Feedback for The Fun Pimps on Alpha 17

[Damocles]

#4 -occlusion of voxels requires a limit to the FOV so that the player doesn't have a chance to view voxels disappearing behind them as they turn

 

Thats just a dynamic parameter in the culling mechanics. It obviously works currently with different FOVs. And however the cone for culling is calculated in the future, there is no reason for it to be a static parameter.

 

Plus noone is asking for a FOV of 190 ...

The reasonable range is between 60 and 100, depending on the players preferences.

[Roland]

Thats just a dynamic parameter in the culling mechanics. It obviously works currently with different FOVs. And however the cone for culling is calculated in the future, there is no reason for it to be a static parameter.

 

Plus noone is asking for a FOV of 190 ...

The reasonable range is between 60 and 100, depending on the players preferences.

 

Well I can't argue with that because I don't fully understand the technical specifics. I only know that when I brought this issue up in the dev chat this is what I was told. But maybe they are being lazy and untruthful to me even in our internal conversations...

[Aerial]

FOV can be an accessibility issue for some users which is why it's disappointing for TFP to be talking about removing the ability to change it entirely.

 

Even though rendering a voxel world makes FOV more complicated, they should still be putting in the effort to make some amount of FOV adjustment available for those users who have vertigo issues and can be unable to play at the standard/current FOV setting.

[Damocles]

Well I can't argue with that because I don't fully understand the technical specifics. I only know that when I brought this issue up in the dev chat this is what I was told. But maybe they are being lazy and untruthful to me even in our internal conversations...

 

It easy to explain away an argument by referring to an obscure technical implementation.

 

So maybe a developer can make a statement then, if there is a hard technical reason behind locking the FOV, apart from pushing FPS and personal preference of whoever decided on that.

[Roland]

It easy to explain away an argument by referring to an obscure technical implementation.

 

Sure, sure....and if I was cynical and had any reason to believe that the devs needed to resort to such manipulations in their internal chatting with each other and me I guess I might suspect such a thing. But I don't see the motive. They looked to see what the industry standard was and noticed that many other games have a locked FOV and they wanted to be able to guarantee that for any configuration the game would play right and look right. I don't have any reason to disbelieve what they were saying.

 

I'm not against a slider. I want a FOV slider. In fact, I wish the way some are going about trying to change TFP's mind about it were doing it more deftly than calling them lazy and inept which is why I am calling that part of their posts into question. THAT is a strategy doomed to fail...

 

So maybe a developer can make a statement then, if there is a hard technical reason behind locking the FOV, apart from pushing FPS and personal preference of whoever decided on that.

 

maybe...but I can tell you they are extremely firm on this issue. As I said, when I brought it up and mentioned that people were hoping that they could at least make the console command stick or have it be exposed to xml they said that the console command capability might even be removed in the future. So...imagine them giving their reason and you either buying it or not buying it and they STILL double down on restricting access to FOV.

[AtomicUs5000]

Roland, as always, delivering messages of hope.

[Roland]

Roland, as always, delivering messages of hope.

 

I forget that there are a lot of you that would prefer a professional community manager who will spin and massage these types of things to make you feel better. Here, let me give it a go:

 

"The Fun Pimps take the concerns of the community seriously and have heard you on this issue. They will continue to look into changing the locked FOV back to an options-based slider so that players can choose the most comfortable view while playing. There are a lot of factors to consider and it has proven valuable to have a uniform FOV during development so we can say for sure the change will not occur for A18 but moving forward towards the gold release of the game it may be a possibility. For the time being, you can still enable alternate FOV via the command console if you find it necessary. Thank you and game on Survivors!"

 

 

 

Now that that's done I bet $1 that someone will take that paragraph above and use it later to rant that TFP promised the slider would be back after A18..... <sigh>

 

[AtomicUs5000]

Let me rephrase. Fallout 4 doesn't have a slider and that is a great game.

[Roland]

Let me rephrase. Fallout 4 doesn't have a slider and that is a great game.

 

I can't say that.

 

People around here are sick and tired of FO4 being used as an inspiration for the game. After the perk system overhaul using FO4 as reason for not having a slider would be political suicide for me.

 

;-)

[AtomicUs5000]

...spoiler...

 

Using this later in A17 is better..

 

Hey everyone, A16 involved some major features that took more time than we originally planned. Electricity, sleepers, block overhaul, and socket cities were all major changes that took a lot of time to implement. Therefore, the following features won't be in A16 but they will be coming in the future.

 

 

 

Zip Line system (Delayed)

* Attach zip lines and use them for quick escape routes or safe passage down treacherous mountains, Cross rivers and gorges!

[xXBadDreamXx]

Roland promised us things then he didn't deliver! get the pitchforks! Everything is Rolands fault!!!

[AtomicUs5000]

Roland, our liaison to the other realm, also admits that he listens in on Pimp talk, hears of the precious features they take away from us, and remains silent.

[ROTeN]

Dear DEV's what they are saying here in short is ......BRING BACK ALPHA 16.4!!!!! with Zombie loot PLEASE!!!!! and just work on the Bugs....> like the mini bike we don't need Trucks and fancy bikes or Gyrocopters .... give us back our choices ALPHA 16.4! ALPHA 16.4! ALPHA 16.4!

[SylenThunder]

Dear DEV's what they are saying here in short is ......BRING BACK ALPHA 16.4!!!!! with Zombie loot PLEASE!!!!! and just work on the Bugs....> like the mini bike we don't need Trucks and fancy bikes or Gyrocopters .... give us back our choices ALPHA 16.4! ALPHA 16.4! ALPHA 16.4!

Right-Click the game on the left menu of your Steam Library.

Choose Properties from the drop down menu.

In the Window that appears, select the "Betas" tab.

Choose a16.4 from the drop-down menu.

Click OK.

Wait for download.

Enjoy.

 

They are developing the game they want this to be. a16 was merely a stepping stone.

[AtomicUs5000]

Dear DEV's what they are saying here in short is ......BRING BACK ALPHA 16.4!!!!! with Zombie loot PLEASE!!!!! and just work on the Bugs....> like the mini bike we don't need Trucks and fancy bikes or Gyrocopters .... give us back our choices ALPHA 16.4! ALPHA 16.4! ALPHA 16.4!

 

No, it really isn't. I don't even care about the field of view. I never used it for this game. I only make a stink about FOV because a lot of people depend on it to prevent feeling sick.

 

I only care about LBD because it added a unique element to 7D2D. While I enjoyed the learn-by-doing aspects of the skills, they were a mess. It had problems that could have been resolved. A17 is all grind, and even more zombie grind. At least with LBD, you would see the immediate results of grind, and that was good enough for me. I much more enjoyed spending nights distributing several points with so many choices, rather than build up points for only one short moment of satisfaction when buying a perk... that was that, back to zombie grind. Even with this in mind, I do not want 16.4. The new perk system is ok... but it feels incomplete, it is unsatisfying, and it needs too much work right now to prefer it.

 

The last thing I want is to go back to a game where all challenge is gone simply by going underground. I especially never want to play a game where the zombies run around in circles a lot of the time, and the dogs even more. I will speak my mind about the zombie AI, because even though it is improved enough to remove these problems, they are now too predictable and the pathing is too exact and easily taken advantage of.

 

I make a stink about the removal of lootable bodies, especially on horde night. It did suck to clean up the mess, but now there is no reason to defend your base. You blow through hundreds of rounds, tons of resources for repair, only to get maybe 2 or 3 loot bags if you are even lucky enough to get to them before they despawn. You are better off riding around on a bike. Pedal backwards, btw.... because apparently you don't use stamina when pedaling backwards. They are uninteresting to watch, on stream or on video, because everybody uses similar AI-exploitative strategies.

 

Occasionally you would get caught in predicaments due to the environment. If you weren't dressed well in the snow and you happened to be wet, you could be in serious trouble. You would pick up rocks and wood to build a campfire to try to warm up before moving on. If you were lucky, you had something to drink to warm you up. In the heat, there were times where I had to get to water to cool off as quickly as possible or die. I think I mentioned about 4 features that do not exist or are broken in this paragraph alone.

 

I don't want 16.4 back. I just want its fun factor and charm back. For every thing that is good about A17, we lost something good about 16.4. What I want is the removal of everything that is bad instead.

 

I am really looking forward to A18. A lot of new stuff seems will make up for some things that were lost. I read just yesterday that the extra swing problem is FINALLY removed for some unknown update coming. Things like that should be fixed right away because they hinder the fun factor even more. There is a lot of talk about making good first impressions in the game. That extra swing was part of my first impression of A17, and we may not even see it fixed within A17. How many times were posts complaining about it? How quickly were people complaining about it after A17 first launched? I mention this because it seems like you have to point some problem out over and over and over before (and if) it gets resolved. So I understand that it may seem like I, or others, are just complaining, or want A16 back... but it simply is not the case.

[n2n1]

Many games have FOV locked.

There are a bunch of ways (including HEX editing) to unlock it.

Unlock always leads to an increase in FOV and no more different outcomes. Many people always do this on old and new games. When using the console command in the game 7dtd - i only get an increase in FOV. No problem with occlusions of promissory notes or anything.

 

By the way, in my case there is no strong drop in performance as a consequence of increasing FOV - everything happens proportionally as expected.

 

I think the reason - is laziness(no free time), or the inability of developers to solve the problem associated with looking beyond the surface texture in MP.

[Roland]

I read just yesterday that the extra swing problem is FINALLY removed for some unknown update coming. Things like that should be fixed right away because they hinder the fun factor even more.

 

I don't know....the mini-game of timing when to take the finger off the button so the extra swing doesn't occur is kind of growing on me. Its the only LBD skill left in the game...

[ROTeN]

I guess I need to clarify, I am not saying just go back to A-16 and stop. Good lord no ... A-17 took away the best part of the game...our choices on how we kill zeds and nerf'd everything that was cool and unique about the game. What I am saying is that A16.4 was a great starting point, then start refining and perfecting and working on bugs, not introducing a new and nerf up game. I have been playing and have been involved with this game since the beginning of A-8 and never, have I been disapointed on how they were evolving, but they have really gone in a wrong direction for a sandbox game with A17. What I am saying is that A16.4 was already good, it just need some perfecting and it is very sad to see the direction they are taking. The best part about this game was the fact that you could interact with everything in the world. well now you can't, not anymore. I highly suggest you read the first thread. This guy said everything that needed to be said and everything he said is right on he nose. We are basicly all saying the same things. we're just saying it differently. All i am saying is Please give us back the choices we had in 16.4 and the building and killing style it offered it was a lot more fun and rewarding. it saddens me look at the ratings now cause this is or i guess I should say... was the best game ever..

[Roland]

I think the reason - is laziness(no free time)

 

That.....is not the correct word to use for "no free time". For the situation of being "up-to-their-balls-in-bugs" and having "priority tickets up the wazoo" creating a maelstrom of time sucking work that is necessary and leaves no time for stuff not in their plan--

 

Rather than "laziness" I would go with "driven with a laser focus"

[n2n1]

That.....is not the correct word to use for "no free time". For the situation of being "up-to-their-balls-in-bugs" and having "priority tickets up the wazoo" creating a maelstrom of time sucking work that is necessary and leaves no time for stuff not in their plan--

 

Rather than "laziness" I would go with "driven with a laser focus"

Yeah, that's what i mean

[Ghostlight]

The last thing I want is to go back to a game where all challenge is gone simply by going underground.

 

I assume you mean horde night challenge, right? Because exploring and looting challenge is unaffected by whether your base is underground. Well, does it matter any more, given A17 horde is the least challenging horde night has ever been in any alpha?

[AtomicUs5000]

I assume you mean horde night challenge, right? Because exploring and looting challenge is unaffected by whether your base is underground. Well, does it matter any more, given A17 horde is the least challenging horde night has ever been in any alpha?

 

Yes, it always matters.

[HungryZombie]

No, it really isn't. I don't even care about the field of view. I never used it for this game. I only make a stink about FOV because a lot of people depend on it to prevent feeling sick.

 

I only care about LBD because it added a unique element to 7D2D. While I enjoyed the learn-by-doing aspects of the skills, they were a mess. It had problems that could have been resolved. A17 is all grind, and even more zombie grind. At least with LBD, you would see the immediate results of grind, and that was good enough for me. I much more enjoyed spending nights distributing several points with so many choices, rather than build up points for only one short moment of satisfaction when buying a perk... that was that, back to zombie grind. Even with this in mind, I do not want 16.4. The new perk system is ok... but it feels incomplete, it is unsatisfying, and it needs too much work right now to prefer it.

 

The last thing I want is to go back to a game where all challenge is gone simply by going underground. I especially never want to play a game where the zombies run around in circles a lot of the time, and the dogs even more. I will speak my mind about the zombie AI, because even though it is improved enough to remove these problems, they are now too predictable and the pathing is too exact and easily taken advantage of.

 

I make a stink about the removal of lootable bodies, especially on horde night. It did suck to clean up the mess, but now there is no reason to defend your base. You blow through hundreds of rounds, tons of resources for repair, only to get maybe 2 or 3 loot bags if you are even lucky enough to get to them before they despawn. You are better off riding around on a bike. Pedal backwards, btw.... because apparently you don't use stamina when pedaling backwards. They are uninteresting to watch, on stream or on video, because everybody uses similar AI-exploitative strategies.

 

Occasionally you would get caught in predicaments due to the environment. If you weren't dressed well in the snow and you happened to be wet, you could be in serious trouble. You would pick up rocks and wood to build a campfire to try to warm up before moving on. If you were lucky, you had something to drink to warm you up. In the heat, there were times where I had to get to water to cool off as quickly as possible or die. I think I mentioned about 4 features that do not exist or are broken in this paragraph alone.

 

I don't want 16.4 back. I just want its fun factor and charm back. For every thing that is good about A17, we lost something good about 16.4. What I want is the removal of everything that is bad instead.

 

I am really looking forward to A18. A lot of new stuff seems will make up for some things that were lost. I read just yesterday that the extra swing problem is FINALLY removed for some unknown update coming. Things like that should be fixed right away because they hinder the fun factor even more. There is a lot of talk about making good first impressions in the game. That extra swing was part of my first impression of A17, and we may not even see it fixed within A17. How many times were posts complaining about it? How quickly were people complaining about it after A17 first launched? I mention this because it seems like you have to point some problem out over and over and over before (and if) it gets resolved. So I understand that it may seem like I, or others, are just complaining, or want A16 back... but it simply is not the case.

 

I'm curious, how is your underground base doing now? Is the challenge sufficient?

[Ghostlight]

Yes, it always matters.

 

What I meant was that that A16.4, for all its flaws in the AI, presented a more challenging horde night than A17 does. You stated you did want to go back to a version where the AI was no challenge, so I pointed out that that in the current version, the AI is even less challenging.

[Roland]

What I meant was that that A16.4, for all its flaws in the AI, presented a more challenging horde night than A17 does. You stated you did want to go back to a version where the AI was no challenge, so I pointed out that that in the current version, the AI is even less challenging.

 

Is the day almost over?