Zombies is About Hordes and Numbers

[asmosnuts]

   I am running old hardware and have had the situation when performance choices come into play. This game has been in dev a long time and basic requirements then are nowhere near basic requirements now. Yes its not feasible for some to upgrade, but at some point things have to move on. Like a lot of people I cant constantly upgrade, but I understand basic requirements change with the hardware and im not sure numbers would support the argument for potato pcs.

     Unity seems to be the problem, without a solution.

   Asking for proper hordes in a horde based game with vanilla settings is not not complaining or asking for too much. If i wished to mod i would be modding.

Empty worlds arent good for anyone and forever hanging on to archaic specs is no solution.

[Roland]

10 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

I just can´t see why releasing a game with an empty world get´s defended so badly.

Nobody is defending releasing the game with an empty world. If that is what you are getting from the debate then you aren’t reading very well.

 

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

Nobody is defending releasing the game with an empty world. If that is what you are getting from the debate then you aren’t reading very well.

 

 

 

Oh so we are getting more zombies? On default settings that is, where the balancing happens. Otherwise it´s just a half assed work around. 

 

And yes, saying the numbers need be kept low due to minimum specs, that make like 5% of the playerbase, is defending having an empty world.

Edited November 15, 2021 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Boidster]

On 11/13/2021 at 10:58 AM, RichyYoung said:

I hate the change in ai pathing, you can funnel on horde night and be done in an hour even on max zombies

 

This mod may possibly be of interest to you.

[Kattla]

On 11/10/2021 at 10:09 PM, saoron666 said:

I think after playing the game for over 1200hrs with max difficulty i still find it very easy from start to late in the game..

 

this game needs HORDES of zombies! you need numbers of them walking and attacking, surrounding you, getting you cornered!

 

so you cant run by them! if they surround you, you are done!

 

imagine a horde of zombies on sprint mode !!!! now we talking survival skills and that run and gun is worth leveling,...

 

we need to maximize the number of random zombies on the game.

 

Been there, done that.  Base defence was like, left-click 8 times, then hit r. Rince and repeat until lag and zombies was gone.

Survival skills, not really. In my opinion, survival actually is to fight as little as possible , or find methods that put you, the player, at as little risk

as possible. In other words, kinda like min/maxing.

 

Fighting skills, maybe. I'm not denying it gives a certain thrill to run around on the ground at horde night, at least the first times one do it, and most

at the start of the bloodmoon. It's quite fun, but i am not considering it "survival". Just fun.

 

Even if this game become super-optimized to support massive hordes, players will adept their fighting style to match the horde sizes. Explosives can be

quite useful for large zombie gatherings.

 

It's quite some time ago i had fun with those massive hordes. It was in multiplayer too. And, it was where i first learned how to run and club zombies.
And, yes. That image just shows a roaming horde... not bloodmoon horde. Hiding image behind spoiler tag to not steal this thread entirely.

Spoiler

 

[warmer]

I keep hearing this is a zombie horde game. Its not. It is nothing like Left for Dead or Days Gone. This is and has always been a survival crafting RPG in a zombie apoc setting.

 

When did the devs ever say this was a zombie horde game?

[Roland]

27 minutes ago, warmer said:

When did the devs ever say this was a zombie horde game?

 

On the Steam store page where the game is sold.

 

19 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Oh so we are getting more zombies? On default settings that is, where the balancing happens. Otherwise it´s just a half assed work around.

 

We are getting more zombies in defined areas of the world. Downtown areas will have more zombies with a shorter respawn rate. Its a first step.

 

19 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

And yes, saying the numbers need be kept low due to minimum specs, that make like 5% of the playerbase, is defending having an empty world.

 

Explaining why is not the same as defending. Defending carries with it a connotation that I prefer an empty world and want it to remain empty and that isn't true. I authored a pretty popular thread for the purpose of helping as many people as possible to get more zombies into their games. But I'm not going to avoid the truth just because it is an unhappy truth.

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Roland You know, nitpicking on a choice of words in a forum with people from different nations is a waste of time. I am 100% sure you exactly know what i mean when i say defending an empty world.

Edited November 15, 2021 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Roland]

8 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@Roland You know, nitpicking on a choice of words in a forum with people from different nations is a waste of time. I am 100% sure you exactly know what i mean when i say defending an empty world.

 

No I don't and I get accused for mindlessly defending unpopular aspects of the game enough that it is important to me to make my stance clear. Thus I'm drawing a distinction regardless of whether you think it is nitpicky. Besides, I would say that where a language barrier could exist it is more important to make sure everyone is using the same definitions for their words.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Roland (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

You have no clue what i am talking about? Ok. we can go on and waste more time even when i am sure you get what i mean.

 

By saying the numbers need to be kept low, wich results in an empty world, you might not actually defend the empty world but you defend the necessity of it. Wich shortly said is kind of defending an empty world.

 

Jeez.

Edited November 15, 2021 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Roland]

19 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

but you defend the necessity of it

 

Explain the necessity of it without condemnation or praise. Much like I can explain the necessity of oxygen for breathing. I'm not defending the idea of you jumping into a pool and taking a big breath while submerged. I'm just explaining that it won't work out well for you if you do.

 

I simply gave the reason which you may or may not agree with or like or dislike. I certainly wish we had more zombies and hope they are able to increase those numbers before the game is finalized.

 

Look, if your translation program keeps spitting out "defend" for whatever word you are using then get a new program... jeez.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Roland (see edit history)

[asmosnuts]

   So would the same reasons account for  nerfed map sizes and limited range of poi on a map, the 3 same poi on the same street.?

 The big maps, large numbers seem so long ago ( shut up! I'm not crying!!!! )

 

 

Quote

I'm not defending the idea of you jumping into a pool and taking a big breath while submerged.

    Harsh but funny.....

Edited November 15, 2021 by asmosnuts
add (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

Well ok. Explaining would be to tell why it is that way. But saying it can´t be changed due to minimum specs when those are outdated and that part of players isn´t even 5%, is defending it.

Edited November 15, 2021 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[warmer]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

 

On the Steam store page where the game is sold.

 

 

actually Roland, the word horde or hoard isn't on the Steam page, except in reviews, not by the devs.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/251570/7_Days_to_Die/

nor is it here

https://7daystodie.com/?home

 

So where did the devs say this again? Just searched for the word. Never mentioned...

 

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by warmer (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

It´s on the offical homepage, right on top. Also i believe it´s in the offical trailers and videos, not sure about that tough. @warmer

 

Edit: You even posted the link. It says "The Survival Horde Crafting Game" in big red letters. And it is in the offical trailer right at the end.

Edited November 15, 2021 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[theFlu]

1 hour ago, warmer said:

So where did the devs say this again? Just searched for the word. Never mentioned...

I dunno, maybe scroll up and look at the image on top the forum?

[Boidster]

No hordes, you say? How many hordes can fit on the head of a pin?

 

Alternatively,

 

A horde is a horde of course of course

And nobody knows the size of a horde

That is of course unless the horde

Is not full of many undead!

 

/I'm old

 

1 hour ago, asmosnuts said:

So would the same reasons account for  nerfed map sizes and limited range of poi on a map, the 3 same poi on the same street.?

 The big maps, large numbers seem so long ago ( shut up! I'm not crying!!!! )

 

Everything except "3 POI on the same street" is down to resource constraints, yes. Optimization of the game will help, having a stronger PC will help.

 

The 3x POI on the same street is the RWG engine. With the large # of POIs the odds are you wouldn't see 3 of the same on the same street, but it can happen. I've got two identical Pass'N'Gas POIs next to each other in one town on my map, tho I'm not sure if they're vanilla POIs or if they came from Compopack. The new RWG coming with A20 might reduce these occurrences even more, or eliminate them (within reason).

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Boidster (see edit history)

[Roland]

1 hour ago, asmosnuts said:

 So would the same reasons account for  nerfed map sizes and limited range of poi on a map, the 3 same poi on the same street.?

 The big maps, large numbers seem so long ago ( shut up! I'm not crying!!!! )

 

Before I answer, I want to state that I loved the infinite maps and was personally very forgiving of hiccups and odd moments where new chunks needed to load in order to have infinite maps and in no way was in favor of giving those up.

 

Now let me explain:

 

The developers moved to a system of pregeneration where the map is generated one time before you play on it for the first time. After that it behaves just as Navesgane does for the purposes of loading in and out of memory. A full map is stored on your hard drive so that as you travel the world, the loading and unloading of chunks is much faster than straight procedural generation. This helped performance quite a bit.

 

You cannot pregenerate infinity. So the new system no longer supported infinite worlds. The new system does support distant terrain and the new A20 feature of dynamically updated distant terrain that will represent player made changes. None of that was possible with infinite maps. The new system improves performance over the old.

 

Whether those advantages are worth the loss of infinite maps is going to be up to each person. The developers thought it was worth it. Maybe they were wrong and it was a big mistake. At the same time I also understand that at this point there is zero chance of them dumping the current system (mistake or not). 

 

Dupes of POIs is one of the things they worked hard on for A20. Hopefully you won't see much of it if at all. With over 145 new POI's in addition to the new POI's A19 added there should be a good variety in A20. If you do see 3 clone POI's all lined up on the same block then definitely do post a picture of it along with your map's seed and the location and post it in the A20 bug pool once that opens.

[Boidster]

2 minutes ago, Roland said:

Before I answer, I want to state that I loved the infinite maps and was personally very forgiving of hiccups and odd moments where new chunks needed to load in order to have infinite maps and in no way was in favor of giving those up.

 

Now let me explain: <long defense of stupid tiny maps deleted>

 

Y U like small maps tho? 

[warmer]

1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

It´s on the offical homepage, right on top. Also i believe it´s in the offical trailers and videos, not sure about that tough. @warmer

 

Edit: You even posted the link. It says "The Survival Horde Crafting Game" in big red letters. And it is in the offical trailer right at the end.

Well that's interesting, it's not actually in print anywhere. It's a picture, hence not searchable. I wonder why they don't use that word anywhere in the description...

[Roland]

1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Well ok. Explaining would be to tell why it is that way. But saying it can´t be changed due to minimum specs when those are outdated and that part of players isn´t even 5%, is defending it.

 

I never said it can't be changed. I never even said that I hope they never change it. In fact, I went back and read my posts in this thread and I actually said that I hope that they do change it but it isn't up to me. My original statement was a simple one of fact to answer the question of "Why do we have empty worlds when modders can easily add tons of zombies?". 

 

Now you seem to be asking "Will the devs ever re-evaluate the minimum requirements of this game and perhaps make design decisions based upon a higher standard?" to which I can only give my opinion that I do hope that they will and my own assumption that as they get nearer to gold release they will surely look at it and make a decision. I will also add that the currently listed specs are not the same as originally posted back in 2013. They have changed at least twice so it seems likely that they will probably change again.

 

But I have no idea when and I do always defend their right to set their own priorities. You got me there.

2 minutes ago, warmer said:

Well that's interesting, it's not actually in print anywhere. It's a picture, hence not searchable. I wonder why they don't use that word anywhere in the description...

too controversial...

[pApA^LeGBa]

Say, did you not realize that i had a conversation with meganoth and not with you?

[Roland]

1 minute ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Say, did you not realize that i had a conversation with meganoth and not with you?

 

Are you saying that Mega was defending? What a @%$#ing White Knight!!

[pApA^LeGBa]

Now that´s funny. Not. In fact i got called that lot on the steam forums, same with fanboy. But why do you bring up that term now? It wasn´t mentioned anywhere here. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

44 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Now that´s funny. Not. In fact i got called that lot on the steam forums, same with fanboy. But why do you bring up that term now? It wasn´t mentioned anywhere here. 

white knight is a common phrase in English