is building pointless now?

[Bashtiks]

I’m not sure that building is completely pointless now but at the same time, I don’t think it is the point of the game anymore.

 

With over 600 hours play time, it is by far my favourite thing to do. Before A17, by day 7, I always made sure I had a cobblestone tower set up with, if I’d been lucky to find / make a working forge, iron bars to stand on around the edge. By day 14, extend it a little, maybe putting some traps around it to slow down the Z’s. Then spend the next week gathering the resources to either extend the base out or start something stronger, giving more space between me and the ever increasing in strength and quantity Z’s. Over time, add turrets / blade traps to keep up with the increase in cops and radiated enemies. And repeat this as my game stage climbed ever higher.

 

Yes, in between there would be time to go and loot some POI’s and trade all that lovely extra loot dropped from your horde night success, and farm food and water and everything needed to survive in what was once a survival game.

 

Now, the game seems to be, go to a trader, get a quest, complete the quest, get XP and some reward and repeat.

 

Building a base in A18, because of the super intelligent Z’s on horde night who know where the weak points are, you effectively have to let them in on a clear path to you (same when digging underground) with minimal defences in between you and them and take them out. Or, trick the AI pathing by having a step they can’t jump across and watch them fall, run around and climb up again.

 

It’s rather a shame.

 

Feel the same.

[hotpoon]

...

So now you need to build with the new AI knowing the SI of your structure changing their behavior every moment. I have built 3 succesful types of horde bases. And hands down, the super easy kill corridor is the most effective. Even with radiated cops blowing up everywhere. So there is no reason to build anything more complicated. Thats the problem.

 

Right.

 

I think base building would be more relevant:

1. if zombies didn't have knowledge of structural integrity

2. if zombies didn't have pathing option knowledge beyond their line of sight

3. if zombies were still lootable and harvestable

 

The first two points encourage cheesing, and break immersion. Not even bandits should have those powers.

Regarding point 3, if zombies were still delivering resources (esp. bones), more people would want to take part in horde night because the reward would outweigh the risk.

 

In my current game, I've turned off horde night.

 

During day to day altercations with zombies, it is harder to notice the fact that they are structural engineers with x-ray vision, but during horde night, it becomes painfully obvious. This breaks immersion for me, so until that gets fixed, I guess I'll sadly be missing that part of the game. A real pity too because it used to be one of my favourite aspects of the game.

[Sjustus548]

Right.

 

I think base building would be more relevant:

1. if zombies didn't have knowledge of structural integrity

2. if zombies didn't have pathing option knowledge beyond their line of sight

3. if zombies were still lootable and harvestable

 

The first two points encourage cheesing, and break immersion. Not even bandits should have those powers.

Regarding point 3, if zombies were still delivering resources (esp. bones), more people would want to take part in horde night because the reward would outweigh the risk.

 

In my current game, I've turned off horde night.

 

During day to day altercations with zombies, it is harder to notice the fact that they are structural engineers with x-ray vision, but during horde night, it becomes painfully obvious. This breaks immersion for me, so until that gets fixed, I guess I'll sadly be missing that part of the game. A real pity too because it used to be one of my favourite aspects of the game.

 

I'm really leaning towards turning off horde night on my server as well. Just doesn't feel worth it anymore. With every "improvement" they make to the zombies AI they feel less and less like zombies.

[Lorca]

I'm really leaning towards turning off horde night on my server as well. Just doesn't feel worth it anymore. With every "improvement" they make to the zombies AI they feel less and less like zombies.

Yeah, we turned off horde night too. Might turn it back on later for a novelty, but the conga line (or hive mind, as my gf calls it) doesn't do it for me. Actually preferred A16's zombies - they were harder to predict.

[Laz Man]

It's rather frustrating for me. I try to find a concept for a " traps only " base and tested on the weekend some concepts in a testworld against a gamestage 300 horde. I play with 32 zombies at the same and that was never a problem until now.

 

In one of the testbases I have a corridor with dart traps, electric fences and at the end a blade trap for the demolisher and other tall zombies.

 

On the first 3 blocks I have 3 electric fences and 21 dart traps. This would have wiped out a entiere gamestage 900 horde in A17 but a gamestage 300 horde in A18 is not impressed and the demolisher even less.

 

But if I shoot at the zombies with the M60, they fall like flies. I have the impression that the FPS players got in A18 a massive buff with the M60, the AP ammo and the grenades while the traps got nerfed in a matter of speaking.

 

I stay on it but eventually I either have to give up and reduce the number of zombies or resort to firearms and grenades.

 

Personally, I stay away from doing any horde base cm testing (or cm horde base videos) as it ruins the fun in trying to figure things out on my own. (Its the journey, not the destination). It doesnt help that there is alot of things that still need balancing (e.g. late game hordes, perk builds, etc.) so it can become a roadblock to having fun when you know the optimal strat. Vs everything else.

 

With this mind set, I have at least been able to enjoy BM horde base building so far up until day 35. 😎👍

 

Edit: Maybe for day 42, I will sit back and let my base do most of the defense to see how it holds up...😂

[RipClaw]

Personally, I stay away from doing any horde base cm testing (or cm horde base videos) as it ruins the fun in trying to figure things out on my own. (Its the journey, not the destination). It doesnt help that there is alot of things that still need balancing (e.g. late game hordes, perk builds, etc.) so it can become a roadblock to having fun when you know the optimal strat. Vs everything else.

 

With this mind set, I have at least been able to enjoy BM horde base building so far up until day 35. ����

 

Edit: Maybe for day 42, I will sit back and let my base do most of the defense to see how it holds up...��

 

Seeing a base fail and dying all night long is not one of the things I enjoy. It happend to me once in A16. Then I did nothing else for a whole week but build a new base. When my first design failed in A17 and I was killed several times that night. I just didn't want to take any more risks.

 

From what I've seen, day 42 is a walk in the park compared to a gamestage 300 horde.

It's just as if the Fun Pimps are saying, "This is the end of the road for you. Start over."

[Jugginator]

Yeah, we turned off horde night too. Might turn it back on later for a novelty, but the conga line (or hive mind, as my gf calls it) doesn't do it for me. Actually preferred A16's zombies - they were harder to predict.

 

Harder to predict? Lol A 16 zombies had one AI : Spin in circles. I've built a literal log cabin with a wood wall on the outside and had 64-spawning (with zero trickle, it was constant 64) on Insane in A16 and I had to remove the walls because the zombies were so dumb they would just attack the wall and if there was no wall left, they spun in circles.

 

Idk, I find it enjoyable to figure out how to build bases that are effective in slowing the horde down while I defend it, there's no tower defense game that lets you build immortal towers. If the base gets wreaked, repair it and make changes.

[Laz Man]

Harder to predict? Lol A 16 zombies had one AI : Spin in circles. I've built a literal log cabin with a wood wall on the outside and had 64-spawning (with zero trickle, it was constant 64) on Insane in A16 and I had to remove the walls because the zombies were so dumb they would just attack the wall and if there was no wall left, they spun in circles.

 

Idk, I find it enjoyable to figure out how to build bases that are effective in slowing the horde down while I defend it, there's no tower defense game that lets you build immortal towers. If the base gets wreaked, repair it and make changes.

 

Yeah, I'm with you. Although I think it would be fun to see how a fully electrical base holds up with no active defense or no active defense in the beginning...

 

...for my day 42 horde I think I'm going to limit my active defense to only the stair case just for fun... 😂

 

...or maybe I'll limit my active defense to cops and above as it's boring to sit around and do nothing for me lol

[Lorca]

Harder to predict? Lol A 16 zombies had one AI : Spin in circles. I've built a literal log cabin with a wood wall on the outside and had 64-spawning (with zero trickle, it was constant 64) on Insane in A16 and I had to remove the walls because the zombies were so dumb they would just attack the wall and if there was no wall left, they spun in circles.

 

Idk, I find it enjoyable to figure out how to build bases that are effective in slowing the horde down while I defend it, there's no tower defense game that lets you build immortal towers. If the base gets wreaked, repair it and make changes.

 

In the few hundred hours I played of A16, I maybe saw a spinning zombie once or twice, but I can't say that was a thing. Sounds like your game had some problems man.

[Jugginator]

In the few hundred hours I played of A16, I maybe saw a spinning zombie once or twice, but I can't say that was a thing. Sounds like your game had some problems man.

 

On the contrary, you're the only one I've seen who said they never have seen pathing issues nor spinning zombies xD Everyone I've played with/on servers collectively quit because we/they couldn't build anything without zombie AI causing the build to be immortal

[Laz Man]

On the contrary, you're the only one I've seen who said they never have seen pathing issues nor spinning zombies xD Everyone I've played with/on servers collectively quit because we/they couldn't build anything without zombie AI causing the build to be immortal

 

Those pole blocks laid flat.....spinning in circle for days!!!!! I think it was A16? 😂😂😂

 

I bet faatal hates all the weird shapes as I bet it makes his job to improve AI pathing more difficult....

[Maguvas]

Right.

 

I think base building would be more relevant:

1. if zombies didn't have knowledge of structural integrity

2. if zombies didn't have pathing option knowledge beyond their line of sight

3. if zombies were still lootable and harvestable

 

The first two points encourage cheesing, and break immersion. Not even bandits should have those powers.

Regarding point 3, if zombies were still delivering resources (esp. bones), more people would want to take part in horde night because the reward would outweigh the risk.

 

In my current game, I've turned off horde night.

 

During day to day altercations with zombies, it is harder to notice the fact that they are structural engineers with x-ray vision, but during horde night, it becomes painfully obvious. This breaks immersion for me, so until that gets fixed, I guess I'll sadly be missing that part of the game. A real pity too because it used to be one of my favourite aspects of the game.

 

What can I say: totally agree with you.

 

To me point 1. and 2. totally killed game immersion after the 'bug' (?) of having 25 Zs versus a single block: I do not know if in A18 they've changed that but I cannot play anymore the game enjoying it and for some reason no one can complain about performance otherwise a tall and thick wall users will say to you: aaaa the game is in alpha do not complain about performance you and your PC are sinners the game is pure!

 

Fine I'll not play anymore so

 

Anyway in A16.4 I remember myself during the blood moon horde hoping that Zs cannot see my weak defenses section and sometime it happened. Since A17.x Zs have a laser section scan integrated so they for sure will find and attack the weak zone: immersion has been killed.

 

My opinion of course.

[Laz Man]

What can I say: totally agree with you.

 

To me point 1. and 2. totally killed game immersion after the 'bug' (?) of having 25 Zs versus a single block: I do not know if in A18 they've changed that but I cannot play anymore the game enjoying it and for some reason no one can complain about performance otherwise a tall and thick wall users will say to you: aaaa the game is in alpha do not complain about performance you and your PC are sinners the game is pure!

 

Fine I'll not play anymore so

 

Anyway in A16.4 I remember myself during the blood moon horde hoping that Zs cannot see my weak defenses section and sometime it happened. Since A17.x Zs have a laser section scan integrated so they for sure will find and attack the weak zone: immersion has been killed.

 

My opinion of course.

 

It will get better over time. I think a mix of dumb/intelligence is needed to have progression with base defense otherwise it gets stale and barbie dream house mode too quickly. 😂

[Lorca]

On the contrary, you're the only one I've seen who said they never have seen pathing issues nor spinning zombies xD Everyone I've played with/on servers collectively quit because we/they couldn't build anything without zombie AI causing the build to be immortal

 

I didn't say I'd never seen spinning zombies. I said I saw it once or twice. Wasn't a big deal. The way you're going on, everybody collectively quit A16 because of it. We both know that's not true.

[Reth]

On the contrary, you're the only one I've seen who said they never have seen pathing issues nor spinning zombies xD Everyone I've played with/on servers collectively quit because we/they couldn't build anything without zombie AI causing the build to be immortal

 

It was easy to trigger pathing issues in A16. It was just as easy to build without causing AI to go crazy. It was always a choice.

[hotpoon]

On the contrary, you're the only one I've seen who said they never have seen pathing issues nor spinning zombies xD Everyone I've played with/on servers collectively quit because we/they couldn't build anything without zombie AI causing the build to be immortal

 

I don't remember spinning zombies, but then I am famously unobservant. I just asked my husband and says he can recall them, but not to the point where it made the game unpleasant. Back in A13 or so, I do remember seeing 3 zombies furiously attacking a big rock in the wilderness though. Had a good laugh at that.

[Ghostlight]

It was easy to trigger pathing issues in A16. It was just as easy to build without causing AI to go crazy. It was always a choice.

 

I guess by chance then that's how I built. I have no idea what people are talking about with spinning zombies, and I played at least 500 hours of A16. Never seen it.

 

I played several A16 maps well into high gamestage. 6000 was max back then and we hit 4000+ a few times (day ~200 as I recall). We built massive Steel fortresses with several layers of traps and lost a few of them even then to simply massive hordes that were incredibly fun to fight. Mindless but massive. Lasted well into the next morning. We've had our base dug under, had walls breached, had them come over the top because the body piles outside got so high. Everything. Absolutely amazing. A17/18 is not a patch on those horde nights, because the hyper intelligent AI would make it impossible, and has reduced base building to something of a formula/puzzle, which I greatly dislike.

[Maguvas]

I guess by chance then that's how I built. I have no idea what people are talking about with spinning zombies, and I played at least 500 hours of A16. Never seen it.

 

I played several A16 maps well into high gamestage. 6000 was max back then and we hit 4000+ a few times (day ~200 as I recall). We built massive Steel fortresses with several layers of traps and lost a few of them even then to simply massive hordes that were incredibly fun to fight. Mindless but massive. Lasted well into the next morning. We've had our base dug under, had walls breached, had them come over the top because the body piles outside got so high. Everything. Absolutely amazing. A17/18 is not a patch on those horde nights, because the hyper intelligent AI would make it impossible, and has reduced base building to something of a formula/puzzle, which I greatly dislike.

 

Definitely agree and on top of that I'd add also that instead of hyper smart AI they could give Zs dedicated habits i.e.: the z nurse will look more for injured zombies than for your base; the cheerleader likes sport and to jump; the engineer with yellow hat could spend more time attacking/disengaging traps than walls and so on. In my opinion the blood moon horde in this way could be greatly enriched. As of now different Zs are just different textures and strength of course.