What is 7 days to die?

[Ashlockheart]

I am confused about 7 days to die. When I play the game it feels like a survival game at times, but once you get items, and other things it feels like first person shooter, or Skyrim RPG.

What is 7 days to die at its core? I want to say its a survival game because they got the creepy mood down, but so many things shift when you play it for long amount of hours. So what kind of game is 7 days to die? I just want to stop being so confused when the game gets updated, and I play it for long amounts of times. 

[meganoth]

Since the game is supposed to be a mix of several genres (survival, shooter, tower defense and minecraft-type builder game) you probably will continue to be confused until you drop the attempt to put this game into one single category 😉

 

[unholyjoe]

1 hour ago, Ashlockheart said:

I am confused about 7 days to die. When I play the game it feels like a survival game at times, but once you get items, and other things it feels like first person shooter, or Skyrim RPG.

What is 7 days to die at its core? I want to say its a survival game because they got the creepy mood down, but so many things shift when you play it for long amount of hours. So what kind of game is 7 days to die? I just want to stop being so confused when the game gets updated, and I play it for long amounts of times. 

first paragraph says it all but feel free to read it all enjoy

https://7daystodie.com/

[Maharin]

What Meganoth said... it doesn't fit any single category which is exactly what it was aiming for.  Each play through can be a very different game and as you gain knowledge your game play will also change.  You can adjust so many things and mod most of what can't be adjusted in game with simple XML edits.  You can install mods other people have made if making them isn't your thing.

 

Asking what 7DTD is, is like asking a huge wad of molding clay what it is.  There is no answer that lasts longer than your desire to change things up a bit.

[Ashlockheart]

19 hours ago, meganoth said:

Since the game is supposed to be a mix of several genres (survival, shooter, tower defense and minecraft-type builder game) you probably will continue to be confused until you drop the attempt to put this game into one single category 😉

 

Well the main important reason why I will keep trying to put the game in a category is because of balance, and it is too easy to throw the game off of what made the game fun, and pulling people into it. One update could put the game into full Minecraft mode, and it would take a few years of updates to pull it back down to survival. Another update could put the game into full RPG Skyrim, and it would take a few years to pull the game back into Shooter/Survival, and vice versa. Every game has at least a main core to it even if the game does more than one category so its easyer to keep the game developed on the correct direction, and its less likely to rear off road, and throw the game in a very bad state that would take a long time to pull out of. Mixing things up is great but one of the category's is the correct one that made the game popular, and held peoples interest. So I will always keep asking what the main category is because I am sure the devs did pick one. It would be weird for devs to make a game that they don't know what type they dreamed of making.

[Kyonshi]

1 hour ago, Ashlockheart said:

Well the main important reason why I will keep trying to put the game in a category is because of balance, and it is too easy to throw the game off of what made the game fun, and pulling people into it. One update could put the game into full Minecraft mode, and it would take a few years of updates to pull it back down to survival. Another update could put the game into full RPG Skyrim, and it would take a few years to pull the game back into Shooter/Survival, and vice versa. Every game has at least a main core to it even if the game does more than one category so its easyer to keep the game developed on the correct direction, and its less likely to rear off road, and throw the game in a very bad state that would take a long time to pull out of. Mixing things up is great but one of the category's is the correct one that made the game popular, and held peoples interest. So I will always keep asking what the main category is because I am sure the devs did pick one. It would be weird for devs to make a game that they don't know what type they dreamed of making.

Let me help you on this. Oh its nothing, dont mention it 😉

 

"7 Days to Die is an open-world game that is a unique combination of first person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games."

 

There you go. This is what the developers decided for their game. Its a combination of genres and there isnt one that's really dominating another. You are legitimately free to speculate as much as you want about what you think the game is, but you wont have the last word on that point, the devs do. This is how they want their game to be and you or anyone else is in position to lecture them about it or think in their place.

 

Have fun!

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, Ashlockheart said:

Well the main important reason why I will keep trying to put the game in a category is because of balance, and it is too easy to throw the game off of what made the game fun, and pulling people into it. One update could put the game into full Minecraft mode, and it would take a few years of updates to pull it back down to survival. Another update could put the game into full RPG Skyrim, and it would take a few years to pull the game back into Shooter/Survival, and vice versa. Every game has at least a main core to it even if the game does more than one category so its easyer to keep the game developed on the correct direction, and its less likely to rear off road, and throw the game in a very bad state that would take a long time to pull out of. Mixing things up is great but one of the category's is the correct one that made the game popular, and held peoples interest. So I will always keep asking what the main category is because I am sure the devs did pick one. It would be weird for devs to make a game that they don't know what type they dreamed of making.

 

As Kyonshi said the devs might think differently. You can speculate that they secretly don't and picked one, but are you really sure every dev picked the same? 😉

 

I also don't think that one update could make the game so lopsided that it can't be pulled back, not anymore. The simple fact is that the game is nearly finished and new features will only be added to the game, not transfoming it anymore. Transformation happened until A17. Whatever a new feature changes it can be balanced to not matter anymore if it proves disruptive.

 

The game was made popular because it was a mix. Proof of that is that lots of forum users post their opinion that the game should be more of one of the genres. So there are lots of people who think this should be more of a survival game. There are others who think they need more guns because they play it as a shooter. And there are the builders who sometimes even ask why the zombies are so impertinent to disturb them in their building activities 😉

And we have actual roleplayers here AND people so fixed on XP that they forget to play the game 😄

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[JCrook1028]

4 hours ago, Ashlockheart said:

Well the main important reason why I will keep trying to put the game in a category is because of balance, and it is too easy to throw the game off of what made the game fun, and pulling people into it. One update could put the game into full Minecraft mode, and it would take a few years of updates to pull it back down to survival. Another update could put the game into full RPG Skyrim, and it would take a few years to pull the game back into Shooter/Survival, and vice versa. Every game has at least a main core to it even if the game does more than one category so its easyer to keep the game developed on the correct direction, and its less likely to rear off road, and throw the game in a very bad state that would take a long time to pull out of. Mixing things up is great but one of the category's is the correct one that made the game popular, and held peoples interest. So I will always keep asking what the main category is because I am sure the devs did pick one. It would be weird for devs to make a game that they don't know what type they dreamed of making.

I'd say TFP have done a magnificent job of pulling people in and keeping them interested. How many other games do people play for thousands of hours? Pigeon holing 7dtd would destroy it. Leave it a beautiful jumbled up mix of genres and never even think of trying to define it would be my advice.

[Roland]

3 hours ago, Ashlockheart said:

Well the main important reason why I will keep trying to put the game in a category is because of balance, and it is too easy to throw the game off of what made the game fun, and pulling people into it.

That's really not your responsibility so don't stress over it. Your responsibility is to play what is released and find the fun you like to have with it. You could ask five different people what kind of game this is and they will give you five different answers and all feel like they are having fun. If you are having fun with this game as a survival game but then someone tells you it is actually a shooter so you try and play it that way and then don't feel like you are having as much fun then just stop playing it that way and go back to the way you like to play.

3 hours ago, Ashlockheart said:

One update could put the game into full Minecraft mode, and it would take a few years of updates to pull it back down to survival. Another update could put the game into full RPG Skyrim, and it would take a few years to pull the game back into Shooter/Survival, and vice versa.

Its true that as the devs have developed 7 Days to Die certain updates have emphasized one aspect of its hybrid nature. But no update has pulled it so far to one single way to play it that it has taken years to settle back into hybrid territory. In my experience, the game has maintained its emphasis on survival, RPG, and tower defense ever since they started adding RPG elements in about Alpha 11.

3 hours ago, Ashlockheart said:

Every game has at least a main core to it even if the game does more than one category so its easyer to keep the game developed on the correct direction, and its less likely to rear off road, and throw the game in a very bad state that would take a long time to pull out of.

Sounds like a misconception to me. Or maybe it is every game but one: this one. I think this game has three main cores: Survival, RPG, Tower Defense and I believe the devs have kept those three anchors in place pretty well throughout development-- or at least since Alpha 11. What is interesting is that beginning with Alpha 11 there began to be a huge dissatisfaction from the PvP segment of the community who noticed that things like character progression and tiers of weaponry that were not equally available to everyone from the start really created unfair situations and they wanted TFP to maintain a balanced PvP experience. But, TFP never invisioned this game first and foremost as a PVP shooter and as time went on the game diverged more and more from a game that worked well for PVP. Alpha 10 really was the pinnacle of PvP gameplay before the RPG elements became a stronger and stronger influence on the game.

3 hours ago, Ashlockheart said:

Mixing things up is great but one of the category's is the correct one that made the game popular, and held peoples interest. So I will always keep asking what the main category is because I am sure the devs did pick one. It would be weird for devs to make a game that they don't know what type they dreamed of making.

No. The devs from the very beginning stated they were making a game that was "Minecraft meets Fallout meets The Walking Dead". They dreamed of making that game and so it is a hybrid and not one single genre. The fact that you are confused about what the game is because you think it must be one and we all understand perfectly because we accept that it is plural should be proof enough for you. You have always believed that it is impossible for there to be a decent game that splits its focus between more than one genre but I say that something is only impossible until someone proves that it actually is possible.

 

Witness history in the making.

[Ashlockheart]

58 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

As Kyonshi said the devs might think differently. You can speculate that they secretly don't and picked one, but are you really sure every dev picked the same? 😉

 

I also don't think that one update could make the game so lopsided that it can't be pulled back, not anymore. The simple fact is that the game is nearly finished and new features will only be added to the game, not transfoming it anymore. Transformation happened until A17. Whatever a new feature changes it can be balanced to not matter anymore if it proves disruptive.

 

The game was made popular because it was a mix. Proof of that is that lots of forum users post their opinion that the game should be more of one of the genres. So there are lots of people who think this should be more of a survival game. There are others who think they need more guns because they play it as a shooter. And there are the builders who sometimes even ask why the zombies are so impertinent to disturb them in their building activities 😉

And we have actual roleplayers here AND people so fixed on XP that they forget to play the game 😄

 

 

 

 

Oh I am 100% positive the devs did pick a main core category for the game. Like I said in the main post I am leaning towards it being survival, and that's fine. I have no issues with the game being half this or half that, but for the game not to have a main core foundation makes no sense, and that will lead to other issues.

[Blake_]

Rick and Joel always said that they wanted a "The Walking Dead" simulator but "gamey". So they made their dream rpg survival with every builder, tower defence or whatever feature that they love into one package. The best games out there have a lot of genres mixed together, but few do a mix-up with raw fun in mind and rather get lost in the details. In a sense this game is unique in that alone.

[Ashlockheart]

19 minutes ago, Roland said:

That's really not your responsibility so don't stress over it. Your responsibility is to play what is released and find the fun you like to have with it. You could ask five different people what kind of game this is and they will give you five different answers and all feel like they are having fun. If you are having fun with this game as a survival game but then someone tells you it is actually a shooter so you try and play it that way and then don't feel like you are having as much fun then just stop playing it that way and go back to the way you like to play.

Its true that as the devs have developed 7 Days to Die certain updates have emphasized one aspect of its hybrid nature. But no update has pulled it so far to one single way to play it that it has taken years to settle back into hybrid territory. In my experience, the game has maintained its emphasis on survival, RPG, and tower defense ever since they started adding RPG elements in about Alpha 11.

Sounds like a misconception to me. Or maybe it is every game but one: this one. I think this game has three main cores: Survival, RPG, Tower Defense and I believe the devs have kept those three anchors in place pretty well throughout development-- or at least since Alpha 11. What is interesting is that beginning with Alpha 11 there began to be a huge dissatisfaction from the PvP segment of the community who noticed that things like character progression and tiers of weaponry that were not equally available to everyone from the start really created unfair situations and they wanted TFP to maintain a balanced PvP experience. But, TFP never invisioned this game first and foremost as a PVP shooter and as time went on the game diverged more and more from a game that worked well for PVP. Alpha 10 really was the pinnacle of PvP gameplay before the RPG elements became a stronger and stronger influence on the game.

No. The devs from the very beginning stated they were making a game that was "Minecraft meets Fallout meets The Walking Dead". They dreamed of making that game and so it is a hybrid and not one single genre. The fact that you are confused about what the game is because you think it must be one and we all understand perfectly because we accept that it is plural should be proof enough for you. You have always believed that it is impossible for there to be a decent game that splits its focus between more than one genre but I say that something is only impossible until someone proves that it actually is possible.

 

Witness history in the making.

 

I am not stressing over the game, or devs for sure, My responsibility is for me to decide, or feel how ever I want. Telling me my responsibility is to do what ever your telling me is some very very bad wording for sure, but I will let those things slide. I do enjoy the game very much, but I know for sure it has a core foundation category to it, and I was only wonder which one is was. Never cared which one they did choose, but I know for sure when it comes to developing a video game all games have a foundation to start on.

[Roland]

37 minutes ago, Ashlockheart said:

but I know for sure when it comes to developing a video game all games have a foundation to start on.

And THIS foundation has three platforms.

 

1 hour ago, Ashlockheart said:

Oh I am 100% positive the devs did pick a main core category for the game.

I'm 1000% positive they picked three. (being privy to their development meetings and all)

 

37 minutes ago, Ashlockheart said:

but I know for sure it has a core foundation category to it, and I was only wonder which one is was. Never cared which one they did choose

Good to know you don't care since there are three and whichever one of those three YOU pick for your own focus makes you correct for you. In other words if "What is the core foundation of 7 Days to Die" was a multiple choice question and the answers were A) Survival   B) RPG    C)Tower Defense   you could pick whichever the of the three you wanted and you would be correct unless there was a D) All of the above and then that would be the only correct answer.

 

If in your experience no other game has been able to do this then your experience has now been broadened.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Roland (see edit history)

[Maharin]

Roland vs. playerthatthinkstheyknoweverything

 

My money is on Roland.

[Roland]

I do like it a lot better when people come here to ask questions hoping to learn something rather than asking questions that they already believe they know the answers to...

 

Must be the teacher in me.

 

There are two philosophies about experiencing something you previously thought was impossible:

 

1) "Wow, that's amazing! I need to reassess what I thought was possible."

2) "I know that's impossible therefore there must be an explanation within the realm of what I already believe to be possible."

 

The first leads to growth and new knowledge. The second leads to stagnation and status quo. The first is risky because maybe you are being duped. The second is safe because you don't have to change your perspective. But if you believe the first and end up being wrong then you simply return to your previous state of "what is possible" and if you are right then your idea of what is possible expands. If you go with the second then you will always remain limited to your current pool of knowledge.

 

 

[Ashlockheart]

21 minutes ago, Maharin said:

Roland vs. playerthatthinkstheyknoweverything

 

My money is on Roland.

 

1 hour ago, Roland said:

And THIS foundation has three platforms.

 

I'm 1000% positive they picked three. (being privy to their development meetings and all)

 

Good to know you don't care since there are three and whichever one of those three YOU pick for your own focus makes you correct for you. In other words if "What is the core foundation of 7 Days to Die" was a multiple choice question and the answers were A) Survival   B) RPG    C)Tower Defense   you could pick whichever the of the three you wanted and you would be correct unless there was a D) All of the above and then that would be the only correct answer.

 

If in your experience no other game has been able to do this then your experience has now been broadened.

Well if the devs tell me its three sounds good to me, but I will put money down it was one when they started, and built off of that to the next one.

[Roland]

I will say that from the beginning they wanted RPG elements but it wasn't until Alpha 11 that they started really implementing them so for the first 10 alphas the game was mostly survival and tower defense. Since Alpha 11 the RPG aspect has grown in its footprint on the game. So in implementation you could say that they have moved from one to the other. 

 

[Maharin]

28 minutes ago, Ashlockheart said:

 

Well if the devs tell me its three sounds good to me, but I will put money down it was one when they started, and built off of that to the next one.

 

This game is still in alpha, not even beta.  It does not have all of the features, let alone full balancing of the features in place.  If you want to nitpick the timeline and order of implementation I'm sure you will find all the proof you're looking for.  Not that it will mean anything.

[Kyonshi]

Ok TC what are you trying to prove here with that arrogant attitude?

 

Is your life so boring that you need to argue about something upon which you've made no gains whatsoever since you posted that topic?

 

Roland is among the most knowledgeable persons who are in direct contact with the very founders of this game and you keep nagging him about what's true or not. Do you realize how exceptional it is to have such detailed pieces of info available on a video game and how the developers conduct said game, from core game design concepts to how it happens for the users? You've been given answers in the most formal and factual form possible and you still stubbornly @%$# about it.

 

You said that you'll let slide whatever people are telling you about the way you should take the game on, in other words you dont like poeple telling you how to think, or thinking at your place, yet your act exactly that way towards the devs. Check your contradictions, champ.

 

Get off your high horses and put a lid on it. The game's been said to be a playable form of The Walking Dead by the founders and if you take it literaly, it is a playable Walking Dead. Survival horror, like the characters dwelve into. Tower-defense, like they do at the Prison and in Alexandria. And RPG, because most of the main characters are proefficient in a particular skillset or field of knowledge. So there you go, three bases that defines 7DTD.

[Roland]

Lets all relax. We all agree that the game is mixed genre and if it helps someone enjoy playing because they believe that out of that mixture there is one dominant genre that the game follows with the rest being sub-genres, there is no harm in that. We don't have to analyze things down to the hundredth of a percent as to whether survival, RPG, and Tower Defense are all at 33.33% represented in the game or if they were all equally in the minds of Joel and Rick when they dreamed it up.

 

I'm sorry for my part in quibbling about whether it is one or three or whatever. My main interest in this conversation is the notion of whether it truly is or is not impossible to develop a game from the start as a true hybrid or whether as the OP asserts you MUST start with one genre and then add in other genres as you go. I don't agree with the OP on this and from my vantage point, I really do feel that the developers have had this mixture of Minecraft (survival, crafting, exploration) Fallout (RPG in an apocalyptic world) and The Walking Dead (Base defense from unending zombies) firmly in their minds from the very beginning. Even though they put off adding the RPG elements for a bit, they were most definitely advertised in the kickstarter campaign at the start.

 

If there have not been very many (if any?) games that have been a well executed mashup like this one in the past then I submit that this game is the ceiling breaker on development of hybrid genres that busts the myth that game developers must focus on one single platform for the game to be successful. 

[Kyonshi]

Why do you apoligize? You dont have to, but you do you. The person who should apoligize in the first place should be the TC.

 

Indeed, there's absolutely nothing wrong with discussing what defines 7DTD. But when a smartass barges in and claim he knows better than the very guys from whom the game came to life, who elevates his speculations as facts, its kinda @%$#ing annoying. Like its not enough, he doubles down by keeping denying the evidence after being told so from a sure source. He's wasting our time and his own.

 

I've read so much about people giving @%$# to the Pimps, for the most imbecile reasons, that i guess i dont have a large patience gauge anymore. Whatever. Not sorry.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Kyonshi (see edit history)

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Kyonshi said:

Why do you apoligize? You dont have to, but you do you. The person who should apoligize in the first place should be the TC.

 

Indeed, there's absolutely nothing wrong with discussing what defines 7DTD. But when a smartass barges in and claim he knows better than the very guys from whom the game came to life, who elevates his speculations as facts, its kinda @%$#ing annoying. Like its not enough, he doubles down by keeping denying the evidence after being told so from a sure source. He's wasting our time and his own.

 

I've read so much about people giving @%$# to the Pimps, for the most imbecile reasons, that i guess i dont have a large patience gauge anymore. Whatever. Not sorry.

 

Sorry, but even if Roland heard every conversation in developer meetings since alpha 1 he still can't say with 100% confidence what happened in the minds of Madmole and his brother when they conceived the game. All the evidence only shows what happened after their idea already had formed.

 

Now he definitely doesn't know better and I find the theory that a game idea MUST start at one genre fairly ridiculous. If the human mind were that limited it would be almost impossible to invent new genres. But because we don't have any mind readers a proof is almost impossible either way.

 

So: Wasting our time? Sure. Anyone giving @%$# to the Pimps? You are finding insults where none are. What does it matter if they ticked off genres one after the other or immediately came up with two or three genres they wanted to mix?

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Kyonshi]

3 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

So: Wasting our time? Sure. Anyone giving @%$# to the Pimps? You are finding insults where none are. What does it matter if they ticked off genres one after the other or immediately came up with two or three genres they wanted to mix?

 

 

 

Im talking about the insults i see plenty on the 7DTD Facebook publications, not here. TC didnt insult anyone here but he came across borderline being insolent, afaic.

Roland is not omniscient regarding what Rick and Joel really had in mind back then, you're right, but we can all agree that if he reports something that the founders said about the game, its a pretty well credible statement. I dont think he would make things up just to sustain his point, he clearly doesnt look like that.

Indeed, doesnt really matter what came up first, if its a single genre or three of them at once, as far as the question is only that. But what we know is that the Pimps mentioned three concepts and i dont see why someone would make a fuzz about this being an issue, even more when that person claims that every update messes up what the game should be and that its confusing and whatnot. Which is completely false. This is pointless, dumb and really a non-issue. TC is going nowhere with all this.

[Roland]

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

he still can't say with 100% confidence what happened

I never claimed 100%. I believe it was 1000%.

[meganoth]

9 hours ago, Kyonshi said:

Im talking about the insults i see plenty on the 7DTD Facebook publications, not here. TC didnt insult anyone here but he came across borderline being insolent, afaic.

Roland is not omniscient regarding what Rick and Joel really had in mind back then, you're right, but we can all agree that if he reports something that the founders said about the game, its a pretty well credible statement. I dont think he would make things up just to sustain his point, he clearly doesnt look like that.

Indeed, doesnt really matter what came up first, if its a single genre or three of them at once, as far as the question is only that. But what we know is that the Pimps mentioned three concepts and i dont see why someone would make a fuzz about this being an issue, even more when that person claims that every update messes up what the game should be and that its confusing and whatnot. Which is completely false. This is pointless, dumb and really a non-issue. TC is going nowhere with all this.

 

But thats the point. The TC said it was just an academic point for him ("I am not stressing over the game, or devs for sure, My responsibility is for me to decide, or feel how ever I want. ... and I was only wonder which one is was."). So this was like talking about the weather tomorrow and you associate him with some idiots on Facebook and act very confrontational up to an ad-hominem. If we did that to all first-time posters, a lot of regulars wouldn't be here, 50% of first time posts are rather sub-par I would say. Nay, 500% of them 😉

 

Rolands 1000% got me thinking, because something about that number seems wrong, I just can't put my finger on it 😁. I am surprised he did not add minecraft-type builder to the three genres he think were first. Did that really come later as a consequence of the tower-defense part needing some build capability ?