Duke to Brass ratio needs to be seriously nerfed

[Ghostlight]

Also mining under a surface Iron node is the most efficient way to get Iron by literally a factor of 100x or more.

 

How about addressing this quote I made above, since it's on topic? There are endless examples of methods in the game to gain a particular resource that are massively more efficient than the many other available methods for getting the same resources. What's the big deal? Why aren't you complaining that the amount of Iron you can get in an in-game hour or two mining is OP compared to looting Iron-based crap in houses and scrapping it? Mining is far less effort than looting for Iron and probably 100x more efficient, never mind 10x. Help ma boab! It's OP! Nerf Nerf nerf.

 

And again, dukes melted for Brass are dukes not spent on other often very game-changing items. That is a huge deal.

[OzHawkeye]

How about addressing this quote I made above, since it's on topic? There are endless examples of methods in the game to gain a particular resource that are massively more efficient than the many other available methods for getting the same resources. What's the big deal?

 

And again, dukes melted for Brass are dukes not spent on other often very game-changing items.

 

Well, addressing this and your prior post both:

 

1. Game is balanced around default difficulty as has been mentioned before, and on default difficulty I can say for sure, that I'm awash in Dukes and that it has effectively rendered Brass an infinite resource.

 

2. No doubt there are other balance issues in A18, and hopefully they all get looked at, but that has no bearing on whether this particular one needs attention or not.

[Brian9824]

I love how you assume we miss instead of assuming we are facing far tougher enemies.

 

I actually tested this on the big irradiated bikers (which is by far the most common enemy we face). You cannot kill them with a tier 5 baseball bat, fully modded, 5/5 Pummel Pete without rad remover. They regen too many HP. You think if melee was viable I'd be using bullets? Try a dozen of them at a time with melee. Although having said that, Irradiated Spiders are the toughest enemy in the game.

 

I'll agree to disagree with you then. However as its been said numerous times you are not playing on the standard settings which the game is balanced for. If you wish to make it harder then that's your choice. The game is balanced around the default settings, and with those settings its not balanced.

 

I mean heck, I could set the game to the easiest setting and say all zombies should be buffed because its too easy and that would be just as wrong.

[Brian9824]

How about addressing this quote I made above, since it's on topic? There are endless examples of methods in the game to gain a particular resource that are massively more efficient than the many other available methods for getting the same resources. What's the big deal? Why aren't you complaining the amount of Iron you cam get in an in-game hour or two mining is OP compared to looting Iron crap in houses and scrapping it? Mining is far less effort to boot and probably 100x more efficient never mind 10x. Help ma boab! It's OP! Nerf Nerf nerf.

 

What do you want me to address? That mining iron is the most efficient way to get iron? Ok sure.

 

If im in a group of 5 people do I all of a sudden get 5x the iron for the same amount of work?

Do I get 13k bonus xp every time I mine Iron?

Do I get dozens of loot chests and containers every time I mine Iron?

Do I get bonus items for mining iron as a reward?

 

No, didn't think so. Also Mining those i-beams, destroyed stone, blue pallets for cement/cobblestone, etc are all just as good as mining rocks for instance. Looting and scrapping also generates a ton of iron and gives you loot that can be used to get brass, or to gear yourself up so that's another method that's quite profitable as well.

 

The entire point you keep refusing to address is that the quests are in part OP because its not JUST brass you get. You get

 

1. Dukes (brass)

2. An entire huge POI filled with loot reset and all the loot in it

3. XP from the quest

4. ADDITIONAL items as a reward when done

 

And those rewards unlike every other activity are MULTIPLED by the number of people in your group for #1,3, and 4. Which makes it even more imbalanced when you do it with others.

[Sjustus548]

Every item in the game can be harvested infinitely in one form or another. Just because you can harvest brass faster in one form than you can another does that really even mean anything? You can make a ton of brass casings but you will still be gated by how much gun powder and lead you can craft. We don't smelt dukes down to brass and we still have more brass and casings than we know what to do with. I can go out mining for 15 minutes and have 30k iron, lead, coal, or nitrate, sometimes multiple of these. Until they go thru and make everything more scarce I don't see a point in just focusing on one way to get brass.

[Kalen]

Every item in the game can be harvested infinitely in one form or another. Just because you can harvest brass faster in one form than you can another does that really even mean anything? You can make a ton of brass casings but you will still be gated by how much gun powder and lead you can craft. We don't smelt dukes down to brass and we still have more brass and casings than we know what to do with. I can go out mining for 15 minutes and have 30k iron, lead, coal, or nitrate, sometimes multiple of these. Until they go thru and make everything more scarce I don't see a point in just focusing on one way to get brass.

 

The problem is that in a normal game (ie. default settings) it doesn't take all that long or all that much effort to amass thousands (even hundreds of thousands) of dukes, making brass practically infinite. You're correct in that brass, by itself, isn't all that useful.... but, it should be a little harder to accumulate than it is.

[Kattla]

Why spend the bullets when you can just whack 'em over the head?

 

I only use guns when I have to.

 

Aye, and by doing so, you save a LOT of ammo and potential dukes. Because, melee don't use ammo, a couple repair kits perhaps, while a gun user have the cost of lead, nitrate and coal and brass + the time to put all this together.

 

If we are to balance this properly, melee users would have to have their quest rewards severly reduced, down to like 10%, or melee need a SERIOUS nerf, for the simple reason it is so cost effective vs ranged.

 

I do not want to see that happen, since thanks to the dukes beeing smeltable and the ratio is good, guns are finally becoming a viable alternative to melee. If we are to nerf the brass ratio tenfold as op suggested, we would have to find a way to nerf melee by at least the same.

 

You see?

[Kalen]

Aye, and by doing so, you save a LOT of ammo and potential dukes. Because, melee don't use ammo, a couple repair kits perhaps, while a gun user have the cost of lead, nitrate and coal and brass + the time to put all this together.

 

If we are to balance this properly, melee users would have to have their quest rewards severly reduced, down to like 10%, or melee need a SERIOUS nerf, for the simple reason it is so cost effective vs ranged.

 

I do not want to see that happen, since thanks to the dukes beeing smeltable and the ratio is good, guns are finally becoming a viable alternative to melee. If we are to nerf the brass ratio tenfold as op suggested, we would have to find a way to nerf melee by at least the same.

 

You see?

 

Not really, if I had to smelt 10 dukes for 1 brass instead of 1 for 1, I still would have plenty of ammo.

[Kattla]

Not really, if I had to smelt 10 dukes for 1 brass instead of 1 for 1, I still would have plenty of ammo.

 

But if you melee, you don't have to smelt them at all.

[Kalen]

But if you melee, you don't have to smelt them at all.

 

I'm not sure pure melee is viable for most people. Bullets are needed for horde nights, at the very least.

[Brian9824]

Aye, and by doing so, you save a LOT of ammo and potential dukes. Because, melee don't use ammo, a couple repair kits perhaps, while a gun user have the cost of lead, nitrate and coal and brass + the time to put all this together.

 

If we are to balance this properly, melee users would have to have their quest rewards severly reduced, down to like 10%, or melee need a SERIOUS nerf, for the simple reason it is so cost effective vs ranged.

 

I do not want to see that happen, since thanks to the dukes beeing smeltable and the ratio is good, guns are finally becoming a viable alternative to melee. If we are to nerf the brass ratio tenfold as op suggested, we would have to find a way to nerf melee by at least the same.

 

You see?

 

The balance doesn't really involve melee vs ranged. That's balanced by more risk for instance. Madmole has even stated many times during A18 that guns really come into play during the hordes where melee is less feasible. If someone wants to use a gun and not be ammo efficient you don't balance against that anymore then you would balance against someone not wanting to wear armor.

 

I mean I could make the argument that since you can melee quests they should make all the zombies in quests armored so you HAVE to use bullets because its unbalanced.

 

Or I can say that guns are unbalanced because people don't get hit using them so guns should randomly jam so gun users get hit and have to use meds

 

Or I can say that people who use guns shouldn't get health regen or any other random argument to try to play to 1 hypothetical scenario that someone drafts up. You can always make an argument that in some scenario something will be overpowered.

 

What does matter is the basic facts. That on the standard difficulty 1 quest gives you in excess of 2000 casings. If done in a group that can easily turn into 10,000 casings for a single quest. Then on top of that you get 5 purple items, nearly 80k xp between your group, and all the loot in a huge POI reset.

 

Think about that. On standard in which you might use a few hundred rounds of ammo at most, you can get enough brass in 1 quest to make 10,000 more bullets.

 

There are lots of ways to balance it as i mentioned. Making the quests more complicated for one. Or making fetch quests more involved at higher tier's so they aren't so fast for instance or changing how the rewards work for shared quests, but I guess you didn't actually read the posts and what was discussed or you would have seen that. Heck you could also make quest rewards scale with difficulty too. So doing quests on higher difficulties give more dukes.

[OzHawkeye]

Aye, and by doing so, you save a LOT of ammo and potential dukes. Because, melee don't use ammo, a couple repair kits perhaps, while a gun user have the cost of lead, nitrate and coal and brass + the time to put all this together.

 

If we are to balance this properly, melee users would have to have their quest rewards severly reduced, down to like 10%, or melee need a SERIOUS nerf, for the simple reason it is so cost effective vs ranged.

 

I do not want to see that happen, since thanks to the dukes beeing smeltable and the ratio is good, guns are finally becoming a viable alternative to melee. If we are to nerf the brass ratio tenfold as op suggested, we would have to find a way to nerf melee by at least the same.

 

You see?

 

Not in the slightest - melee is being rewarded for something ranged don't have - the risk associated with getting up close and personal with Zeek.

 

The game should be incentivising people to melee where they can, through the mechanic of lower ongoing costs (no ammunition expenditure), otherwise, melee becomes almost pointless, when you can just pop everything off without risk from 50 meters away.

 

Not withstanding that there are other balance issues in the game, brass should be limited such that you can't just use guns all the time.

[Brian9824]

Not withstanding that there are other balance issues in the game, brass should be limited such that you can just use guns all the time.

 

Did you mean to say can't use guns all the time?

 

If so yeah I agree and i think thats what madmole was saying when the alpha first dropped that he personally saved as much ammo as possible for hordes because that is where it was really needed.

[OzHawkeye]

Did you mean to say can't use guns all the time?

 

If so yeah I agree and i think thats what madmole was saying when the alpha first dropped that he personally saved as much ammo as possible for hordes because that is where it was really needed.

 

Yep, missed the 't.

 

Corrected it now. Thanks. :-)

[Ghostlight]

Did you mean to say can't use guns all the time?

 

If so yeah I agree and i think thats what madmole was saying when the alpha first dropped that he personally saved as much ammo as possible for hordes because that is where it was really needed.

 

That's exactly how I play. I am absolutely a melee combat player. However, I don't know what GS you guys are looting tier 5s on, but a point comes when melee is simply no longer viable in POIs except on the odd small group which is rare. Your typical rooms are 12+ irradiated/feral. Outside horde night I try to never fire a single bullet....but where we are now we had to change that playstyle for t5 quests - melee doesn't cut it even when fully specced for it and with best melee items you can get. Baseball bat is my preferred, friend uses Sledge. Heck even top tier Pistols and Pumps won't cut it imo, you need AKs and or M60s and AP ammo. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE it, the combat is absolutely crazy, but we need a ♥♥♥♥-ton of Brass. A single tier 5 is as intense as horde night but we don't have the base and all our traps to back us up.

 

This is absolute end-game challenge level, there is nothing harder. It should give a huge reward (and take a ton of resource to boot).

[Ghostlight]

I mean I could make the argument that since you can melee quests they should make all the zombies in quests armored so you HAVE to use bullets because its unbalanced.

 

After about GS 600 the vast majority ARE armoured. And feral/ irradiated. You can't melee.

[Brian9824]

That's exactly how I play. I am absolutely a melee combat player. However, I don't know what GS you guys are looting tier 5s on, but a point comes when melee is simply no longer viable in POIs except on the odd small group which is rare. Your typical rooms are 12+ irradiated/feral. Outside horde night I try to never fire a single bullet....but where we are now we had to change that playstyle for t5 quests - melee doesn't cut it even when fully specced for it and with best melee items you can get. Baseball bat is my preferred, friend uses Sledge. Heck even top tier Pistols and Pumps won't cut it imo, you need AKs and or M60s and AP ammo. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE it, the combat is absolutely crazy, but we need a ♥♥♥♥-ton of Brass. A single tier 5 is as intense as horde night but we don't have the base and all our traps to back us up.

 

This is absolute end-game challenge level, there is nothing harder. It should give a huge reward (and take a ton of resource to boot).

 

Again, your playing on insane, that multiplies the gamestage significantly. You can't jack up the difficulty to the hardest difficulty and expect the game to be balanced around you. They balance it around the standard default setting and then your free to modify it to make it easier or harder.

 

I mean all your responses to the various people that are in agreement on this is based on YOUR game on the highest difficulty. Sorry, but the game doesn't revolve around you. Other people play with different settings and it has to be balanced for more then just you.

[Jaxsom]

As a relatively new-ish player, only 950 or so hours played mostly in MP, I'd like to chime in and remind us all that part of the balancing that is done is for the new players. We all tend to forget that we have HOURS invested and know how to work the system. New players don't. When starting a new game the fact that Dukes can be smelted makes worlds of difference before other sources of brass can be found/utilized. Not saying this is perfectly balanced but keep in mind that not all players know all the tricks and that most new folks don't find out some of those tricks for a long time. I personally was astounded to find out Dukes could be smelted at all.

 

Just my 2 cents, thank you for your time.

[bobrpggamer]

Thats actually the problem, not the dukes to brass. Believe it or not Ghostlight is kinda playing the game as it's supposed to be when it is finished (albiet on masochist mode). I don't play the same, just to be fair, I use standard settings and cheese whiz like a swiss Cheese Monger.

See the game is designed and balanced around not using cheese. But cheese exist. The game is designed around the idea of going through a POI the proper way, not nerdpolling, not using horde night exploits and proper in design behavior by the player is unenforced...

And the cheese exist. Which makes the game a lot easier obviously. Horde nights can be safely ignored. Quest can be cheesed. Easy mode engaged.

 

The cheese will not always be there, thats what you gotta remember. We are playing Alpha, not even beta. It's called A18. The cheese is there really just to make sure we don't get stuck on the minutia while we test this out. Its going to get patched out at some point (most likely). We wont always be able to use frames as an elevator. We wont always be bale to make an endless loop horde staircases. At some point, were going to have to deal with these things directly, head on.

 

When that happens, 2 dukes per brass will not seem so generous.

 

Do you see?

I have got to know what the term cheese is supposed to mean, I see it a lot and I think you mentioned it 6 or more time in your post. I like cheese as a food so I do not get how the word cheese clarifies something.

 

Cheesy to me is 60s and 70s decorated homes with green paneling and furniture that what was meant to be hip back then and maybe leg warmers in the 80s and mullets or something, but in the game what does it signify? Something dumb? I am not trying to be funny, I really want to know what "cheese" is in the game. I am a CRPG game enjoyer and maybe I have not played enough new RPGs to understand, grinding and nerfing was also a new term I got accustomed to, grinding being what you do in a CRPG by getting into battles to up your characters stats, but back in the 80s and 90s this was call buffing up your character and nerfing, yeah nerfing, I had a nerf football back in the late 70s and played all I could with my fiends, so I could not really understand that one much either, I had to google it in Urban Dictionary to be honest

 

Man I envy you guys though, playing in MP with guys watching your back on quests, it sounds like the best way to play, I am kind of stuck with SP myself.

[Ghostlight]

Again, your playing on insane, that multiplies the gamestage significantly. You can't jack up the difficulty to the hardest difficulty and expect the game to be balanced around you. They balance it around the standard default setting and then your free to modify it to make it easier or harder.

 

I mean all your responses to the various people that are in agreement on this is based on YOUR game on the highest difficulty. Sorry, but the game doesn't revolve around you. Other people play with different settings and it has to be balanced for more then just you.

 

Everyone will face what I face sooner or later. At that point, when they spend 2000 rounds in a T5 because melee is no longer viable and every zombie is an irradiated Soldier and they come a dozen at a time, they won't be so quick to condemn the dukes/Brass ratio, I think.

 

I wasn't trying to ask for the game to be balanced round me, I was looking into your future and warning you to be careful what you wish for. Unless people give up on maps before their GS gets out of hand, their Brass requirement will simply rise and rise and rise. The only way is up. Just because the amount of Brass you are earning in T5's right now is OP in your eyes, I am simply warning you that most likely you will not always feel like that.

 

See what I've been getting at? You can't even balance round solo / default difficulty even if you wanted to, because then it depends on what GS that default solo player is on. GS 100 T5 quests and GS 500 T5 quests are VERY different experiences. 1 duke to 1 brass might be OP for the former, yet just fine or even lacking for the latter.

 

As an aside, I do have to question why the game would be balanced round solo play / default difficulty. Does anyone - other than brand new or terri-bad players - actually play at those settings? I seriously doubt it. For anyone with any kind of experience whatsoever playing this game, that would present absolutely ZERO challenge.

[Brian9824]

Everyone will face what I face sooner or later. At that point, when they spend 2000 rounds in a T5 because melee is no longer viable and every zombie is an irradiated Soldier and they come a dozen at a time, they won't be so quick to condemn the dukes/Brass ratio, I think. I wasn't trying to ask for the game to be balanced round me, I was looking into your future and warning you to be careful what you wish for. Unless people give up on maps before their GS gets out of hand, their Brass requirement will simply rise and rise and rise. Just because the amount of Brass you are earning in T5's right now is OP in your eyes, I am simply warning you that most likely you will not always feel like that.

 

See? You can't even balance round solo / default difficulty, because then it depends on what GS that defualt solo player is on. GS 100 T5's and GS 500 T5's are VERY different experiences.

 

I do have to question why the game would be balanced round solo play / default difficulty. Does anyone - other than brand new or terri-bad players - actually play at those settings? I seriously doubt it. For anyone with any kind of experience whatsoever playing this game, that would present absolutely ZERO challenge.

 

I have 2000+ hours in the game and have played post GS 500 in A18, and have played it modded for MORE zombie spawns, more hordes, less loot, less food, less meds, etc. Just because you have issues doesn't mean others don't. Again you keep ignoring everyone else and only using your own game which you have set to insane which does other things such as turns zombies into bullet sponges which is not the same experience other's will see. Playing it on insane more then DOUBLES the gamestage compared to the base difficulty the game is built upon so its going to be a drastic difference

 

Zombies on insane will require more bullets to kill then on the difficulties the game is balanced around at equivalent gamestages. That's a basic fact that can't be refuted. It's pretty clear that you have 0 intrest in actually taking the time to see anyone elses viewpoint other then your own so your entittled to your opinion.

 

Plenty of people here have a differing opinion then yours however, and the lead developer on the project has a differing opinion from you in what balance should be.

 

I do have to question why the game would be balanced round solo play / default difficulty. Does anyone - other than brand new or terri-bad players - actually play at those settings? I seriously doubt it. For anyone with any kind of experience whatsoever playing this game, that would present absolutely ZERO challenge.

 

I will comment on that part seperately. The new players are what keep the game alive and generate publicity for it. If the game is woefully imbalanced then their first impression will be the game is a joke and the reviews will reflect that.

 

Us experienced players we know how to tweak our game, how to use modlets to get a personalized experience and control the difficulty to make it balanced around how WE play it. Something new players can't do.

[Crater Creator]

I have got to know what the term cheese is supposed to mean, I see it a lot and I think you mentioned it 6 or more time in your post. I like cheese as a food so I do not get how the word cheese clarifies something.

 

Cheesy to me is 60s and 70s decorated homes with green paneling and furniture that what was meant to be hip back then and maybe leg warmers in the 80s and mullets or something, but in the game what does it signify? Something dumb? I am not trying to be funny, I really want to know what "cheese" is in the game. I am a CRPG game enjoyer and maybe I have not played enough new RPGs to understand, grinding and nerfing was also a new term I got accustomed to, grinding being what you do in a CRPG by getting into battles to up your characters stats, but back in the 80s and 90s this was call buffing up your character and nerfing, yeah nerfing, I had a nerf football back in the late 70s and played all I could with my fiends, so I could not really understand that one much either, I had to google it in Urban Dictionary to be honest

 

Man I envy you guys though, playing in MP with guys watching your back on quests, it sounds like the best way to play, I am kind of stuck with SP myself.

 

You've got the right idea. It's not really a wildly different definition for gaming. A technique is called cheesy if it's in obnoxiously bad taste. It's something that works, but you don't feel proud for doing it, and you may feel disgusted seeing other people do it. People frequently use cheese and exploit in the same discussion, and both may be unintentional and/or overpowered (OP) ways to play. For instance, most of the tricks a speed runner would use might be considered cheesy if performed in a 'normal' playthrough. Like other matters of taste, it can be highly subjective.

[Orclover]

I have got to know what the term cheese is supposed to mean, I see it a lot and I think you mentioned it 6 or more time in your post. I like cheese as a food so I do not get how the word cheese clarifies something.

 

Cheesy to me is 60s and 70s decorated homes with green paneling and furniture that what was meant to be hip back then and maybe leg warmers in the 80s and mullets or something, but in the game what does it signify? Something dumb? I am not trying to be funny, I really want to know what "cheese" is in the game. I am a CRPG game enjoyer and maybe I have not played enough new RPGs to understand, grinding and nerfing was also a new term I got accustomed to, grinding being what you do in a CRPG by getting into battles to up your characters stats, but back in the 80s and 90s this was call buffing up your character and nerfing, yeah nerfing, I had a nerf football back in the late 70s and played all I could with my fiends, so I could not really understand that one much either, I had to google it in Urban Dictionary to be honest

 

Man I envy you guys though, playing in MP with guys watching your back on quests, it sounds like the best way to play, I am kind of stuck with SP myself.

 

 

"Cheese" is an old gamer/mmo term for anything in the game that allows you to exploit to gain a distinctive edge against the environment or mobs (zombies/critters in this case). 7d2d is absolutely drowning in cheese, it is easily exploited. New players do not realize how much cheese is available to them even with A18, things they could do that are available right from the moment of entering in the game. As such the game is harder for them and an experienced player quickly outpaces them in gamestage.

*examples*

 

1. I started a new server map a month ago due to moving away from experimental and switching to stable with my comrades. During the first few minutes of the game I had breezed through the tutorial mission and headed for the trader about 1KM away. Along the way I grabbed every nest for feathers/egs, every rock, grabbed a few hundred wood/grass all while running to the trader (still no cheese, just experience so we understand the difference). I get outside the trader and theres a bear there, and a mountain lion (all of this is true story btw). Rather than avoiding them like the plague I aggro them and sprint inside the trader before they cant reach me, using the terrain to stay just ahead of them (minor cheese, jumping on rocks, using pathing exploits). Once inside I close the doors because the trader depot is invincible to them (bigger cheese). I lead them to a small opening in the fence where they attack like crazy doing nothing to the depot. I quickly make a wooden spear from the materials I found and proceed to kill the bear, the cougar, I make a bow and aggro a nearby couple of lumberjacks and spear them down too for good measure and I am now suddenly somewhere close to level 5 (HELLO CHEESECAKE!). I have been in the game for less than 30 minutes, server is on standard difficulty. I THEN finish my "find a trader" quest with several more points to start with and start doing burial treasure missions.

 

2. I wont mention the nerdpolling exploits and other things you can do, they put the last cheese to shame and essentially make the game easy mode when doing fetch missions. I'm glad they are increasing rewards for clear missions to give those more incentive, at least those can be a challenge.

 

MP is where it is at in this game on co-op, just wish everybody would log in at the same time

[bobrpggamer]

"Cheese" is an old gamer/mmo term for anything in the game that allows you to exploit to gain a distinctive edge against the environment or mobs (zombies/critters in this case). 7d2d is absolutely drowning in cheese, it is easily exploited. New players do not realize how much cheese is available to them even with A18, things they could do that are available right from the moment of entering in the game. As such the game is harder for them and an experienced player quickly outpaces them in gamestage.

*examples*

 

1. I started a new server map a month ago due to moving away from experimental and switching to stable with my comrades. During the first few minutes of the game I had breezed through the tutorial mission and headed for the trader about 1KM away. Along the way I grabbed every nest for feathers/egs, every rock, grabbed a few hundred wood/grass all while running to the trader (still no cheese, just experience so we understand the difference). I get outside the trader and theres a bear there, and a mountain lion (all of this is true story btw). Rather than avoiding them like the plague I aggro them and sprint inside the trader before they cant reach me, using the terrain to stay just ahead of them (minor cheese, jumping on rocks, using pathing exploits). Once inside I close the doors because the trader depot is invincible to them (bigger cheese). I lead them to a small opening in the fence where they attack like crazy doing nothing to the depot. I quickly make a wooden spear from the materials I found and proceed to kill the bear, the cougar, I make a bow and aggro a nearby couple of lumberjacks and spear them down too for good measure and I am now suddenly somewhere close to level 5 (HELLO CHEESECAKE!). I have been in the game for less than 30 minutes, server is on standard difficulty. I THEN finish my "find a trader" quest with several more points to start with and start doing burial treasure missions.

 

2. I wont mention the nerdpolling exploits and other things you can do, they put the last cheese to shame and essentially make the game easy mode when doing fetch missions. I'm glad they are increasing rewards for clear missions to give those more incentive, at least those can be a challenge.

 

MP is where it is at in this game on co-op, just wish everybody would log in at the same time

Thank you for the definition of the term.