meganoth

Well, all three sources give you the same stuff. If any one gives you everything the others become secondary, with the exception that with crafting the other sources could still function as material sources. In A20 and before crafting was very planable as you just needed to invest into the perks and could almost reliably plan when to build everything up to iron q5. Because it was planable it had to be inferior/slower than looting. As crafting is now a smooth progression but still somewhat random it could very well be on par with looting or only slightly behind. So for example you might find better melee weapons than you can craft but since you found more armor magazines you might be ahead with crafting your armor (all IMHO) And the trader could have better stuff if money is made scarce enough, otherwise he needs to be only a safety net and therefore worse than what can be found or crafted.

Building as alternative activities is fine IMHO. Looting and looting with quests have the same goals of basically getting stuff and money and are directly comparable. Building is about using whatever you got from those activities and mining. And the normal player will not start building a massive base at lvl 1. He usually builds a small base or bases to survive the first horde night and with better tools and better materials extend that into what may become a massive base eventually. And since you get XP for upgrading you also progress while building. Just now our group is two days before a horde night and we decided to use those two days to prepare a new horde base (and abandon our first). Now I think 2 days is not really enough for that and consequently our new base will suffer from some hasty design decisions. But I think it shows that at least with out group building is not replaced by quests. Though we did only the absolute minimum preparation with our 7day horde base.

As I said, just a conjecture of you. I disagree, I find removing the ubiquitous glass jars that nobody ever wanted to see in loot was in line with the removal of other almost useless or too frequent items, for example the turds or the zombie loot bags. I don't even know if TFP themselves had uniformity as a reason or ever mentioned why they exactly wanted glass jars removed. The gas cans and acid cans were usually brought as examples from Roland or myself in discussions among us forum users. And it was to argue that it isn't something exceptional and people will just get used to it, as they have been doing that with gas cans all the time without asking why their motorcycle swallows plastic cans. Crafting was broken in A20 and before (and many players were complaining by the way), and I was posting the reasons why they probably did it even before they mentioned them "officially". If even I can spot the reasons immediately then there really must be something wrong. Now if the reasons don't seem important to you and the new solution steps on your shoes that doesn't mean they aren't valid reasons, and the stepping on your shoes could be anything from hidden agenda, one of many reasons, or just a coincidence. What you as stay-at-home player never seem to take into consideration is that your use case might be ignored by TFP and any changes are not about you. They are about getting the balance right for the "normal" players (as defined by TFP) who build, but also loot and do everything the game offers. And while crafting is momentarily not "there" yet, anyone could experience that with the first experimental it was OP and with the second experimental too weak again. Which means somewhere inbetween could easily be a spot where it would be well balanced with looting. And even now you can see how the progression in crafting is finally smooth, something impossible with the old system. If you can't acknowledge that there is progress in that change then my only conclusion is that your feelings have taken over your reasoning.

Great men think alike 😁. The same test occured to me, though double dipping is not necessary as I am sure you find the same stuff in a POI whether it was created in RWG or after a quest reset. So I would just do a quest and compare loot with loot+reward Another test could do the same with infestations quests though, it might be different.

The reasons they told us are different and sound believable (to me). If you think they are lying or not telling us all reasons you should at least mention that this is your conjecture and not a fact. I think Madmole has said on occaison that they want people to go out and loot, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the skill and water changes were done for this reason.

My impression is: In single player clearing POIs with quest gives about 3 times as much value as clearing it without quest. When playing in a 4 player group that factor seems more like 5 times as much. My gut feeling is that most players would have enough incentive to do quests even with a factor as low as 1.3 or 1.5. But with such overwhelming odds the only reasons not to do quests are meta-reasons like "I don't like the quest loop" or "I want a slower progression and not questing is needed for this". In my group game we like to do quests, and some of us don't like the slow progression especially in the stone age, so neither meta-reason really applies to us. Preferably the game should be well enough balanced that the decision to loot a nearby house instead of treking back to the trader would be a rationally valid decision from time to time (i.e. "ok, I will not get as much value out of it, but I save some time, it gets near evening and I need stuff I can get from that house"). With a factor of 3 or 5 that is never ever possible.

Sure, but even if the quest rewards were fixed to not include OP weapons you would still get too much money out of them and could buy all the stuff the trader offers you with DA perked even minimally.

It is possible that much of that imbalance is because of DA. This is only my observation but in our group we have a player investing heavily in lucky looter, which resulted in no measurable difference at all. And two people with 1 and 3 points in DA and even with only 1 point there were (affordable) iron and steel level items available. Either they should not be easily affordable or they should not be offered at all at that quality, even with DA investment. Oh, and I agree with Saltychipmunk that trader rewards are just as problematic or more.

A partial fix for Daring Adventurer might be that instead of a traderstage buff some (not all) DA levels would just add a quality level to any weapon, tool or armor. So if everyone else would get a quality 3 iron axe from a quest the player perked into DA would get offered a quality 4 or 5 iron axe. Though I don't know, maybe if they just balance the traderstage buff correctly then the result might be the same (?). But with the fixed quality boost the advantage is a lot easier to understand for the player.

But my impressions from posts here (and my own group game) is that doesn't seem to be the case for players starting with a new game after the nerf. Without the boost you got from the first experimental you may have had the same experience, who knows.

Ok. I tried your way of calling it with my server, which is located in /home/days/server.a21.0/. And it created new directories inside so that the logfile was /home/days/server.a21.0/server.a21.0/7DaysToDieServer_Data/output_log__2023-07-04__20-19-42.txt Note the two "server.a21.0". This is because the script first creates the variable SERVERDIR as relative path "./server.a21.0/", and then changes into server.a21.0/ with "cd". And then the server is started and it creates "./server.a21.0/7DaysToDieServer_Data/output..." in the server directory with all intermediate directories. A correct script would use "realpath" for example to convert the path to an absolute path before using dirname.

I have a similar experience now. Group of 4, on day 12 as well, but two of us have specced into DA. We have a bunch of tier3 items: I think about 2-3 steel armors, 1 military armor, pickaxe, axe and shovel in steel, tier3 wrench whatever it is called. A steel sledgehammer and maybe steel spear and shotgun. All either bought from the trader or as quest rewards. In loot we found a few iron level items, crafting of some weapons has not even reached quality 3 stone. I don't think crafting and loot are that much apart, just finding less cooking and medicine magazines might almost make up for the difference. Part of the trader problem may be DA, another part is probably that quests just give too much dukes in addition to the item rewards. We could afford everything interesting we saw at the trader

I would call them lemmings 😉

They have at least two possible ways to achieve an accepable balance: 1) Individual magazines that are found in more places (like the cooking magazine) or have less competition in their loot boxes (medical) get general correction values for their drop probability until tests games seem balanced. I would assume they have a loot simulator software after all this time where they can test this without human interaction, if not that is something they should write even this late in the game as it saves a lot of time. 2) An easier way would be to find out how often specific boxes are looted by an average player and how often a specific magazine drops from those and adjust the probabilities of those individual loot boxes so that every magazine is found with the same probability. So the probability of finding cooking magazines in cupboards would decrease as well as the probability of medical magazines in medicine "piles". And the probability and number of weapon mags in safes would have to increase. Now naturally players will tend to look for specific magazines and prefer looting one type of loot box. But that a player can influence his chances is intended by the current design of 7d2d, only the 'average' case where a player does not look for specific loot boxes has to yield every magazine with about the same probability.

Yes and no. If you agree / make a deal that everyone gets to open a box of the main stash then you can quest together. If you can't co-operate that way then you either have to get your weapons from trader or loot directly or hope RNG is with you as your magazines will also drop in the loot boxes your co-players loot. If that isn't enough as well then the best option is probably to split up, at least when you have the chance for shotgun messiah for example and you wanted weapon magazines.

Ah yes, I understand why people would protest it being survival. Though that view will **literally** die out 😉. Really, nothing is as fluid as the definition of game genres.

We simply may have a different definition of survival in mind, but we are not having a meaningful discussion right now (sure, I see your smilies, the answer is to your first sentence which seems to be serious(??)). Food production and eating is survival in my book and I have enough food and good enough food in my game. As I said I have no problem being in the plains IF I have eaten my three meals. But to do that I have always to do my survival part of procuring and eating foods at appropriate times.

Are we playing the same game? To advance you need to "farm" the current biome where you eventually have to kill the end boss. For example we are at the moment collecting materials from the plains. Any measly firefly will kill me if I have no buff food into and she gets the first hit in. With buff food neither fireflies nor the goblins (whatever they are really called) are a thread except in big numbers), but without I would not be able to do anything in the plains without multiple corpse runs a day. Yeah sure, I could instead sit in meadows forever and never die. That's not playing the game. And I hate Valheims food system. I am so happy that 7D2D doesn't copy it. Their progression system for weapons and armor is great though

I would agree if the buff were something you could ignore. But surviving in higher biomes and especially the biome you are currently farming at any one time is almost impossible (for normal players) without having eaten the appropriate buff food. The dozen of times I was killed by "low level" monsters simply because I went somewhere without eating or forgot to rebuff is probably a lot more than most players because I often forget to look down at the food UI, but I assume everyone has a few deaths of that sort happen to him.

I may have had the same occuring. I remember one time where I was sure a zombie was dead. I turned around and seconds later he hit me from behind. But I may have just been confused.

Almost all changes have multiple reasons. In this case removing glass jars was another important reason for them. I am not surprised that veteran players can adapt to whatever TFP throws at them. But even they should feel sometimes limited by the available water depending on how they play. In my SP game I did never come near dying of thirst, there were always ways to get water. But in the first days I could not do all the crafting and cooking I wanted and had to buy food and water from the trader which actually made a dent in my duke pile and didn't allow me to buy anything else. And only after I had 2 dew collectors did I actually have enough water to produce small amounts of glue. Not enough though so I bought another filter. Did I do something wrong? Was I not playing as efficient as you? Probably. Was water survival harder for me than in A20. Definitely. Question for you: As a veteran was food ever a problem for you? DId you ever starve? Was there ever a time (with trader) that you couldn't find food at the trader or simply hunt a few chicken to get food? So what is the difference? Have you ever played Valheim for example? Did you ever starve there? Was getting food ever a problem? If no, would you say Valheim has no food survival? My point: Survival doesn't even mean that the thing is limited, it just means you have to expend some effort to get it. And buying for it or scrounging for it is effort same as buying a filter and harvesting dew collectors They may have added more food to loot because some of the early recipes need water. Or maybe they simply changed the loot tables to remove or decrease frequency of some other items and now automatically food is more common. It isn't easy to balance loot tables where any change has side effects. PS: To get a bigger sample we could do a poll and ask how much avaliability of water was or was not a hindrance to forum users (and whether it was in their mind while playing) in their latest SP game. Interested?

Topic moved

This argument does not make sense in a game where there are alternatives for some needs.. You don't even need farming as well, lots of alternatives. You don't even need hunting. You don't even need the gyro for travel. You don't even need run&gun perks when using heavy armor and shotgun. You don't even need lockipcking. Furthermore I would only assume veterans to get by easy without dew collector. And lastly you yourself mentioned 3 cases where you need them. 😉

He probably meant litenetlib AND steamnetworking. At default steamnetworking is disabled.

I have no idea. I was quoting someone. Maybe sale price.