Has torch heat been lowered enough to matter?

[JCrook1028]

My experience is that the new torch heat value hasn't made any difference at all. I took down all old torches and crafted mew ones. Placed them on more precisely spaced new concrete columns and tested how often they spawn screamers.

 

Video below:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS2k0PETwRc&feature=youtu.be

 

What have you guys seen? Any lowering of screamer spawns?

[Scyris]

Supposedly you can have about 4x as many around, which means they probally lowered the heatmap from 4.05 to 1.xx or so. Yeah thats exactly what they did, they also lowered the heatmap time (how long it sticks around)

 

<property name="Class" value="TorchHeatMap"/>

<property name="HeatMapStrength" value="1"/>

<property name="HeatMapTime" value="600"/>

<property name="HeatMapFrequency" value="1"/><!--once per minute it adds heat map strength -->

 

This is the same block in a17.4

 

<property name="HeatMapStrength" value="4.05"/>

<property name="HeatMapTime" value="1200"/>

<property name="HeatMapFrequency" value="15"/> I assume that means 15 times a minute.

[JCrook1028]

Yea but it has had zero actual impact on gameplay, as shown in the video. It's not just in my continues game either. I watched Midnight Designers LP video today. He restarted for B152, had about 10 torches over two floors in the barn POI and got a screamer spawn.

[Scyris]

Yea but it has had zero actual impact on gameplay, as shown in the video. It's not just in my continues game either. I watched Midnight Designers LP video today. He restarted for B152, had about 10 torches over two floors in the barn POI and got a screamer spawn.

 

Well before more than 2 or 3 torches or so could cause scrapers, so 6 should be safe, higher than 6 might be pushing it when you factor in other things that can cause it. Also remember heat is per chunk, and the chunks are decently big.

[JCrook1028]

6 in what? a chunk? I have 6.5 per chunk in the video with no other heat sources.

[Viktoriusiii]

6 in what? a chunk? I have 6.5 per chunk in the video with no other heat sources.

 

per chunk. Also dont forget that heat travels over to their adjacent chunk. So if you have 4 in one and 4 in the next, you probably still get the screamers.

 

Torches are meant to be an early game vision thing. Afterwards use flashlights, nightvision goggles or electricity.

[Roland]

You took down all old ones as in you didn’t start a new game? That could be the problem. I’ve noticed that when changing xml values sometimes the new values don’t take if playing on a save that was started using the old values. Start a new game and the new values are true. Could be the case here.

[JCrook1028]

Notice I also referenced Midnight's NEW game? .....

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

per chunk. Also dont forget that heat travels over to their adjacent chunk. So if you have 4 in one and 4 in the next, you probably still get the screamers.

 

Torches are meant to be an early game vision thing. Afterwards use flashlights, nightvision goggles or electricity.

 

Well they lowered it so they would actually be useful. Seems their efforts so far have not accomplished their stated goal.

edit: Just to be accurate, the same setup for a D7 horde would have the same problem. Unintended per TFP screamer spawns.

[Viktoriusiii]

Notice I also referenced Midnight's NEW game? .....

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

Well they lowered it so they would actually be useful. Seems their efforts so far have not accomplished their stated goal.

edit: Just to be accurate, the same setup for a D7 horde would have the same problem. Unintended per TFP screamer spawns.

 

One torch lights up one room.

You do not need more light than one room in the early game.

So I'd say they succeded... although if you wanna build a bonfire out of candles, you might want to edit the xml ^_^

If you could light up an entire house with torches, electricity becomes meaningless.

[JCrook1028]

One torch lights up one room.

You do not need more light than one room in the early game.

So I'd say they succeded... although if you wanna build a bonfire out of candles, you might want to edit the xml ^_^

If you could light up an entire house with torches, electricity becomes meaningless.

 

To be accurate I'm not lighting up a base. I use candles for that. I'm lighting up an empty section of road to fight the horde along.

[AtomicUs5000]

You took down all old ones as in you didn’t start a new game? That could be the problem. I’ve noticed that when changing xml values sometimes the new values don’t take if playing on a save that was started using the old values. Start a new game and the new values are true. Could be the case here.

 

Yes that is a problem. I tried quadrupling my lighting without starting a new game in between those builds. The results were 4 or 5 screamers per day.

 

EDIT: Nope. Wrong. lol

[JCrook1028]

I'd be willing to bet it'll be the same result if you start a new game. Lemme know please if you do?

[Ramethzer0]

If you think torch spawn screamers are a nuisance, wait till you throw down about 12 flaming barrels in an empty field.

 

I used this trick in a16 to lure them away from my tradeskill locations.

[AtomicUs5000]

You are right.... things are messed up.

Started a new game.

 

Each torch is adding 1% heat to the chunk, and all neighboring chunks, every 1 minute of real time.

Compare this to a forge that adds 3% every 60 minutes.

So after one hour, one forge raises it up by 3%, where a single torch would raise it up by 60%

That can't be right.

 

Candles are adding 0.5% of heat to the chunk, and all neighboring chunks, every 60 minutes. Pretty much insignificant.

 

Everything else producing heat looks fine.

Perhaps the change madmole made never went through or someone reverted back. This seems to be exactly the problem before the supposed changes.

[JCrook1028]

Hehehe yea it doesn't even take that many. I was doing a t4 quest and screamers were spawning from 2 barrels in the back yard plus the heat from killing/clearing the poi etc.

[AtomicUs5000]

I posted my results in the bugs topic.

 

I'm glad you suggested testing this. I would have carried on assuming that I made the mistake of not starting a new game.

One of the reasons I started a new game to begin with was because these screamers were driving me mad... on a horde night no less.

[Sythalin]

You are right.... things are messed up.

Started a new game.

 

Each torch is adding 1% heat to the chunk, and all neighboring chunks, every 1 minute of real time.

Compare this to a forge that adds 3% every 60 minutes.

So after one hour, one forge raises it up by 3%, where a single torch would raise it up by 60%

That can't be right.

 

Candles are adding 0.5% of heat to the chunk, and all neighboring chunks, every 60 minutes. Pretty much insignificant.

 

Everything else producing heat looks fine.

Perhaps the change madmole made never went through or someone reverted back. This seems to be exactly the problem before the supposed changes.

 

This is inaccurate in the current build. I noticed a huge increase in screamers at b152 so I did testing. Yes, the forge produces 3% heat/hour when it's off. However, while running it's producing 3% per minute. Add this to the 1% heat/min of torches, it's easy to see how that heat map races constantly to 100%. Funny enough, cement mixers don't have an increased heat gen while they're running. You can run 10 of those and never really have to worry about heat.

 

I tested this extensively in CM and eventually released a modlet for the torches. In my solo play, I apparently built a base across a chunk line. Both chunks had 7+ torches and the heatmap was staggered, so I was spawning screamers about every 5 minutes. It was ridiculous and frustrating. Whatever they did to the heatmap systems was botched pretty hard.

[Ghostlight]

I've still got the same 25 torches round my base I've had round every base I ever bult since alpha 14 and I get about a half dozen Screamers a day. That's all I can tell you. I've never noticed Torches making a difference. If I light my 4 Forges, that's different.

[Sythalin]

I've still got the same 25 torches round my base I've had round every base I ever bult since alpha 14 and I get about a half dozen Screamers a day. That's all I can tell you. I've never noticed Torches making a difference. If I light my 4 Forges, that's different.

 

Jesus, so if you stay in your base/chunk, with 25 torches you should be spawning a screamer about every 4 minutes (not counting any other heat sources). This would drive me insane.

[Ghostlight]

I just told you, we get about 6 per day. We have 90 minute days set. So a Screamer every 15 mins.

 

Why would it drive us insane, the base just insta-kills them without them screaming; we don't need to do anything.

 

Screamers used to be fun and set off a small fight for us, but they have so few HP now that a single Iron Spike kills them before we can even react and get out there and let them scream. They are pointless and might as well be removed from the game.

[AtomicUs5000]

This is inaccurate in the current build. I noticed a huge increase in screamers at b152 so I did testing. Yes, the forge produces 3% heat/hour when it's off. However, while running it's producing 3% per minute. Add this to the 1% heat/min of torches, it's easy to see how that heat map races constantly to 100%. Funny enough, cement mixers don't have an increased heat gen while they're running. You can run 10 of those and never really have to worry about heat.

 

I tested this extensively in CM and eventually released a modlet for the torches. In my solo play, I apparently built a base across a chunk line. Both chunks had 7+ torches and the heatmap was staggered, so I was spawning screamers about every 5 minutes. It was ridiculous and frustrating. Whatever they did to the heatmap systems was botched pretty hard.

 

Things were changed between b152 and 155. But the torch changes didn’t stick.

Everything else is fine in this build. The torches are too toasty.

[Sythalin]

Things were changed between b152 and 155. But the torch changes didn’t stick.

Everything else is fine in this build. The torches are too toasty.

 

What changed? I'm looking at the wall torch and the values are the same in b155 as they were in b152 (1 heat/min).

[HungryZombie]

If you think torch spawn screamers are a nuisance, wait till you throw down about 12 flaming barrels in an empty field.

 

I used this trick in a16 to lure them away from my tradeskill locations.

 

That's a neat idea.

[AtomicUs5000]

What changed? I'm looking at the wall torch and the values are the same in b155 as they were in b152 (1 heat/min).

 

Probably candles, forges, workbenches... all lowered. I don't remember. Pretty sure it was in the patch notes, or in madmoles posts in the dev diary.

[JCrook1028]

What changed? I'm looking at the wall torch and the values are the same in b155 as they were in b152 (1 heat/min).

 

Torches were lowered in b152. They were lowered from 4.05 per minute to 1 per minute. But this change isn't enough to matter. They need to be lowered further, that's the point.