meganoth

He said "all" which would have included me. And obviously RipClaw (👍) did understand what I was saying.

He obviously didn't spec into Daring Adventurer 😎😉

Strange. That would suggest that screamers can not spawn more often than once an hour (but if you reach 200% or 300% maybe they come in groups). Once an hour (aka every 6 minutes) might be ok for a server with 8 people, they should have the manpower to deal with this in more than one way. Why is a screamer a punishment for you but a wandering horde isn't ?

Please differentiate. I never said that and I don't think it is a relevant argument. In my single player it actually happens that they stand around full for a long time, but at the same time in SP I also don't get any noticable streamer visits (actually something I want to complain about, there should be more). Sling told me that in his experiment workbench heat stops at max 25%. Seems to be a safety mechanism. But that safety mechanism won't work with a bunch of dew collectors if that limit is per single dew collector. Because if it were say at 12% and you have 10 dew collectors then you would reach 100 before any individual collector reaches that limit Were they separated or coming at the same time? In the latter case it could have been screamer spawning screamers. In my co-op game we set up a round of spike traps around our base. With 7 dews, one campfire,forge and workbench. No screamers at all for 3 days, except one of us thinks he heard a screamer when driving away.

Was the buildup of heat continuous over an in-game hour or is it a jump of 20% every hour? I would assume it was continuous, but like to be sure.

Start the game through startserver.sh. If you read that script (especially the last line) you will see it calls the executable with a parameter "-logfile". I would assume without that parameter no logfile.

So who is this serious games or software dev? Tell us his name, or let him speak here. There is a very practical difference there. I try out changes and actually test them to find out whether there is something to critizise. You know, the scientific method.

I would call that watching a spoiler video and hey, that is everyone's own decision whether to watch that before playing the game. But even if you know, the important detail about an internal mechanism is that it does not matter if it is realistic or not, it just controls screamer spawn behind the scenes. As long as screamers spawn in relation to the size and power of your base (which seems to be the intended correlation) then it doesn't matter how that value is reached or whether that abstraction is realistic. That doesn't mean that it may be badly balanced right now, just the principle is fine. Yes, correct. In A20 we had some multiplying screamers visit our base. In normal difficulty in forest biome! Instead of trying to kill the screamers which simply didn't work we had to use knowledge about an internal mechanism 😉 and run far enough away to despawn them. Not sure if it still can happen, but I think multiplying screamers should be relegated to the wasteland.

Since your current position seems so extreme I have no idea how to even be in the same hemisphere. I frankly don't know why you still play the game or do EA at all. Do you really think feedback like is talking about facts or seriously discussing the game and the changes? Don't you see that you are just having a tantrum there? Why should anyone take you serious? They are not infallible, sure. They missed the quality overlap between stone tools and tier 1 tools and didn't notice it. Many, including me by the way, told them about this being wrong in a matter of fact way and they changed it. Not by standing on a sandbox and shouting "Are they lazy, incompetent or what?" (They currently are also wrong with stealth (probably) and there need to be balance fixes eventually. But because I don't have played a full stealth game yet and compared it to a STR or FOR play I can't exactly say anything for sure. Does that make me careful with what I am saying or a believer?) The dew collector solution is ok and accomplishes what it sets out to do, but I wouldn't say it is their best idea. But the heat change is fine and easily understandable if you accept what heat means in the game. I am not just making up theories, there are precedents in other games, even board games where it is apparent to everyone that such a mechanism is just an abstraction.

Naturally they expected players to make a farm of them! I was using irony to show that your theory is silly.

I am sure that Heat is supposed to be an internal mechanism that normal players should not know about except that some tooltip says "Your activities can make you conspicuous and you might get visited by zombies" and they would experience slowly what that means. The players would then find out by themselves that the more stuff they set up in their bases the more often they get visited.

I just was going by your statement that the water problem is gone in 2 days. And since glue AND food production all need water they are part of the problem in my opinion and that means the water problem is not gone in 2 days. It is. There are small water sources in cities, not big lakes, but pools or canals. Just put your POI near one close to the trader, set up the fireplace directly beside it and no matter how few jars you have you have endless water to craft drinking water and glue. Whether that would be the solution many players would take? I don't know. And maybe water sources in towns and cities could also be removed again, not sure how many there are. Just saying that with the current game setup players could easily have as much water as they want, but with inventory grind as the solution. I agree that the trader is not a beautiful method for creating a slowly increasing and reliable water production (I assume reliable and slowly increasing were reasons for choosing the trader) But on solutions in general: On the wall of my room hangs a quote from H.L. Mencken: "For every complex problem, there is a simple, easy-to-understand wrong answer." There have been so many "easy" solutions for water been proposed, without any test play with an implementation I don't take it at face value that they work. Especially when some solve imagined problems instead of what TFP wanted to fix. Or were obviously not accomplishing what they set out to do. Your proposed solution has a problem as well. We have to ignore the requirement to remove water jars from the game. Yes, it probably would be better in a few categories, like inernal consistency. But they wanted a solution without water jars.

Imagine changing the rules to European Football ("soccer" for people from the US I think) and redefine when touching the ball with your hands and arms is a penalty or not. 😉 (Hint: that rule was changed a lot in recent years. And that game is not even in EA)

Not sure, but this fix might only be about removing a setting in the serverconfig that wasn't USED at all. Since it is only relevant for the clients and not the server! So just die now and tell us how it went 😁

Sure, TFP could have done that as well or even instead of the heat generation, but they didn't and there is nothing forcing them to do that as well. It seems it is enough that the cost is in zombie visits which is arguably more fun to most people (except you naturally) than deteriorating equipment. Yeah sure, TFP did add 3 filters to each trader and you think they did not expect that groups of players would build farms of them, even though that was the first thing some players complained about the dew collectors?? Sorry, your conspiracy theory makes no sense.

I am a fan of the spike traps solution. The additonal maintenance work is offset by the satisfaction of hearing another screamer having a bad day at the office 😉 Ah, okay. I think I would agree with you here, not a nerf that seemed necessary. EDIT: On the other hand adding some blocks to secure the pipe from getting hit isn't that difficult, and it still has no cost at all to it. Maybe we should ask Faatal, he would probably know the reason.

Ok, not as deadly as I suspected. I didn't even try to touch that flame because I thought that looked like insta-death and I was often enough killed because I walked into my own spike traps 🤪. Still that flame trap has no cost. Can you craft it from day 1? Or do you need creative menue to place it?

That is a valid argument. If they spawn too often for a reasonable setup then it must be adjusted. Maybe the linear scale they are operating with at the moment (i.e. 4 dews produce 4 times the heat of 1 dew) is too much. Since any group of players above 3 would have a similar setup like you now I think the chances are very good that this will get another balancing pass eventually.

No. That is your interpretation of what happened. For me it looks more logical that they simply forgot to include the heat generation in a few workstations and noticed it suddenly. It isn't even certain that it was noticed with the collectors but likely because currently dew collectors are tested a lot more than the cement mixer. But it is certainly telling that it was added to 3 workstations at the same time. I even think that filled farm plots should also generate a small amount of heat. Did you know that in A15 farms plants were actually targeted by zombies and had to be protected by walls? There is a good chance that TFP eventually does add some "heat cost" to plots, and please remember I said it here. It will not be a reaction and nerf bat to some players having big farms, it will simply be because they want to measure the players "influence and activity" on an area with as much accuracy and as low as possible CPU cycles. And they want NO 100% safe zones. Because of that zombies dig, and workstations are zombie magnets. There has been no problems with dew collectors. But there seems to be a problem with no screamers showing up. In my SP game I am on day 35 and I haven't seen a single screamer. In our group game we are somewhere after second horde night and again, not a single screamer. TFP likes zombies to attack the player, that is one of the central game elements of 7D2D and really any zombie game. If you don't like to be visited by a screamer once in a while I have to wonder why you play a zombie game? TFP probably doesn't know either, they think screamers are fun. I don't know the details, sorrry. But I can imagine that flame traps were simply OP. Were they? They don't seem to need any sort of fuel or upkeep and they don't wear out. Would they kill ferals or even glowies when they walked through? If yes, then they were OP. So they were nerfed, this time actually as a reaction to players using them. Does that make TFP the villain in this piece? I would say it makes them the balance-maker. Balance trumps realism I would say. Because it is not a stupid decision. It follows the same design principle they always had: "No place is secure". If you don't like that doesn't mean it is stupid.

There are so many ways to deal with screamers: 1) Surround your base with 1-2 rows of spike traps, look over them and repair from time to time. 2) Make a bigger base and distribute the heat generating items over the range that heat is generated 3) Create multiple farms or separate your farms from the main base The mechanic of "heat generation" is similar to activity measurement in other games, it simply is an abstration of how you are active in that area. And zombies visiting you in a zombie game should not be a surprise to you. Zombies are not Zombies-for-hire, you can't say "Hey, the next hour doesn't suit me, please come back another time, or wait, I'll visit you in that POI in a few hours". They game never worked that way and will never in vanilla.

I don't have any interactions with the dev team except by reading what they post on the forum. So I don't know the answer.

That thing needed a nerf like no other item in the game.

You are not thinking about the many ways this game is played. In our co-op game water was and is an issue, at the local trader we could only buy 3 filters. Enough to make sure, we never needed to drink from a lake, but not enough for our glue production at the same time. So we still bought water from the trader and finally went to a second trader to buy more collectors. In my SP game I just started a new base somewhere else and since I haven't found time to go back I actually bought new filters. At the moment I am short on glue again. I you think THAT would be fun, then we have very different opinions about fun. Making stacks small so everyone has to do click-marathons in their inventory is a game mechanic for masochists. And you probably would disallow filling the jars from open water like lakes, right? If not, all that would be easily circumvented. But without getting water from lakes it probably would work. Though TFP also wanted to remove jars. So they went with a different solution

It is very easy: I usually want a farm with a steady production of plants, enough to feed x players. And the math is simply that 1 farm plot gives me about 1.5 plants at Lotl1. TFP could have spared players the turnaround with seeds and randomness and just made a harvest of 1.5 plants for about the same result. But since they didn't everyone now has additional choices. If you have x farm plots with say potatoes and x*1.5 potatoes isn't enough for you then you can either invest in more farm plots, or invest in more LotL, or draw more plants out of the system reducing your harvest in the long term like you would draw your money out of a bank reducing your interest rates. Only if you are thinking about doing the last option is it at all relevant how many plants you need to craft a seed as that is the amount you draw "out of the bank" for losing a seed. But again, since I often want a steady production I simply convert plants to seeds "to make ends meet", and I don't care how many plants get wasted in the process, because if I want the wheel turning I have to invest that or invest more points in LotL. I expect on average to get 1.5 plants per harvest per farm plot. That is the important number. LotL1 2 and 3 naturally have different and increasing return rates. Some players say they only accept LotL3, some players are ok with LotL2 and some players even with LotL1. There is no qualitative difference between those perk levels except that only LotL3 makes it impossible to have such a bad harvest that it could shrink your farm size.

It is possible that I am already agreeing with you, see my post in another thread an hour ago: https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/32424-a21-is-definately-better-but/?do=findComment&comment=527137 At the moment I expect TFP to release a patch with more balance fixes in the near future, i.e. it is their move now. Whatever it is, it will change things somewhat, maybe solve some problems, maybe create new 😉.