It doesnt matter if we can "craft" T6

[meganoth]

That isnt removing anything from the loot experience, since you can 1. still find them and 2. theres tons of other things to find. Nobody will stop looting bc we can craft tools again.

 

This was definitely not true in previous alpha multiplayer games at least. In A15-A17 one of our group always jumped on crafting and after a short period where we actually looted relevant stuff he supplied almost all of our equipment, especially because looting was still a gamble but crafting is a sure thing if you have the mats. Have any armor slot less than 4 (or 400), next thing you have all armor at lvl 4(00). And a few days later it was quality 6(00). Making any equipment loot irrelevant.

 

So as long as both crafting and looting supply the same stuff they step on each others toes, including the case they are actually balanced. At least in A18 everyone can be crafter for his own weapons. At the moment looting steps heavily on the toes of crafting weapons and armor. Nerf is incoming. I thought the loot nerf was already done, now Roland said it isn't in yet(?). We'll see.

 

The only easy reliable way for them not to step on each others toes is if they are the best method for different stuff. I don't see looting able to get building materials as easy as mining/crafting, but even if Brian is right, then all it needs is a nerf of those cement and cobblestone stacks found in POIs.

 

--------------

 

Lucky Looter needs a nerf though. With a cursory look at gamestage values it seems one level in LL gets you about 1 week advancement (i.e. you loot as if you were a week further in game). That wouldn't be a problem, but 4 levels of LL plus glasses are easy to get and should get you about 5 weeks advancement (maybe less if it isn't linear). Now that is OP with the current loot tables.

[aptalley]

The only way to keep looting OR crafting relevant for the entirety of a playthrough is to have some system in which your items degrade to the point that you need new ones.

 

Give crafting a chance to create a Quality 6 item - not a guarantee, even on the highest crafting tier

 

Have items degrade as they are repaired. Possibly a 25-50% chance up front, and maybe a book or skill that can reduce the chance to degrade to prior quality level.

 

If we are sticking to tool parts being required, as well as metal and raw ingredients, the loot of parts needs to skyrocket, and fully put together pieces dropped much lower as well.

 

Oh, and repair kits are a joke now. Need a bit more complexity or something here.

[Kattla]

Lucky Looter needs a nerf though. With a cursory look at gamestage values it seems one level in LL gets you about 1 week advancement (i.e. you loot as if you were a week further in game). That wouldn't be a problem, but 4 levels of LL plus glasses are easy to get and should get you about 5 weeks advancement (maybe less if it isn't linear). Now that is OP with the current loot tables.

 

Lucky Looter is a perk, and therefor an option. How optionial it actually is if someone wants to powerplay is another story though.

[e1ghtbit]

Well if it's the only way to get purple tier items then Lucky Looter becomes required for top gear.

 

Well ish. I guess there is a small chance to find purple without it but who wouldn't want to increase the odds of getting the best gear?

[Lukeirot]

BS

 

 

Builders have to get used to looting and leaving the base.

 

 

BS I go out looting anyway even if I am crafting this build didn't Balance ♥♥♥♥ in terms of crafting, It killed crafting. Also who ♥♥♥♥ing cares if I spent time building and crafting, in the current system you aren't going to be able to craft everything anyway so it's just BS now.

[Boidster]

It's nice that there are only two options for game mechanics:

 

A) You get to live in a cave and craft the highest-tier stuff without ever leaving it*

 

or

 

B) You are unable to craft (or "assemble" if semantics are your bag FFS) the highest-level stuff, period

 

If there were any shades of grey in there, say, a mechanic that allowed you to combine increasingly-more-rare inputs to produce higher-powered outputs - including the very strongest in the game - well, then, this entire "fight" would require nuance and critical thinking and that would be terrible. Either the current system is perfect and balanced or you just want to live in a cave. Niiiice and simple.

 

*This has never been a thing, in this game or the blocky one

[Midkemma]

I've not really played A18 outside of being in creative mode to make 'mousetraps' and amuse myself, I do have a question though and I hope someone can enlighten me

 

 

Can you still click on craft item then bugger off to do other stuff?

While I appreciate it is boring as hell staring at a screen for a timer, I personally found this to be an issue previously, I like the crafter life (with a little hunting) but I feel disappointed at shallow mechanics that undermine a whole playstyle.

 

 

Maybe it is different now?

 

I'm off now to load up the 10000000000000000th RWG, I could test what I asked but I got the urge to find the 'just right' map XD lol

[Hazitru]

It's funny how people always consider something to be balanced just because it suits their own way of playing. For example, I thought A16 was perfectly balanced but others thought the LBD system was completely out of balance because they couldn't become a master miner by looting and killing zombies.

 

I started a new game this weekend. I went straight into Lucky Looter. With only level 3 in Lucky Looter and looting I made more progress in my game than I could ever have made if I had invested the points in perks for crafting.

 

By the way, madmole wants to nerf looting and the trader. Apparently he thinks that looting is overpowered.

 

 

 

As split up as the crafting is at the moment you can't even craft all items in maximum quality by day 100. Only in the branches you specialize in can you craft something that has more than Q1. You have to find the rest.

 

 

 

Digging zombies are annoying but certainly not interesting.

 

That's how it worked for me in A17: A zombie or a group of zombies hears me down there. They start digging instead of taking the entrance. I hear them, go up and find them in their hole. Then I kill them and have to fill the hole to avoid falling in accidentally.

 

What is interesting about it ?

 

I also had an underground base in A17, by the way.

I surrounded the entrance with a trench filled with spikes. The only way to get into the base was via a drawbridge.

That was no challenge. Only required some digging and some building.

 

The thing is I feel like the game is going into a different direction in A18 than previous alphas. It may be good for some and disappointing for others. It’s not about balance between crafting and looting.

 

He wants the game to be more like fallout which is loot reliant and less like Minecraft which is mostly crafting.

 

I just want to throw in I love crafting so either way will way fit my play style and I’ll adjust. I do think the loot should be turned down just a bit. The base loot bonus is to high now. The quality of loot that you can get in just one poi is insane now, I do agree with you guys on that end but I don’t think it’s a loot vs crafting thing they are completely two different elements of the game.

[Kalarro]

 

I just want to throw in I love crafting so either way will way fit my play style and I’ll adjust. I do think the loot should be turned down just a bit. The base loot bonus is to high now. The quality of loot that you can get in just one poi is insane now, I do agree with you guys on that end but I don’t think it’s a loot vs crafting thing they are completely two different elements of the game.

 

I agree, it's not looting vs crafting. I like to do both, and some take it as an offense to looting when you say you want to be able to craft. I just said that I dont find it ok to remove crafting of tools and basic survival weapons, and that assembling parts is not crafting. Because it was fun to do. What I miss isnt an "easy" way to get items, it's the process of gathering-processing-crafting itself. I didnt even dislike (or I even liked) to have some key elements for crafting locked behid only found items, like crossbow recipe and calipers a few alphas back. But in a18 I dont feel like a crafter at all. The builder part is good, love the new mining system, but why the hell did they remove the crafter part.

[RipClaw]

The builder part is good, love the new mining system, but why the hell did they remove the crafter part.

 

As far as I can see, they are trying to achieve a "one size fits all" approach. Everything that is tier 3 is locked behind parts.

They already follow this approach with the skills tree.

[Kalarro]

As far as I can see, they are trying to achieve a "one size fits all" approach. Everything that is tier 3 is locked behind parts.

They already follow this approach with the skills tree.

 

Do they really feel like weapons were crafted in a16 and before? I never felt like it was a part of crafting. It was finding them dissasembled and assembling them. And now they do it to everything and call it crafting ¬¬

[RipClaw]

Do they really feel like weapons were crafted in a16 and before? I never felt like it was a part of crafting. It was finding them dissasembled and assembling them. And now they do it to everything and call it crafting ¬¬

 

I don't know, either. Maybe they want to remodel the tier 3 tools so that they look much more like something out of a Mad Max Movie.

 

The steel sledgehammer looks like a dumbbell that has been welded to a lump of steel and the steel knuckles contain elements of scissors and corkscrews. It would then make sense to collect dumbbells, scissors and corkscrews and use them to craft this items.

 

But any blacksmith can make you a pickaxe, an axe or a shovel in the classic shape. If you can make steel you can also make steel tools. A baseball bat is also just a wooden club whose shape has been optimized for baseball.

[Kage848]

I very quickly skimmed over this thread but will read it correctly. I wanted to leave my thoughts on this whole thing first.

 

I used to be the crafting guy and I still am, kinda. But I'm loving the thrill and excitement of looting in alpha 18 and it's all because of the loot i can find.

 

I am actually going as far as to not spec into the schematic tree, intellect, even though I can spare the points. My comment section on YouTube keeps asking why. It's simple. Looting the schematic is 100000000x more fun than clicking the advanced engineering button. Not to mention all those extra points I have to spend on the AWESOME fortitude tree.

 

Fun Pimps! Make looting great again. Oh wait, you already did.

[Kalarro]

Looting the schematic is 100000000x more fun than clicking the advanced engineering button.

 

i dont have a problem with the looted schematics, I like it. What I dont like is the tool parts instead of gathered and processed materials.

 

Unlocking recipes through looting? Sure, that's fun. I wouldnt mind even removing recipes from perks and get some other benefits from them.

But assembling parts instead of having a crafter process? No, that's not fun.

[Katitof]

i dont have a problem with the looted schematics, I like it. What I dont like is the tool parts instead of gathered and processed materials.

 

Unlocking recipes through looting? Sure, that's fun. I wouldnt mind even removing recipes from perks and get some other benefits from them.

But assembling parts instead of having a crafter process? No, that's not fun.

 

Tools are materials to be gathered.

Parts are processed materials from gathered tools if you want better ones.

 

You don't have any problem with that, you have problem with them being not littered everywhere to the point where you trip over them, like in case of mine-able metals.

 

Parts ARE gathered resource. You simply don't like the fact its not completely abundant to the point where they might just as well not exist.

[Kalarro]

Tools are materials to be gathered.

Parts are processed materials from gathered tools if you want better ones.

 

You don't have any problem with that, you have problem with them being not littered everywhere to the point where you trip over them, like in case of mine-able metals.

 

Parts ARE gathered resource. You simply don't like the fact its not completely abundant to the point where they might just as well not exist.

 

Again, no. Why do you insitn in post after post that I want anything easier, when I cant stop telling you it's not the case. Why does your mind not accept the idea that the crafting process can be fun to somebody. Crafting as in gathering ores/wood/fiber and such things, then processing them and then crafting the final item. That is a fun process, period. No need to think in conspirancy theories. I even said in my previus post I wouldnt mind not getting a single recipe from perks and needing to find them all. What I dont want to lose is the crafting process, just bc its fun. But ofc you ignore all that. Lets make another "you just want easy things" post ofc. Are you just trolling or can you start talking about what I am saying and not about what you imagine I am saying?

 

EDIT: about the parts beeing also gathered, maybe it's because english is not my language, but there should be a word for gathering raw materials from nature instead of picking already human processed items. I thought gather was that word. If Im mistaken and you can use the word "gather" as just picking up any crafted item, it is still no excuse to not see the difference between both cases.

[Ghostlight]

I found myself crafting where I had gaps in the loot I found. Example: I found a tier 6 Pump and tier 6 AK, so I will not bother to level those perks that allow me to craft such guns. Well, perhaps not level them much as they do have value in improving your ability with those gun types, but whatever. This feels right to me, so I am fine with how they implemented things (other than it was far too easy to find the tier 6 guns, but that's a different topic).

 

As for this actual debate. To my mind, the best items should only be attainable when performing the higher-risk tasks. Hence tier 6 should only be found through looting*, and the safer option - crafting - should only be able to produce tier 5.

 

* Having said that, with the current TOTAL LACK of zombies in the world and in POIs, looting is actually just as safe as sitting in your cave crafting in A18, so.....shrug?

[Kalarro]

As for this actual debate. To my mind, the best items should only be attainable when performing the higher-risk tasks. Hence tier 6 should only be found through looting*, and the safer option - crafting - should only be able to produce tier 5.

 

 

That is not the current debate, that's the debate in another open topic. This one is about not beeing able to craft t3-5, just assemble from parts. I wouldnt mind about T6 if they make it also very rare looting. VERY rare. If I get a T6 in my first 20 days after putting the effort and perks for crafting t5 it would suck. But if I dont get one until very late into the game, sure.

 

But as I said, the topic is about missing the crafting process, not about T6

 

EDIT: actually Id prefer to be able to craft T6, but have a very rare item needed for it, like calipers. Id say that would make you still need to find something, but instead of the final item, the ability to craft it. Like I said Im not trying to make it easy, but fun. So with this you need both things, to loot something and to craft something.

[Ghostlight]

That is not the current debate, that's the debate in another open topic. This one is about not beeing able to craft t3-5, just assemble from parts.

 

They are the same thing. Duh.

[Kalarro]

They are the same thing. Duh.

 

How so? I opened this topic precisely saying that why would I care about beeing able to craft or not T6, when we cant craft at all, just assemble.

"Crafting" or not T6 is one topic.

Crafting vs assembling is another topic.

[Ghostlight]

In both cases you collect an appropriate amount of stuff and combine it into a thing. To differentiate is just being pedantic.

 

There's no practical difference between disassembling a Pistol to get Pistol parts that are used to make a Pistol. And disassembling a Corn Plant to get Corn to make Meat Stew.

[Kalarro]

In both cases you collect an appropriate amount of stuff and combine it into a thing. To differentiate is just being pedantic.

 

Yeah, if you are just thinking about clicking the button. but if you hink a bit more instead of 1 second, the activities I do for one thing or the other change.

 

For one, I do absolutly nothing. I just continue looting like I already am and get parts. Not only that, it even makes it less exciting bc I find the finished product at the same time, which takes away from the fun of it. Why would I be happy to find parts and assemble them if I just find the finished item doing the same.

On the other, I go out and gather materials, I set up processing infrastructure, I still may need go find a recipe or a processing item for it, then process all materials and finally craft the item with different stuff.

 

It is not the same, gameplay wise

[seagas]

Ive said it several times. I love going out looting. But I love crafting too, and right now, there is no crafting. You always, always answer me as if Im trying to find a way to stay at base and don't go out. It has nothing to do with that. I just love crafting, and they removed the crafting of everything. Assembling parts is not crafting.

 

I'm with you, I enjoy building and crafting, one should be able to craft all simple tools and weapons with raw resources as before. I can understand more conplicated items, such as firearms, augers, chainsaws etc.

[Ghostlight]

For one, I do absolutly nothing. I just continue looting like I already am and get parts. Not only that, it even makes it less exciting bc I find the finished product at the same time, which takes away from the fun of it. Why would I be happy to find parts and assemble them if I just find the finished item doing the same.

 

Because hopefully the item you are finding and scrapping is inferior to the item you intend to craft.

 

On the other, I go out and gather materials, I set up processing infrastructure, I still may need go find a recipe or a processing item for it, then process all materials and finally craft the item with different stuff.

 

OK I may show my ignorance here since I am NOT the gun maker in my group. I have all of that done for me, so I really don't know if what I am about to say is correct. That said, is it not the case that you need other ingredients to make a Pistol beyond Pistol Parts? And several of those other ingredients required processing (forged metal).

 

To revert to an example with which I *am* familiar. I can make the Rad Remover mods. To do this I needed to be lucky enough to find the schematic. I then need to process several of the ingredients it requires (Forged Steel) and I need a specific workstation (Workbench) to actually craft it. HOW IS THAT NOT CRAFTING?

[Kalarro]

OK I may show my ignorance here since I am NOT the gun maker in my group. I have all of that done for me, so I really don;t know if what I am about to say is correct. That said, is it not the case that you need other ingredients to make a Pistol beyond Pistol Parts? And several of those ingredient required processing (forged metal).

 

To revert to an example with which I *am* familiar. I can make the Rad Remover mods. To do this I needed to be lucky enough to find the schematic. I then need to process several of the ingredients it requires (Forged Steel) and I need a specific workstation (Workbench) to actually craft it. HOW IS THAT NOT CRAFTING?

 

I know the thread is long so I understand you havent read my other posts. I said several times Im only talking about tools and non fire weapons. Basically, how it was before they removed weapon parts in a17. You can craft "basic" stuff bows, tools, maces and such, but you need parts for advanced stuff like fireweapons.

Not only does it make sense, but it also makes fireweapons more a mid-late game thing, instead of like it is now where you just use them from the start.