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Not alone, maybe in the minority, I dunno. I hate it thou; both that POI and the new design. There was some discussion earlier about the prison in this thread: That was started way back in the good times, when I still thought stealth might become a fun spec to play at some point in the future... The title isn't too mean, IMO, just quite vague, would be nice to see the topics of today's whines from the menu ..

The mod is a good solution, and I wouldn't mind improvements in game.. but here's how I fixed that. I started using wood blocks or logs. 8 minutes a pop, most crafts will only take a couple. The time I save from the counting is time I can swing at a tree and I'll have net wood in the end... one just needs to choose what to OCD about, click count works fine

Like the attack volumes? There's at least one trigger that's outdoors in a wide enough space that basically requires an area trigger (the energy station with couple magical double doors surrounding the end loot, tier two POI or so), otherwise the player might just walk around it... So I'd say it's possible, just not the intended use for most of them. Which is worse in my book, they actually decided to make them like this.

This one is so granular that it turns predictable... it's like predicting "how many sixes have I rolled after a 1000 dice rolls" ... about 166. Give or take twelve. The old system, if you wanted to craft your main weapon, or the crucible, the day you'd get it would be completely dictated by the one random roll. No indications of "how close" you were, no progress towards it, you either got it from RNG or didn't. That's pretty completely at the mercy of the RNG gods .. and trust me, they are fickle, I've felt their moods often...

Sorta along with Riamus in games this far, mostly limited by steel as I haven't really taken it from quest rewards. Stone tier upgraded asap of course, Iron whenever I happen to get to it - the fixes to the scaling of mods/damage might entice me more, but I won't have the forged iron either and I won't see me bothering to harvest for it. Easier to eventually just pull apart a couple gas pumps for the steel for the top tier Q1 version. Then again, after my current run is thru, I won't be surprised if I never read another magazine again (outside a few cookbooks). Doesn't really feel worth the hassle for a temporary upgrade..

I agree with most of that, annoyed to my core blocking automagical-doorway-portals with bar blocks as there's nothing to clear behind them before I press the magic button. For 4. "consider the player level against the POIs", I'd have say, at least they're trying, and IMO have done a pretty decent job at it. Lower level POIs don't really spawn anything really nasty, rarely even as Infestations. And for 5. I agree, but I also expect most those to be added at best right before or even somewhat after going gold. Making more and more options early is a complexity issue in development and testing, which will even become completely pointless when settings end up getting cut for one reason or another. But overall, yeah; less arcade features, more of the unique-zombie-sandbox gameplay please

Yes. As in, both.. The floaters aren't that much of a cheese (other than aesthetics), zeds usually find something relevant to break. There's plenty of "more cheesy" things in game.. But even when I'm using something that technically floats, I'll use something like a corner to make it look somewhat attached to the world. I don't mind, logically or emotionally, but it feels like it makes things a bit easier to "navigate" in a way.

If lifting everything feels like heavy lifting, you can try to cover the gap with either plates (for a sidewalk-feel, there's also sidewalk blocks), or something like planter boxes - if the build allows. But reading this thread ... have noneofyas actually made the Flying Plate Monstrosity yet? Place plates on the ground "naturally", rotate the blocks to the top and place a row of those on the lower plates. (Hard to aim, aim the first ones from above) Now you have a flying plate with complete structural integrity, one you can walk/crouch under. Useful? What?

Yeah, no, sorry. Already have an active warning point, don't need an A3-violation on top of that. One thing I haven't pointed out about the original one-liner that spawned this page of diversion is this: I (also) kinda posted it to show some respect for BFT's modding efforts, as I had snarked at him earlier... but the well meaning quip has now been completely neutered, so: Kudos for yer efforts @BFT2020! With that, I'm bowing out of that derailment; if you actually want me to reply to something about that, mega or anyone, drop me a DM.

That is pretty common too, now that you mention it. I've actually been abusing the three meter Parkour to trigger it lately, just jumping high enough makes them go into "destroy area" -mode pretty reliably. But even without jumping they'll just waddle off somewhere, on occasion. I did have some issues getting them to path a .. "horde base". A playground fence of a Poopy Pants, three high half blocks, on top of which I made two little boxes, to different sides from a corner I placed an up ramp to. They did walk the fence fine to one of them, but couldn't figure out the other, so they spun in circles couple meters away from the confusing one. Shortening the distance didn't help, so I think it was something to do with the plate-pole blocks I ended up using. But if it was a "no-path" situation, they should've gone Destroy Area, but didn't really; they were just running a tiny circle like a zombie mosh pit...

I think you've already figured out though, it sounds like it's just really short paths. I saw JaWoodle struggle with it a bit, but it didn't look that out of the ordinary; he had an unusually long loop for his penetrator spec. Similar effect, stand on the wrong side of your safe area and zeds would not path, stand on the right side and suddenly at least some would.

How is anything there a half block? That trash (top-mid of picture) is sitting flat on the concrete level, so that's a full block face at the top? The terrain border, yeh, that can't be done in game. Artificially raised, if you touch it wrong it'll revert to the default ditch. Sadly I'm not one to advice on prefab editor either, there _must_ be some tools, but I can't point the way..

Sounds about "as intended". Usually something simple, like a wood block in a doorway, turn most those fights into relative easy-mode. The POIs themselves are designed to offer some defensive options, but spotting those on on the fly and using the well might need some quick feet; easier to be somewhat prepared.

Ye, good point, they couldn't even really work like that. I did know it, but I'm being intentionally cautious with my statements; it's a new alpha and all ...

Leading question.. those two questions covered my original point, you missed one: "Is a crafting re-write pointless to the discussion" in thread "Traders and quests need to be nerfed"? I'd say "crafting" is one of the things "traders and quests" need to be balanced against; I was talking to BFT, specifically about BFT's mod(ding). But since you want to talk about all kinds of mods, from all kinds of people, for all kinds of motivations and NOT BFT's crafting re-write, you will consider the point "Irrelevant, Your Honor! Not all mods are like that!". Feel free, but you'll miss the point then. Did BFT spend a thousand hours on exactly crafting? Probably not, I wouldn't know. But he's kept that part in the mod and advocates for changing things in that direction, so I'd assume he likes the results over a prolonged period of time. He has walked the walk of actually changing the trader / crafting balance to his liking, tested it out - why would I assume he doesn't think it's for the better? He's done it to make it worse for himself, and advocates others to share in his misery? My 5 hours complaining about stealth have been entertaining, nothing beats a good whining session. Thanks for asking My inability/unwillingness to learn to create a better stealth system for the game... my draft ideas would require a re-design of basically all POIs and probably quite a few C#-level re-writes so I don't even pretend to want to take the task upon me. Makes my whining a lot less significant, as I have NOT tested anything I want. His stated motivation.. "wanted to add my uniqueness". Sure, so it's still his unique opinion, has someone somewhere argued something different?

I would think the quest generators are separate from the player electric system... have you actually done something with them outside of the Restore Power -quests, or just guessing they would work? They do sorta look like they should, but I'd be highly surprised if they did.

I'm usually in the opposite side of dodging the point. I would lose my mind trying to avoid answering a question as much as they do... You might not vote for it, but your actions speak louder than your words .. Yes, there's a split there, between "you voting for what is good for the general audience and/or TFP" and "you 'voting' for what's good for you".. but for the latter, your mod is the actual 'vote' that counts.

A stronger VOTE. A vote is still essentially an opinion, no? "stronger", in the sense of "I think they actually might mean it." The concept is the same as in "Watch what they do, not what they say." With possibly a less negative connotation.

Not what I've argued. If you want me to reply, figure out a way to answer the questions I posed.

"Nobody" is a strong word; I don't hate it. You're free to of course But it might well be that I've toned the ambient sounds way down.. I do remember hearing winds and such, and some birds every now and then, so they're not completely off, but for the most part they don't register for me at all. And I am one the people who can get annoyed by an IRL bird chirping repetitively while I'm trying to sleep... wtb a shotgun! ok, no, the neighbour might not enjoy that..

Reading with a little steel-manning might help, especially with me .. I invented a pointless "mod" on the spot, just to show that I fully understand there are different types of mods, ranging from absolutely pointless to literal fixes to base game, to full overhauls completely making new games. Was shorter that way, and a little funnier, but here I am explaining myself again, wasting that time-saving-measure. My bad. But as I went on to say, I don't think what BFT2020 is doing with his mod is pointless to the discussion? You not saying anything about the actual point makes me ask, do you agree? Is a crafting re-write pointless to the discussion of game balance in the area? Do you agree that a person spending, say 1000 hours (sorry BFT, I'm probably underselling your work) to "fix" something is a lot stronger show of actual belief of there being something wrong, than my measly 5...50 hours (however you want to measure it) of whining about stealth on the forums?

Turned to rad? I don't think that's a thing.. some of them are real hard to tell if rad or not while laying down. Hoodie and hazmat especially, but others have surprised me as well. "3 others" might be a feature of an attack volume, they'll all get woken up if you attack one from outside the volume. Or you may have missed a shot and woken them "naturally". But yeh, ladders are not fun when in a hurry, just yeet yourself off the roof at that point

Kinda, yes. But as you go on to say, there's all kinds of mods. If you do a face-swap on doom guy to have your handsome mug on him, that's not much of problem with vanilla Doom. But I don't think that matters here as BFT is modding pretty much the exact thing we're discussing in this thread. And my point was to make the comparison: if one spends days and weeks of their life to mod a core game feature to be better, there's really nothing I even could say in a forum that would indicate more strongly that I _think_ there's something wrong with it. I mean I've whined for days about the stealth gameplay being borked both ways, but that doesn't come close to the effort BFT sounds to have taken. Voting with his labor, not with whining like me.

I'd almost be surprised if there wasn't a mod out already to get them in ... but wtb for vanilla too ofc! Lagfest? Well, at least we'd have nice things to look at during the stutters!

But not the one we were all quoting But I basically wrote about the same thing, just not making the logical leap to replayability - just because the rails are quite visibly there on your First go as well