Roland

Building and mining are definitely important core parts of the game but like you said, you don’t have to engage in those activities. So maybe exploring and scavenging are the most core. 😂

I don't see this change as complete overhaul or "once again switching everything around". The A20 system is still intact for A21 with the exception that learning crafting recipes for most things have been shifted from perks and books over to magazines. You still progress your skills of using the weapons and tools exactly the same way. All they did was decouple the crafting of recipes from the attributes (which I might add) was something people were asking for. In other words the A21 perk and crafting system have undergone a development iteration that splits off crafting from the attributes and the use skills and at the same time encourages players to explore and scavenge-- which are core features of the gameplay. This change doesn't have anything to do with Learn By Doing. The devs don't hate it, btw. They just don't consider it any longer. It was dropped from development 4-5 years ago from their perspective and they long ago moved on. Its only certain fans that won't let go and bring it up again and again and again...futilely, I might add. As for being annoyed about it being brought up over and over and over, they've learned to live with such things thanks to all the console gamers.

Cart meet horse. He…um….has to be first so please back up a bit. Thanks.

Bandits (and their POIs) are actively being worked on. They are no longer on the back burner. Hopefully the stew will be done by A21.

If it makes you feel better just read my “you” as being a generalized “you” for anyone who could be called a veteran player. It’s pretty reasonable to expect any such person to not get as many hours of further enjoyment from updates that are meant to bolster the basic version of the game. It doesn’t take a leap of logic to see why a typical veteran of the game is going to want new and exciting content that pthey’ve never experienced rather than adjustments to existing features, graphical updates of existing decorations, animation improvements of existing models, and updates of existing POIs. I mean…not you of course…just other veterans who make the same exact complaints that you do and want the same sort of content updates that you want and get bored of each new alpha update a little faster than the one before exactly as you described. And the fact that new players without so much time sunk into the game are extremely pleased with the gameplay and are happily putting 1000’s of hours into A20 belies the claim that the game is actually empty. What’s wrong with that assessment for the general population of veteran players?

hmm...I'm not so sure about that but I'll see if I can find out. I think that the trader references your loot stage and not where you are at in your magazine hunting. Like I've said, under the new system, I can often craft better than what I can find or buy if I'm lucky and get lots of one magazine type.

If video gaming is such a luxury pastime in your area that only the truly rich can purchase a wide selection of games and the middle class has to pick and choose maybe a couple to three games a year to enjoy-- then your market is so small as to be completely insignificant to the marketing plans of these studios. They are not going to make decisions based off of your portion of the market. By the same token you should not take the anecdotal evidence of yourself and your local gamers and extrapolate to the overall population of those who purchase games. A lot of your analysis makes sense to me now that I know the context from which you are coming but....it is off.

That's because you already had many hours played before the update. We have reports of players already into the 1000s of hours and they started with A20. So even soulless A20 seems to still have the power to provide the type of fun you remember from when you began for many new players today. The point of the updates is not to add enough new content to keep veteran players enamored but to get the base game fleshed out and ready for release.

Yep. Long conversations that are not directly involving a developer get moved out. It has been this way for the last couple of years. The dev diary is for asking questions and engaging in discussion with the developers and not for debating whether the new changes are good or bad for the game with other random fans. If you have specific questions about the new changes, that post will remain. If a developer responds then that post will remain. If five random people speculate on the answers to your questions and then you respond to their speculations and so on--- all of that will get moved except for your initial questions. That way people who are asking questions are more likely to have their questions be seen by a developer rather than have their question get lost in a long debate. Also, there is nothing stopping developers and our QA guys from reading this overflow thread and they often do. There are plenty of both positive and negative feedback posts still remaining on the dev diary. But when someone counters one of those posts and then a conversation develops out of that, those things get moved within a day or two. If you feel strongly about something that needs some discussion then start a thread in General Discussions.

I'll let a developer reveal particulars about water when they feel they've made enough progress to talk about it. I don't want to make waves. But I can say generally that they want it to generate in the world correctly, behave well with other blocks and decorations, and to not destroy performance. You won't get another drop of information about it from me though.

Still in the works! That list I made was not comprehensive just a few things that stood out as I scrolled the reports. All sorts of things are being worked on including doors.

I don't follow you. It makes perfect sense thematically that you are finding bits and pieces from each magazine and filling out your knowledge as you find treasures of old world knowledge. And if it is in fact to slow people down why am I crafting more in A21 than I ever have in A20 and A19? Why am I able to craft things at a higher level than what I can find or buy more often in A21 than ever before? You think you can grok the system from the descriptions but you can't understand it until you actually play it. Okay, every 1-3 duplicate magazines you find you learn something new. It perfectly represents you finding a torn magazine with partial instructions but the next one you find completes the recipe and you gain a new craft. It feels very much like gaining the bits and fragments of knowledge and once you have pieced them together you gain that knowledge in full. The next few duplicate magazines have pieces of a better craft on another page that you find in part until you assemble them together. There is no assembling minigame but the process very much helps me imagine what is going on. It does not seem ridiculous or far-fetched in the least-- especially compared to how we gain knowledge for crafting in A17-A20 which could have no connection between the action and what is learned. This bit never bothered me but I know it bothered a lot of people and A21 definitely rectifies the thematic gaining of knowledge.

This is a huge point that people should realize about A20 and A19. I know it isn't just me and Gideon because we have had many threads about the fact that crafting has taken a back seat to looting and trading because you can so often find better gear than you can currently craft. From what I have played of A21 so far I am crafting a lot more because more often I can craft things at a higher level than I can find them or buy them. Now, I enjoy exploring and scavenging and clearing POIs. So it makes sense that I'm going to find mags and be able to craft more things at a higher level than what I'm finding. But if someone else doesn't and all they want to do is build and mine then their lootstage will still go up as they level from all the experience they get doing what they want to do and they'll surely find and be able to purchase equipment at the same levels they currently are getting in A20 and crafting will continue to take a back seat to the same degree it does currently just like in A20. So if you like to loot and you increase your looting in A21 you will notice that crafting is a more significant part of the game for you more than A20 and A19 If you hate to loot and avoid it then you will notice that crafting has about the same significance as A20 and A19 and you will rarely craft and mostly find and buy your gear. If you are one of those players who likes to do it all and you don't increase your looting you will still notice that you can often craft things at a higher tier than anything you've found or that the trader has available to buy. You'll still get lucky and find loot that is better than you what you can craft at times.

Just perusing the work log and keeping things general it looks like Bandits Bandit POIs Water Ragdoll physics Optimizations and fixes to various systems Dismemberment Localization Fixes

How do you know? lol This is the exact argument that people who loved Learn by Doing made about the current system of book series and perks. They accused TFP of artificially slowing the progression down with the silly new system that "nobody asked for". Now you say the current system is the best and the new changes are only to slow people down and is silly. As to the "silly" argument, it actually makes perfect sense that you can learn how to do things better by gleaning information that you find through scavenging. It may not sound like a fun prospect exploring POIs and opening boxes and cupboards and bookshelves etc but it is definitely a plausible mechanic to represent gaining knowledge. Lots of people complained about the current system making no sense that you could learn how to make a better pickaxe by spending points that were earned by killing zombies. They called that "silly". It never really bothered me but at least I can recognize that on the silly meter the current system is definitely sillier than the one we will be getting. They don't have to fight for loot any more than they did before. The magazines are ONLY for learning recipes. Does everyone have to be able to craft all recipes or can you split up the recipes and allow a friend to craft things for you? Seems like it could inspire selfishness fighting and a-holery if that is the type of people you play with...or...it could inspire planning and sharing and division of crafting. Basically, it will be the same thing that occurs now with teams that actually use teamwork when someone finds a weapon that they know someone else perked into. That person could hand over the weapon or hog it for their self. There is still a gradual power progression through the perks. You get better at using your tools and weapons through the perks and those goals can be achieved through all those myriad ways you mentioned. Knowledge of how to craft is now going to be handled through discovery of old world writings that you find, buy, or gain from quests. There is still plenty of variety of actions and goals you can take. As for time not spent looting being wasted time in the eyes of the game-- that is bull. The game's difficulty curve is not nearly so fast or unforgiving that you MUST optimize to the level that such a statement implies. You can loot less and learn recipes a bit slower and still successfully survive. You can farm and build with orange and yellow level tools and still successfully survive and keep up with the progression that the game world takes vs you. The idea that unless you spend every moment in the game looting or it is wasted time does not come from the game. It comes from within the minds of gamers who focus too much on optimizing beyond what is necessary to be successful. That is exactly why it is still in alpha. That is what the alpha designation is for and when you bought the game, the fact that it was Early Access was not hidden or unexplained. Besides, if you just started playing in Alpha 20 then you have never experienced any changes so why do you care about what changes happened before you ever played? Alpha 21 will be your very first time experiencing any kind of change. You can't believably complain about development fatigue when you just barely started and have yet to even go through a major alpha update for the very first time...haha I'm thinking "EA syndrome" is actually more like people who purchase a game in EA but either don't understand it or don't really believe it and start acting as though the game is a finished released product and react to development woes from an overly angry, worried, and/or entitled way. Let's say that you are right and this change is a huge mistake and needs to be walked back. Even if that is the case, they will not do it before it releases in A21 and they get feedback from the players. That's because we are in Early Access and our role is to play unfinished versions of the game and the developers can then make their decisions on whether something needs to be walked back or not. They walked back LBD after observing a couple years of gameplay and there was no sunk cost fallacy to be seen. They will walk back this decision as well if they deem it necessary but not before employing the change and observing. You seem to be coming from a perspective that this change is like a DLC for a finished game and TFP should not make the mistake of releasing it but the reality is that this is a development action for an unfinished game and we are going to test it (those of us who don't quit) and TFP is going to decide later whether this is the final version or if something else is. It's interesting that you encourage them to not be afraid to toss it while you seem to be afraid to even test it for yourself and your group and see what comes of it. I'd say to you, "Don't be afraid to test it to see what happens and how it affects your group for the good of the game. Rather than just quit playing at the prospect, try it out and give your feedback based on playtesting instead of speculating who in your group might hog all the magazines." I get it. Nobody wants to lose what they currently love and there is a real risk of that happening. I wouldn't agree that it is a foregone conclusion. I think you should try it first. No matter what, it is coming in A21 because this is an early access game in alpha development. Honestly, expecting a game in active development to just stay the same is an unrealistic take. It is always a risk to purchase a game before it is finalized because you can't know if you will end up enjoying the final version. Well this is what you should have led with, honestly. I'm glad you are posting your misgivings and doubts and you should continue to do so as long as you can admit that anyone who hasn't actually played with it is just speculating and could be wrong. There really is no chance of talking the devs out of developing their game for us to test and try at each new update. Once we've played with it we can certainly weigh in and there have been times the devs have agreed with the overwhelming sentiments of the player base who come here and chime in. Other times they have stuck to their guns regardless of the feedback. It is their game and we are along for the ride. We can give input and say what we don't like but we aren't in the director's chair.

I agree with that but such things are constraints that Microsoft imposes on itself in order to keep their brand mainstream. Lego doesn't tell them "Don't add gore to the game or we will pull out". Microsoft tells itself, "Let's keep the game family friendly in order to appeal to the largest segment of the market as we possibly can". They could add gore anyway and then Lego would have to decide to stay in or get out. I bet they stay in and add little gore bit pieces that snap right to the ends of limbs...

You are finding duplicates of the same magazine and not unique volumes in a series (like the book sets) in order to raise your skill in a particular category.

The development studio working on Minecraft is not limited by the deals that Microsoft makes with other companies to tie in with the Minecraft brand. Lego can't tell Microsoft that they can't make changes to their brand. It flows the other way actually. Microsoft dictates what Minecraft looks like and companies that license to use the Minecraft brand in their products have to make sure they conform to whatever the brand currently looks like. Microsoft could change the color and look of the Creepers tomorrow without asking permission of any company that is using the Minecraft brand. They wouldn't have to poll those companies to see if it was okay to make those changes. Rather, they could require those companies make changes to fit the new brand or lose their license to use Minecraft branding.

Scavenging 10/10 Crafting 8/10 Building 10/10 Singleplayer PvE 9/10 Multiplayer Cooperative PvE 10/10 Multiplayer PvP 5/10 Both. lol

The thing is that bandits should be able to path anywhere the player does so hopefully whether the zombies continue to be foiled by the 2-block ladder gap, bandits won't be and if you set up a ramp to leap to a ladder that only extends partway down, hopefully bandits will be able to navigate that as well even if zombies can't.

Who cares whether a game is moddable by design or by accident if the end result is that mods exist and are popular because they deliver an experiences that gamers like? The point is that Skyrim does have mods and regardless of how they came to be, players use them and extend their enjoyment of the game. The same is and will be true for 7 Days to Die and that is not a problem at all much less THE BIG PROBLEM... This is not only wrong in theory but wrong in practice and wrong in history. Minecraft most certainly is a game and the fact that it is also a brand has zero to do with the mods that are created and used for that game. Mods extend the life of Minecraft, the game, just as they do for Skyrim and do for this game. I see no connection between the brand "minecraft" and the mods that are created for the game. Sorry, but this line of reasoning is just way out in left field and doesn't even seem to relate at all to what we are talking about in terms of mods. 100% wrong. 7dtd 2 is not going to be their next game but they definitely do have plans for a direct sequel in the future and they have also stated that they designed this game to have modular systems that they could re-use and enhance for 7dtd-like spin off games. So while there has not been an announcement for a "7dtd but with different setting" spinoff, there is definitely a higher chance than zero chance. Doing such a follow-up game is within their business model. That's not to say that they are the type of developers that are just going to crank out a 7dtd-like game every year. They are a lot more ambitious than that and they are content to allow modders to overhaul 7dtd into spin-offs or alternate settings while they turn to something new for their next project.

Thanks for your honesty. Doesn't change my answer.

For you, sure. That is exactly the role of mods and especially overhaul mods. They change the experience, and anyone whose way of having fun meshes well with the changes, will feel like they are playing the best version of the game. We are very pleased that people are modding the game and others are enjoying those mods and getting an experience that matches up better with their desires. It is exactly why we have always encouraged modding. Since you love Darkness Falls so much I'm not really certain why you care whether the crafting system for the vanilla game goes under another iteration. You obviously don't play the vanilla version any longer so is it just that you don't like seeing others playing those changes as you watch from afar? As to your concerns, I can assure you that the perks are being changed to allow for the loss of crafting from their benefits. They will not remain the same as they have been but just minus the crafting recipes. As for the time and the journey of developing your character and learning the recipes, the pace of that process is going to appeal differently to everyone. Some people really enjoy a slow progression where you start out with primitive materials and build primitive bases making do with what you have until sometime later in the game the best materials are available and you have all the best tools. This change will be great for them because they will just play the game and over the course of game weeks will get better and better and be able to do more and more. Others like a faster pace and want to get started on their final mega-base as soon as possible and feel like they can't really get started until they have the best equipment and are max perked in the right categories. So, yes, it is going to take a lot of time and a lot of magazines to completely max out and if you are the type that doesn't like to start playing until after you've maxed yourself out, then either simply use the creative menu to get yourself all the mags you need to enjoy the game or play a mod that increases the pacing and method of getting kitted out quickly so you can start your mega base sooner. Since you love mods anyway and aren't shy about using them, whatever the vanilla game does or does not do really has very little effect on you. Peace. Play Darkness Falls and ignore the change.

In A21, when you generate a world, you can set one biome to 100% and the the others to 0% to achieve this.

But, you do what you can until/if the devs do something on their end.