroying the game. This is a huge factor why many servers have shut down and for those servers that are left.. they are hanging on by a string.

[axe312]

100% ACK.

 

Pimps, we know you still in alpha, and you are not yet optimizing for multiplayer, but these issues kill the long running player base.

I really want the game to succeed but with these issues more and more are going to drop out and A20 will be the last one with player records.

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, Zipcore said:

 

• The new server browser doesn't let you ignore the region filter, many players fail to find the servers they are looking for. Region filter should be optional for players.
• Flying trees which only some players can see are very frustating for some players when they destroy their base over and over again.

 

It's ok to have bugs in a game even when it's in alpha for so long (world record?),

but your community can't fix them all for you and you are currently destroying the part of your community which loves to play on public servers!

Am I asking for too much here?

1. it's forced by adding 7DTD into MS' game pass.  Well nothing new - a lot of games after adding to gamepass is broken like for example skyrim.

2.  i first hear about this bug - ask about that in support category.

As you said - it's alpha. much bigger game made buy much bigger studios like Acti, Cd projekt - released "full game" that's have much worst situation that 7dtd. It's  normal during alpha stage that things sometime are broken after another update- totaly normal thing. This is normal during Early acess.

 

10 minutes ago, Grandpa Minion said:

As an admin of 7d2d for many years i would like to say without the coders and modders who have single handed kept this game a float... 7d2d would have folded years ago! Now here we are today and its come to the point modders and coders can't even fix the current issues destroying the game. This is a huge factor why many servers have shut down and for those servers that are left.. they are hanging on by a string.

Not rly. Without modders this game would be still alive but it would just have smaller comunity because A lot of people playing SP or coop with few friends.  If you use "external server" -  this is not TFP that this is not working because it's not offical server

[Zipcore]

9 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

1. it's forced by adding 7DTD into MS' game pass.  Well nothing new - a lot of games after adding to gamepass is broken like for example skyrim.

2.  i first hear about this bug - ask about that in support category.

As you said - it's alpha. much bigger game made buy much bigger studios like Acti, Cd projekt - released "full game" that's have much worst situation that 7dtd. It's  normal during alpha stage that things sometime are broken after another update- totaly normal thing. This is normal during Early acess.

1. So if it's out if their hands I'm free to make a mod which registers the server in all regions to bypass this madness?

2. Nobody can be aware of all bugs in this game, there are simply too many. I'm well connected to many bigger communities and this is a thing.

 

It would not hurt TFP to fix at least the most annoying bugs to help a bug chunk of their playerbase out, even when it's an alpha game and even when they make most of their money with SP players.

[Matt115]

29 minutes ago, Zipcore said:

1. So if it's out if their hands I'm free to make a mod which registers the server in all regions to bypass this madness?

2. Nobody can be aware of all bugs in this game, there are simply too many. I'm well connected to many bigger communities and this is a thing.

 

It would not hurt TFP to fix at least the most annoying bugs to help a bug chunk of their playerbase out, even when it's an alpha game and even when they make most of their money with SP players.

1. But can you?

 

Yep and their trying to do this but... this need time. They change a lot in RWG so - there is a chance that bug will be no longer exist because something was change. For example - there will be not need to fix tree problems if world generating logic will be change when they will add water overhaul 

[Princess Fatale]

Okay I'm a player not a server owner i dont have the tech ability to run a server or fix bugs but with over 20k hours in the game i can make a few observations PVP ONLY OBSERVATIONS, in pve mode it is like any other game u play it u win it, in pvp u can never rest, there will always be a better player on the horizzon to challenge u..

1. How do TFP make their money and what is there incentive to progress the game?

so to make money you sell more games to noobs, not a good start as new buyers take preccidence over existing player list, NOW this is bad, for a few reasons, the existing player base gets ignored mostly, and as we all know if a game gets bad reviews its gonna die. New player on a massivly @%$# alpha aint gonna be happy

2. Modders spend most of their time fixing the bugs u make (helmet light still shows as on to all other players apart from the wearer, FFS why cant u fix this?

3. the wiring bug where all all turrets lose ammo and wiring and soalr panels lose all cells, modders fix this in less that 10 mins, why dont ypu pimps pick up on this

4. Dudes please get your act together, this is the best long term game i have ever played, im old, ive played  everquest, eve, warcraft etc, but you pimps are making it harder and harder to play this game, relying on the modders fixing all your mistakes and progress the game for the players

5.  Its not all bad BUT u making it worse with nearly ever release, u have a good core product , stop screwing it up and fix stuff, relying on"its an alpah" may avoid having to give refunds but its about time u got a more "working/stable" core product up and running

6. we know the bug list goes on and on but please fix what u have THEN move forward, pick a few skilled server owners / modder to talk to and PLEASE take their

advice on board

 

[norush]

From the ground perspective - BY FAR the worst thing about the 20.4 update is a lag during player versus player gunfights, where it is now not uncommon to have a full second before fatal damage is assigned to a player and kills them. This in turn means a lot of 'victors' have the opportunity to be hosed down by someone who should be dead, and thus there is a "trade", where both PVP participants die. THIS BEGAN IN 20.4 AND IT IS KILLING INTELLIGENT PVP. It's borderline unnacceptable, if ANYONE from the Fun Pimps pays attention to one single thing that the latest version patch utterly @%$#ed up, then the lag to assigning player damage IS IT.

The corruption/collapsing issues from the built-in rwg maps is a close second, but I cannot stress enough how much someone you kill has a full second of immunity to shoot to back at you is @%$#ing up Player versus Player combat. I know several vets who have finally walked from this game in frustration due to exactly that.

[Zipcore]

18 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

1. But can you?

Have you ever checked the server browser recently? There are many servers using NAIWAZI server gateway which are registered in every region.

[Matt115]

5 minutes ago, Zipcore said:

Have you ever checked the server browser recently? There are many servers using NAIWAZI server gateway which are registered in every region.

Nope. I don't play MP 

[pharrisee]

Whilst I'm not affected by some of these, the Server Search and Filter is to put it bluntly broken.  The UX is terrible, the UI is almost as bad. And I've seen some bad stuff in my work as a Web Dev...

Why can't we filter from the results page? 
Why do I only have to search in one region? 
Why do my favourites not show up regardless of the search criteria?
Why is there a limit on search results.

One thing that is broken currently (and without major changes I can't see how you can even fix it) is that the servers using the NAIWAZI ServerKit seem to have found a way to circumvent the regioning anyway.  So most of the results you get (given the limit previously mentioned) are not even in your region.

It just doesn't work.

If only there was an API we could use to create third party server browsers.  Wouldn't that be lovely.

[Howlune]

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Nope. I don't play MP 

So you don't have a horse in this race. Can't say there are no issues when you don't even participate in part of the game we're addressing concerns with.

 

I've stopped taking "its alpha though" as an excuse. Alphas are supposed to improve over time, or eventually turn into betas. We've experienced neither. I have ran one of the most popular pvp servers since 2020, and had to close my doors because of 20.4. I got used to the netcode problems the game has had for a while. Not the issue. For all the reasons Zipcore had listed, along with this new and unknown elevated netcode lag, it's pretty much impossible.

 

Trees respawn when new players enter an area other players have already been because of some clientside conflict, breaking holes in bases and showing trees on one players screen while not existing on someone elses'. This never seemed to be an issue before a20.

 

This new server browser is either a failure or severely unfinished. Day 1, people were bypassing filters, and no matter where you are in the world you will see the same 10 chinese servers populate the top in player count.. all using the same steam authentication bypass (NAIWAZI). Many servers go unseen because of how unintuitive and clunky it is. Any game dev should know good ideas are defeated by stupid players, but this was just a garbage fire.

 

Chunk reset was invaluable to fixing terrain issues with how unstable the game is, and now its garaunteed to corrupt the map unless you use it in the most remote and least touched places... even then it's too risky.

 

While I havent encountered much issue with voice chat myself, I feel it doesnt even matter much considering the current state of the game.

 

I was able to wing it the considering aforementioned issues, but what really killed it was whatever has caused the game to go from supporting 40 people at most, to 15 at most on a server without getting unbearable lag. I know I'm going to get people telling me "they never mentioned support for more than 8".. yes, I get it.. I've heard it many times. My point is the game runs considerably worse than it did before 20.4 for reasons I still don't know, but I will always blame the netcode by default.. I dont know what they did with it to make it so much worse with one update.

 

No matter the context, a massive downgrade in performance for no reported reason in the patch notes is bad. It doesnt matter how many are playing on the server, the game just flat out runs worse than it did. You may not notice it as much with less people cause its multiplicative, but its it's there. 

[meganoth]

52 minutes ago, Howlune said:

No matter the context, a massive downgrade in performance for no reported reason in the patch notes is bad.

 

That can happen easily when a specific mode is not tested. For example there could be changes that create more demand for CPU cache per player. If TFP only tests for up to 8 players and the cache doesn't fill up for those 8 then they would not have notice this at all.  And they might not know the reason until they investigate it.

 

I'm not saying it isn't bad for you, but it would not be surprising if TFP had the first news of the problem from one of you.

 

 

[Callum123456789]

one side of pvp i havent seen talked about in a long time is the survivors versus infected game mode back from the kickstarter trailer

[Matt115]

59 minutes ago, Howlune said:

So you don't have a horse in this race. Can't say there are no issues when you don't even participate in part of the game we're addressing concerns with.

 

 

I don't have to. If you play in more that max recommended this mean it's not TFP fault.

59 minutes ago, Howlune said:

 

 

I've stopped taking "its alpha though" as an excuse. Alphas are supposed to improve over time, or eventually turn into betas. We've experienced neither. I have ran one of the most popular pvp servers since 2020, and had to close my doors because of 20.4. I got used to the netcode problems the game has had for a while. Not the issue. For all the reasons Zipcore had listed, along with this new and unknown elevated netcode lag, it's pretty much impossible.

 

 

Ofc no.  Stalker, Dead rising is a good example for that. Some new alphas make game working even worst and.... that's totaly normal + this something unexepcted after add 7dtd into game pass and MS shop

1 hour ago, Howlune said:

 

 

I was able to wing it the considering aforementioned issues, but what really killed it was whatever has caused the game to go from supporting 40 people at most, to 15 at most on a server without getting unbearable lag. I know I'm going to get people telling me "they never mentioned support for more than 8".. yes, I get it.. I've heard it many times. My point is the game runs considerably worse than it did before 20.4 for reasons I still don't know, but I will always blame the netcode by default.. I dont know what they did with it to make it so much worse with one update.

 

 

Maybe it works worst but... still this is not their problem. you decided to play in kore that 8 people server. So it's your risk

1 hour ago, Howlune said:

 

 

No matter the context, a massive downgrade in performance for no reported reason in the patch notes is bad. It doesnt matter how many are playing on the server, the game just flat out runs worse than it did. You may not notice it as much with less people cause its multiplicative, but its it's there. 

I fell it's work better in SP. Well i think too many people can couse problem - try to play in 8 max and if there will be still problem - wrote about it in support - i'm sure TFP will try to help

 

8 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

That can happen easily when a specific mode is not tested. For example there could be changes that create more demand for CPU cache per player. If TFP only tests for up to 8 players and the cache doesn't fill up for those 8 then they will not notice at all.  And they would not know the reason.

 

I'm not saying it isn't bad for you, but it is not at all surprising if TFP had the first news of the problem from one of you.

 

 

Well - if something don't work when there is 50 people it is not TFP fault right?

[Evil_Geoff]

I manage a couple of multi-player hosted servers, but they are PVE servers, not PVP.  We use Discord for voice chat, not the in-game because, well, frankly, in our opinions, the in-game chat was never very good to begin with.

But the Server Search ⁉️ ⁉️ ⁉️  What the ever lovin' hell did y'all do to it?  From 7K servers on a busy night in A20.3 to MAYBE 210, per region with the A20.4 screwup?  That's beyond terrible.

And... Where are the FAVORITE Servers?  Having to log in using IP every time isn't that big a deal.  IF you play on one server.  If you play on 3 or 4 (or more)?  It's a massive, MASSIVE headache to have to manually change the IP, port and PW every, single, time, to get on them.

While the 7DtD modding community is alive and well and robust, to the best of my knowledge there is no single modder or modding team dedicated to fixing actually broken game programming.  Unlike Bethesda's TES and Fallout communities, we don't have an Arthmoor pushing out an "Unofficial 7 Days to Die Patch" every alpha to fix things that get broken.  We don't have a LOOT equivalent, we don't have a TESEdit or FOEdit or Wrye Bash. 

Don't get me wrong, I love this game.  That's why I have over 5K hours in it.  I have enjoyed a lot of the changes over the various alphas, but 20.4/20.5 introduced some major server issues.  One of the most active server communities, Salty Zombies, even shut down their servers, and rolled back to 20.3 after several weeks of constant problems with 20.4 and then 20.5.

EOS sux.  Until THEY can fix their problems with the server search, remove EOS implementation.  Screw Micro$lop and crossplay until that mess is fixed. 

Whoever monitors these forums for TFP - PLEASE - Pass these comments on.

[bandersnatch]

Whenever I see options being removed, mechanics being dumbed down and features being stripped out, I always assume its for the sake of console porting.  So many good PC games that were never going to work on consoles have been crippled this way.  I've got no faith left in TFP after eight long years but how I'd love to see them prove me wrong.  How incredible would it be to see this game reach its true potential, console peasants be damned.  Nobody gets an XB or PSX to play stuff with this kind of scale, depth and customization anyway.

[Evil_Geoff]

The last (and only) console I have ever owned was a first gen Atari PONG.  Real friends don't let friends play consoles.  🤣

 

[Matt115]

18 hours ago, Evil_Geoff said:

EOS sux.  Until THEY can fix their problems with the server search, remove EOS implementation.  Screw Micro$lop and crossplay until that mess is fixed. 
 

K. One condition - give them 10 000 000 Dollars. Why? They made a deal with MS and such big companies offten add a lot of things in their contracts - so there will be contractual penalties. And often are such big that can make small studio go default. So don't care about  MS is bad idea unless you have a lot free  $$$ to spend. If you have - i think you can try to convice TFP about that . If not - well just use to it or earn money for that

13 hours ago, bandersnatch said:

Whenever I see options being removed, mechanics being dumbed down and features being stripped out, I always assume its for the sake of console porting.  So many good PC games that were never going to work on consoles have been crippled this way.  I've got no faith left in TFP after eight long years but how I'd love to see them prove me wrong.  How incredible would it be to see this game reach its true potential, console peasants be damned.  Nobody gets an XB or PSX to play stuff with this kind of scale, depth and customization anyway.

This is about 7dtd windows shop and gamepass version and  steam version crossplay

[Zipcore]

Just to get this clear since a lot just add offtopic things into this thread.

This is only about most annoying things we can't fix server-side and which have a very negative impact on MP server.

If you don't play on MP servers or don't host them this is nothing you have to care about.

This is only an attempt to get some attention by TFP to care at least for those 4 issues.

This game has many issues, it's still alpha, this is not about those things.

I don't think I've asked for much to get those things fixed, if this would be a rant about fixing all the bugs in this game it I would have provided a very very very long list of bugs. So please stop leading this into other directions and stop defeing TFP over something which has no impact on you.

 

The game is great and I will continue to host servers, but I see that some things should be fixed asap to give MP servers at least a chance.

 

 

[Matt115]

10 minutes ago, Zipcore said:

Just to get this clear since a lot just add offtopic things into this thread.

This is only about most annoying things we can't fix server-side and which have a very negative impact on MP server.

If you don't play on MP servers or don't host them this is nothing you have to care about.

This is only an attempt to get some attention by TFP to care at least for those 4 issues.

This game has many issues, it's still alpha, this is not about those things.

I don't think I've asked for much to get those things fixed, if this would be a rant about fixing all the bugs in this game it I would have provided a very very very long list of bugs. So please stop leading this into other directions and stop defeing TFP over something which has no impact on you.

 

The game is great and I will continue to host servers, but I see that some things should be fixed asap to give MP servers at least a chance.

 

 

i will try to explain - 7DTD was added into MS store. So... they know about problems. But is not easy to fix this. If I good understand you play above 8 players servers right? so this not their faul. So this have impact for us all. Because this need time.  1 , 2 ,3 problems are probably connected with crossplay changes and last one - it exist if you play in small group (4-8) too? 

 

[Maharin]

Rescue multiplayer?  Quick!  Someone throw it a zipline!

[kanaverum]

13 hours ago, Matt115 said:

i will try to explain - 7DTD was added into MS store. So... they know about problems. But is not easy to fix this. If I good understand you play above 8 players servers right? so this not their faul. So this have impact for us all. Because this need time.  1 , 2 ,3 problems are probably connected with crossplay changes and last one - it exist if you play in small group (4-8) too? 

 

 

"...it exist if you play in small group (4-8) too?"

Yes, every issue Zipcore posted at the top of this page has been reported to happen even in multiplayer with as few as 2 people. [edit; grammar]

 

I think everyone here believes that TFP will continue to do the best they can and try to deliver a great gaming experience.
But I also think that it helps to provide feedback. This is what everyone is trying to do in their own way.

 

I see that you're attempting to explain that TFP are going to work at it.

I also expect that TFP will work at improving the experience.
 

Since this thread is focused on 4 key issues with the multiplayer experience and you have already explained you lack knowledge on managing an open server for 7 Days to Die or playing 7 Days to Die with others, I can only assume that you're here to learn more about the experience?

 

Allow me to reset expectations a little and offer some clarifying information to help provide the extra context that seems to be missing:

1. I have personally experienced most of the issues Zipcore posted with as few as 2 players.
   1. And yes, that map never had more than 2 players play on it at any time, ever.
   2. From the beginning, TFP described their ideal game as "Walking Dead + Minecraft with your friends". Multiplayer has always been a central part of the experience and represents the ultimate target of the game.
   3. The only issue I haven't personally encountered yet is the floating/base-destroying tree. I am aware of other admins/servers/communities struggling with this bug, though.
2. While TFP officially support single player and peer-to-peer 'friendly co-op' multiplayer, they do also officially support dedicated servers.
   1. In fact, they deploy a dedicated server build with every release to Steam and this is what we use to host these games.
   2. It's entirely understandable that someone who only plays single player would not be aware of this, but now you know.
3. TFP actually support up to 16 since A20's release.
   1. You can click to start a new game right now in A20 and see this for yourself: 8 players remains the default, but you can click the right arrow (since A20) and select 16 players as an officially supported option for peer-to-peer games. So if you decide to play multiplayer one day, you can invite 15 of your friends (or maybe even more, if 7DTD supports more by then).
   2. Sure, 7 Days to Die will never become Rust with 300 players per server and that's ok. We want 7 Days to Die to be 7 Days to Die.
4. No software or game will ever be perfect. TFP were very kind to support official streams of modding. So as modders and sever admins, we spend a fair amount of our free time fixing bugs to help support the intended experiences that TFP were going for and sharing those fixes/mods with others.
   1. They didn't ask us to do this. We just started doing it on our own because we love 7 Days to Die. 
   2. Zipcore has released dozens of multiplayer fixes and has helped a lot of admins and players out as a result.
   3. The issues Zipcore posted are the kinds of issues that cannot be modded or fixed with modding.
   4. TFP are smart people, but nobody can know all things at all times. They ask for our feedback and this post is one way that the community seeks to provide feedback. Yeah, it seems a little hostile. But I hope you can appreciate that it's coming from a good place: from a love for 7 Days to Die and the desire for it to remain as one of the best zombie survival multiplayer experiences.

Anyhow, hopefully this helps to provide a foundation for what and why we're discussing in this thread.