Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Crypted]

3 minutes ago, jorbascrumps said:

 

Those zombies are not kids.

Well they look like a kid or at least a young teenager to me, that's all. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Crypted (see edit history)

[faatal]

12 hours ago, Philipp said:

I got a general question about these "did a Prototype, Stopped working on it stuff" 

 

How does it comes like that? Is it like, you get the job to program a raft, because someone thinks it's a great idea, and then, when testing, someone decides it's not as fun as its supposed to be as Feature, so it's cancelled? Because, at some point, someone has to had the idea, that the game needs a raft, am I right? I just try to understand how it works since im not working in a gamecompany, neither am I a Programmer. 

Just need clarification, because every stuff thats gonna be programmed an then canceled is lost time in game development or not? Hope you get my point since my english is not flawless at all. 

Thanks ✌🏼

The raft model has been in the project for years and the plan was to eventually do something with it. I made the vehicle system generic enough to support vehicles floating on water. I always have dozens of tasks I could work on, but some days you just want to have fun with something new, so back in September I spent a day setting up the prefab and xml to make it work and it does.

 

I showed it to the team and we had a laugh about what we could do with it someday, but it needs many more days to polish it up, so it was not deemed to be something we would do for A21. That work is not wasted, but simply set aside until in can be properly finished and combined with other water related features like say a shark and better shapes and quantities of water in the world, so you would actually want to make a raft to get around. I'd love to have a water map full of islands.

 

Game development often has creative rabbit trails where you try some idea and see what happens. People also work harder when given some freedom to try new things or work in areas that interest them. We are not an assembly line of robots.

[Guppycur]

Boats are definitely doable (we have boat mods) and it really does add an element, but I honestly wouldn't consider it game changing unless there was a good *reason* to boat.  

 

Like fishing or diving.  And fishing mods require the block item swap property to work with the method we use, and I'm super curious if the new water will support that.  

 

All in all, as much as I like boats, they'd be wasted imo, without a reason for them. 

 

I hate arguing against new features.

[Crypted]

I have a question about game development faatal, is it true that the further you progress with a game the more complicated it becomes. I heard something like this from some people and just wanted to know if any of this is true or not? Sorry if I'm completely wrong. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Crypted (see edit history)

[LuckyStar]

30 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

Boats are definitely doable (we have boat mods) and it really does add an element, but I honestly wouldn't consider it game changing unless there was a good *reason* to boat.  

 

Like fishing or diving.  And fishing mods require the block item swap property to work with the method we use, and I'm super curious if the new water will support that.  

 

All in all, as much as I like boats, they'd be wasted imo, without a reason for them. 

 

I hate arguing against new features.

 

Yeah I've played with mods that added boats and never found a reason for using them.

Even if a modded in quest involved something with an island we could just fly over [or swim].

 

Also... nice to see you're still here Guppy.

Haven't been on these forums since A16.4

 

You must have 20k hours in 7DTD by now !😄

 

Cheers!!

[Riamus]

18 minutes ago, Crypted said:

I have a question about game development faatal, is it true that the further you progress with a game the more complicated it becomes. I heard something like this from some people and just wanted to know if any of this is true or not? Sorry if I'm completely wrong. 

I'm sure fataal will comment, but from my programming experience (not games), I would have to say that this is often true.  With any large programming project, the beginning stages are less complex because you were not trying to connect multiple parts together.  As you get towards the end, almost all of what you are doing is connecting things and making sure they work properly together and don't have bugs that are often more likely to crop up as you aren't always thinking about every possibility of how multiple parts work together.  The end is also where you do a lot of balancing and optimization and that can be more challenging than just creating a new feature.

3 minutes ago, LuckyStar said:

 

Yeah I've played with mods that added boats and never found a reason for using them.

Even if a modded in quest involved something with an island we could just fly over [or swim].

 

Also... nice to see you're still here Guppy.

Haven't been on these forums since A16.4

 

You must have 20k hours in 7DTD by now !😄

 

Cheers!!

I think it comes down to what can be done if there is a boat (raft) available.  No one is going to make much water-related stuff if it is a pain to travel on water.  Making it easy to travel on water means it is more likely to start seeing water-related POI and islands and such.  Flying works for island hopping, if you have a gyrocopter.  But I'm sure a raft will be far cheaper to make and available early in the game, making it an option much sooner.  It also makes it easier to reach water POI as those may not have any way way to land on them or take off from them.

 

Even with increased movement speeds in water in A21, it is likely to be no faster than running.  I for one would prefer to travel across water faster than running speed, so swimming isn't something I'd choose to do for any long distance.  And if they really do add sharks like fataal suggested, then swimming is also more dangerous.

[LuckyStar]

28 minutes ago, Riamus said:

I'm sure fataal will comment, but from my programming experience (not games), I would have to say that this is often true.  With any large programming project, the beginning stages are less complex because you were not trying to connect multiple parts together.  As you get towards the end, almost all of what you are doing is connecting things and making sure they work properly together and don't have bugs that are often more likely to crop up as you aren't always thinking about every possibility of how multiple parts work together.  The end is also where you do a lot of balancing and optimization and that can be more challenging than just creating a new feature.

I think it comes down to what can be done if there is a boat (raft) available.  No one is going to make much water-related stuff if it is a pain to travel on water.  Making it easy to travel on water means it is more likely to start seeing water-related POI and islands and such.  Flying works for island hopping, if you have a gyrocopter.  But I'm sure a raft will be far cheaper to make and available early in the game, making it an option much sooner.  It also makes it easier to reach water POI as those may not have any way way to land on them or take off from them.

 

Even with increased movement speeds in water in A21, it is likely to be no faster than running.  I for one would prefer to travel across water faster than running speed, so swimming isn't something I'd choose to do for any long distance.  And if they really do add sharks like fataal suggested, then swimming is also more dangerous.

My concern for anything water/boat related is always time.

 

You make good points and those are certainly good reasons for boats.

I especially like the idea of sharks.

 

I'm thinking about what POIs we'd choose in early game.

There isn't much time to gather resources and it's slow going because of crummy tools.

Not sure wasting a couple hours traveling would be worth it.

By the time that's a non issue, you've got a Gyro.

 

If a raft was really fast then sure... what does it matter right?

How about a canoe?

Those are pretty fast.

[Not just saying that because I'm Canadian...... canoes are great! 😊]

 

So long as traveling by boat was a decent speed it could be okay.

If it's slow, I don't see them having much use at all.

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by LuckyStar (see edit history)

[zztong]

I asked ChatGPT to make me a Bingo Card for tonight's Dev Stream.

 

ZZ: Generate a 5x5 Bingo card using 7 Days To Die terms in each cell.

 

ChatGPT: Sure, here's a 5x5 bingo card using 7 Days To Die terms:

B	I	N	G	O
Zombie	Scavenging	Blood Moon	Horde Night	Crafting System
Mining	Base Building	Forging	Stealth	Electricity
Bandit	Quest System	Cooking	Heat Map	Skill Trees
Traps	Weather Effects	Vehicle Building	Farming	Weapon Mods
Radiation	Day/Night Cycle	Barbed Wire	Blade	Zombie Dogs

I hope this 7 Days To Die bingo card is what you're looking for. Have fun playing!

[youeatcandy]

1 hour ago, Crypted said:

That's on twitter on the 7 days to die account and I believe it's also on instagram too. 

Roger that, thanks again!

[HB_H4wk]

The volume level of a Screamer is loud, is there any way to make her a moaner?

[Riamus]

5 hours ago, zztong said:

I asked ChatGPT to make me a Bingo Card for tonight's Dev Stream.

Edit: Removed as it was misunderstood and wasn't funny the way it seemed.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Mister Forgash]

If sharks are really being considered, I would, love, love, love(hate) if instead of sharks, it were the freakin' living dinosaurs we currently know as alligators. 

Neither would be considered native to Arizona, but aside from being able to follow onto land, I just find alligators to instill a much more intense sensation of utter pants-wettening terror. 🤞

[faatal]

12 hours ago, spud42 said:

If i remember correctly the raft was put on hold until they got around to fixing the water. how can you raft when the water surface had holes in it? you would also leave a track in the water surface behind you as the water blocks were destroyed. 

i remember building a castle in water quite a few alphas ago. every zombie thay came into the water and was killed destroyed the water blocks on the bottom of the lake when they despawned leaving unsightly holes ... plus i think i remember a gurgling water sound too..  we have been asking for water to be fixed fo 4 or 5 alphas at least.

 

The water simulation changes don't really effect the raft. It could have worked with the old water as well as the new. Large bodies of water are just idle voxels in the new simulation. Holes would cause the raft to hit a bump, but large bodies in the old sim rarely had holes in them.

[faatal]

4 hours ago, Guppycur said:

Boats are definitely doable (we have boat mods) and it really does add an element, but I honestly wouldn't consider it game changing unless there was a good *reason* to boat.  

 

Like fishing or diving.  And fishing mods require the block item swap property to work with the method we use, and I'm super curious if the new water will support that.  

 

All in all, as much as I like boats, they'd be wasted imo, without a reason for them. 

 

I hate arguing against new features.

Well, the goal would be to give you reasons to not want to be in the water. 🌊

4 hours ago, Crypted said:

I have a question about game development faatal, is it true that the further you progress with a game the more complicated it becomes. I heard something like this from some people and just wanted to know if any of this is true or not? Sorry if I'm completely wrong. 

Definitely. Games with many features grow massively as they are developed, because at the start they don't have all those features and often when features are added they are basic and then grow over time.

[Slasher]

crocodile would be dope

[CultOfMoose]

So are all the female clothing going to be stripper outfits or are we getting outfits that cover as much as the male outfits do?

 

Cause at this point it really seems like you are making female characters for your sex starved male players and giving the finger to your female fans....

 

And before get guys get butthurt about women asking to be treated like human beings instead of sex objects, hush, if you aren't a women you don't get to have an opinion on how we are allowed to feel.

Edited April 20, 2023 by CultOfMoose (see edit history)

[Crypted]

I just got done watching the A21 dev stream and I really liked all of it especially the Alpha 22+ character models and bandits. A lot more art is always nice and some trader compound models. 

[katarynna]

14 minutes ago, CultOfMoose said:

So are all the female clothing going to be stripper outfits or are we getting outfits that cover as much as the male outfits do?

 

Cause at this point it really seems like you are making female characters for your sex starved male players and giving the finger to your female fans....

 

And before get guys get butthurt about women asking to be treated like human beings instead of sex objects, hush, if you aren't a women you don't get to have an opinion on how we are allowed to feel.

 

Maybe i'm missing something, but isn't the party girl the only somewhat scantily clad female?

 

Jen has big boobs, but her clothes are normal clothes you might see any female anywhere wearing. The old nurse had more of a sexy costumely look, but the new one is wearing scrubs and looks completely normal. Marlene, Arlene, darlene, and big momma are all covered. So is the lab worker. I can't think of a single other female zombie that is scantily clad.

 

I am fine with adding one scantily clad male zombie for those who really want parity, but i personally don't find it necessary.

 

As for specifically female character clothing, the only thing i can think of is the skirt, which is below the knee if i remember right. Definitely not a short skirt.

 

As a female, i neither feel like the female characters are made for the sex starved nor that tfp are giving me the middle finger. I absolutely don't feel the same as you, despite the fact that we are the same gender.

[Mister Forgash]

Nothing wrong with women having more tasteful clothing options. Lets hope that steel armor covers everything to your satisfaction.

.. if you're not a man, you shouldn't get to have an opinion over how butthurt we do or do not feel.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Mister Forgash (see edit history)

[Laz Man]

34 minutes ago, katarynna said:

 

Maybe i'm missing something, but isn't the party girl the only somewhat scantily clad female?

 

Jen has big boobs, but her clothes are normal clothes you might see any female anywhere wearing. The old nurse had more of a sexy costumely look, but the new one is wearing scrubs and looks completely normal. Marlene, Arlene, darlene, and big momma are all covered. So is the lab worker. I can't think of a single other female zombie that is scantily clad.

 

I am fine with adding one scantily clad male zombie for those who really want parity, but i personally don't find it necessary.

 

As for specifically female character clothing, the only thing i can think of is the skirt, which is below the knee if i remember right. Definitely not a short skirt.

 

As a female, i neither feel like the female characters are made for the sex starved nor that tfp are giving me the middle finger. I absolutely don't feel the same as you, despite the fact that we are the same gender.

 

My guess is the comment was because of the new desert female player character outfit shown in tonight's dev stream.

[Crypted]

31 minutes ago, katarynna said:

Maybe i'm missing something, but isn't the party girl the only somewhat scantily clad female?

 

Jen has big boobs, but her clothes are normal clothes you might see any female anywhere wearing. The old nurse had more of a sexy costumely look, but the new one is wearing scrubs and looks completely normal. Marlene, Arlene, darlene, and big momma are all covered. So is the lab worker. I can't think of a single other female zombie that is scantily clad.

 

I am fine with adding one scantily clad male zombie for those who really want parity, but i personally don't find it necessary.

 

As for specifically female character clothing, the only thing i can think of is the skirt, which is below the knee if i remember right. Definitely not a short skirt.

 

As a female, i neither feel like the female characters are made for the sex starved nor that tfp are giving me the middle finger. I absolutely don't feel the same as you, despite the fact that we are the same gender.

I don't get what CultofMoose is saying, TFP definitely aren't giving the middle finger to female players for 7DTD. If TFP were they would just have male characters and zombies in there but they don't, there are female characters and zombies in the game too. 

[Riamus]

6 minutes ago, Crypted said:

I don't get what CultofMoose is saying, TFP definitely aren't giving the middle finger to female players for 7DTD. If TFP were they would just have male characters and zombies in there but they don't, there are female characters and zombies in the game too. 

Well, they were referring to player clothing.  I haven't seen the dev stream yet (pulling it up right now), but if they show only one outfit for females and it is the way CultofMoose described, then there's enough reason to be upset.  It does often happen that games as well as any other media are often designed in such a way.  When there is a perceived view that more males will play the game (whether correct or not), you can get designs made to create interest for guys even if it's not tasteful.  It isn't really right to do that but it happens everywhere.

 

That said, I am sure there will be enough other clothing/armor options to fit anyone's chosen style.  Keeping in mind that some women want to wear such outfits in the game, so there should be an option for those women as well as for those who do not like that style.

[Crypted]

23 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Well, they were referring to player clothing.  I haven't seen the dev stream yet (pulling it up right now), but if they show only one outfit for females and it is the way CultofMoose described, then there's enough reason to be upset.  It does often happen that games as well as any other media are often designed in such a way.  When there is a perceived view that more males will play the game (whether correct or not), you can get designs made to create interest for guys even if it's not tasteful.  It isn't really right to do that but it happens everywhere.

 

That said, I am sure there will be enough other clothing/armor options to fit anyone's chosen style.  Keeping in mind that some women want to wear such outfits in the game, so there should be an option for those women as well as for those who do not like that style.

I know what she is talking about, what I meant was why is she saying all of that about the sex starved male players part of it because the female clothes are covering up everything (she said stripper outfits) but there isn't anything similar between stripper outfits and the female desert outfit. I'm sure TFP are adding more clothes/armor (so this clothes part to it shouldn't be a problem right now). I agree with more clothing variety but now isn't really the time to talk about it because there still working on a lot of things, so they're going to get to it I'm sure. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Crypted (see edit history)

[JayBiggS]

"I didn't show a nak--uh base female just, you know, because that could be controversial..." -Lee

Why would it be controversial? Did they put her in a micro bikini? Is she totally nude?

I hope not

[Riamus]

46 minutes ago, Crypted said:

I know what she is talking about, what I meant was why is she saying all of that about the sex starved male players part of it because the female clothes are covering up everything (she said stripper outfits) but there isn't anything similar between stripper outfits and the female desert outfit. I'm sure TFP are adding more clothes/armor (so this clothes part to it shouldn't be a problem right now). I agree with more clothing variety but now isn't really the time to talk about it because there still working on a lot of things, so they're going to get to it I'm sure. 

Ok, so I watched the stream and can comment more directly now.  The desert outfit comparison of male to female is certainly very different, where the male outfit fully covers the male and the female outfit shows a lot of skin.  You're right that it's not a stripper outfit by any means and covers everything, but it is also not necessarily what many women would choose to wear and is certainly designed with male interests in mind.  Chat was clearly thinking the same with their "Jen who?" comments.  That doesn't mean you have to wear that outfit, though.  I'd assume there are still a wide variety of clothing that would provide the style each person wants.  But some women would like to wear a "Tomb Raider" style outfit.  And, right or wrong, many guys who choose to play female characters would want such an outfit.  So there is reason to have it in the game.  If I were TFP, I think I'd at least consider having male and female clothing have the same range of styles (maybe they already do), such that you can also get male clothing that is a male version of the Tomb Raider style, though honestly it would look better to me to have a Raiders of the Lost Ark male style to go along with the Tomb Raider female style even though one is clearly more clothed.  But as long as they offer fully clothed (no skin) female clothing, I think it'll be fine.  Let players choose what suits them best without being too stereotypical in the available choices.  If this was the only clothing option or all were like this, then I could easily see where some women would be offended, but I am certain it will not be and there will be options for those who don't like this style.

 

I just hope there are still going to be options for a wide variety of body shapes.  I'd prefer not playing a jacked guy and I'm sure many women would prefer not to play women with such a prominent upper half.  There were some different male options shown that do suggest we'll still have some variation in looks and hopefully it's a good variation.  I am also not a fan of the super hairy arms and legs on the one guy they showed.  It just looks really bad to me.

 

16 minutes ago, JayBiggS said:

"I didn't show a nak--uh base female just, you know, because that could be controversial..." -Lee

Why would it be controversial? Did they put her in a micro bikini? Is she totally nude?

I hope not

Well, considering the desert clothing is apparently controversial, that base version is also likely to be even though there's no reason why it should be.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)